Author Topic: Question about the Intro  (Read 29873 times)

Offline Haids1987

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2010, 03:03:56 PM »
Oh, haha, good advice.  Thank you.
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Offline crayauchtin

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2010, 03:24:34 PM »
I've known lots of twins throughout my life and I've noticed that, even the ones who don't get along very well, when the going gets tough they're there for each other in a way that is astonishing. They may be comatose, but it wouldn't surprise me if even in that state they reached out and held each other's hands in an unconscious effort to comfort each other (or perhaps to be comforted). People in comas have been known to try to hold hands with people before, y'know. It's pretty common. :P
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Offline Allronix

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2010, 03:26:14 PM »
I wasn't creeped out at all by it. Even as filthy as my brain can get, I didn't even factor in any kind of implications. Maybe part of it is that I'm a twin myself (though my sibling and I are identical, and therefore of the same gender).


Perhaps the family thought that physical contact could help the twins strengthen each other and break the spell? Not unheard of for twins to "get" one another in ways that can baffle anyone else, even their parents.  It's also logistically sound. One room, one set of guard dogs at the door and one place for Edgar and Cassima to act as a last line of defense.  We've already seen what Cassima's capable of. I suspect Edgar, if you push him, is quite capable of some of the nastier behavior you can get from a Fae.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 03:36:02 PM by Allronix »
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Offline tessspoon

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2010, 03:36:59 PM »
I wonder how much of that twin stuff applies when they don't grow up together? Is it innate and still strong even when separated like they were, or does it require a lifetime of close contact? For that matter, I wonder if Rosella ever felt like something was missing (more so than as would be expected of a sibling knowing that another sibling died at a young age).

Offline Allronix

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2010, 03:55:05 PM »
Maybe. http://science.howstuffworks.com/genetic-science/twin1.htm - God knows there's been real-life wierdness when it comes to that.

As for the KQ world? I would not be surprised if they had the feeling of "something missing." I could see Rosella, hope magnet she is, believing Alexander was alive and would come back even if/when Graham and Valanice could no longer do so.  It could also explain why she believed this slave boy in tattered clothing so easily. Likewise, it could also be why "Gwydion" could feel in his heart the Oracle's story was true, even if that mean his whole life was false.

Even if it wasn't there before, I could easily see it coming on strong during the time between 3 and 6.

Crap. Now, I have to factor that into the fanfic...   
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2010, 03:57:01 PM »
There might be some truth to it, but best I've read it could be a mix of coincidences, and probably alot of pseudoscience. Also its not twins per se but actually identical twins that are said to have that kind of connection. This is primarily because they are essentially clones of each other and would in theory have the same brain chemistry...

However, there is a difference between identical and fraternal twins. fraternal twins are basically the same as a brother and sister, or brother and brother, or sister and sister who aren't twins, in that they are genetically completley different individuals. This is what Rosella and Alex would be.

Identical twins on the other hand are genetically the same. Its the identical twins that studies have looked at as having that so called "mysterious bond". They have found that those seperated at birth, seem to develop similar habits and tastes. But again in general your habits are based on a mix of your environement, and not so much your "genetic makeup". Thus many studies have said its probably more coincidental, anecdotal, and fogged by pseudosicence.

Actually I read a journal article a couple of years back, that talked about two identical brothers, where one was homosexual, and the other was heterosexual. One was more masculine, and the other more feminine. One liked GI Joes, and the other liked Barbies... basically. Both were raised in the same family, both given equal love, education, etc. So in that case environment and upbringing didn't seem to be that big of a factor.

Seriously we really don't know much about what makes the brain tick, :p...

As for fraternal twins, I've read that they can have a strong connection but that's more to do with being together all the time, infact two siblings who grow up together but arent' actually twins could have the same potential to develop a deep understanding to each other. But fraternal twins growing apart, have little in common.

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http://science.howstuffworks.com/genetic-science/twin1.htm
Though understand that example is of identical twins, basically clones from a single egg and a single s****. (identical twins are always two males, or two females) as in biological identical. So it wouldn't actually apply in the case of Alexander and Rosella. If we were talking real world...

fraternal twins on the other hand are essentially the same as having one baby born each year :p... and having them grow up together. They are biologically different.

Although its a common misconception that all twins are created equally, when its really just identical twins that are "equal"... :p...
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 04:12:28 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline tessspoon

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2010, 04:18:00 PM »
True, really should have thought about that before I posted...

Never heard them called paternal vs. maternal twins before, but it makes sense.

Offline Allronix

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2010, 04:23:07 PM »
I know all too well. Remember, I am one.

Is there an awful lot of BS involved when it comes to twins and the like? Yes. spades. For example,  my sister studied English and psychology. She's trying to become a school librarian. I did all my coursework in writing and computers. I'm in tech support. She's married, I'm not. We also go out of our way to try and look different.

On the flip side, there are just as many similarities. It's a great source of amusement to my brother in law.

Still, if there's a place where sympathetic magic like that would actually work, it's in that realm.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2010, 05:21:52 PM »
Well, we are also shown and told in previous king's quests that personality wise the "twins" aren't really all that similar either.

Alexander is more like his father, Rosella is more like her mother.

Alexander is something of a magician, Rosella doesn't seem to be.

Alexander is a bit shy to some degree.  Rosella is strong-willed and a bit selfish.

I'm probably forgetting some of the differences though.... :p
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 05:26:20 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Allronix

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2010, 05:44:21 PM »
Well, we are also shown and told in previous king's quests that personality wise the "twins" aren't really all that similar either.

Alexander is more like his father, Rosella is more like her mother.

I'd argue it's the other way around.  ;D  KQ7's intro showed that Rose and Val really had trouble relating to each other, wheras KQ6 showed that Valanice and Alexander seemed to understand each other pretty well.

Graham's stubborn, adventurous, got something of an argumentative and impulsive streak and would rather act than research. In the expanded universe material, he also stubbornly refused to be set up with any princesses circling him like so many sharks, instead choosing a (relatively) minor noblewoman from Kolyma. Age has only mellowed him somewhat. Rosella? Impulsive, adventurous, a bit selfish, stubborn on most anything...save matters of the heart. She turned Edgar down at first, and consented to a courtship in 7.

Alexander is more reserved (some of it is leftover survival mechanism, some of it inclination), a scholar by choice (Valanice is also inclined to it, if the Companion is an indication), and is a lot less impulsive than Rosella is. The only time he really starts acting before he thinks is is Cassima's involved. And then? Like his mom, he had the whole "love at first sight" hit him like a bull on speed.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2010, 05:53:12 PM »
Technically Graham suffered the love at first sight bug as well :p... Through the mirror...

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In the expanded universe material

Do you mean the manual or the companion? Because I'd argue that the manual was intended as part of the complete package... :p. Actually I think its also mentioned in the KQ2 introduction video, about how he has turned down quite a few women and is looking for his one heart's desire.

"KQ2 Introduction: He's searched high and low for the right maiden but remains alone".

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She turned Edgar down at first,
She had to turn him down, as the narrator says, it was either her father or edgar. She nearly jumped into it. "Hunk of man flesh" however it described it, but knew her father came first. Actually rosella isn't as selfish in KQ4 as she was in KQ7. Just look at her diaologue between her and the seven dwarves, and her willingness to help everyone.

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instead choosing a (relatively) minor noblewoman from Kolyma
Hmm, I think it was established she's the daughter of the prince of Kolyma? That's more than minor isn't it?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 05:58:26 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline tessspoon

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2010, 05:57:56 PM »
I'd argue it's the other way around.
That's how the Omnipedia makes it sound. "Where Rosella takes after her more adventurous and outspoken father, Alexander's quieter and more reserved personality reflects both Valanice's influence..."

Offline Baggins

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2010, 05:59:36 PM »
I don't like that personality bit personally, I never added, it and I think I put a "fact" check on it a long time ago... It needs more citations. alot of this seems to be mostly opinions. I think both can be argued, LOL. They share bits of both their parents imo.

Graham is actually pretty mellow and quiet guy in KQ5 :p... for someone who has lost his family :p...

You could apply any personality for him for KQ1 and KQ2, considering the games don't give him much personality.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 06:01:21 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Haids1987

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2010, 06:00:45 PM »
Quote
instead choosing a (relatively) minor noblewoman from Kolyma
Hmm, I think it was established she's the daughter of the prince of Kolyma? That's more than minor isn't it?
She's the daughter of a prince and a miller's daughter or something, right?  Maybe the lowborn mother lowered her status a little?
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2010, 06:03:02 PM »
That would be going into the realms of pure speculation I think. Who knows....

its basically taken from rumplestiltskin reference isn't it?

In KQ7 she actually acts like she's cock of the rock :p...

Graham is actually a minor noble, himself. Son of a minor knight.

In get the impression in KQ7, and in the novels that the Valanice might actually be higher born. There's this whole exchange in Kingdom of Sorrow over how he won't wear proper clothes of a noble, and Valanice has to keep on scolding him, and showing him proper manners.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 06:06:42 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Haids1987

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2010, 06:04:22 PM »
its basically taken from rumplestiltskin reference isn't it?
Huh?
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2010, 06:05:24 PM »
Wasn't the miller's daughter the queen in rumplestiltskin, the one that had to guess Rumpy's name to keep her child?
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Haids1987

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2010, 06:07:13 PM »
Oh yeah!  I forgot about that.  ;D  But I was referencing the Companion, it says something about Valanice being the daughter of a prince and a miller's daughter. :yes:
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2010, 06:08:08 PM »
Ya Cedric and Coignice. But ya I think her status is actually higher than Grahams. He didn't settle for less.

Actually the list of "maidens of the kingdom" that came before him during Gerwains party included farmer's daughters I think, LOL So he could have married lower than his status.

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The invitations were sent out, and the whole kingdom turned out for the celebration. From every corner of Daventry the maidens came. Short and tall, slender and plump, fair and dark, pretty and plain. There were maidens from all stations of life, from Dukes' and earls' daughters to the village goose girl and the scullery maid from the castle kitchens. They all had but one thing in common: They greatly admired the handsome King, and were eager to catch his eye. Word had spread that the King was looking for a bride, and they were all thrilled at the prospect of marrying the charming Graham.

For two days the celebration wore on, and though he tried to be cheerful, Graham gradually became somber. None of the maidens he had met quickened his pulse. One maid squinted, another triped over everything in sight. Another was too coy, and the one after her giggled constantly. They all had some fault, however small. It was with great relief that Graham saw his guests ride away at then end of the celebration. He retired to his room to reflect gloomily.

"My kingdom is home to hundreds of lovely maidens," he mourned. "Why is there not one among them who touches my heart and my dreams."

I don't think status was something that factored into it if he was taking look at skullery maids and goose girls...
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 06:11:57 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Haids1987

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Re: Question about the Intro
« Reply #79 on: July 24, 2010, 06:12:44 PM »
Ya Cedric and Coignice. But ya I think her status is actually higher than Grahams.

Is it?  Graham is the king of all of Daventry, Valanice only has royalty on one side.  *Shrugs*  I'm an American, we don't have a monarchy here.  I guess that's why I'm ignorant in the ways of royalty status!
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