Old school 3D vs Modern

[atec123]

I'm all about remaking MOE... but I would prefer to see it in 3D, with better graphics than the original if possible.  VGA would be cool too but only secondary in my preference.

As far as the TSL remake goes, I think that this guy is going to go all the way.  Some of you out there didn't think he was serious about making it but I get the impression that he is, and not just because he feels the need bash TSL.  Instead, I think it is also because he wants to add some of his own elements that he felt were lacking in TSL.  As far as how Activision will react to this, I am not too sure on that.  He did make a point that big corporations such as Activision don't care so much about anonymous remakes as they do for someone seeking publicity on their IP.  I don't know how true that is as I am not a developer who does remakes in any way, shape, or form.  I also agree with Weldon that this will give TSL even more publicity, even if the author is shedding negative light on the original creation.

Only time will tell.

You see... DMD wants an old skool 3d version.  I think that would be cool, but I would want either VGA or modern 3d.  though I want it remade no matter what.

got any skills?  I might want to start attempting to get a storyboard and stuff together.  DMD wanted to help too.  thing is neither of us can program or make good 3d graphics.  and those things are at least somewhat important.

[MusicallyInspired]

Old-school 3D is pretty ugly. I can't stand to look at it nowadays.

[kindofdoon]

With a few exceptions (Half Life), I agree. Old 3D doesn't age nearly as well as classic 2D.

[atec123]

With a few exceptions (Half Life), I agree. Old 3D doesn't age nearly as well as classic 2D.

i sortof agree.

if done right it can look good, but if done right, and that is not easy, 2d KQ style is amazingly beautiful.

[TheReturnofDMD]

Old-school 3D is pretty ugly. I can't stand to look at it nowadays.

For kids who grew up with it in games like Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot, Soul Reaver, etc, it can be pretty nostalgic though, along the same lines that the old KQ VGA graphics (which to most modern gamers would look crappy) inspire nostalgia in KQ gamers.

I've grown up a lot of feelings of nostalgia and love for KQ8. I used to think it was crap, now it's actually one of my favorite KQ games.

[kindofdoon]

Crash Bandicoot didn't look that bad compared to some earlier 3D games.

Not that graphics matter that much to me, I'm just saying.

[tessspoon]

I remember playing Crash Bandicoot when I got my Playstation for Christmas! Wow, that had to have been over 10 years ago.

[MusicallyInspired]

You're right, Half-Life didn't look that bad. It was one of the few that didn't, though.

And regarding young kids feeling nostalgic, I guess that's a good point. I'm a little older and I remember the switch from amazing 2D to crappy 3D and I did not think it was an improvement at all at the time. Dark Forces 2 didn't look anywhere near as good as Dark Forces 1 to me, for instance. It felt very clunky and looked positively awful.

[wilco64256]

I never even finished Dark Forces 2 because of that.  Unfortunate, because I really enjoyed the first one.

[MusicallyInspired]

I mulled through it. The FMV cutscenes makes it a little easier. The Mysteries of the Sith expansion has a slightly advanced lighting engine which makes it look a little moodier, but it's the same horrible poly models. And no FMV cutscenes, unfortunately.

[Baggins]

Just saying as far as polygonal technology, KQ 8 looks better than Dark Forces II in quality. It had probably about 2-3 times the amount of polygons in a single model. Connor is pretty well rounded in comparison to the model used for Kyle Katarn as an example.

[Enchantermon]

I'm a little older and I remember the switch from amazing 2D to crappy 3D and I did not think it was an improvement at all at the time.

This. I don't remember the switch, but a few years ago in school, I had a roommate who had Tomba! and Tomba! 2 on the Playstation. The first was a 2D platformer which looked great. The second was a 3D platformer which looked like crap. Interesting, since Half-Life was released around the same time and it looked incredible.

[KatieHal]

This was carrying on long enough in another direction that it seemed appropriate to split it off

[Enchantermon]

Wow. I had that other thread open and when I refreshed the page and all those posts disappeared I freaked out for a second.

[Baggins]

Not sure what "old school 3d vs Modern" is. 3-d was something that evolved over time. Some companies were better at it than others :p... You can find alot of "intermediate stages" into "modern" era. Each year (or at least every two years) offered improvements.

Seriously though if you were looking at 360/PS3 era, the original XBOX and PS2 look like older style 3-d :p, just not Quake or Jedi Knight style 3-d...

King's Quest 8 was closer to N64 style 3-d if not slightly better with some of the special effects and improved polygon counts (if you were running the game with 3DFX).

[KatieHal]

It's how people were referring to the styles of 3D, so it's what I used for the subject line.

[atec123]

KQ8 graphics to me are really pretty crappy compared to like... mario 64.

blurry as hell, and not as many polygons so stuff is shaped all weirdly.

[Baggins]

Alot of stuff in mario 64 were 2-d sprites attached to a few 3-d elements... or blocks with a face painted on them... Actually most of the enemeis were pretty simple, basic geometrical shapes (and 2-d spheres). Mario is actually rather simple, made up of a series of blocks (see arms for example)... There was actually very little "texture mapping".



Actually if you compare just mario to connor, connor actually still had a higher polygon count on his body, better texture mapping, thus his arms for example actually appear less blocky and natural, :p... KQ8 was at least a generation or two above Mario 64. Actually KQ 8 had some pretty advanced morphing effects and animation well, for example check out the magic spell cast by the Wizard to create the magic ring, or how the Henchmen appear on screen. Some that was ahead of its time.



Link in Ocarina in Time is closer to the amount of polygons and technlogy used in KQ8, although he didn't particularly have alot of texture maping either. But at least KQ 8 is closer to that genre, and Link has better hands/hair .

[atec123]

You know what I think it is.....mario is easier on the eyes because it is so much less realistic looking.  it looks really animated so all that low polygon and lack of textures looks good.  but KQ8 on the other hand just looks really low tech.... in a bad way.

[Centaur444]

Part of this has to do with the how the brain rejects pseudo-realism or graphics that are attempting to be realistic but the brain realizes that something is wrong and rejects it.  This contributed to the failure of the pseudo-realistic Polar Express movie with Tom Hanks as compared to The Incredibles which was extremely popular.

For me, cartoony 3-d or just plain 2d is usually the best way to go, especially for adventure games.  If you go 3d, cartoony 3d is the way to go, the brain doesn't reject it, and you can enjoy the game.

The only way that NON-cartoony 3d works for anything is if it approaches absolute perfection.  Modern movies and some games are starting to come close.  But for the most part, it's just not worth it and is not even possible without massive corporate budgets.