Plot conflict

[wilco64256]

Well that's just your interpretation and as always you're welcome to create your own games based on how you interpret the earlier stories.  This one's ours and we're not changing the direction we've gone with the story and re-writing an entire script just to make it match what you think it should be.  The vision for this game is ours and we're sticking with it.

[Cez]

But a whole lot of the events and motivations, etc, from the original KQ2 were certainly changed.

Yes, definitely--hence calling it an alternate retelling.  That wasn't my point--my point was that all the changes to the plotline of the KQ series were totally self-contained within the KQ2 storyline.  The changes to the plot do NOT contradict anything else within the rest of the series.

(Posted on: September 20, 2010, 12:06:38 AM)

Well, you can then consider TSL an alternate retelling of KQ. The fact that KQ2+ retold only the story of KQ2 doesn't make it any different to what we are doing, in the end. We are just taking the whole of KQ as opposed to just only KQ2.

Again, we never said we were the official KQ. And that's why our title suits the game best. "The Silver Lining" Inspired by the King's Quest series.

[Lambonius]

Well, see, this is the main reason why retcon storylines that attempt to tie together all characters and plot elements across an entire established series are inevitably the stuff of fan fiction (Star Wars prequels being the one major mainstream exception I can think of, and look how THOSE were received.  )  Personally, I don't think these types of stories are ever a good idea because no matter what, they ALWAYS end up sounding contrived and forced, and are nearly impossible to pull off without retconning.  I've yet to see this type of thing done well in any series ever.

Note:  The above response was aimed at ReturnofDMD.

[Cez]

and exactly what are we? A game by fans for fans?

That fits the "fan fiction" angle a lot, doesn't it?

[wilco64256]

Well, see, this is the main reason why retcon storylines that attempt to tie together all characters and plot elements across an entire established series are inevitably the stuff of fan fiction (Star Wars prequels being the one major mainstream exception I can think of, and look how THOSE were received.  )  Personally, I don't think these types of stories are ever a good idea because no matter what, they ALWAYS end up sounding contrived and forced, and are nearly impossible to pull off without retconning.  I've yet to see this type of thing done well in any series ever.

And it remains to be seen just how much of the series we're actually trying to tie together and how we're doing so.  Could it ever be a totally perfect tie-together?  Absolutely not, because that's just plain impossible.  You could never take a series that barely connected one game to another initially and expect to cleanly fit the whole of everything together nice and neat.  But we still have 3 episodes to go and we'll see how people feel about the story when it's actually done, rather than less than halfway into it.

[Lambonius]

and exactly what are we? A game by fans for fans?

That fits the "fan fiction" angle a lot, doesn't it?

Oh I know--I wrote that before you typed your post.    Hence my above edit.  I think you guys are justified in doing TSL however you want.  It's your game.  I was making the comment more as a way of saying "hey, it's fan fiction--they're doing what they want, and that's fine, regardless of whether it fits with what I would have done.  So try not to take it so seriously."

[TheReturnofDMD]

and exactly what are we? A game by fans for fans?

That fits the "fan fiction" angle a lot, doesn't it?

Oh I know--I wrote that before you typed your post.    Hence my above edit.  I think you guys are justified in doing TSL however you want.  It's your game.  I was making the comment more as a way of saying "hey, it's fan fiction--they're doing what they want, and that's fine, regardless of whether it fits with what I would have done.  So try not to take it so seriously."

Fan fiction is one thing and is basically an open sandbox. Wanting to become THE KQ is another, and if their ideas in fan fiction retcon the originals, why should I not worry that they won't do more retconning IF (and as I've been told, it's a big IF, but as long as it is an IF and a possibility, I will question it) they owned the rights.
Ret-conning stories in a work of fan fiction is one thing...Wanting to justify buying the actual franchise by creating a fan sequel which retcons the others is quite another.

That is my issue here.
Fan fiction is an open sandbox and you can do whatever ridiculous ideas you want. The King's Quest name is not and deserves more than that.

So as long as that idea is an IF, I will say, "Why?" You can say If, I shall ask you why.

[wilco64256]

And that's the only problem here - some people taking this project FAR too seriously.

[TheReturnofDMD]

And that's the only problem here - some people taking this project FAR too seriously.

When you start talking about buying the rights seriously, than the ballgame becomes different than just a little work of fan fiction. Than the question of intentions of what will be done with these beloved games becomes a question.
You guys opened the hypothetical idea (and possible business plan?) of buying the King's Quest IP. Not me.

And as I learn more of your intentions just with this game, of retconning the originals, that idea only troubles me more. Put it out of the realm of possibility, or give me some assurance you guys don't in any way ret-con the series further whether in an ''official sequel'' or in any way, and I'll shut up.

And yes, people take this seriously because this is a beloved series. It's the same reason why Lord of the Ring fans why they think Boorman's aborted Lord of the Ring idea was horrible and hate it, because it totally twisted and retconned the original story.

[scintilla77]

Sorry for butting in again, but POS, I honestly hope you don't plan on buying the IPs if you're going to make more games that change the original games' backstories as much as TSL is doing. I mean, TSL is a great fangame, but it's really starting to twist the stories of the official games that I've loved for so long, and I'm not sure I like where the story is going. I'm honestly a little nervous when i think what would happen to the stories of the other Sierra games I love if sequels to them were made with the same kind of story as TSL.

[Cez]

IF we had the rights, in the first place we'd try to get the original designers involved.

2nd, we wouldn't try to write a story to please the fans, and therefore have all the past returning so that they could enjoy all the cameos, etc. It would probably be an isolated story, regardless of the tone. But this is a game by fans for fans with the idea of giving closure to the KQ story, so it's obvious that what we were trying to do was pull all the past into this to tie up lose ends. And while we were doing that, we wrote a story to connect it all.

But I would never do that if I was doing a commercial game. That's the worse way to alienate newcomers: Throw in their laps a bunch of stuff that they don't care about or have no knowledge of. I'd probably not even put a number to the game because you don't want to give the impression that there's baggage before it. You want to market it as a new thing, give it a fresh reboot, and write an isolated story-- one that you can continue if successful, but that has little to do with the past efforts, aside from revolving around the Daventry Family.

[Lambonius]

IF we had the rights, in the first place we'd try to get the original designers involved.

Even Josh Mandel?  You wouldn't fire them if they disagreed with you?   

[TheReturnofDMD]

IF we had the rights, in the first place we'd try to get the original designers involved.

2nd, we wouldn't try to write a story to please the fans, and therefore have all the past returning so that they could enjoy all the cameos, etc. It would probably be an isolated story, regardless of the tone. But this is a game by fans for fans with the idea of giving closure to the KQ story, so it's obvious that what we were trying to do was pull all the past into this to tie up lose ends. And while we were doing that, we wrote a story to connect it all.

But I would never do that if I was doing a commercial game. That's the worse way to alienate newcomers: Throw in their laps a bunch of stuff that they don't care about or have no knowledge of. I'd probably not even put a number to the game because you don't want to give the impression that there's baggage before it. You want to market it as a new thing, give it a fresh reboot, and write an isolated story-- one that you can continue if successful, but that has little to do with the past efforts, aside from revolving around the Daventry Family.

We already had a game like your hypothetical idea--a KQ without a number which was an isolated story from the others and was not numbered so as not to alienate new fans--It was a fresh reboot if you will.

They called it King's Quest: Mask of Eternity.

[Lambonius]

We already had a game like your hypothetical idea--a KQ without a number which was an isolated story from the others and didn't revolve around the Royal Family of Daventry and was not numbered so as not to alienate new fans--It was a fresh reboot if you will.

They called it King's Quest: Mask of Eternity.

To be fair, Cez said such a game WOULD revolve around the Royal Family.

[wilco64256]

We've never given you any reason to think that we ever WOULD overhaul any of the originals and change their current plots in any way - you came up with that idea totally on your own and seem deliberately determined to hijack any thread  you can into an argument about what YOU think WE would do if we held the rights to the series.  You seem to be deliberately forgetting that the series is beloved to us too, everybody on this team has loved this series for most of their lives and we have no intention of burning the whole thing to the ground and rebuilding from scratch - anybody who says that is just paranoid and making ridiculous claims.

Now I'm sick of you trying to paint us in some kind of horrible light for stating that we - AS FANS - would love it if we ever had the opportunity to do more with the series than take 8 years to make a piece of fan fiction.  It's ridiculous that you do so every chance you get and extremely disrespectful to our whole team.  If that scenario ever becomes a reality then we'll happily discuss it at that time, but until then leave it alone.  It's annoying and brings nothing positive to the table in any way.

[TheReturnofDMD]

We already had a game like your hypothetical idea--a KQ without a number which was an isolated story from the others and didn't revolve around the Royal Family of Daventry and was not numbered so as not to alienate new fans--It was a fresh reboot if you will.

They called it King's Quest: Mask of Eternity.

To be fair, Cez said such a game WOULD revolve around the Royal Family.

True and I edited my post, but does the KQ series NEED a reboot?



(Posted on: September 20, 2010, 12:44:33 AM)

We've never given you any reason to think that we ever WOULD overhaul any of the originals and change their current plots in any way - you came up with that idea totally on your own and seem deliberately determined to hijack any thread  you can into an argument about what YOU think WE would do if we held the rights to the series.  You seem to be deliberately forgetting that the series is beloved to us too, everybody on this team has loved this series for most of their lives and we have no intention of burning the whole thing to the ground and rebuilding from scratch - anybody who says that is just paranoid and making ridiculous claims.

Now I'm sick of you trying to paint us in some kind of horrible light for stating that we - AS FANS - would love it if we ever had the opportunity to do more with the series than take 8 years to make a piece of fan fiction.  It's ridiculous that you do so every chance you get and extremely disrespectful to our whole team.  If that scenario ever becomes a reality then we'll happily discuss it at that time, but until then leave it alone.  It's annoying and brings nothing positive to the table in any way.

Sorry, but I'm not waiting until it's a reality to complain, because then it's too late.
The fan fiction you wrote which does overhaul some pretty nice sized plot elements of the original stories is what gives me reason to question your intent as to a possible commercial game. You guys coming out and repeatedly saying in a bunch of different interviews and even in places that the idea of you buying the rights is seriously being considered is what gives rise to my worries.

To act as if I pulled these ideas, or the fact that you guys have already begun to bend the past so to speak with TSL from the air is a deflection from my points.

And Cesar said in his idea of a commercial game might essentially be a reboot and a completely isolated story, featuring (possibly?) only the original characters. That gives rise to further concern.

[Cez]

IF we had the rights, in the first place we'd try to get the original designers involved.

Even Josh Mandel?  You wouldn't fire them if they disagreed with you?

I would have agreed with Josh Mandel back then if we were trying to reboot the series, and I agree with him now that calling this game something else than King's Quest IX was the best thing that we could have ever done. He said he wouldn't mind any of the changes if we had only not decided to call it "King's Quest IX". And he was right.

[Cez]

We already had a game like your hypothetical idea--a KQ without a number which was an isolated story from the others and didn't revolve around the Royal Family of Daventry and was not numbered so as not to alienate new fans--It was a fresh reboot if you will.

They called it King's Quest: Mask of Eternity.

To be fair, Cez said such a game WOULD revolve around the Royal Family.

True and I edited my post, but does the KQ series NEED a reboot?



(Posted on: September 20, 2010, 12:44:33 AM)

We've never given you any reason to think that we ever WOULD overhaul any of the originals and change their current plots in any way - you came up with that idea totally on your own and seem deliberately determined to hijack any thread  you can into an argument about what YOU think WE would do if we held the rights to the series.  You seem to be deliberately forgetting that the series is beloved to us too, everybody on this team has loved this series for most of their lives and we have no intention of burning the whole thing to the ground and rebuilding from scratch - anybody who says that is just paranoid and making ridiculous claims.

Now I'm sick of you trying to paint us in some kind of horrible light for stating that we - AS FANS - would love it if we ever had the opportunity to do more with the series than take 8 years to make a piece of fan fiction.  It's ridiculous that you do so every chance you get and extremely disrespectful to our whole team.  If that scenario ever becomes a reality then we'll happily discuss it at that time, but until then leave it alone.  It's annoying and brings nothing positive to the table in any way.

Sorry, but I'm not waiting until it's a reality to complain, because then it's too late.
The fan fiction you wrote which does overhaul some pretty nice sized plot elements of the original stories is what gives me reason to question your intent as to a possible commercial game. You guys coming out and repeatedly saying in a bunch of different interviews and even in places that the idea of you buying the rights is seriously being considered is what gives rise to my worries.

To act as if I pulled these ideas, or the fact that you guys have already begun to bend the past so to speak with TSL from the air is a deflection from my points.

And Cesar said in his idea of a commercial game might essentially be a reboot and a completely isolated story, featuring (possibly?) only the original characters. That gives rise to further concern.

I really don't know why you keep banging on the same drum. What you say is not going to change our perspective. That is down to Activision, so maybe you should write them instead of writing us.

[Lambonius]

IF we had the rights, in the first place we'd try to get the original designers involved.

Even Josh Mandel?  You wouldn't fire them if they disagreed with you?

I would have agreed with Josh Mandel back then if we were trying to reboot the series, and I agree with him now that calling this game something else than King's Quest IX was the best thing that we could have ever done. He said he wouldn't mind any of the changes if we had only not decided to call it "King's Quest IX". And he was right.

Fair enough.    I am curious though how you would handle working with the original developers.  Would you feel inclined to let them take the reigns on the creative story process, conceivably making a game that was tonally much closer to the originals than your vision for TSL?  From your responses on this board and in other conversations we've had, it's clear that you're very protective of your own story ideas and writing.  Not trying to insult, just an honest question.

[wilco64256]

DMD the problem is that you're trying to create an argument where there isn't one.  We would NEVER under any circumstances come out with a totally new and rewritten King's Quest 1 and claim that it totally completely replaces the original and is now the only "official" King's Quest 1 in the series.  Such a move would alienate every single fan that we have and would be the dumbest thing on the planet, so you seriously need to relax and stop claiming that we're going to do that.  Because we're not, and the next time you claim that we are in this forum that post will be immediately modded.  You're welcome to participate here and be respectful, but it is NOT ok for you to take every chance you get to try and convince people that we're out to destroy everything that makes King's Quest great.