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Plot conflict

Started by KQ5Fan, September 18, 2010, 11:51:12 PM

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KatieHal

[spoiler]He stole her 'immortal breath' so she would die and come to the Underworld.

As for the rest, you have to remember it's a myth. The story of Persephone's abduction, in the real world, is just a myth to explain why the seasons change. It's not actually true. And while many myths are true in the world of King's Quest, they still have their own myths that are nothing more than that as well. This is one of them. [/spoiler]

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

TheReturnofDMD

[spoiler]The fact that Mordack and Manny don't want to kill the Royal Family or at the very least Alexander sounds a bit silly, and is basically an attempt to rewrite the original series, which I find HIGHLY disrespectful. The whole impetus for Alex running away in KQ3 is that he's going to be killed. If Mordack didn't intend to kill the Royal Family, why have that cut scene? Why have him trying to kill Graham? This whole they didn't want to kill them business rewrites the original stories, for one, and makes their plots a bit meaningless. I don't see why a fan sequel also has to rewrite the works it's based on in the progress. That's what I mean when I talk negatively about it---You're re-writing the originals as well instead of just founding your original story on them, and I find that incredibly disrespectful.[/spoiler]

KatieHal

We are putting our own spin on things, yes, but we are also keeping it close to what happened in the games. If it's not to your liking, that's fine, but the story isn't going to change from what it is. It's certainly not meant to be disrespectful, but if you see it that way, I don't think anything I say will convince you otherwise.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

wilco64256

But as the series played out nobody in the royal family actually was killed were they?  The family member deaths always resulted in games ending, never in a continuation of the plot.  So the original series did intend for the entire family to survive this long, which doesn't conflict with our story at all.

And AGDI also made MAJOR modifications to the story of earlier games which worked out very well for the projects they did in my opinion.
Weldon Hathaway

scintilla77

Quote from: wilco64256 on September 19, 2010, 09:17:10 PM
Well there certainly is a big difference between

[spoiler]having a mate and a prisoner.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]From the story in TSL:
"Eventually, she and the Lord of the Dead reached an agreement that for six months of the year, Persephone would be his queen, and during the other six months, she would return to the world of the living."
"but the nightshade flower only grows when Persephone is with its Lord, her husband."

Those lines seem to make it pretty clear that in TSL the Lord of the Dead does have a "mate", even if she is an unwilling and imprisoned one.  :-\[/spoiler]

Lambonius

#45
Quote from: wilco64256 on September 19, 2010, 09:51:12 PM

And AGDI also made MAJOR modifications to the story of earlier games which worked out very well for the projects they did in my opinion.

To be fair, there's a huge difference in that AGDI made no attempts to tie their KQ2+ into the rest of the series.  It was always conceived of and meant as a side-story "alternate" version of KQ2.  Also, all of the changes were self-contained within the story of that individual game--they didn't retcon any of the story of KQ1 in order to tell their version of KQ2.

wilco64256

Quote from: Lambonius on September 19, 2010, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: wilco64256 on September 19, 2010, 09:51:12 PM

And AGDI also made MAJOR modifications to the story of earlier games which worked out very well for the projects they did in my opinion.

To be fair, there's a huge difference in that AGDI made no attempts to tie their KQ2+ into the rest of the series.  It was always conceived of and meant as a side-story "alternate" version of KQ2.  

No attempts?  There seem to be pretty clear references to both KQ3 and MoE during KQ2+.
Weldon Hathaway

KatieHal

Scintilla--I think my explanation above is the best I can offer you. It's a myth--myths aren't always fact. Actually, they're usually entirely NOT fact, just stories people came up with to explain a phenomenon in the real word. Even in the world KQ, there are myths that aren't true, even if some are.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Lambonius

No, you misunderstand me.  Certainly there were references to later games in the series (specifically in those two flash-forward moments), but on a whole, the purpose of AGDI's KQ2+ is as an alternate story.  More to the point though, none of the events or story/character motivations of KQ1 were changed in order to make KQ2+ make sense.

KatieHal

But a whole lot of the events and motivations, etc, from the original KQ2 were certainly changed.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

wilco64256

Quote from: Lambonius on September 19, 2010, 10:01:56 PM
No, you misunderstand me.  Certainly there were references to later games in the series (specifically in those two flash-forward moments), but on a whole, the purpose of AGDI's KQ2+ is as an alternate story.  More to the point though, none of the events or story/character motivations of KQ1 were changed in order to make KQ2+ make sense.

Probably because the basis of KQ2+ had the same basis as the original KQ2 so there was no need for that.  We don't have an official continuation of the series that we're doing an alternate version of, so we have to come up with something original.  We need to have a reason for this game to be taking place and this is what we're going with.  It's not like we're totally ignoring the other games or doing the impossible like adding another kid who's older than Alex and Rosella to support our storyline or anything like that - the basis for our story is absolutely given in earlier games and we just expanded on what was already there to give more purpose to our story.
Weldon Hathaway

Lambonius

Quote from: KatieHal on September 19, 2010, 10:03:03 PM
But a whole lot of the events and motivations, etc, from the original KQ2 were certainly changed.


Yes, definitely--hence calling it an alternate retelling.  That wasn't my point--my point was that all the changes to the plotline of the KQ series were totally self-contained within the KQ2 storyline.  The changes to the plot do NOT contradict anything else within the rest of the series.

(Posted on: September 20, 2010, 12:06:38 AM)


Quote from: wilco64256 on September 19, 2010, 10:05:24 PM
the basis for our story is absolutely given in earlier games and we just expanded on what was already there to give more purpose to our story.

That's fine, but there's a difference between expanding on the material of the earlier games and contradicting that material.  :)

TheReturnofDMD

#52
[spoiler]This brings back a big point of mine, and my biggest worry:
If you guys get the rights, how do I know you aren't going to re-write or retcorn the series completely? This could be as small as more retcons of the originals in future games, or as large as complete re-writes of the originals, which would then be canon and not the originals. It's obvious you guys have problems with the way the originals played out.[/spoiler]

kindofdoon

No one can rewrite the classics, and no one intends to. Phoenix Online is just interpreting the KQ mythos in their own way.

Daniel Dichter, Production/PR
daniel.dichter@postudios.com

KatieHal

LOL, Connor MacLyrr: Graham's secret son?? Dun dun duh! XD

Well, our game takes a different view on a number of things. I'm fairly certain we've said that before, though, so I don't really know what it is you want to hear.

DMD, I'm seriously *not* getting into this debate again. I don't know why you are so focused on that--it's a big, huge IF and that's all. You don't like our story, that's fine, but you've made it clear, we've made it clear it's not changing, so I cannot see the point into talking in circles about this yet again.

Yes, doon--that is a good way to put what I'm trying to say.

In any case, it's past my bed time, so have a good night or a good day wherever you are, folks.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

wilco64256

And what problems would those be?  That Graham became King of Daventry?  That Alexander escaped and lived?  That Rosella saved her father?  The Graham rescued his family and Cassima?  etc. etc. etc.

I assure you we're all perfectly happy with how the other games in the series played out.  If we ever did any remakes of any of them I can guarantee you Graham would still become King of Daventry, Alexander would still escape, Rosella would still save her father, etc. etc. etc.

Not sure what you think we disagree with from the originals here...
Weldon Hathaway

TheReturnofDMD

Quote from: kindofdoon on September 19, 2010, 10:09:36 PM
No one can rewrite the classics, and no one intends to. Phoenix Online is just interpreting the KQ mythos in their own way.

[spoiler]You wouldn't say that re-writing or, let's say, re-defining the motivations of certain characters in the original series, and indeed the tone of entire sequences or plotlines in the originals, amounts to a re-write? Let's say they had the rights and TSL was canon, this ''interpretation'' of the originals, wherein Manny and Mordack had no intentions to kill Alex and the Royal Family, would be canon, and the original story would not be.[/spoiler]

Lambonius

HAN SHOT FIRST!!!!!!


*Sorry, had to.   ;D

KatieHal

LOL, hey I agree, Han totally shot first :)

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

TheReturnofDMD

Quote from: wilco64256 on September 19, 2010, 10:11:33 PM
Not sure what you think we disagree with from the originals here...

Just the details it would seem. Those little insignificant details like character motivations and internal storylines. What I mean by internal storyline is the meat of the story--Not just the broad overview that ''Alex would still escape.'', ''Graham would still become king of Daventry.'' The details are where we disagree and I don't see any need to retcon or re-write those little insignificant details.