stupid dog Kings Quest 7

[Haids1987]

Wait...you're supposed to

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

feed ambrosia to the dog?

I never had to do that.....

Seriously?  I didn't know that was optional!  How do you get through the house the second time?

[Enchantermon]

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

With Valanice, I always just clicked the arrow to climb up out of the hole and it cut to the scene just before the image of the bone appears in the dog's thought bubble. Then Malicia grabbed the dog, they left, and I was in the clear.

It never made sense to me, but that's how I always got past that part.

[Haids1987]

Huh.  Interesting.  I wonder if that's a glitch in your game?  'Cause it only shows the bone above his head

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

after you feed him the ambrosia

in my game.

[Enchantermon]

Weird.
Oh, hey, wait. The video linked earlier mentions in the description that

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

the "ambrosia puzzle" was removed in later versions of the game. Since I doubt he's referring to the puzzle where you put the ambrosia in the Horn of Plenty, he must be referring to feeding it to the dog. I must have always played the later version.

[Haids1987]

Why would they remove that puzzle? It's the Sacred Food, I would think you'd need to do it in order for the sequence of the game to make sense. 

Weird.

[Enchantermon]

I don't know either, but that's the only reconciliation I can think of. *shrugs*

[Haids1987]

Eh, it's all good.

[colin]

Hmm I have played the original Kinqs Quest 7 which required a patch disk and I have the last release of the game as part of the collection and needed that item.

[Enchantermon]

That's...really weird, then. You have the 2006 Vivendi collection?

[colin]

Hi Jonathan

To clarirfy I do not have the 2006 Vivendi Collection. I have the 1997 Kinqs Quest Collection that contains extras
like the apple 2 games etc. This collection contains the last version of Kinqs Quest 7 which is the only version
that you can also use in Dos. I understand that the vivendi collection is just the same version.

[Cat1]

Enchantermon that happens to me too, and I have the 1997 KQ collection!  Strange!

[colin]

Enchantermon that happens to me too, and I have the 1997 KQ collection!  Strange!

I don't understand this is odd.

[Enchantermon]

Okay, I think I understand. The Windows version of the game, which is the one I played the very first time I got my hands on KQ7, has this puzzle removed. The Windows version is also the version included in the 2006 King's Quest Collection.
When you install the patches from sierrahelp.com, the KQ7 patch instead installs the DOS version of KQ7, which includes this puzzle. I have all of the patches installed now, but have never played KQ7 with them installed (when I played through before TSL was released, I played the Windows version of KQ7 in XP through VMWare). Just now, I played through Chapter 5 of the DOS version and this puzzle was there.
Of course, I have no way of checking the Windows version now, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this puzzle was missing from it, and the YouTube video description seems to confirm that.

[shadyparadox]

As I understand it, KQ7 was a fairly rushed production, so there were several updates after the initial release that included bug fixes as well as changes to the interface and even the removal of a couple puzzles.

These are the versions that I am aware of: 1.4, 1.51, 1.65c, and 2.00b. All of them require Windows with the exception of 2.00b, which is also compatible with DOS. (Or in today's practical terms, it can run within DOSBox without requiring Windows 3.1. Highly recommended for avoiding the firecracker bug.) You can find out which version any copy of the game is by opening the file labeled VERSION in the main folder with Notepad.

The Collections have version 1.4.

Version 2.00b had the most drastic changes:

- The game can run in either Windows or DOS (the DOS version has neat colored arrows for the mouse when pointing at an exit)
- The walking speed of your character can be altered by holding the +/- keys (the = key resets to default speed)
- An improved, though somewhat awkward, save game menu (or "bookmark" menu) is added, as opposed to the Quit button simply saving the game and taking you back to the main menu.
- In older versions, the mouse cursor jumps to the lower middle of the screen above the inventory window whenever it turns into a crown. This has been removed for the most part.
- The crystal dragon death has been removed.
- The ambrosia-on-the-dog puzzle has been removed.* So if you haven't seen that puzzle, then you probably haven't seen the associated death sequences either.

*It actually depends on where you start the game. If you start at Chapter 1, this will happen. If you start at Chapter 5, this will happen. Diamondfist1 informed me of this in the comment section of the first video, and I used it to my advantage in the second video. I started the playthrough from Chapter 1, but since I wanted to include that puzzle, I started a seperate game in Chapter 5, recorded the puzzle, then edited the recordings together to make it look like I never stopped playing (hence my "superpowers" in the video description).

Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever played an old version all the way through. Maybe the same puzzle disappears then too. That would mean the puzzle's existence would depend entirely on where you started the game and have nothing to do with which version you were playing. Interesting.

As for the original question about the dog barking, I believe he's always there until you talk to Ceres, unless you get really lucky with a glitch. He may still be there after you talk to Ceres, but he shouldn't take long to go away.

[Lambonius]

KQ7's chapter system was probably the worst bad game design decision in the history of the KQ series (which, as much as we all love it, was a series fraught with bad game design decisions.)  Worse than the dead ends in KQ5.  Worse than turning MOE into an 3D action game.  It was that bad.  All this talk just further proves it.    It was a game design decision that literally broke the game.  Epic fail. 

hehe.

[Enchantermon]

- The ambrosia-on-the-dog puzzle has been removed.* . . .

*It actually depends on where you start the game. If you start at Chapter 1, this will happen.

That's it! That's what always happened for me. I guess I never saw the puzzle because I never started in the middle of the game before, except for when I formulated my above theory. Thanks for explaining.

KQ7's chapter system was probably the worst bad game design decision in the history of the KQ series . . .

I completely disagree. How did it break the game? No matter what chapter you start with, you can play through until the end. I can only think of one instance where something odd happens as a result (this being Attis warning you about going into the forest as you're walking away from it if you start at chapter 4 or 5). In fact, thinking about it, the idea was just ahead of its time, because it's very similar to episodic gaming, with the main difference being that the game was released all at once instead of in segments. I don't have a problem with it at all.

[Lambonius]

From a narrative standpoint, it makes no sense.  It should never be an option to play the ending of a game before you've played the rest of it.

Let me ask you this: What possible advantage does it have that simply including a functional save feature wouldn't also accomplish?

PS:  I was exaggerating a might, too.    But I do think it was a totally pointless decision that further serves to dumb down a game that already seems to be aimed squarely at children (despite some tough puzzles in parts.)

[Enchantermon]

From a narrative standpoint, it makes no sense.  It should never be an option to play the ending of a game before you've played the rest of it.

Honestly, who's going to do that if they haven't already played the game? If they forget to save (which i bet happens more often than some of us care to admit), it gives you another starting point that doesn't force you to play more of the game over than you have to.

Let me ask you this: What possible advantage does it have that simply including a functional save feature wouldn't also accomplish?

It helps the game feel a little less ADD. KQ7 is unlike any other KQ game because you control two different characters, and not only that, but they don't interact with each other at all until the very end of the game (and even then, only in scripted cutscenes). Splitting the game into chapters presents you with sensible transitions between the two and makes the transition feel less awkward.

[shadyparadox]

I'd say the broken save game menu was the worst part of the chapter feature, if you consider the two related (as chapters and bookmarks kinda are). Obviously it's your own choice whether you want to skip ahead, so if you don't, nothing is ruined. The chapters were probably included to create a natural time for switching characters, and that could still have been pulled off without letting the player choose which chapter to start with.

I'm glad to hear you were exaggerating, Lambo, because dead ends were by far the worst problem with the early games. Sure, KQ7 might come across as an oversimplified kids game, but still the main bright spot about the game to me is that it not only got rid of the dead ends, but for the most part, it also got rid of the nonsensical deaths present in the earlier games like the ones we were talking about in the other thread.

[crayauchtin]

It helps the game feel a little less ADD. KQ7 is unlike any other KQ game because you control two different characters, and not only that, but they don't interact with each other at all until the very end of the game (and even then, only in scripted cutscenes). Splitting the game into chapters presents you with sensible transitions between the two and makes the transition feel less awkward.

Ding ding DING!!

That was the purpose of doing the chapter system -- they needed a way to transition. And I think the chapter system does a fantastic job of doing just that.