Author Topic: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming  (Read 27294 times)

Offline wilco64256

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The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« on: November 02, 2010, 05:17:00 PM »
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/113/1131761p1.html

I think this seems to be heading in a good direction for the industry - I always thought it was ridiculous that people were pushing for this law in the first place when we already have the ESRB and most retailers have reasonably effective policies in place for M-rate games in the first place.

Anyways, discuss.
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Offline MusicallyInspired

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2010, 05:51:16 PM »
Comic books yesterday, video games today, holograms tomorrow.

Offline wilco64256

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2010, 06:21:56 PM »
I take it as a good sign that less than a minute into Morazzini's speech they're ripping apart his logic, he's struggling right from the beginning to give them an even remotely reasonable basis for his claims.
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Offline Melook

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2010, 06:38:44 PM »
They are good. They tore his argument up so fast. I didn't even read a quarter of it and I knew he lost. 
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Offline FFL2and3rocks

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2010, 06:52:14 PM »
Haha, that was an entertaining read (although I skimmed through most of it). I would have laughed more if the term "murder simulator" came up, though.

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2010, 06:52:49 PM »
I found Morazzini to be a tad ill-prepared. He obviously has his own reasons to hold onto his position, but I thought he was starting to become a broken record. It's nice to see that the Justices have a clear view of the circumstances and repercussions of their decision. The last thing California needs is a Prohibition, especially with Prop 19 and all of it's glory.  ::)

As a former video game retail associate that resides in California, I am somewhat attached to this case. In my experience, violent video games were sold with attentiveness to the ESRB rating and the presence of a parent or guardian. However, I never sensed a shift in attitude to the minors who bought violent video games. Minors may be underage, but they aren't mentally unstable. This whole "violent games make violent kids" rant is truly a bunch of hogwash. Maybe in a few cases, kids may get out of hand, but that falls under the jurisdiction of the parents and their parenting skills. No reason to let a few bad apples spoil the batch.

It was an intriguing read Weldon. Nice find. I like to think this will blow over, especially with the Justices take on the situation. If a law should be created for the benefit of Morazzini's position (as we all know, he's not the only one), I see it being so minor that it would hardly affect the industry on a grand scale.
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Offline Eike

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2010, 07:38:28 PM »
Postal II? Lulz. But in all serious that was a hillarious read, especially the James Maddison bit. He was UNBELIEVABLELY unprepared. It was really pathetic to see he trying to make a comeback. My dad agreed when I explained it to him. He even chimed in upon the mention of ESRB and knew how dumb this case is.

I'm surprised that they didn't make use of video evidence and lack of games in their research. Though I got a huge chuckle out of the Mortal Kombat comment later on by the one justice. If they actually did some research and showed off some of the games they could of had some chance. But the judges really ripped them a new one and knew the right questions to ask. Today, the supreme court is my hero. Well done!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 07:40:11 PM by Eike »

Offline wilco64256

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2010, 07:49:05 PM »
Horribly ill-prepared in my opinion - you don't go before the Supreme Court with only a handful of references to support asking them to do something.  Plus the fact that he hasn't actually given any real definitions to what he's suggesting be implemented.

You're absolutely right that this is just a parental control issue, and several justices mentioned that facet as well - event if this law were passed parents could still buy anything they wanted for minors.  I believe the gaming industry is perfectly capable of policing itself in this matter without the government having to step in and create any new laws to regulate something we're already working to regulate.

That being said, I do also agree that there are a number of games out there that fall into the category I simply refer to as "garbage" that I don't care to play and I wouldn't ever buy for my kids no matter how much they begged, but I don't need any law to help me figure out which games are worth playing and which aren't.

I'm impressed with the court here - in total honesty they are all much older than our average crowd and I was a bit shocked at how aware they were of the issue and the gaming industry in general.
Weldon Hathaway

Offline LadyTerra

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2010, 10:02:40 PM »
Wow.  Not only was Morazzini unprepared, he's way in over his head.  I mean, all of the publicized controversy Mortal Kombat went through and he seemed to have no idea of what it was.  And the bit about Vulcans cracked me up.

Still, when your best example is Postal 2, a game that was specifically made to offend people like that (which still wasn't as bad as the game Jack Thompson designed), you're in deep trouble.  I saw somewhere that they were also going to use Metal Gear Solid 3 as evidence for "realistically graphic first-aid using knives to take out bullets."  I'll see if I can find the article that mentions MGS3.
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Offline wicked_lu

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 11:00:42 AM »
Minors may be underage, but they aren't mentally unstable. This whole "violent games make violent kids" rant is truly a bunch of hogwash. Maybe in a few cases, kids may get out of hand, but that falls under the jurisdiction of the parents and their parenting skills. No reason to let a few bad apples spoil the batch.

I agree with this completely. Not every kid is going to take what they learned from a game and go homocidal. It does boil down to the morales instilled in these kids by their parents. If the parents raised their child to know the difference between right and wrong, fact and fiction, then letting their child play these games shouldn't be this great fear of "Is my kid going to murder everyone now that they have played this game?"

They tried to do this some time ago with music...The whole Marilyn Manson case...it's ridiculous to blame musicians or actors or the gaming industry for the violent acts of individuals. People have free will, and their own minds and thought processes, regardless of what anyone can say or suggest, it doesn't MAKE anyone do anything they don't want to do. But, as a scapegoat, they blame these industries and make cases out of them to make themselves look better to their parents, their families, and the public eye.

And it's sad really.

Offline crayauchtin

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2010, 11:03:00 AM »
I agree with this completely. Not every kid is going to take what they learned from a game and go homocidal. It does boil down to the morales instilled in these kids by their parents. If the parents raised their child to know the difference between right and wrong, fact and fiction, then letting their child play these games shouldn't be this great fear of "Is my kid going to murder everyone now that they have played this game?"

They tried to do this some time ago with music...The whole Marilyn Manson case...it's ridiculous to blame musicians or actors or the gaming industry for the violent acts of individuals. People have free will, and their own minds and thought processes, regardless of what anyone can say or suggest, it doesn't MAKE anyone do anything they don't want to do. But, as a scapegoat, they blame these industries and make cases out of them to make themselves look better to their parents, their families, and the public eye.

And it's sad really.
Are you implying that parents should raise their own children??? GASP! Hogwash! Unheard of! :P
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Offline wicked_lu

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 11:34:19 AM »
Are you implying that parents should raise their own children??? GASP! Hogwash! Unheard of! :P

Haha...I know...it's that little thing called "responsibility" for their children and how they raise them...
And my friend, that is what is unheard of today. Lol.
I have a daughter, and I know I've taught her right from wrong...and would have NO problems with her playing any type of game...She loves watching Gears of War...but I don't see her running around trying to chainsaw anyone. lol.

Offline Enchantermon

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 01:19:37 PM »
Wait...so the schools aren't supposed to raise people's children for them? ??? :P
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline KatieHal

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2010, 01:22:16 PM »
And apparently neither is TV! Geez!  ::)

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Offline crayauchtin

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 01:58:04 PM »
And apparently neither is TV! Geez!  ::)
Wait! Waitwaitwait!!

If Lady Gaga is not going to raise my children, what is she making music for?? I feel SO misled!
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Offline Blackthorne

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 02:04:11 PM »
We didn't really have violent video games when I was a young warthog.  I mean, the most violent games got, really, as a kid were in "Berserk" when the bad guys "fried" you with laser beams.

There were still kids who were violent bullies, though.  Kids that have a propensity for violence are going to gravitate towards that, whether or not there's video games about it.

And when I was a teen, and Mortal Kombat came out and sparked all kinds of controversy, I'll tell you - the violence didn't increase or decrease.  The bullies were still the same!


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Offline MusicallyInspired

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 05:20:53 PM »
I love the people who say that school shooters know their way around a gun because they've been playing shooters on the computer and xbox for years. As if a keyboard, mouse, or controller is going to make you proficient at firing an actual firearm.

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2010, 07:11:00 PM »
I love the people who say that school shooters know their way around a gun because they've been playing shooters on the computer and xbox for years. As if a keyboard, mouse, or controller is going to make you proficient at firing an actual firearm.

However, newer games have wittingly configured the controllers' "trigger buttons" to be the buttons to push if you want to shoot a gun. Coincidence, no?

Joking aside, video games don't truly simulate the experience of shooting a real gun. Games allow you to lock on to your targets, or at least offer aim-assist. When using a real gun, aiming is a lot more than just lining up a reticle. But these prosecutors are just telling parents what they want to hear. Still, the Supreme Court knows better than to trust these nonsensical rants.
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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2010, 07:20:16 PM »
However, newer games have wittingly configured the controllers' "trigger buttons" to be the buttons to push if you want to shoot a gun. Coincidence, no?

Too funny! XD

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Offline Blackthorne

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Re: The Supreme Court and Violence in Gaming
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2010, 07:58:49 PM »
As someone who's had extensive experience with firearms all my life, I can honestly say that "shooting" video games really do not reflect the experience of using a firearm.

I remember the first time I fired a Kalashnikov (AK-47), and being surprised at how unwieldy it is.  The physical requirements of firing such a weapon are a precise and delicate matter which require much training to use properly.


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anything