Author Topic: Assassin's Creed franchise  (Read 50528 times)

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2010, 10:25:15 PM »
It's not "vague" it simply means the period when Japan had a feudal system. Which of course lasted 500 years or so.


Yeah, by "vague", I meant "encompassing an extremely long period of time". It is "vague" in the sense that it doesn't contribute to DD's theory that AC's ancestral societies are advancing forward in time over the course of the series, because Feudal Japan could be before or after Renaissance Italy.

Frankly, I don't think my comment is much of a "theory" but more of a fact. I mean, think of it logically. Would Desmond learn a new trick through the bleeding effect from a Samurai that came before Ezio? Ezio would already have that ability, and perhaps better (Ezio had a better version of Eagle Vision than Altair for example). You need only look at the series itself for the proof.

I'm not sure your assertion is factual, unless some developer said so. Desmond's ancestors obviously did not have access to the Animus, and thus, for the most part, they each developed without the aid of their ancestors. So, logically, they would each have their own strengths and weaknesses based on their learned fighting styles and technology of the time. Desmond can benefit from studying any assassin, because each one, regardless of time period, would have valuable, exclusive techniques.

You assert that Desmond must continuously learn from newer ancestors, who have improved abilities. That is not necessarily true, logically. What if, for example, Alta´r was a better swordsman than Ezio, but Ezio was a better brawler than Alta´r? If Desmond's ancestral assassins continuously became stronger and stronger with each generation, then by your logic, Desmond should be the strongest, right? That is clearly not the case.

I see logic has been used against me... I am by no means an expert on logic, and so you win this battle. I still think the developers will use an assassin that hails from a time period after Ezio's.

And Fierce Deity, I meant Russia. For some reason I get russia and Alaska confused...
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Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2010, 11:29:27 PM »
Desmond may not be the strongest assassin, but he definitely has the potential to be the strongest assassin. It depends solely on how you look at it. For any craft or art that requires skill, newer generations are exposed to the knowledge of the past. For instance, if I had a master assassin as my teacher, it's safe to say that his potential will inspire me to reach his level of skill. Even after his passing, I'll be able to improve. If I then inspire my student to be as strong as me, he will have the potential to be as good as me, even better. And so on . . .

Clearly, Desmond's ancestors had started off as newbs at some point. Skill isn't inherited, it can be learned through practice. Although Altair was a master assassin and had the strongest sense of commitment towards his art, his skill was limited to his time. Therefore, Ezio (granted the art of killing passes on through time as it did) would have access to Altair's technique and moves, while Altair wouldn't have access to the know-how of using a hidden gun. Like I said, it depends on how you look at it. If you want to be technical, Ezio was a late bloomer and didn't exactly have the art of killing down to a science. Still, idealistically, Ezio has the potential to be as good as Altair, and Ezio's descendants have the potential to be as good as him. The only thing that changes throughout this progression is the technology, which would provide newer generations with newer skills and techniques.

I understand what Doon is arguing, but future generations will always be superior to a more archaic generation. Even if a descendant isn't as good as their ancestor, the actual art or craft has improved over the span of time, and thus those willing to learn the art, have an advantage.

Now all of this put aside for a moment, Desmond has a very unfair advantage above all of the other assassins in his bloodline. The Bleeding Effect will allow him to learn the skills of an assassin overnight. Absolutely ridiculous how far he has come in such a short time. He can use Eagle Vision, he can leap around like an assassin, he can brawl, and he can use the hidden blade. He's not far off now from being the ultimate assassin.
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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2010, 11:52:11 PM »
Even if a descendant isn't as good as their ancestor, the actual art or craft has improved over the span of time, and thus those willing to learn the art, have an advantage.

Well put. I agree.

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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2010, 12:29:58 AM »
Even if a descendant isn't as good as their ancestor, the actual art or craft has improved over the span of time, and thus those willing to learn the art, have an advantage.

Well put. I agree.

As do I. I love the Assassin's Creed franchise to death, and frankly, I'm really willing to overlook plot holes. I just want to play more AC. If they decided to go with an assassin in-between Altair and Ezio, that's fine by me, so long as they have a legitimate reason for doing so. As I've stated before, I'm willing to give Ubisoft the benefit of the doubt. The AC franchise has proven to be massively successful so far, warranting two full blown console sequels, one of which literally a year after the other one, with no sign of slowing down. Now if only the rest of the industry would get off their butts and start making new IPs. But that's a discussion for another thread. In any event, I'm hoping brotherhood has some decent DLC that's not multiplayer maps and a bit more substantial than missing sequences. Only time will tell I suppose. Speaking of multiplayer though, I should start using the multiplayer in brotherhood. I've heard really good things about it, but I haven't yet had the time to try it.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2010, 08:22:28 AM »
Quote
And Fierce Deity, I meant Russia. For some reason I get russia and Alaska confused...
Wow, that's pretty big confusion... About the only thing they have in common is that they are close to each other, and that Russia once controlled Alaska. There are still alot of Russian Orthodox Churches there.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2010, 09:58:26 AM »
And if you live in Alaska, you can see Russia from your house.... XD sorry, forgive that little political banter. Joking aside, yes, it is a rather big confusion.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2010, 03:55:27 PM »
Well to be fair, the Palin's quote was actually, "From certain parts of Alaska you can actually see Russia" (which is technically true)...

It was SNL, that modified it to, "I can see Russia from My House." (which is hilarious political parody, and not true). SNL's version stuck, and a lot of people quote SNL, thinking they are quoting Palin, believing she said the latter.

Its kinda like how people think the quote, "Beam me UP, Scotty" originates out of Star Trek, yet is never said in the film. Another one is the "Play it again, Sam" quote, which does not appear in Casablanca.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2010, 05:29:58 PM »
Well to be fair, the Palin's quote was actually, "From certain parts of Alaska you can actually see Russia" (which is technically true)...

I can imagine that the Aleutian Islands would be as close as one can get to Russia from Alaska without falling into the ocean. Still, nobody knows for sure how to interpret that Palin quote. Although what she said is true, the comment itself was ineffective in getting a point across. There's a reason why people found he quote to be so ridiculous. So you can see Russia from Alaska, so what?

Another point I wanted to make was how SNL had embellished the truth of Palin's comment. I distinctly remembering her referring to Russia as a "backdoor neighbor". Clearly, it was meant to be a metaphor and not to be taken literal, but if a cheap shot can be made on a politician, you can bet it will be taken without hesitation. Especially when it comes to SNL. It must be hard to keep that show going considering how far it's fallen from its heyday.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2010, 06:08:43 PM »
Yes, I understand you can see it from Diomede islands. Apparently you can also see it from main land alaska at certain times of the year from tops of the mountains near a couple of small towns Cape Prince of Wales and Shimaref. That's because the mountains and the cities on them are high enough if the weather is right to look over the curve the earth and see some of the mountains of Siberia. Interesting trivia.

So ya basically I went and listened to Palin's quote (although most of the message cut off so I couldn't get full context). The one interviewer asked her about what insight does proximity of Alaska to Russia give her. She starts out by saying, "they are nextdoor neihbors", then goes off on a tangent to point out an interesting fact of trivia (you can tell by her facial expressions she wanted to give out trivia, she thought people might find interesting), that "you can actually see russia from land here in Alaska". Which had nothing to do with geo-political question, she was asked, and kinda came out of the blue. If she had avoided random bits of trivia, they wouldn't have had anything to mock out of it, LOL.

Politicians and there verbal gaffs, I'm partial to Obama's "57 states", or Bush's "Our enemies don't stop thinking about ways to harm our country, and neither do we".
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 10:31:44 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2010, 07:47:06 PM »
Politicians and there verbal gaffs, I'm partial to Obama's "57 states", or Bush's "Our enemies don't stop thinking about ways to harm our country, and neither do we".

Ahh, good ol' Bush. His speeches always put a smile on my face. For all the wrong reasons of course, but the fact remains the same.  ::)
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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2010, 09:48:31 PM »
If I may interject: This thread is about Assassin's Creed, not politics. I made my little comment earlier as a joke. I didn't intend for it to start an off-topic train. So, from here on out, let's focus on AC, alright?
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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2010, 09:51:12 PM »
Fun fact: Assassin's Creed (1) was originally supposed to have a crossbow as a usable weapon, but it was cut from the final game.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 09:53:50 PM by kindofdoon »

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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2010, 09:57:55 PM »
Fun fact: Assassin's Creed (1) was originally supposed to have a crossbow as a usable weapon, but it was cut from the final game.

Really? The crossbow is first introduced as a usable weapon Brotherhood. I'm surprised they didn't try fitting it in 2, especially if it was cut from the first game. I honestly wouldn't have minded a weapon pack for 2 that included a crossbow, and maybe just for kicks, a machine gun. I mean, I'd find it absolutely hilarious to see Ezio running around Italy with a machine gun... And they could explain it all via a glitch in the Animus... But that's not gonna happen...
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Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2010, 11:52:37 PM »
Fun fact: Assassin's Creed (1) was originally supposed to have a crossbow as a usable weapon, but it was cut from the final game.

I knew about that. I thought a crossbow would have been nice, but it would have been a tad bit conspicuous, I reckon. I'm surprised Ezio can get away with it in Brotherhood. You'd think the guards would just notify everybody about an assassin wearing a crossbow on his back. He'd be easy to spot. The hidden gun is much more stealthy I think.

Speaking of the hidden gun, I liked that one hit in AC2 wear you had to shoot the guy on the boat from a masquerade party. It was by far the easiest hit, but it was the most creative.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 12:23:31 AM by Fierce Deity »
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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2010, 12:12:47 AM »
Yeah, the hidden gun was a nice addition.

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Offline Baggins

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2010, 10:33:53 AM »
The crossbow was in Assassin's Creed: Altair's Chronicles. Kind of a interesting auto-targeting feature, for snipping enemies from above.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2010, 01:46:50 PM »
The only two downsides to the hidden gun are the lack of ammo upgrades for it (and I shouldn't have to do anything on uPlay to get the upgrades) and the noise it makes in game. The crossbow in brotherhood is much quieter, and it holds a lot more ammo than the hidden gun. So the crossbow has become my long ranged weapon of choice. Unfortunately, the guards also have crossbows, and they use them at close range in addition to long range. Crossbows hurt, no matter what range you're shooting them from...
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Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2010, 04:35:37 PM »
The only two downsides to the hidden gun are the lack of ammo upgrades for it (and I shouldn't have to do anything on uPlay to get the upgrades) and the noise it makes in game. The crossbow in brotherhood is much quieter, and it holds a lot more ammo than the hidden gun. So the crossbow has become my long ranged weapon of choice. Unfortunately, the guards also have crossbows, and they use them at close range in addition to long range. Crossbows hurt, no matter what range you're shooting them from...

I agree on all accounts. I like the idea of uPlay, but the Rewards are somewhat lackluster. There are a few Rewards that I think were cool. Being able to bring over the Armor of Altair from AC2 into Brotherhood sounds kind of cool. I do like how they made Ezio's armor in Brotherhood to look more like Altair's outfit from AC1, but the Armor of Altair was very badass.

Also, being able to increase the amount of bullets you can carry is a swell idea, but the fact that you have to spend your Ubi points to get a bigger bullet bag makes it a bit of a waste. I think the type of Rewards that would be fitting for a game would be the kind of promotional DLC items you get when you preorder games at Gamestop. Costumes, multiplayer map packs, etc. Anything that really expands on the full game experience should remain in-game.

Also, I like the crossbow for what it is, but I want to see how the future assassins will approach long-range attacks. If the next time period approaches anything closer to the modern age, then the assassins will have to stop being so old-fashioned.

On a side note, I found an article that was sharing a theory of the setting for the next Assassin's Creed. It has the same theory as me (if you had read my spoiler tag), for the same reasons. Enjoy at your own risk, cause there will be spoilers:

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2010/12/07/assassins-creed-3-setting-revealed-in-brotherhood/
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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2010, 04:39:59 PM »
I think I will like AC3 regardless of where it is, whether Feudal Japan or Revolutionary America, but this sounds awesome. I love history, especially American history, so I am looking forward to this very much.

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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Assassin's Creed franchise
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2010, 05:12:42 PM »
I have yet to finish Brotherhood, so let's try to keep possible locations for the next game in spoiler tags, shall we? And plot information for that matter.
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