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Remake of a remake?

Started by Tinu, January 02, 2011, 08:28:49 AM

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Tinu


MusicallyInspired


atec123

Official maintainer of TSL in linux via Wine. TSL AppDB page
Maintainer of TSL in OSX via Wine
TSL IRC Chatroom Maintainer
We are the Defenders of Jazz Ballet
People say, when they see us:
Hey, folks! It's the Saviours of Jazz Ballet
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dark-daventry

I wish people would stop with all the KQIX remakes. Frankly, it's insulting. Phoenix put a lot of effort into making TSL and they've sacrificed a lot. To see people show their unhappiness with our hard work by making a "remake" is just plain rude and insulting, and honestly it isn't worth the effort.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

KatieHal

This is the same "remake" of TSL (which, btw, is not a remake itself). This guy has since stopped making it, I believe, it was pretty much just a trolling thing.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

dark-daventry

Quote from: KatieHal on January 02, 2011, 12:49:12 PM
This is the same "remake" of TSL (which, btw, is not a remake itself). This guy has since stopped making it, I believe, it was pretty much just a trolling thing.

Well, I'm glad he stopped. It's just really insulting to see something like that. We as a team have invested a lot of time and effort into making this game, and to see people doing "remakes" is just disheartening juvenile really. if you don't like the game, tell us, and do so in a courteous and respectful manner. We've already incorporated fan requests to make the game better in episode 2, and who knows what improvements episode 3 will have...
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

Baggins

I'd much rather people use their inguinity and make their own vision of KQ9, or original KQ game.... than ripoff assets from another game... A remake is a copout... Granted they'll probably get a C&D... but still.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

dark-daventry

Quote from: Baggins on January 02, 2011, 02:09:44 PM
I'd much rather people use their inguinity and make their own vision of KQ9, or original KQ game.... than ripoff assets from another game... A remake is a copout... Granted they'll probably get a C&D... but still.

For once, I agree with you baggins. I just hate seeing people rip off all of our hard work. It's really depressing.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

chucklas

Quote from: dark-daventry on January 02, 2011, 02:11:12 PM

For once, I agree with you baggins. I just hate seeing people rip off all of our hard work. It's really depressing.

Really?  There are a number or remakes, and many people would love a "de-make" of MoE.  When all is said and done if someone were to remake TSL in a different style it doesn't have to be insulting.  Yes the "game" in discussion came about as an attempt to mock and insult...etc. but remakes of games are typically done because someone/people love a game/series.  TSLs origins was like that.  Although it is not a remake, people out there could say, "I just hate seeing people rip off all of our hard work. It's really depressing."  Just because you aren't copying a game, you had no legal right to use the characters, lands and much of the story...etc.  Do people hate you for it?  Did Roberta Williams come out and make comments like that?  No, she didn't.  If someone at some time uses TSL to make a great game of their own, POS (I love the acronym btw) would have no ground to get all pissy about it.  Just my 2 cents.
I didn't know how much I really enjoyed the Sierra Adventure Games until I played them all over again 15 years later.

wilco64256

Well we actually have every right to be pissy about this one - there's a huge difference between remaking a game a decade later while giving credit to the original creators, and remaking a game that's currently in production and using the existing game's audio files, descriptions, writing, etc. without giving any credit to the people who actually created the game.
Weldon Hathaway

dark-daventry

Quote from: wilco64256 on January 02, 2011, 05:41:41 PM
Well we actually have every right to be pissy about this one - there's a huge difference between remaking a game a decade later while giving credit to the original creators, and remaking a game that's currently in production and using the existing game's audio files, descriptions, writing, etc. without giving any credit to the people who actually created the game.

Thank you for posting that. It explains our point of view perfectly.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

atec123

Quote from: wilco64256 on January 02, 2011, 05:41:41 PM
Well we actually have every right to be pissy about this one - there's a huge difference between remaking a game a decade later while giving credit to the original creators, and remaking a game that's currently in production and using the existing game's audio files, descriptions, writing, etc. without giving any credit to the people who actually created the game.
he was going to change that stuff in the final game.

he was just trolling I think.  I don't think he was actually gonna remake the whole game.

still though, I kinda agree with everyone here....

whatever, I think it's dead now.
Official maintainer of TSL in linux via Wine. TSL AppDB page
Maintainer of TSL in OSX via Wine
TSL IRC Chatroom Maintainer
We are the Defenders of Jazz Ballet
People say, when they see us:
Hey, folks! It's the Saviours of Jazz Ballet
Fearless heroes of kick and spin

chucklas

Of course this guy was trolling.  The comment that I was commenting on made it sound like you were all upset about someone using your ideas.  Sounds quite hypocritical is all I am saying.  I have always been a supporter of TSL, and I hope the rest of the chapters are great.  I just think you shouldn't get mad when people do stuff with your work.  Ten days or ten years later it makes no difference.  In the line of remakes and using other intellectual property you just can't get upset when it happens to you.
I didn't know how much I really enjoyed the Sierra Adventure Games until I played them all over again 15 years later.

wilco64256

Quote from: chucklas on January 02, 2011, 06:35:32 PM
Of course this guy was trolling.  The comment that I was commenting on made it sound like you were all upset about someone using your ideas.  Sounds quite hypocritical is all I am saying.  I have always been a supporter of TSL, and I hope the rest of the chapters are great.  I just think you shouldn't get mad when people do stuff with your work.  Ten days or ten years later it makes no difference.  In the line of remakes and using other intellectual property you just can't get upset when it happens to you.

The difference for us is that we have the permission of the people who own the series and we give them credit for their ownership every step of the way.  This guy, trolling or not, creating something that wasn't just based on TSL but actually used our assets that we created without asking permission or even acknowledging that he was using someone else's property.
Weldon Hathaway

Lambonius

#14
Yeah, but let's keep things in perspective, shall we?  You didn't ALWAYS have permission.  In fact, that permission was only very recently gained, relatively speaking, and only then because the cat was so far out of the bag and because the C&D had turned into a huge PR nightmare for a parent company that was already hurting in that area because of the whole Infinity Ward fiasco.  So it's really not all that different, just the intentions of the "team" are different (i.e. trolling vs. tribute.)


dark-daventry

Could we not argue about this on the forums? The fact of the matter is that we're making tsl, and there are "remakes" out there of our game. You can discuss it, but I don't want to see this turning into a full-blown argument. Let's try to keep things under control here, shall we? Not that you're getting out of line or anything, but it is heading down that path, and I'd like to try and avoid going down that route.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

KatieHal

He was a troll. Banned on numerous boards for being as much, including this one (and yes, we gave him a chance to not be one). But yes, his project is dead, and this has all been discussed before.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

wilco64256

Quote from: Lambonius on January 02, 2011, 08:29:53 PM
Yeah, but let's keep things in perspective, shall we?  You didn't ALWAYS have permission.  In fact, that permission was only very recently gained, relatively speaking, and only then because the cat was so far out of the bag and because the C&D had turned into a huge PR nightmare for a parent company that was already hurting in that area because of the whole Infinity Ward fiasco.  So it's really not all that different, just the intentions of the "team" are different (i.e. trolling vs. tribute.)

I think I should clarify a little - Not speaking for the entire team, but personally I have no problem with this guy making his own King's Quest IX or whatever he wants to call it.  He can make all the games he wants and so can everybody else.  The only aspect of his project that I take issue with is the fact that he took our work and distributed it as his own.  I have a problem with any person who takes work that someone else does and either claims or simply implies that it is their own creation.  I thought that his art work was excellent and said on a number of occasions that I would have liked to have seen what he could do with his own writers and voice actors.

I am and always have been a huge fan of fan projects that are done to promote the positive nature of gaming and that pay proper respects to whatever they're based on - I think that fans often do a really excellent job of working to keep particular game series and franchises alive.
Weldon Hathaway

dark-daventry

Quote from: wilco64256 on January 02, 2011, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on January 02, 2011, 08:29:53 PM
Yeah, but let's keep things in perspective, shall we?  You didn't ALWAYS have permission.  In fact, that permission was only very recently gained, relatively speaking, and only then because the cat was so far out of the bag and because the C&D had turned into a huge PR nightmare for a parent company that was already hurting in that area because of the whole Infinity Ward fiasco.  So it's really not all that different, just the intentions of the "team" are different (i.e. trolling vs. tribute.)

I think I should clarify a little - Not speaking for the entire team, but personally I have no problem with this guy making his own King's Quest IX or whatever he wants to call it.  He can make all the games he wants and so can everybody else.  The only aspect of his project that I take issue with is the fact that he took our work and distributed it as his own.  I have a problem with any person who takes work that someone else does and either claims or simply implies that it is their own creation.  I thought that his art work was excellent and said on a number of occasions that I would have liked to have seen what he could do with his own writers and voice actors.

I am and always have been a huge fan of fan projects that are done to promote the positive nature of gaming and that pay proper respects to whatever they're based on - I think that fans often do a really excellent job of working to keep particular game series and franchises alive.

That they do, as evidenced by our own project, as well as both the AGD remakes and the Infamous-Adventures remakes. I believe in the power of the fans first and foremost.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

Lambonius

Quote from: dark-daventry on January 02, 2011, 08:40:36 PM
Could we not argue about this on the forums? The fact of the matter is that we're making tsl, and there are "remakes" out there of our game. You can discuss it, but I don't want to see this turning into a full-blown argument. Let's try to keep things under control here, shall we? Not that you're getting out of line or anything, but it is heading down that path, and I'd like to try and avoid going down that route.

I'm not really interested in inciting an argument either--I'm just pointing out that it's really just a matter of perspective and intention.  If someone did a VGA de-make of TSL as a loving tribute to the game, but that still used the same exact script--it'd still technically be "stealing your resources" to use in another's project, no different than what the aforementioned guy was doing, but somehow I have a feeling no one here would have a problem with it.  And to be fair, I don't think that guy was ever claiming any of the writing or story elements as his own creations.