Remake of a remake?

[KatieHal]

He wasn't exactly tripping over himself to say who DID write it and voice and compose it, either.

[chucklas]

It seems as though everyone is in agreement that he was trollingonly to incite argument...etc.  My only point is that you shouldn't get upset because people use your material.  Script vs characters and concepts have very little difference.  I just think that if anyone should be open to the idea of people using their ideas and materials, it should be those who have been doing the same thing.  Thats all.  I am not trying to start a fight about anything, I just wanted to give you the perspective from someone not involved with either project.  Sometimes it is hard to step out of your position to see things from a neutral position.

[KatieHal]

It is. There was also the fact that we didn't want what he was doing to affect our agreement with Activision, which has some specific stipulations about distribution, naming, etc, to it, should they have come across his project as well and thought it was connected to us in any way. A slim chance, but a real concern.

[Cez]

We actually don't mind much that people use our assets --which is why we never really worried to encrypt our source code or files. But, like it's been mentioned before here, it's a matter of intent and timing.

intent because yes, he did not ask for permission. Lamb, we didn't recently just got "permission". We had the blessings from Roberta and Ken Williams since the first year of production --which is something we sought out to do, and which to me is more important than the legal permission we got later from Vivendi and Activision. And intent because it's very different to have someone do something out of love, than to have someone do something out of disrespect. Cannot be really blamed for that.

Timing because, like Weldon's saying, we are doing a game right now, and we have put too much effort into this for someone else to run into that game and believe that's what we are doing, including legal reasons, press, etc.  

So, it's not being a hypocrite. Very far from that.  It potentially can hurt what we are currently producing, and that's what bothers me about it.

[chucklas]

Cez, I completely agree with the reasons you gave for being upset.  Those are far from the "I just hate seeing people rip off all of our hard work. It's really depressing" that I talking about to begin with.

Good luck with the rest of the game!  I am looking forward to playing it.

[Cez]

Thanks!

And yeah, I mean, when I go to youtube or deviantart, etc, I really don't mind that people have grabbed assets to do fan things about us. So, the point you and Lamb were trying to make is very valid from that angle. Still, fan products that happen during production are normally harmless because they are not competing against the main product or trying to take advantage of it, but rather are fun things for the community, and they are very welcomed by us as long as they respect their source material.

We recently had someone use Michael Fortunato's artwork to stamp it on a book that was selling through amazon or some other place. That's another example of something that is distasteful.

So I think we are all on the same page here. It's not the using of the assets, but what you do with the assets that you are using what matters. I would never say no to a request for a well intentioned TSL-related product if it doesn't have bad repercussions on the game itself. Look at for example what those german guys did for Tales of Monkey Island (the what happens next!)

[dark-daventry]

Thanks!

And yeah, I mean, when I go to youtube or deviantart, etc, I really don't mind that people have grabbed assets to do fan things about us. So, the point you and Lamb were trying to make is very valid from that angle. Still, fan products that happen during production are normally harmless because they are not competing against the main product or trying to take advantage of it, but rather are fun things for the community, and they are very welcomed by us as long as they respect their source material.

We recently had someone use Michael Fortunato's artwork to stamp it on a book that was selling through amazon or some other place. That's another example of something that is distasteful.

So I think we are all on the same page here. It's not the using of the assets, but what you do with the assets that you are using what matters. I would never say no to a request for a well intentioned TSL-related product if it doesn't have bad repercussions on the game itself. Look at for example what those german guys did for Tales of Monkey Island (the what happens next!)

That's the point I was trying to get at. I just can't articulate my thoughts well. No wonder I failed 8th grade law class

[Sslaxx]

It's just a pity that Magic Mirror is working with this arsehole - it makes me not want to play their remake of KQ IV.

[Edited posts because, I've realised that even if I wouldn't play it, I wouldn't want it not completed.]

[atec123]

It's just a pity that Magic Mirror is working with this arsehole - it makes me not want to play their remake of KQ IV. In fact, it makes me want it to not be completed.

I don't follow that logic, sorry.

Blame it on me if it makes you feel better.  I am 100 percent responsible that he is working there.  I thought it would be better for everyone, seeing as they needed help and he needed something real to do. (and from what I understand, his work is really good so far)

also.... don't you want a KQ4 remake?  When it all comes down to it, I would play a KQ4 remake that was good no matter how much I hated the team.  I happen to really like the team though, personally.

[Sslaxx]

Consider his past actions. He is clearly not very likeable. Now what happens if there's a conflict between him and the Magic Mirror team? I'm not sure I'd want to find out, if I was on the Magic Mirror team. KQIV-Team is born? His talent doesn't make up for his being an arsehole in my mind.

I'd rather see http://www.bigbluecup.com/yabb/index.php?topic=39874.0 Nightfable's effort succeed in that case.

[Edited posts because, I've realised that even if I wouldn't play it, I wouldn't want it not completed.]

[KatieHal]

I don't bear Magic Mirror any ill will, although I don't have any fondness for "KQIX-Team/King Alexander". But I must say Nightfable's artwork is great, I really love her picture of Lolotte especially!

[atec123]

I want MMGames remake to succeed.  I have been following them for almost as long as TSL.  Whatever though.  Nightfables remake looks pretty good as well.  I like the talk portraits.

If the MMGames remake is finished I will be very happy.  You can choose to not play it for whatever reason, but I dunno.  I don't care.  Especially since I got him on the team, I am happy to see the team succeed.

He was trolling.  Now he is not trolling.  He was an a****** (arsehole over in england), but now he is serious.  I don't care about his past actions anymore.

[KatieHal]

Fair enough. I tend to hold grudges for a while (as some here could tell you!).

[Enchantermon]

I'm with atec. As long the remake gets completed and completed well, I don't really care who is on the team; I will be glad to see it finally come to completion and I will play it with a thankful heart.

[crayauchtin]

While I'm very supportive of any remake of KQ4 that gets done..... I think I would prefer Nightfable's version.

Why?
Other than the KQIX-Team joining them and my thoughts on his being an incredible jerk....

I don't think that Magic Mirror has a super-clear vision for their remake. There was discussion on their forums of adding subplots and "improvements" in a KQ2+ style but.... without any overarching theme or with maintaining the same tone throughout. It seemed more like "let's add stuff!! YAYYYYYY!!!!!!" "But what stuff?" "Oh, we'll figure it out later. Add stuff! YAYYYY!!!!!" "Awesome!"
Granted, this was a while ago, but it still left me with an unsettling feeling about the whole project. I liked the KQ2+ remake and I liked the changes in the KQ3+ remake because they fit. They weren't random, they all fit in the same tone of the game, they made sense. That was not the direction I felt MM was heading when it was being discussed.

Also, now that I've seen it....I much prefer Nightfable's Rosellla sprite. And I simply LOVE her dialogue portrait of Lolotte. Incredible work. Even the artistic style of the other things she's shown seem... I don't know, I just like them all better.

That being said, I am playing any KQ4 remake that gets made, no matter by whom.

[waltzdancing]

Another KQ4 remake! I'd love to play any remake of KQ4, especially when I have the other three that were made on my computer. People are really talented these days and I love how people are really putting their hearts and souls into a genre that was practically dead.

[Baggins]

As I recall MMG's plan was to make two remakes. One was going to be a straight remake of KQ4, nothing changed (except for maybe the removal of the in-game clock). This was to be made first.

The second version was going to be a KQ4+, in which forumites were suggesting all sorts of ideas they would like to see in the game. Note not all the forumites were members of the team.

The reason why ideas of the KQ4+ remake were undefined, and unclear, was because, 1. it was going to be made later, and 2. quite a few of the ideas were not released to the public. They might have tossed out a few ideas, to test the waters.

I know a few of their members tossed more detailed script/ideas out to me, in private messages, asking for advice (to help the material to better fit in with the greater KQ material). How much of the that advice they took into account, or plan to take into account who knows (it was a long time ago, and I assume things may have changed alot since then)... I will not discuss this information however, as its confidential.

[Sslaxx]

If this is saying what I think it is, then it sounds like he's a perfect fit, doesn't it?

[atec123]

If this is saying what I think it is, then it sounds like he's a perfect fit, doesn't it?

wait, what?

[KatieHal]

I think he suspects IA's hater there is the same guy.