Author Topic: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.  (Read 35709 times)

Offline snabbott

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2011, 09:17:08 AM »
As far as the chronology goes, I think you're making the same point Damar was trying to make. There's nothing that explicitly says KQ7 comes after KQ6, but that was clearly the intent.

For the medieval vs. modern thing - maybe KQ takes place in modern times but in a place that's isolated from the rest of the world - so they haven't caught up with everything. Plus, it's hard to know what to do with magic in a historical context...

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Offline Enchantermon

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2011, 09:40:37 AM »
BTW, you mentioned the 'grey hair' in KQ5, Actually go back and play KQ4, Graham's hair is an even lighter shade of gray in that game, than in KQ5. But obviously, KQ5 isn't set before KQ4, ;).
He could have done something to his hair, though. After all you know what they say: no one can tell it's "Just for Kings" gel.
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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2011, 10:31:44 AM »
A "few" is a vague quantity in and of itself--I usually take it to mean at least 2, myself, but another might say it simply mean more than one year and close to two years. So IMO, 'a few years' still covers that time period of somewhere between 1-2 years just fine.

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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2011, 11:48:21 AM »
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As far as the chronology goes, I think you're making the same point Damar was trying to make. There's nothing that explicitly says KQ7 comes after KQ6, but that was clearly the intent.
I was saying something similar yes with a bit of a devil's advocate. I can't think of any direct references to the rest of the family in the game, and only ref to Graham during a death scene was cut in version 2.0. However Lorelei Shannon the one who wrote KQ7's story, has clearly stated it's set not long after KQ6 in manual and her background info she wrote for the KQ7 Hintbook. So we obviously know the author's intent and that has to amount to something right? Context in the KQ6 ending also should amount to something as well right? Even the game's numerals usually point to progression

The above is further supported by the KQ8 manual also supports Lorelei's intent for KQ7 in it's summaries of the previous games.
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For the medieval vs. modern thing - maybe KQ takes place in modern times but in a place that's isolated from the rest of the world - so they haven't caught up with everything. Plus, it's hard to know what to do with magic in a historical context...
Ha ha so a land of the lost. I like it, although one still had to assume 'a long time ago'/when mermaids, unicorns and wizards roamed the earth' references in say KQ6 intro cutscene' and many of the manuals would still have to be at least a century ago. So game events may take place late 1800s to 1930s to allow for  the technology being scene. Note dates on graves in Tamir place dates upwards 1700s to Victorian era.

Fascinating to know dragons, mermaids, etc were still roaming the earth as little as a century ago  :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 04:25:44 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Sinister

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2011, 09:02:35 AM »
Some very interesting stuff there Baggins. I've also read through the KQ omnipedia and there's quite a wealth of information on the site. Congrats.

I think to a certain extent some of the King's Quest games remained vague in their exact time line. Of course I agree with reasoning of the time line as discussed. In AI's Hat throwing ceremony we remained rather vague as well, as to how much time had elapsed, it would be logical to suspect that it was several months but it could have also been just a couple of weeks. In any case, it's an interesting read.

With KOS, it's going to be another story all together. KOS is only loosely based on the novel so, the time line of the novel can only be applied in general terms. However, I will make sure that we remain very vague with the specific time. 

Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2011, 09:12:38 AM »
Oh, I'm not expecting KoS to follow KoS timeline. That novel takes place over a month (you can literally break it down by the day). It would be impossible to do a "day to day" game of that magnitude, LOL.

Seriously, what works for a novel wouldn't really work as an adventure game. There is little in KoS that could be compared to adventure game puzzles so it's absolutely certain you would have to make extreme liberties to make something playable and fun.
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In AI's Hat throwing ceremony we remained rather vague as well, as to how much time had elapsed, it would be logical to suspect that it was several months but it could have also been just a couple of weeks.
I had actually taken that "vagueness" into consideration, when putting the timeline together over on the Omnipedia actually (it was discussed in the notes in the article). It still causes a bit of a butterfly effect (to degree is unclear), creating a clearly original alternate timeline, compared to various dates given in other/official games.

Given the destruction wrought by the dragon, though, and seveal references to their being much work to be done to rebuild the land (which takes place before the Hat toss), this suggests it would have to take quite a bit of time.
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I think to a certain extent some of the King's Quest games remained vague in their exact time line.


Both KQ2 and KQ5 are vague only if one doesn't read the manuals (KQ2 manual places KQ1 one year before the game for example, and KQ5/KQ8 manual places KQ5 almost one year after KQ4), or at least if one misses a references made within another game . KQ3-4 (originals) are all pretty specific when it takes place the twins are seventeen/almost eighteen (all events are shown on screen, and/or mentioned in-game text), in-game text in KQ5 places KQ3 about twenty years after KQ2. KQ7 has the specific date for Rosella given in the introduction that she is almost twenty (which works back to KQ3, putting 1-2 years between KQ3 and KQ7). KQ6 has fairly specific references to time, and its relation to KQ5. In that game all references in total are just over 6 months between the games.

KQ8 has absolutely no material offering a date for when it happened in relation to any other game.

If you meant specific calendar dates, no games give that kind of information, and only a few specific calendar dates actually appear in the games, and that's on the tombstones in KQ4. But those don't indicate how much time KQ4 has passed is in relation to when the individuals were buried.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 03:51:30 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Sinister

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2011, 01:42:18 PM »
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Seriously, what works for a novel wouldn't really work as an adventure game. There is little in KoS that could be compared to adventure game puzzles so it's absolutely certain you would have to make extreme liberties to make something playable and fun.

Yup, I agree. And this is the case for KoS, we are taking extreme liberties and making sure the game is fun and in the spirit of KQ.

Quote
Both KQ2 and KQ5 are vague only if one doesn't read the manuals (KQ2 manual places KQ1 one year before the game for example, and KQ5/KQ8 manual places KQ5 almost one year after KQ4), or at least if one misses a references made within another game . KQ3-4 (originals) are all pretty specific when it takes place the twins are seventeen/almost eighteen (all events are shown on screen, and/or mentioned in-game text), in-game text in KQ5 places KQ3 about twenty years after KQ2. KQ7 has the specific date for Rosella given in the introduction that she is almost twenty (which works back to KQ3, putting 1-2 years between KQ3 and KQ7). KQ6 has fairly specific references to time, and its relation to KQ5. In that gamme all references in total are just over 6 months between the games.

KQ8 has absolutely no material offering a date for when it happened in relation to any other game.

Yeah, that's what I mean about "vague". Vague in the sense that most things are "almost" or "about" this long. It works really well to the advantage of game maker's not to set a written down time line, because it gives you some chance to play around with it, with out having to resort to retconning.

Things are pretty clear with the time line, but what I mean is that when dealing with KQ or any other series where you can have a month or week that is not accounted for.. you can play around it. KQ3 and KQ4 are probably the exception, where one game ends.. the other begins.

So, yeah.. I'll read up your findings on AGDI's timeline.

Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2011, 03:49:49 PM »
Case in point, the timelines in Police Quest, and Gabriel Knight, are far more specific (actual calendar dates). So many of the dates end up contradicting themselves.

So someone like Gabriel ends up having like 2-3 possible birthdates.

See here.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 03:53:24 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline crayauchtin

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2011, 08:18:30 AM »
Couldn't you just compress the time between 6 and 7 and fix it all? :\
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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2011, 09:15:08 AM »
There isn't anything to "fix", a butterfly effect, is the idea that any change however minute, will change something else down the timeline. So when a story teller intentionally chooses take liberties, from the original story, they are changing the story, and causing ripples down the timeline. There is nothing to  'fix' because the writers intentionally chose to ignore the original timeline anyways for their own narratives (this means already that the two timelines cannot rest on top of each other), and thus an alternate timeline was created intentionally. The liberties are a significant difference between the two narratives.

BTW, I mentioned this before, but the time between six and seven isn't much at all, actually, I already pointed that out (and I had taken that detail into consideration when putting the timelines together). Rosella is 19 in KQ7 (as per the intro), and Alexander is almost 18 in KQ3. This means that that KQ5 and KQ6 occurs between 1-2 year gap between KQ3 and KQ7. That was all taken into consideration. Even still the changes would still affect the seasons mentioned in the games, that add a bit more specifics as to what time of the year each occurs.

Unless of course, someone takes liberties, and places KQ7 before KQ5 and KQ6 chronologically, and then those games could be anywhere.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 10:37:47 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Lambonius

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2011, 11:24:03 AM »
Who cares?

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2011, 11:40:09 AM »
Who cares?

I agree with this statement. All of these timelines to me are interesting to play through, but nothing more. I don't get myself overly invested in the timelines of KQ. In a way, I really don't think it matters. I feel like analyzing the timeline is a bit useless. The games are fun, regardless of whether or not they fit in a timeline. That's honestly all I care about. I can forgive continuity errors and multiple timelines if the game itself is solid. King's Quest most certainly fits that I think, especially the fan games. But hey, as long as we don't get into arguments like with the Zelda timeline, we should be fine. Now that's a convoluted and complex timeline...  ::)
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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2011, 12:27:39 PM »
Different people find different things interesting. I'm a bit of a historian, so I find chronologies interesting.

If you don't find it interesting, you don't have to read it, or take part in the discussion right? Why get involved with something you find boring?
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Lambonius

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2011, 12:30:25 PM »
Different people find different things interesting. I'm a bit of a historian, so I find chronologies interesting.

If you don't find it interesting, you don't have to read it, or take part in the discussion right? Why get involved with something you find boring?

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Offline snabbott

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2011, 01:04:23 PM »
:rofl:

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Offline Blackthorne

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2011, 06:55:16 PM »
I am positive you're thinking about this way more than anyone who ever worked, created or made these games.  Sometimes, you have to chalk it up to the fact that it's a FANTASY GAME and that sometimes real world principles, such as the passage of time, don't apply - especially in a world that has "the magical law of containment".


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Offline Lambonius

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2011, 07:51:10 PM »
I have the magical law of containment...in my pants.

Offline Enchantermon

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2011, 09:51:06 PM »
I have the magical law of containment...in my pants.


;)
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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2011, 10:03:37 PM »
Strangely, I give proper citations where designers did think of the "amount of time" passing between games, and the seasons they occur in, and people accuse the developers of "not thinking about it".

I must be getting under people's skins, hmm. I wonder why people are getting so defensive?

...or do people just enjoy trolling my threads? I.E. several people (I won't name names) keep on trying to derail the subject into other realms.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 10:07:48 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2011, 10:07:56 PM »
No one's trolling; we're just voicing our opinions, which are different than yours. Nothing wrong with that. If there was legitimate trolling going on here, I'd intervene and stop it. Of course, we should try to be respectful of everyone's opinions too.
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