Author Topic: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.  (Read 36852 times)

Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2011, 10:14:29 PM »
I'm just saying some people in this thread seem to jump back and forth between, "let's ignore what the developers said", "let's ignore intent" (we can do whatever we want), "a game didn't mean what it actually said", to "the developer's never thought about what they were saying", or "they never had any intent".

Take case in point, where one person jumped in angry, claiming after I pointed out difference between KQ3 and KQ3IA with the amount of time occuring in the two games and the ending. Someone came in and actually claimed, to the extent, that the developers "weren't specific to the amount of time passing between KQ3 and KQ4 in the original game", as if accusing me of somehow misinterpreting the original KQ3. To which Katie corrected said person, and went as far to say that TSL chose to follow the version of events in Sierra's KQ3. But his initial post seemed to be an attack on my observation (for who know's what reason)... When all I did was just state the obvious that both are different (no judgments were made on that stating that fact) Nor have I made judgements towards the sources, I've tried to show respect to both versions of the story (though I've compared where they differ from each other).

Several people comes into this thread and basically states "who cares", or that i'm being "pedantic", both of these are borderline flammatory or defensive retorts and borderline verbal abuse. If you don't find this thread interesting you don't need to post really, it's not a helpful 'opinion', nor it is 'constructive'.

These all seem to be rather "defensive" points of view, wishy washy, and contradictory 'opinions'. People seem annoyed, where when I bring up the references made by the developers (both fan developers and official developers), where I compare where  they have chosen to make alternate storylines. They seem to assume this is an 'attack' on some point of view they maintain.

It seems rather illogical to me...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 02:23:02 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2011, 10:31:40 PM »
I'm just saying some people in this thread seem to jump back and forth between, "let's ignore what the developers said", "let's ignore intent" (we can do whatever we want), "a game didn't mean what it actually said", to "the developer's never thought about what they were saying", or "they never had any intent".

Take case in point, where one person jumped in angry, claiming after I pointed out difference between KQ3 and KQ3IA with the amount of time occuring in the two games and the ending. Someone came in and actually claimed, to the extent, that the developers "weren't specific to the amount of time passing between KQ3 and KQ4 in the original game", as if I accusing me of somehow misinterpreting the original KQ3. To which Katie corrected said person, and went as far to say that TSL chose to follow the version of events in Sierra's KQ3. But his initial post seemed to be an attack on my observation (for who know's what reason)... When all I did was just state the obvious that both are different (no judgments were made on that stating that fact) Nor have I made judgements towards the sources, I've tried to show respect both versions of the story (though I've compared where they differ from each other).

Several people comes into this thread and basically states "who cares", or that i'm being "pedantic", both of these are borderline flammatory or defensive retorts and borderline verbal abuse. If you don't find this thread interesting you don't need to post really, it's not a helpful 'opinion', nor it is 'constructive'.

These all seem to be rather "defensive" points of view, wishy washy, and contradictory 'opinions'. People seem annoyed, where when I bring up the references made by the developers (both fan developers and official developers), where I compare where the two chose to make alternate storylines. They seem to assume this is an 'attack' on some point of view they maintain.

It seems rather illogical to me...

I don't see the comment of "don't care" as either borderline flammatory or defensive. I legitimately don't care about the timelines much. I'm not personally attacking you. I'm not being mean in any way. I am stating my own opinion in a respectful manner. I enjoy the KQ games, fan or otherwise, for what they are. I don't get too involved in the plots. There's nothing wrong with timelines (I could go on all day about Star Trek timelines) but for KQ, I enjoy the games for what they are. If you feel you are being personally attacked, then I'm sorry. That isn't my intention, nor do I believe it to be the intention of other posters. We are all merely stating our own opinions.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2011, 10:34:14 PM »
Yet, your comment isn't constructive. If you don't care, then why even bother reading the thread, or posting? Waste your own time much?

What these types of comments really do, is just lead to derailment of actual topic. Off-topic discussions!!!

BTW, I surely hope you aren't "accusing me" of not enjoying the games because I might make threads like this?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 10:40:33 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2011, 10:41:10 PM »
Yet, your comment isn't constructive. If you don't care, then why even bother reading the thread, or posting? Waste your own time much?

I'm a global moderator. My job is to read these threads. As for why I posted, I felt inclined to voice my opinion. There's nothing wrong with that. I tend to voice my opinions both online and offline.

And these comments aren't as off-topic as you may think; we're still talking about the timelines here. Now, if we started talking about Barbie dolls, then yes, that would be off-topic. But we haven't gotten to that point, and I'm hoping we never do.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2011, 10:44:48 PM »
No, I don't think we are talking about timelines now, I think we are talking about what we do and don't like about the games... How others like the game, might bother people, and their enjoyment of the games... Cause I've obviously stepped on people's toes somehow... We are discussing how people may get bothered by random discussions...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 10:47:09 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2011, 10:48:36 PM »
No, I don't think we are talking about timelines now, I think we are talking about what we do and don't like about the games... How others like the game, might bother people, and their enjoyment of the games... Cause I've obviously stepped on people's toes somehow...

Well then let's just get back on topic: What do you think of the proposed timeline of A Tale of Two Kingdoms before it became an original game? Back when it was King's Quest 2 and a half. I admit, I like the 20 year gap between two and three, and there's a lot of story possibilities in that span.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2011, 10:50:55 PM »
I don't know enough about it to make much of a comment. I assume it would be no different than KoS and SNW for adding stories to that era?
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Lambonius

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2011, 12:46:06 AM »
The irony is that you successfully derailed your own thread just to complain about people trying to derail your thread.  ;)

Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2011, 02:01:11 AM »
It was already derailed, by other people, once its off the tracks, you can't really get it back on (to derail it again). So that's not really "irony".

There was an attempt to get it back on the track, but your post just derailed it again..., so again this is not "irony".
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 02:03:57 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2011, 05:46:56 AM »
I'm sorry that we don't agree with you, but these are our opinions, and you are asking about things in a public forum.  Also, you're inquiring specifically about a game I worked on and wrote part of, so I'd say I'm qualified to comment on the situation.  And my opinion is that this is pretty silly to invest so much time and energy into. 

I'm not insulting you personally, Baggins.  I think your passion for all things King's Quest is admirable - I am suggesting that you are thinking a little too much about this one thing, and that your energy would be better spent elsewhere.  But that's JUST my opinion.


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Offline Enchantermon

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2011, 06:42:25 AM »
For what it's worth, I don't really care that much either.

But.

There are lots of things I do care about that most everyone else I know does not care about, so I know how it goes from the other side, too. Hobbies and tastes vary. I hadn't posted my thoughts about not caring because I figured that as long as you're having fun and not impeding anyone else's fun, you should go for it. If someone posts a comment that you feel is unconstructive, you can always just ignore it and continue on, or address the comment in a PM so you deal with it without derailing the thread.

So anyway, it's not of much interest to me, but it obviously is to you, so go for it.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2011, 07:48:08 AM »
Quote
I'm sorry that we don't agree with you, but these are our opinions, and you are asking about things in a public forum.  Also, you're inquiring specifically about a game I worked on and wrote part of, so I'd say I'm qualified to comment on the situation.  And my opinion is that this is pretty silly to invest so much time and energy into.  
So you are saying you disagree, that your ending is 'any' different chronologically than the original game?

Despite the fact that they are different... It just seems you are argueing for the sake of argueing?

Your comment sounds like you are getting defensive for just the sake of it, or that for some reason you seem to "think" I'm criticizing your story? Or is it just argueing for the sake of argueing?

Only Sinister whom I'm assumed worked on the game as well came in here and posted fully civil posts, discussing that yes the endings were chronologically different. He never got defensive about it.

By the way there is a difference in "inquiring", and comparing... But it seems you missed that... I in no way "asked any questions". I was just comparing the differences between the two games, neutrally mind you (there was no judgement being made).

I'm sorry but your post is confusing.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 07:59:57 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Lambonius

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2011, 07:55:00 AM »
Quote
I'm sorry that we don't agree with you, but these are our opinions, and you are asking about things in a public forum.  Also, you're inquiring specifically about a game I worked on and wrote part of, so I'd say I'm qualified to comment on the situation.  And my opinion is that this is pretty silly to invest so much time and energy into.  
So you are saying you disagree, that your ending is 'any' different chronologically than the original game?

Despite the fact that they are different...

Your comment sounds like you are getting defensive for just the sake of it, or that for some reason you seem to "think" I'm criticizing your story?

I'm sorry but this is confusing.

It's only confusing if you're already reading more into things than you should be, which you are.  What BT said is that he disagrees that it's significant.  Not that's different at all.  Sure it's different, that's obvious.  But does it really cause a butterfly effect that totally transforms the timelines of every following game in the series?  Not really--unless you make all sorts of assumptive leaps that aren't really supported by hard in-game (or manual) facts.

Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2011, 08:13:35 AM »
Still in my opinion, even if the "butterfly effect" is small (only moving the ending and KQ4 to a few weeks), I still consider the ending to be significantly different than the original.

You may choose to disagree, but the placement of KQ4 is affected chronologically by when the ending takes place. One occurs during original KQ3 ending moments after returning, and the other occurs "some time later" after the return.

That's neither a bad or good thing in my opinion.

BTW, if people would actually read the timeline in the Omnipedia, I maintained that IA's KQ3 and KQ4 occur the same year. But are "some time apart". I didn't "assume" that it takes place into the next year.

So it seems some people are accusing me of going beyond "reading into things", when all I did was just use the vague placements made in the game.

If I had placed it into the next year, that "would have been" reading into things.

Perhaps you are the ones reading into my posts too much?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 10:40:08 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2011, 10:04:38 AM »
No, I'm saying it doesn't matter.  My KQ3 happens, Alex gets home, Family reunited, Graham throws hat - paves way for heart attack city and KQIV to happen....  There's not much to think about there.

I'm saying who gives a ratsass about how these games occur in a timeline.  It's a series of games, not some kind of historical documentation.  None of this stuff ever really happened.  It's fantasy - you could say that it all takes place in one nano-second of real-time inside of a brain-cell in Roberta Williams head and it would have just as much potential valid truth as lying out some kind of "time-line".  I'm saying that wondering about "different time-lines" because of game variants and such is a useless gesture.  It changes nothing about the games - they still exist.  Your creative efforts are better spent on other things.   

I'm saying that you plotting out timelines for King's Quest is as useful as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.  I know it interests you, but I'm saying you should probably find a more useful interest.


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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2011, 10:21:58 AM »
Do whatever you want, Baggins. It doesn't matter whether or not a hobby is useful, only that you have interest in it.

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Offline KatieHal

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2011, 10:34:58 AM »
Okay, we've all expressed our opinions here and that's fine, but let's not directly insult anyone's habits, people. One man's garbage is another man's gold. So call it quits on that or this thread will be locked and we'll start handing handing out temporary bans.

If you've got steam to blow off, do it elsewhere. If you've got constructive comments and discourse to pursue on the topic of KQ fangame timelines, then please do so here. I don't want to see anything but that from this point forward in this thread.

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« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 10:36:50 AM by KatieHal »

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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2011, 01:42:09 PM »
I've updated the KQ2AGDI timeline, with all or most in-game citations.

*AGDI timeline

Interestingly enough based on specific dates given in the game, and various time references, Anastasia was born in about 1668 (her parents were killed "shortly after birth"), and we know their specific deaths were 1668 off the grave stones.

We also know when Herbert was born, and when Lavidia was carrying him in relation to Cauldaur's death (d. 1646), and even Lavidia's marriage (1 year before Cauldaur's death).

The the game places approximate 40 years between the death of Cauldaur and the "present" (based on references made to the creation of the swamp after Cauldaur's death, and before the present). There swamp was formed about twenty years after Cauldaur's death, and the monks discovered a way through some twenty years before the game (so approximately 40 years).

Putting all these references together, this would make Anastasia about 18 years old in KQ2+ (although she doesn't look much older than 12, at least until she becomes a vampire).
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Klitos

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2011, 01:45:54 PM »
Take case in point, where one person jumped in angry, claiming after I pointed out difference between KQ3 and KQ3IA with the amount of time occuring in the two games and the ending. Someone came in and actually claimed, to the extent, that the developers "weren't specific to the amount of time passing between KQ3 and KQ4 in the original game", as if accusing me of somehow misinterpreting the original KQ3. To which Katie corrected said person, and went as far to say that TSL chose to follow the version of events in Sierra's KQ3. But his initial post seemed to be an attack on my observation (for who know's what reason)... When all I did was just state the obvious that both are different (no judgments were made on that stating that fact) Nor have I made judgements towards the sources, I've tried to show respect to both versions of the story (though I've compared where they differ from each other).

My initial (and only) post was not an attack on you, your observations or anything else. Nor was I angry.

And I take offense at your line that I "actually claimed ... and accusing you of somehow misinterpreting the original KQ3." What? You can't be wrong? My opinion is wrong because it comes up against what you believe? My opinion is just as valid as anyone's else in the interpretation of fantasy worlds and time lines. (Still not angry btw, just so you don't misinterpret what I'm feeling. Just a little annoyed.)

If you feel the need to try and fit my version of KQ3 into a timeline, then go right ahead. All I was trying to say is that what we wrote doesn't fit into the canon of the original game. And when we made the game, we didn't care that it didn't fit. "Some Time Later" was chosen to display ambiguity, not to quantify a specific time period.

I don't post on these forums on a regular basis but I thought that you might want to hear our reasoning for doing what we did. You obviously don't so that's fine. But trying to lock my KQ3 into a time line consistent with previous and subsequent games which IA didn't create is not going to work and as developers we considered KQ3 to be an alternate to the established canon.
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Offline Baggins

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Re: KQ Fan Game timeline variants.
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2011, 02:05:44 PM »
My initial post discussed the difference in time between the original ending of KQ3 and KQ4, and retelling in KQ3IA and KQ4. From the beginning I have stated that they are "alternates".

As you stated;

Quote
Nothing in the original KQ3 tells you how long after Alexander's return the whole hat throwing exercise was.

So you came in claiming that KQ3 (original) didn't actually show how much time passed between KQ3-KQ4. Katie corrected you pointing out what occurs in that game and that you were mistaken.

Quote
KatieHal said; As I recall, it's pretty clearly immediately after they return. End of KQ3, they enter the castle, rejoice, Graham throws the hat, and that scene repeats at the start of KQ4. Heck, Alexander's still in his Gwydion clothing right through to the end of KQ4

I gave a link video pointing to what happens in the game collaborating Katie's comments about the KQ3's ending.

BTW, Katie is right, at the end of KQ3 and beginning of KQ4 Alexander doesn't even change clothes, he's still wearing his slave outfit at the start of KQ4.

In KQ3IA he's given time to change into a blue outfit for the ceremony (obviously different than the outfit he starts out with in KQ4).

You also said I should think of them as "alternates" (which had you read my initial post you would have seen I have already been doing).

Your team chose to do something different with the game, I was discussing those differences.

I'm not trying to "fit KQ3 IA" into other timelines, it has its own alternate timeline (as it makes references to time, I've cited those quotes on the Omnipedia. It has differences with other fan timelines so it wouldn't do anybody justice if I somehow tried to merge the various fan timelines into one article (separate articles makes more sense).

The list of references from KQ3IA remains true to your game, thus using the quote, "some time later" (I do not assume that this means "a year", so I kept the events all within the same year as implied by your game).

I think from the beginning we both agree that KQ3IA isn't intended to "fit into the original canon", thus it has its own alternate timeline. I have not tried to fit it into the 'canon' timeline (it has its own). We are basically saying the same thing.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 10:55:53 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg
 

anything