KQ Fan Game timeline variants.

[KatieHal]

Klitos--did you mean, way back when it first came up, that IA's KQ3 was vague about how much time had passed between 3 and 4? It sounds like that may have been what you actually were talking about, which would certainly account for some of the confusion all around.

[Klitos]

Not at all Katie. The time between KQ3 and KQ4 is pretty set in stone. The intro to 4 is the same hat flinging ceremony as the end of KQ3. I don't see how there is any other interpretation of these events.

The only time extension so to speak in IA's KQ3 was the addition of one scene where Alexander and Graham are bonding near the woodcutters house. This was specified as "some time later" because we didn't see how the addition of even up to a couple of months would effect anything else in the series. When we put that scene in, we very much had in mind that KQ3 needed to end with the hat throwing ceremony. Alex's clothes were changed because it wasn't appropriate for the prince of the realm to be wearing slaves clothes. The throne room was changed to a VGA version of the KQ6 throne room as it seemed reasonable that the Royal Family would take this opportunity to repair their castle as well as the entire land.

If you're after an inconsistency in our version, look at the special cut scene at the end where Mordac burns down Manannan's house. That directly contradicts the KQ companion!

[Lambonius]

How come the other thread got locked?  The brief bit of silliness had passed and we were back to having a genial on-topic discussion.  Just curious.

[dark-daventry]

How come the other thread got locked?  The brief bit of silliness had passed and we were back to having a genial on-topic discussion.  Just curious.

I'm trying to figure this out myself actually. I didn't lock it, and I don't know who did or why. Besides the butt photo you posted, it was alright. Maybe we've got a phantom poster on our hands?

[Baggins]

Bizarre...

[dark-daventry]

I'm looking into it. The problem is that no admin is online that I can talk to. I don't want to unlock it until I get a reason for the locking to begin with.

[Sslaxx]

I'm looking into it. The problem is that no admin is online that I can talk to. I don't want to unlock it until I get a reason for the locking to begin with.

A fair few boards I go to have a policy of at least an admin or mod noting when they're locking a thread...

[KatieHal]

We usually do that as well. I'm starting to wonder if it didn't happen by accident, but like DD said, I want to find out if someone did have a reason for locking it first and what that was.

[dark-daventry]

Still really bizarre though. I'm starting to wonder if I  accidentally clicked on something.

[Baggins]

So I started going through KQ2RTS again, and I came across another reference to time made in the game. Neptune states that Cauldaur stopped ruling the land some 4 or 5 decades before the game (this was when he died, 1646 according to his grave stone). Lavidia's son was born shortly after Caulder's death the same year (see gravestones).

Now if this is figured in, and based on known dates for Anastasia's birth (and her parent's death, see grave stones), this would mean that Anastasia would be between 18 and 28 in the game (despite looking like a young child).  

There is also a letter that was written "over twenty years" before the story, by Llow'wof, discussing how they had found a path into thet swamp, and intended to eliminate Cauldaur and his bloodline (a reference to the night they killed Anastasia's parents?). Which would support those events having happened over twenty years before (even supporting the 5 decades reference).

Serious what race is Anastasia? Part elf or something? Some kind of biological dwarfism? That's seriously a long time to "mature".

Not at all Katie. The time between KQ3 and KQ4 is pretty set in stone. The intro to 4 is the same hat flinging ceremony as the end of KQ3. I don't see how there is any other interpretation of these events.

Well you did say before;

Nothing in the original KQ3 tells you how long after Alexander's return the whole hat throwing exercise was. Multiple sources may say that, but who is to say what is canon and what isn't? I took the Star Trek approach, if it's on screen, it's canon. If it's not, interpretation can apply.

Katie reminded you what was actually on screen in the original. I'm glad to see you are now remember how things occured in the games.

[crayauchtin]

Who cares?

You know, it's a good point. I mean, I know Baggins is looking at this from a historian point of view but... for those of us taking a more "storyteller" approach.... does the season things happen change anything in the story? I don't think it does -- unless the mountains KQ5 are less snowy during warmer times of the year, but I doubt that since they're ruled by an ice queen.

[Baggins]

You say you don't care but it sure seems you do care enough since you chose to come in and post. Me thinks though doth protest too much.

I'd say seasons matter enough to storytellers in that they use them to set the setting of the story. For example in KQ5 it is mentioned that it is spring, and later that Graham will be prepared the coming winter if he buys the cloak. This gives basic setting for the environment the protagonist is going through.

If you look at authors such as Tolkien setting the season was taken even further to incorporate elements of man vs. Environment scenarios or to just add realism to the world. Making it easier to relate to for the reader.

[Blackthorne]

Who cares?

You know, it's a good point. I mean, I know Baggins is looking at this from a historian point of view but... for those of us taking a more "storyteller" approach.... does the season things happen change anything in the story? I don't think it does -- unless the mountains KQ5 are less snowy during warmer times of the year, but I doubt that since they're ruled by an ice queen.

I agree.  Plus, who says the land of Daventry is bound to our meterological and seasonal rules anyway.  We're talking about a fantasy land where MAGIC exists.


Bt

[Baggins]

Again, seasons are used by the game designers and authors to set "setting" for their stories. You can find plenty of references to the various seasons throughout the game series and books;

Spring

Summer

Winter

Autumn/Fall

Yes surprisingly depending on the source, yes on occasion the weather is controlled through magic (see Land of Green Isles, and plot behind the novel Kingdom of Sorrow). But at other times its described as being a natural phenomena (even within a few references in Kingdom of Sorrow). It's bit against occam's razor to assume its by magic at all times. Even if it is by magic, the stories still assume that there are "four seasons" that follow the same course as real-world seasons enough to reference said seasons within the games (magic or no magic). So no seasons occur out of order of regular seasons, seasons are from 'winter', 'spring', summer', 'autumn' and back to 'winter', in that order.

In anycase, if somone changes the "season" in a remake, it would change the setting of the story from the original.

[Lambonius]

In anycase, if somone changes the "season" in a remake, it would change the setting of the story from the original.

But again, unless it changes the core events in the games plot or puzzles, it really doesn't matter at all. 

[Baggins]

It does create inconsistencies though between the two sources (and possibly others), minor inconsistencties, but still inconsistencies.

As for changing the game's plot, KQ3+ does change the plot from original KQ3. For example in KQ3+, Alexander and Rosella both have enough time between the games, to change outfits for the passing of the hat event. Alexander changes into a suit of blue, and Rosella changes into a pretty red number.

Whereas in the originals there wasn't enough time for Alexander and Rosella to change from the clothing they were wearing when they came down from the mountain after the dragon's defeat. Alexander was still wearing his slave outfit, and Rosella was still wearing her white dress with blue lining (during the reunion/hat toss).

In other words, KQ3+ doesn't fit with the details portrayed in KQ4. In movie lingo these various incongruities would be known as "continuity errors/issues" (which as people may know includes anything from objects moving/disappearing from a scene irrationally, or reversed images, etc). continuity (fiction). People have alot of fun spotting 'continuity' issues in fiction, see best continuity mistakes.

Thus KQ3+ is part of its own alternate reality that has its own series of events, not tied to the canon reality.

More directly comparing the various fan-game timelines (they don't fit on top each other, nor were they meant to) set the years when each game takes place at different points of time.

For example the AGDI timeline places KQ7 about 22 years after KQ1, the TSL timeline places KQ7 at about 24 years after KQ1, the BI timeline places KQ7 about 21 or 22 years after KQ1, and the IA timeline places KQ7 about 23 or 25 years after KQ1. I find it interesting to see how each fan team has made their games chronologically different.

[KatieHal]

Well, yes, but I don't think IA's KQ3 was trying to be part of the cannon that comes afterwards. So it seems safe to say that for them, it wasn't an issue or concern. It might be interesting to see an expansion of what followed from KQ3 and how that affects the rest of the storylines, but since they aren't doing that, it mostly comes down to an interesting narrative choice that they went with.

[Baggins]

I agree Katie, and I've never argued that they were meant to be, . From the beginning I've always stated they were alternate realities.

[Blackthorne]

Let's just say that if we remade King's Quest 4, it would be a simple matter of graphically changing the outfits Rosella and Alexander wore.  A simple.  Graphic.  Change.  Doesn't change the story one iota.  Graham still throws the hat, still has a heart attack, and Rosella off and whisks herself to Tamir to save him.


Bt

[Baggins]

Yet, it is still a change to the story. The timing of KQ4 has been changed has been mentioned ad nauseum.

What is your problem with admitting to the fact that all I've been saying is that your version of KQ3 changed the stories (or rather I've been discussing the changes)? What is your problem with admitting that they are alternate universes? What is your problem with admitting that they are different?

At least Klitos, Sinister, Katie has stated that yes the stories are different. I've stated that the stories are different. We are all saying the same thing... I don't see what your getting at.

Klitos even pointed out that they changed the story by burning down Manannan's house, so he's been saying all along that your game made changes.

Do you have a problem with comparisons being made pointing out the changes? Do you not like comparisons being made?

Seriously read the timeline; you'll notice it just uses the references made in the game itself (numbers correspond to sources), with references made in other games in the series;

==Timeline==
BW = Before Wedding, AW = After Wedding.

*80 BW
The old gnome is born.[1]
*1 or 3 BW
Graham travels through Daventry to find the three treasures of Daventry, and then becomes king (it either takes place 1 or 3 years before KQ2 according to the game manuals).

*0 AW
Graham travels to Kolyma and saves the Valanice, and marries her (specific reference to time is given in KQ5[2]).

*2 AW
Rosella and Alexander are born in Daventry.

*3 AW
Alexander, still a young baby, is kidnapped from Castle Daventry by the castle Maid, and brought to dock in Daventry and given to Manannan.[3]

The family and many of kingdom searched everywhere, but found no clues to the prince's whereabouts.

*4 AW
In the spring, Graham rode out, with the help of his people to search for clues about his son (this became a kind of tradition, he followed each spring).

*19 AW
Alexander and Rosella turn seventeen.

*20 AW
For the final time, Graham and the people of the kingdom rode out during the spring for their yearly search, for any clues regarding the whereabouts of Alexander.[4]

Alexander-Gwydion escapes from Manannan during late summer a few weeks before his eighteenth birthday.[5]

Rosella is chosen as the sacrifice to a three-headed dragon.

Over the course of a few days[6], Gwydion learned his true identity, Alexander, returned to Daventry to defeat the three-headed dragon, and saved Rosella. He returned to the castle to meet his parents outside its gates.

The Royal Family and the people of Daventry begin work on rebuilding the kingdom, there was much work to be done[7].

During this time Alexander spends time with his family, learning about the kingdom.

Alexander and Rosella turn eighteen.

Some time later, following the kingdom's repairs, Alexander and Rosella are called into the throne room where Graham throws his hat to his children. During which he is struck by a heart attack. Rosella travels to Tamir to save her father.

Some time later, Mordack travels to Llewdor to rescue his brother, and burns down his brother's house.

*21 AW
Almost a year after being saved (according to KQ5 manual[8]) Graham takes a walk through the forest of Daventry. While he is gone, Mordack appears, uses magic to steal Castle Daventry, and kidnaps the Royal Family. Graham travels to Serenia and saves his family. Alexander meets Cassima.

*22 AW
Over six months later[9], Alexander travels to the Green Isles where he rescues Cassima from Abdul Alhazred.
Rosella (age 19) and Valanice travel to Eldritch and save Etheria (Rosella is nearly twenty years old according KQ7 intro[10])

1. ↑ Narrator (KQ3IA): "This gnome looks to be at least a hundred years old."

2. ↑ Narrator (KQ5): "Twenty years have passed and King Graham and Queen Valanice have twin, teenaged children, Alexander and Rosella. Unfortunately, Alexander, as a baby, was stolen unnoticed from his crib one night. Help the boy find his way home to Daventry again."[1]

3. ↑ Narrator (KQ3IA):"For 17 years, his only company has been the animals that inhabit the yard of his cruel master...", Manannan (KQ3IA): "It's been 17 years, Mordack.", KQ3IA manual, pg 7

4. ↑ Rosella (KQ3IA): "Every spring he would ride out for months at a time, searching for any clue, anything to tell us where you were.

5. ↑ Narrator (KQ3IA):"For 17 years, his only company has been the animals that inhabit the yard of his cruel master...", "As it is now summer, the need to light a fire and cook hot food has diminished.", "There is a cheery fire crackling in the fireplace, even though it is summer.", Manannan (KQ3IA): "It's been 17 years, Mordack.", Chipmunk: "Have you got your winter's supply of nuts gathered?", KQ3IA Manual, pg

6. ↑ Alexander (KQ3IA): Highness, up to a few days ago I had always believed my name to be Gwydion.

7. ↑ Rosella (KQ3IA):"There's a lot of work to be done rebuilding the land.", Alexander (KQ3IA): "Yes father, but there is also much to do.", Narrator (KQ3IA): "As the rebuilding of Daventry continued, the citizens of the land learnt to love and respect Prince Alexander."

8. ↑ KQ5 Manual, pg, KQ8 Manual, pg

9. ↑ Cassima (KQ6): "Alexander, do not despair for me. I have been safe in this room nearly six months now."

10. ↑ Valanice (KQ7):"Now Rosella, you are nearly twenty years old, most of your friends are already married."