Author Topic: Hello  (Read 22684 times)

Offline dark-daventry

  • Phoenix Groupie
  • **********
  • Posts: 5229
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Re: Hello
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2011, 07:36:28 AM »
Directors Cut  :o

Yeah. It's been mentioned in interviews. We don't know if we're actually going to do it at this point, but it's a possibility.

This really needs to happen.  In another thread back during episode 1 it was mentioned that it would allow for all islands to be open to travel from the beginning and some of tyhe items/puzzles would get moved around a bit.  I think this would be great for the game.  It would add a layer of difficulty and it would remove the restrictions placed by the episodic format (which should have been a dead giveaway activision was working with telltale).



Our decision to go episodic actually has nothing to do with Activision or Telltale. At least not to my knowledge. It's true we got the idea based on what Telltale was doing with their games, and how successful it had been, but in the end we made the decision to go episodic because we believed, and still do, that the formula fit our game well.

As for whether or not we'll make a Director's Cut, our main focus is on finishing the last two episodes of TSL before we even begin to really plan out our future in depth. We may do a director's cut, or we may move full-time into development of Corridor 9. I can't say for sure. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

Offline chucklas

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hello
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2011, 08:54:24 AM »
The way I understood it (and of course I have no actual knowledge on this) was that part of the deal with activision to get the game released was that it was to be done as episodes.  I am probably wrong, but it wouldn't suprise me if Activision wanted to see how and episodic version of KQ would work as they were perhaps already in negotiations with telltale...or they saw you guys doing episodes and that convinced them to do business with telltale.  Either way I would not be surprised if there is a connection in some way between the 2 (not POS and Telltale or anything like that, just from activisions point of view). 
I didn't know how much I really enjoyed the Sierra Adventure Games until I played them all over again 15 years later.

Offline KatieHal

  • Designer, Public Relations Director
  • Administrator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 6561
  • Gender: Female
  • Snark Advocate
    • Phoenix Online Studios
Re: Hello
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2011, 09:11:11 AM »
The format in which the game was released was not set forth by Activision. It was our decision to break it up into the five episodes before that deal came into the picture, actually, and it was a decision inspired by the Telltale model.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Offline dark-daventry

  • Phoenix Groupie
  • **********
  • Posts: 5229
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Re: Hello
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2011, 09:17:36 AM »
The format in which the game was released was not set forth by Activision. It was our decision to break it up into the five episodes before that deal came into the picture, actually, and it was a decision inspired by the Telltale model.

Pretty much what I said...
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

Offline chucklas

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hello
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2011, 10:14:47 AM »
Fair enough.  It still makes sense that the episodic format could have contributed to Activisions deal with Telltale in some what shape or form (even if that was not ever intended by this team).
I didn't know how much I really enjoyed the Sierra Adventure Games until I played them all over again 15 years later.

Offline wilco64256

  • Omnipotent Being
  • *********
  • Posts: 3978
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hello
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2011, 12:15:53 PM »
Episodic releases are just better period as you're getting more of your game into people's hands on a more regular basis, rather than trying to do the entire thing all at once and taking longer to finish it (if you ever do).  Even huge games still "technically" do episodes via DLC or sequels that just continue the same storyline (i.e. AC Brotherhood).
Weldon Hathaway

Offline chucklas

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hello
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2011, 12:25:01 PM »
I have to disagree with you wilco on this one.  Yes, from a marketing perspective episodic games might be better, but the complete game on its own is much more enjoyable start to finish.  I imagine more people would play through a complete game then one with episodes (especially if any episode leaves a bad taste behind).  I am currently having this issue with Back to the Future.  I might not finish it just because I have not enjoyed the gameplay enough to make it worth my while.  Also, if by not making it episodic you can increase exploration and player freedom, the game stands a significant ammont to gain.  It also increases the number of problems that have to get resolved (patches to fix downloads on multiple episodes instead of one game for example).

I understand why you guys went episodic.  I don't think it adds anything other than getting chunks of the game out more quickly to fans (although the entire game possibly could have been released before the 5th episode is eventually done had you not gone that route).

When all is said and done, I would love to see a non-episodic format of TSL where I could go to the isle of the beast immediately.  Perhaps there won't be much to do, but I could explore.  I know there would be tons of work to do that, and I do not expect it, but I think it would be an improvement on the game.  Remember, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.  ;)
I didn't know how much I really enjoyed the Sierra Adventure Games until I played them all over again 15 years later.

Offline Arkillian

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1127
  • Gender: Female
  • Me Gusta
    • Deviantart
Re: Hello
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2011, 12:58:30 PM »
It's also for people with limited downloads. One huge game would take ages to download for some people, but one part isn't- although alot of people re downloaded Part 3 as a whole, that was over 1Gb in size. Imagine how big it'll be by the end of the game! I donno about you, Chucklas, but I live in a country where we are on slow broad band. We pay through the nose for it, and the internet providers have crap all competition. You guys in America are sitting on what... Broadband 3? 4? Some fancy ungodly speed? In New Zealand, we're not a backwards country by FAR, but we're just getting Broadband 2 in some areas. Some of my area is so slow that most don't buy broadband cause it's the same speed as dial up.

Please- keep it episodic, but please make it so we can patch the game instead of redownloading it. Biggest plea. I happened to get away with using up a large chunk of our internets this month, but I might not be so lucky when the game gets further along.


Offline chucklas

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hello
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2011, 01:44:01 PM »
The bandwidth thing is a fair point.  Probably the best one I have heard.  I am fortunate to be able to download the game onto a usb drive at work and bring it home.  Much faster here too. 
I didn't know how much I really enjoyed the Sierra Adventure Games until I played them all over again 15 years later.

Offline Arkillian

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1127
  • Gender: Female
  • Me Gusta
    • Deviantart
Re: Hello
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2011, 01:48:29 PM »
The bandwidth thing is a fair point.  Probably the best one I have heard.  I am fortunate to be able to download the game onto a usb drive at work and bring it home.  Much faster here too. 

*jealousy*

T.T

This is one of the few reasons I'd REALLY love to live somewhere not NZ. To fill my fangirl cravings. Otherwise, I love this country to pieces <3


Offline dark-daventry

  • Phoenix Groupie
  • **********
  • Posts: 5229
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Re: Hello
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2011, 02:23:29 PM »
Actually, we just got LTE from Verizon. Granted, it's a cell phone network, but it can download things in like six seconds flat. The internet in America isn't all good though; not every place has the fast internet. My dorm has ethernet and it's absolutely horrible. My house has WiFi and it's decent (I stress decent). Still, I stand by Phoenix's decision to go episodic. And I say that as a person, not as an employee.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

Offline Cez

  • CEO
  • Administrator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
  • Gender: Male
  • Together. We'll walk these corridors together.
    • Phoenix Online
Re: Hello
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2011, 03:19:23 PM »
I have to disagree with you wilco on this one.  Yes, from a marketing perspective episodic games might be better, but the complete game on its own is much more enjoyable start to finish.  I imagine more people would play through a complete game then one with episodes (especially if any episode leaves a bad taste behind).  I am currently having this issue with Back to the Future.  I might not finish it just because I have not enjoyed the gameplay enough to make it worth my while.  Also, if by not making it episodic you can increase exploration and player freedom, the game stands a significant ammont to gain.  It also increases the number of problems that have to get resolved (patches to fix downloads on multiple episodes instead of one game for example).

I understand why you guys went episodic.  I don't think it adds anything other than getting chunks of the game out more quickly to fans (although the entire game possibly could have been released before the 5th episode is eventually done had you not gone that route).

When all is said and done, I would love to see a non-episodic format of TSL where I could go to the isle of the beast immediately.  Perhaps there won't be much to do, but I could explore.  I know there would be tons of work to do that, and I do not expect it, but I think it would be an improvement on the game.  Remember, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.  ;)

Actually, you would have gotten a far lesser game if we had released it in one go. It would have been much shorter for one, since the content we added since we decided to turn it episodic is huge.

With every release we get a lot of feedback, which allows us to polish further new releases by taking in consideration what fans want. Episode 3 was originally about 1/3 of what the final release was in terms of content. We added all the new puzzle content (guillotine, dogs, tower, chessboard puzzle, zodiac puzzle, saving the butterfly, etc) because people wanted more difficult puzzles.

It makes not only for better marketing as you mentioned (since it keeps the game in the known for the full length of production),, but it also makes it a lot much easier to handle from a production standpoint. It puts harder deadlines on smaller chunks, which allows to focus in what really matters instead of drifting and polishing too many sections for too long. Then, we put that chunk away and call it good, and forget about it, and move to the next one.

And yes, originally, you could go right away to the Isle of the Beast. That format for the game is going to be available in the Director's Cut, whenever we decide to release it.  
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 03:25:38 PM by Cez »


Cesar Bittar
CEO
Phoenix Online
cesar.bittar@postudios.com

Offline chucklas

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hello
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2011, 03:25:56 PM »

And yes, originally, you could go right away to the Isle of the Beast. That format for the game is going to be available in the Director's Cut, whenever we decide to release it.  

Thanks for the post Cez.  I guess with the added content and the eventual directors cut (which it appears you just confirmed), we have the best of both worlds.  :)
I didn't know how much I really enjoyed the Sierra Adventure Games until I played them all over again 15 years later.

Offline Arkillian

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1127
  • Gender: Female
  • Me Gusta
    • Deviantart
Re: Hello
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2011, 04:14:00 PM »
Ah- improvement is also another really good reason. You guys learnt alot from these first 3 releases, so Episode 4 should be even better for it :) What kind of issues held up Episode 3 in any case? Out of curiousity. Was it man power? Debugging? Hours capable of giving to the project? Or was it physically too short of a deadline full stop?

IIf you don't mind me asking


Offline Cez

  • CEO
  • Administrator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
  • Gender: Male
  • Together. We'll walk these corridors together.
    • Phoenix Online
Re: Hello
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2011, 07:14:57 PM »
It was a beast!

For example, the tower sequence didn't exist at all. All those animations were begun in november, and we didn't foresee a lot of things like death sequences that were absolutely needed, etc. Lots of things to figure out, the tower was what required the most attention.

The Chessboard was another very heavy scripting section, because of all the intricacy of that puzzle. The Forest Entrance was very heavy because originally we also had the last version of the guardian. We included the banshee and the black Morrigan.

So it was mostly all the stuff we added that held us, and honestly the man powers played a big role, yes. We were doing alright with the animations, but Richard is the guy that puts the game together for the most part. Weldon and myself had to learn how to export animations and put them in the game because it was so much to do for Rich, but there were so many animations that needed such a technical expertise, that only Rich could deal with them. For the next episodes, the same way we brought an animation team of 20+ people, now we want to bring it a stronger technical team that can help us. Unfortunately TSL is built on such archaic tools that it's really hard to spread this knowledge. You need a lot of patience and dedication to make things look and feel right. And at this point, revamping the tools would take time we don't have and could cause a myriad of problems.

So it's a lot combined. Initially we didn't want to announce a release date. I tried to get away from that but marketing wanted one. On the good side, it was that release date that pushed us so hard to only slip the weeks we did and not more than that. Otherwise, we wouldn't have put so many endless nights into making it work and we wouldn't be close to release it yet. 


Cesar Bittar
CEO
Phoenix Online
cesar.bittar@postudios.com

Offline daventry

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 905
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hello
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2011, 12:26:54 AM »
Out of curiosity, why am i still carrying the Invisibility Cloak when it doesent work anymore.

Why is there a Tailer Shop with No Tailor at the Market.

Offline Arkillian

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1127
  • Gender: Female
  • Me Gusta
    • Deviantart
Re: Hello
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2011, 01:25:35 AM »
You have a few more episodes to go. They'll likely pop up then


Offline daventry

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 905
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hello
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2011, 01:52:59 AM »
It must be some Tailor to trust the Villaige not to Steal his Clothes, no need to lock up the place :p

Offline Arkillian

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1127
  • Gender: Female
  • Me Gusta
    • Deviantart
Re: Hello
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2011, 01:58:28 AM »
I think in a little town like theirs, someone would notice, but hey. Perhaps in the directors cut there will be someone there.


Offline dark-daventry

  • Phoenix Groupie
  • **********
  • Posts: 5229
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Re: Hello
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2011, 11:24:49 AM »
I think in a little town like theirs, someone would notice, but hey. Perhaps in the directors cut there will be someone there.

Or maybe an upcoming episode...  ;)
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan
 

anything