Author Topic: I don't care...:King's Quest  (Read 24533 times)

Offline Baggins

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2011, 09:24:03 PM »
Nice <sarcasm>, child porn...  ::)
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2011, 09:25:17 PM »
I'm playing through the IA KQ3 again...

You know I don't care so much for the timer in the game... its absolutely worthless. It's not there to add a challenge, as there is no fear or danger of running out of time (since you don't have to climb back up the mountain everytime you go down the mountain). It's easy to pick up items, so very little time is actually wasted. You can finish every spell during Manannan's first trip.

But then you have to wait something like an hour or two for Manannan to leave on his second trip and return to get the secret cutscene ... You can't even task switch to allow the timer run in the background (the game pauses if you task switch).

It's all a waste of time, and the only thing in the game I consider poor design choice.

Yeah, I suppose that element is missing when you don't have the keyboard puzzles to eat your time.   The timer is there, though, mainly because it was in the original.   I would go back and redesign some things, like that, if I could.  But that's how we made it, and it works.


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Offline Baggins

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2011, 09:35:03 PM »
I think it would have been at least better, if the game had more interactive spell system like the version seen in KQ2+ seen in the enchanter's cave.

Where you have to manually follow the spells precisely, in order, and use the tools on the table. This would have possibly "eaten" more of the time, making the timer have some purpose.

I actually liked that in KQ6 where you basically had to 2-3 steps to actually cast the game's three spells. 1. find ingredients (for some collect ingredients in order), follow each spell's special directions, and finally cast the spell.

In anycase, I wonder how KQ3R will handle it.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 09:38:23 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Lambonius

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2011, 09:37:59 PM »
I think it would have been at least better, if the game had more interactive spell system like the version seen in KQ2+ seen in the enchanter's cave.

Where you have to manually follow the spells precisely, in order, and use the tools on the table. This would have possibly "eaten" more of the time, making the timer have some purpose.

I actually liked that in KQ6 where you basically had to 2-3 steps to actually cast the game's three spells. 1. find ingredients (for some collect ingredients in order), follow each spell's special directions, and finally cast the spell.

Yeah, we actually agree with this for the most part, especially in hindsight.  It's something we've all discussed behind the scenes.  If we ever go back and revamp our version, we'll probably revamp the spell system in exactly that manner.

Offline Baggins

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2011, 09:46:53 PM »
On a related note, as I recall, in the original, the game timer paused any time you typed stuff on some versions, and at least paused when typing in a spell step (time would pass between each step). Most of the time was eaten up by climbing up the mountain, and moving between screens/exploring. You can't underestimate the mountain for its time sink.

But ya I found that timer in the original added thrill and surprises to the game. It added a bit of challenge to the game.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 09:50:04 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2011, 09:49:26 PM »
Yeah, the spell system was something we agonized over during the production of our KQ3.  We didn't quite know how to handle it - we had several ideas, and prototypes programmed.  We knew we wanted to change it, because it was essentially just copy protection.  In the end, I think we just got frustrated, ran out of time, and said "Let's make it idiot proof!"  and made it the easiest we could.  

I think back on the team we were then - this was about 6 years ago now!  We were really fumbling our way through making it.  Just trying to get ourselves across the finish line.  Being able to look back six year really changes your point of view, in regards to design and programing, for sure.  I mean, imagine how they looked back at KQI in 1990.... 6 years before that was 1984.... heh, when KQI first came out.

Like Lambonius said, it's something we've talked about.  If we do an update to the game, that's one thing we would probably change.  


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Offline Lambonius

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2011, 09:52:23 PM »
The standard AGI walk speed was also MUCH slower than the "VGA" walk speed in any of the remade versions of the games.

Offline Baggins

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2011, 09:54:17 PM »
Have you ever tried out the KQ3+: An Heir Raising Tale demo (I think it was being designed around the same time you started your game)? That game basically did away with timers (except in short term events). The puzzles were more linear, with scripted events. I've always found that to be a pretty interesting take on the game, and its a shame it was never completed.

Quote
The standard AGI walk speed was also MUCH slower than the "VGA" walk speed in any of the remade versions of the games.
That's true, that also ate time. As did the fact you had to basically walk up to an item before you could pick it up. There was no auto-walk.

In addition I think the timer runs faster in the original (at least on later machines). A minute in the game is less than 60 seconds.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 09:56:12 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2011, 07:47:44 AM »
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Offline Enchantermon

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2011, 08:01:27 AM »
I have unlocked this thread. We've determined that it was an accidental lock. We apologize for the inconvenience.
It's cool; thanks. :)
In addition I think the timer runs faster in the original (at least on later machines). A minute in the game is less than 60 seconds.
Are you talking about faster DOS machines or the machines of today running the game in DOSBox? I ask because when I did my LP, I timed the clock and it was running at the same speed as normal time.
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline atec123

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2011, 08:04:45 AM »
Quote
Are you talking about faster DOS machines or the machines of today running the game in DOSBox? I ask because when I did my LP, I timed the clock and it was running at the same speed as normal time.
in dosbox?

I haven't played the original KQ3 actually, so IDK.  but dosbox can adjust the speeds and stuff so if it was too fast, you could fix it pretty easily.
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Offline Enchantermon

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2011, 09:53:02 AM »
in dosbox?
Yup.
I'm actually kind of feeling the urge to slap in on my old DOS machine and see if the clock is still the same speed.
Hmm...where did I put all those floppies.....
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline MusicallyInspired

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2011, 10:17:48 AM »
There's two ways AGI and SCI games are timed. There is the number of CPU cycles per second and then just real-time seconds. Both are utilized. Usually game-specific events are programmed for real-time no matter what the game speed is set to. The game speed is set by cpu cycles per second. Later SCI1 games started to time events based on CPU cycles instead while others were based on real time and this broke the game for newer computers which called for CPU slowdown utilities, DOSBox, and NewRisingSun's script-based timer patches. AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 10:20:00 AM by MusicallyInspired »

Offline atec123

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2011, 10:23:09 AM »
There's two ways AGI and SCI games are timed. There is the number of CPU cycles per second and then just real-time seconds. Both are utilized. Usually game-specific events are programmed for real-time no matter what the game speed is set to. The game speed is set by cpu cycles per second. Later SCI1 games started to time events based on CPU cycles instead while others were based on real time and this broke the game for newer computers which called for CPU slowdown utilities, DOSBox, and NewRisingSun's script-based timer patches. AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
ahh.... that explains the infamous firecracker glitch in KQ7.  Why did they change it to cpu cycles when real seconds worked better?
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Offline Enchantermon

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2011, 10:30:38 AM »
AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
This is a very interesting statement, because I just played Gold Rush! for IA's contest and discovered that if you set the game speed to anything higher than Normal, the in-game clock stops running and time-triggered events will not occur. If the clock was using real-time, this shouldn't happen. However, if it was using CPU cycles, wouldn't changing the game speed make the clock run faster? Or am I misunderstanding things?
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline snabbott

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2011, 10:39:40 AM »
There's two ways AGI and SCI games are timed. There is the number of CPU cycles per second and then just real-time seconds. Both are utilized. Usually game-specific events are programmed for real-time no matter what the game speed is set to. The game speed is set by cpu cycles per second. Later SCI1 games started to time events based on CPU cycles instead while others were based on real time and this broke the game for newer computers which called for CPU slowdown utilities, DOSBox, and NewRisingSun's script-based timer patches. AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
ahh.... that explains the infamous firecracker glitch in KQ7.  Why did they change it to cpu cycles when real seconds worked better?
Yeah, I've wondered that, too. Did they not think computers would get much faster? ???

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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2011, 10:46:06 AM »
There's two ways AGI and SCI games are timed. There is the number of CPU cycles per second and then just real-time seconds. Both are utilized. Usually game-specific events are programmed for real-time no matter what the game speed is set to. The game speed is set by cpu cycles per second. Later SCI1 games started to time events based on CPU cycles instead while others were based on real time and this broke the game for newer computers which called for CPU slowdown utilities, DOSBox, and NewRisingSun's script-based timer patches. AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
ahh.... that explains the infamous firecracker glitch in KQ7.  Why did they change it to cpu cycles when real seconds worked better?
Yeah, I've wondered that, too. Did they not think computers would get much faster? ???

Apparently not. And to think computers are still set to improve in speed down the line.
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Offline Deloria

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2011, 10:56:59 AM »
I have unlocked this thread. We've determined that it was an accidental lock. We apologize for the inconvenience.
I think we all know you just enjoy using your mod powers "by accident". ;)
 
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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2011, 11:02:03 AM »
I have unlocked this thread. We've determined that it was an accidental lock. We apologize for the inconvenience.
I think we all know you just enjoy using your mod powers "by accident". ;)

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Offline MusicallyInspired

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Re: I don't care...:King's Quest
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2011, 11:24:47 AM »
AGI games never had this problem, though. They're programmed for real-time seconds not CPU cycles.
This is a very interesting statement, because I just played Gold Rush! for IA's contest and discovered that if you set the game speed to anything higher than Normal, the in-game clock stops running and time-triggered events will not occur. If the clock was using real-time, this shouldn't happen. However, if it was using CPU cycles, wouldn't changing the game speed make the clock run faster? Or am I misunderstanding things?

That's also a very interesting statement because that only happens with the cracked version.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 11:42:41 AM by MusicallyInspired »