You guys have done an amazing job. Will telltale games and activision consult with you guys on their release of the game as you are the experts....or maybe a joint venture with you guys aswell......just wondering how this is going to play out
We aren't involved in the deal made between Activision and Telltale--we have a fan license to make our game, that's all. And the news about Telltale doesn't affect our agreement, either, we'll still be completing TSL. :)
Quote from: KatieHal on February 19, 2011, 02:58:07 PM
We aren't involved in the deal made between Activision and Telltale--we have a fan license to make our game, that's all. And the news about Telltale doesn't affect our agreement, either, we'll still be completing TSL. :)
http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=3737601
>_>
Quote from: LightWarrior on February 22, 2011, 07:36:16 PM
Quote from: KatieHal on February 19, 2011, 02:58:07 PM
We aren't involved in the deal made between Activision and Telltale--we have a fan license to make our game, that's all. And the news about Telltale doesn't affect our agreement, either, we'll still be completing TSL. :)
http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=3737601
>_>
Erm....?
Quote from: KatieHal on February 19, 2011, 02:58:07 PM
We aren't involved in the deal made between Activision and Telltale--we have a fan license to make our game, that's all. And the news about Telltale doesn't affect our agreement, either, we'll still be completing TSL. :)
Yeah, and that's a good thing too, completing 3 episodes but not the remaining 2. That would be a disaster.
No offense but fan games and official games need to remain seperate. I want telltales original vision to be pure and true to the originals (and if not should be their own vision), rather than FanTasies.
I agree with Baggins. I like TSL, but it, along with the rest of the fan canon, should strictly be thought of as separate.
Quote from: kindofdoon on February 24, 2011, 06:54:10 AM
I agree with Baggins. I like TSL, but it, along with the rest of the fan canon, should strictly be thought of as separate.
That highly depends on whether TellTale's game(s?) are "worth it". Will they be true to the series? To the essence of King's Quest? If not, I'll live in my imaginary world in which TSL is the real point of closure for the royal family.
I could never accept TSL as a direct continuation of the official series. It takes too many liberties from facts and intent made in previous games. However it's not near to the extent made by the various fan remakes.
That said TSL is enjoyable game and interesting reinterpretation of the universe in much the same way as the other fan games.
I haven't seen any fact conflicts as of yet. ? As for divergence from original intent, as long as the story retains the essence of the series, is coherent and cohesive with the rest of the series, and ties up the major loose ends, I'd be totally pleased. I also agree that TSL takes far less liberties than some of the fan remakes. e.g., Romancing the Throne - still good, but seemed to alter the game and sub-plot for no good reason other than that they could.
There are definitely fact divergences (changes of facts, "liberties", or however you want to describe it), but this is not the place to go through them all. I've categorized quite a few differences on the Omnipedia, if you are interested. But you'll have to go topic by topic to see them. Sometimes they are differences in story, sometimes in geography, sometimes in visual appearance, among other things.
But to be fair there are fact divergences between the official games as well (of various sorts). I've categorized those as well. But they don't go as far as change facts/reinterpret facts such as for example, swimming in Green Isles ocean occurs in TSL's universe, where that was said to be impossible in KQ6 material, among other things. ...or that KQ6 states that the Lord of the Dead is mateless/no companionship, yet TSL states that he has been with Persephone for centuries for example.
Another one that's a major divergence, is as of yet, as far as we know, Manannan had no intent to kill Alexander, as was his standard MO for his past slaves.
I think one of the things that made official games avoid inconsistencies at least for the most part, was probably because they avoided reusing the same areas each game. Each game created new area, for the most part stand alone to previous games. So there were few things that would cause inconsistencies between the games. Where it happened generally happened in Daventry, which was an area shared between the games.
I think maybe the problem with TSL (and I stress this is only my opinion) is it makes things overly complicated, trying to tie things together, as if there were less than six degrees of separation on every detail... It has in essence tried to tie up "loose ends" of its own perception, where there really wasn't a true "loose end" in the official series. So some of it comes off seeming like a bad fan fiction in my opinion, and a few mary sue/stus. As opposed to following a more simplistic/occam's razor approach to story telling.
Maybe its just not my taste, and its something appreciated by others.
That being said, I like the artwork for the most part, I find the game fun, and I find myself curious as to what direction they will take things.
Quote from: mythosopher on February 28, 2011, 04:19:43 PM
as long as the story retains the essence of the series...
Devils advocate: Many would (and do) argue that it has already lost it.
To be fair:
Alexander was clearly meant to be an exception to Manannan's usual rule of killing his slave. I guess I don't see why that's an inconsistency? He wasn't just another one of Manannan's slaves, but had a particular purpose to serve.
The story of Persephone was just that, a story. Many myths do not correlate with each other, and I would actually be worried if that wasn't so for the World of Daventry. While the lack of mate is a fact, the story of Persephone could continue as a well-known and long-told, old wives' tale.
And I see your point on "too complex" try to tie everything up. You end up with knots. But (and I equally stress this is my personal opinion and taste), I prefer a sense of definite closure. Not necessarily an end-all, but at least an end.
Quote from: mythosopher on February 28, 2011, 09:40:00 PM
I prefer a sense of definite closure. Not necessarily an end-all, but at least an end.
I'm afraid I simply don't understand why people thought the King's Quest series didn't have a proper ending. Yeah, Mask of Eternity wasn't your traditional point and click King's Quest game, but with its release, the series story HAD come completely full circle. Connor is the next Graham. Graham has become King Edward. Alexander and Rosella each became monarchs of their own new kingdoms. It's VERY cut and dry.
Quote from: Lambonius on February 28, 2011, 09:50:33 PM
Quote from: mythosopher on February 28, 2011, 09:40:00 PM
I prefer a sense of definite closure. Not necessarily an end-all, but at least an end.
I'm afraid I simply don't understand why people thought the King's Quest series didn't have a proper ending. Yeah, Mask of Eternity wasn't your traditional point and click King's Quest game, but with its release, the series story HAD come completely full circle. Connor is the next Graham. Graham has become King Edward. Alexander and Rosella each became monarchs of their own new kingdoms. It's VERY cut and dry.
never thought of it that way...
QuoteAlexander was clearly meant to be an exception to Manannan's usual rule of killing his slave.
Except in the original KQ3 Alexander wasn't 'special' he was just another slave. The manual and narration in KQ3 made that quite clear, as did later material in later manuals and ingame summaries. Its also a big part of one of the games bad endings if you fail to defeat the wizard on time. You are confusing complexity added by TSL as if it was part of the original game, when it's not.
Some of the TSL developers have stated they chosen to take liberties with the original story and ignore original intent for the sake of their story (Alexander's role under Manannan is one of them). Like I said I'm more a fan of purity of original intent (what was actually shown, said or appears in the official games/documentation, etc).
I don't know if you have played the KQ3 remakes, you'll notice those team members chose to stick closer to the original intent (at least on this subject, if though changing alot of other material), in that it's explained that Manannan intends to kill Alexander, and move onto find his next slave. KQ3IA, went as far to say Manannan planned to send the body back to his family to cause them additional misery, and its said in KQ3R, that he was going on his journies in search of his next slave. At one point Manannan mentions he has plans for Alexander on his 18th birthday, which you can deduce by the vials of hair and other details found in Manannan's house. So even those developers went with the original intent, that he wasn't particularly 'special', just one in a long line of slaves which were to be exterminated when they turned eighteen.
I'm also not that big a fan of the;
[spoiler]Luke, I'm your father moments in Episode 3, in which its said that Alexander is Manannan's grandson, and Valanice is his daughter.[/spoiler] That's overly complicated and convoluted for my tastes. Way too much 'six degrees of separation'.
There are the little things like the appearance of the crystal tower looks nothing like its appearance in KQ2.
QuoteAlexander and Rosella each became monarchs of their own new kingdoms.
Actually Rosella wasn't the new monarch of Etheria, and if she was to be it could be a very long time. Remember the Etherians are demigods, Immortals. Because of that it's very unlikely that Oberan and Titania would ever pass on the monarchy. Edgar would likely have time to rule Daventry for a lifetime before he'd ever have to step into position in Etheria. That would only be the case if something killed his parents.
BTW, there actually is an indirect reference to Rosella in KQ8, if you listen to the context of Ugly Beast's insight on Castle Daventry; she mentions that Connor needs to get inside and "rescue Graham's family". This suggests he's not only Rescuing Valanice, but also Rosella as well. Actually originally at one point during development, apparently they were going to let Connor explore Castle, and he would have found Rosella in stone. But it was decided that aspect was too much for the game, since they apparently didn't have any puzzles planned for the castle beyond what was left in the game.
Actually Roberta hinted at had she continued KQ9, she might have went with a 'love triangle' plot with Edgar and Connor competing for Rosella's affection.
Otherwise, I do agree with Lambonius. It is a full circle story. Actually, what we got was kind of Graham's early years, and rise to Knighthood. A story we never saw in the original game. In KQ1 we got the point where Graham was already a knight. It's telling that Graham and Connor both end up sharing the same title, "Sir Knight" by the end of of MOE (see KQ1SCI for Graham receiving that title by those he helps).
I suppose what is annoying about MOE, was as you learn from the Oracle of the Tree in the game, that Connor was destined to return to Daventry following the restoration of the Mask. But the ending never shows this. According to Mark Seibert they originally had plans to have an extended ending, where apparently Connor would have stood before Graham, and received the Knighthood officially, and been praised for his actions. They were forced to cut that out, when upper management pushed for the game's early release. The game actually had seen a couple of delays at that point, and it was way behind schedule into its 3rd year of development (actually the maxium time of development for the previous games in the series).
Totally agree with most of the posts in this thread. There were never really any "Loose Ends" to tie up. I would even go as far as to say that if the name Shadrack had not appeared in KQ6, TSL would really have no justification. It was cool to see someone take a crack at taking KQ into 3D as an adventure, but episode 3 was a real put off. As said earlier, the "everything is connected in a super mysterious way" thing gets ridiculous when it turns out everyone is related to everyone and there is nothing that 5 flashbacks can't tuck into the back story.
And like everyone else is saying, hopefully telltale keeps to the "mood" of the originals. I just played the KQ3 remake and can embrace that game fully. Simple, challenging, and it does not constantly try to make jokes, particularly in narration. It had some minor changes, I think all for the better, but kept the feel right. I would say call those guys at IA up if telltale want "KQ experts".
Which KQ3 remake did you just play? The newest one is from AGDI, though IA also did one a while ago. They're both quite good in my opinion.
Quote from: wilco64256 on March 15, 2011, 09:49:59 PM
Which KQ3 remake did you just play? The newest one is from AGDI, though IA also did one a while ago. They're both quite good in my opinion.
Quote from: sebpod on March 15, 2011, 09:36:12 PMI would say call those guys at IA up if telltale want "KQ experts".
AGDI's remakes are just as looked down upon for "being unfaithful" as TSL is. It sorely makes me want to make a fangame (or remake) just to honk off the hardcore fans.
I've played both, but I was talking about the agdi one that just came out (KQ3 redux). I will say that the whole "father" business was not needed, but it really didn't change the game overall. You could cut out those parts and it would be fine. Again, they improved upon the original in many ways. They added the story of past slaves into items found in the game so you could unravel your expected fate in game, rather than in the manual. The spell system was better too. I think the voice acting made a huge impact in it, because if I was going to nit pick, I would say some of the animation felt a little out of place, but was more than compensated by the vocie work.
Back to your point though, you are right, agdi did some pretty wacky things with kq2. The kq1 remake was pretty faithful though if I recall correctly. That being said I am also terrified of telltale's attempt since they are all former lucas arts people and in my experience games are not their forte.
Quote from: Sslaxx on March 16, 2011, 08:20:21 AM
AGDI's remakes are just as looked down upon for "being unfaithful" as TSL is. It sorely makes me want to make a fangame (or remake) just to honk off the hardcore fans.
Unfaithful in the addition of needless backstory? Yes.
Unfaithful in deviating wildly from the established tone of the series? Absolutely not.
Also, LOL at IA being seen as the fan community "KQ experts." That gave me a smile.
I like the added plot elements honestly. I'd rather play an expanded plot than just a prettified version of the games.
Quote from: dark-daventry on March 16, 2011, 01:38:46 PM
I like the added plot elements honestly. I'd rather play an expanded plot than just a prettified version of the games.
Well...let me clarify. I love the AGDI games, and I love SOME of the additions. Most of the expanded plot of KQ3Redux was great. The Father bits that attempt to link all the characters of the series together with one convenient "1,000 year old prophecy" explanation are what make me roll my eyes.
But the fleshing out of characters and weaving of the existing backstory of the game (that was present in the original manual) into the game itself via the previous Gwydion's diary was a stroke of genius. I even liked the extended pirate ship and treasure island bits.
All that said, I like KQ3Redux MUCH more than KQ2+, but I enjoy KQ2+ for what it is. Again, most of the plot and puzzle additions I like--I just don't like the whole "everything was always linked together" overarching conspiracy B.S.
Quote from: sebpod on March 15, 2011, 09:36:12 PM
I would say call those guys at IA up if telltale want "KQ experts".
Seconded.
I know that, simply, the members of my team at IA are fans of King's Quest, pure and simple. Most of us grew up in the late 80's and early 90's playing these games. They were a part of our development as youths, and we carry that into adulthood. There's a lot of love for the games, and I think it reflects in our work.
Bt
I like to think fans are the real experts of any game or property, but maybe that's just me.
Quote from: dark-daventry on March 16, 2011, 06:28:51 PM
I like to think fans are the real experts of any game or property, but maybe that's just me.
You'd think, but not always. In fandom, the fans tend to focus in on one part or aspect they like - it's rare that they have an over-reaching insight into the whole of something. Often something people like has many different facets - including elements they don't care for. As an expert, you can't take what you like and disregard the rest. Fans often do that.
Bt
Totally agree with the above comment. I think that KQ6 was the best of them (from forums I believe I'm not the only one) and maybe that drove the focus of TSL, a want for more KQ6, but ultimately not being KQ6. As said above, fans have a comfort zone that some developers are either able to leave, or even better, make it grow in size to include completely new ideas.
Ok, first of all, I LOVE TSL.
My primary experience of King's Quest as a kid was 4,5, and 6. 6 was a whole world for me. I wanted (still do) the Green Isles to be real. The History of the Green Isles about visitors needing to respect the land and its wonders just hit so close to real life, as if it was a real place one could only get to using the computer. I never quite felt that way about Daventry or any of the other lands.
I think so much of the call for 'closure' stems from the fact that none of us want the adventures of the royal family to be over. KQ2+ and TSL provide ways for them to live on. I realize that TSL isn't canon, but keeping the game at that distance also allows me to say, "well this isn't canon so its not all over" when TSL ends. We all want Graham and company to live on forever, and its up to us, those of us who played the orginal KQ as kids, to keep it alive for future generations.
Quote from: Blackthorne on March 16, 2011, 06:39:26 PM
You'd think, but not always. In fandom, the fans tend to focus in on one part or aspect they like - it's rare that they have an over-reaching insight into the whole of something. Often something people like has many different facets - including elements they don't care for. As an expert, you can't take what you like and disregard the rest. Fans often do that.
Bt
This is an excellent statement, and is reflective of our design philosophy at IA. We've gone out of our way in our current games (a little less so in KQ3VGA) to include bits which are loving homages even to the parts of games that are almost universally reviled by most "fans," like winding mountain paths and even light trial and error sequences (emphasis on LIGHT.) I think when KQ fans play some of those moments in KOS, for example, they will receive them in the spirit intended, and not balk at the inclusion of so-called "dated" design elements. We really have always wanted to present the most complete homage to classic Sierra gaming as possible, "warts and all," and I think that will fully come across to people when they play SQ2 and (eventually) KOS. We are intently focused on recapturing the experience of playing a golden age Sierra game for the first time, with all the joys, surprises, and even momentary frustrations that go along with it. If it ain't broke...
Are you saying there will be dead ends in KOS?
Quote from: Rado on March 21, 2011, 05:13:23 PM
Are you saying there will be dead ends in KOS?
I didn't necessarily say that. I'm just saying it will replicate the experience of an old school Sierra game. Actions will have consequences, so save early, save often. ;)
I really enjoyed charting the desert in KQ5, so that's fine by me ;)
Quote from: Lambonius on March 21, 2011, 05:21:05 PM
Quote from: Rado on March 21, 2011, 05:13:23 PM
Are you saying there will be dead ends in KOS?
I didn't necessarily say that. I'm just saying it will replicate the experience of an old school Sierra game. Actions will have consequences, so save early, save often. ;)
I think Save Early Save, Save Often is good advice for just about ANY game. Maybe that's just me though.
Quote from: dark-daventry on March 21, 2011, 07:18:06 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on March 21, 2011, 05:21:05 PM
Quote from: Rado on March 21, 2011, 05:13:23 PM
Are you saying there will be dead ends in KOS?
I didn't necessarily say that. I'm just saying it will replicate the experience of an old school Sierra game. Actions will have consequences, so save early, save often. ;)
I think Save Early Save, Save Often is good advice for just about ANY game. Maybe that's just me though.
Not really...who needs it when there's always auto-save or retry?
Quote from: MusicallyInspired on March 21, 2011, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: dark-daventry on March 21, 2011, 07:18:06 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on March 21, 2011, 05:21:05 PM
Quote from: Rado on March 21, 2011, 05:13:23 PM
Are you saying there will be dead ends in KOS?
I didn't necessarily say that. I'm just saying it will replicate the experience of an old school Sierra game. Actions will have consequences, so save early, save often. ;)
I think Save Early Save, Save Often is good advice for just about ANY game. Maybe that's just me though.
Not really...who needs it when there's always auto-save or retry?
Good point. But I still save manually whenever possible regardless. Autosave is great, but can never truly replace saving anywhere, especially in an adventure game.
Yeah - I like to have multiple saved games so that I can go back to specific points in the game.
Quote from: MusicallyInspired on March 21, 2011, 07:19:04 PM
Not really...who needs it when there's always auto-save or retry?
I'm fairly certain those are two features that will never ever end up in an IA game, and I'm proud of that.
Quote from: snabbott on March 21, 2011, 07:39:26 PM
Yeah - I like to have multiple saved games so that I can go back to specific points in the game.
That's my strategy in games that support it, particularly adventure games. In case I screw up somewhere, I tend to make a new save file right before/after major events. It's come in handy for me on several occasions. I also use such a method as a "bookmark" type system for funny events. Like, in Zork: Grand Inquisitor, I made a save file specifically for the hades courtesy phone. That thing still cracks me up to this day. That way, I don't have to replay the game just to get to that one point. It works rather well for me, I must say.
I save often for two reasons:
#1) So I can show my friends cool scenes (ex. the magnat)
#2) In case the game crashes.
Quote from: akkratte on March 22, 2011, 09:07:59 AM
I save often for two reasons:
#1) So I can show my friends cool scenes (ex. the magnat)
#2) In case the game crashes.
Those are pretty much my reasons right there!
Quote from: dark-daventry on March 22, 2011, 02:47:43 PM
Quote from: akkratte on March 22, 2011, 09:07:59 AM
I save often for two reasons:
#1) So I can show my friends cool scenes (ex. the magnat)
#2) In case the game crashes.
Those are pretty much my reasons right there!
What if the game crashes because you tried to save. :o
Quote from: drunkenmonkey on March 22, 2011, 02:50:55 PM
Quote from: dark-daventry on March 22, 2011, 02:47:43 PM
Quote from: akkratte on March 22, 2011, 09:07:59 AM
I save often for two reasons:
#1) So I can show my friends cool scenes (ex. the magnat)
#2) In case the game crashes.
Those are pretty much my reasons right there!
What if the game crashes because you tried to save. :o
Well, then... I guess we're screwed XD
Quote from: akkratte on March 22, 2011, 09:07:59 AM
I save often for two reasons:
#1) So I can show my friends cool scenes (ex. the magnat)
#2) In case the game crashes.
#2 is especially crucial when playing Episode 3. :P
This just in! Telltale's new King's Quest got its first look today! They released one shot of the new Sir Graham (or Lady Graham, in this case. Graham's now a woman!). And it looks like they're taking the classic look by making it in VGA! Talk about pleasing the fans! They released this 2D sprite and a video feature (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0):
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j289/thesporkman/ladygraham2.png)
Dangit! That spite is nice though; did you make it?
MY GOD ITS GOT NO FACE!! :o
I did not make it. A fan on the Telltale forums threw it in the fanart thread.
GRAHAM'S GONE CROSS-GENDERED! XD Still strange that there's no face. For a minute I thought this was actually from TellTale, not a fan lol.
lol me too..got my hopes up there for a second! But it still looks good though :)
Quote from: dark-daventry on April 01, 2011, 11:56:01 AMStill strange that there's no face.
Not as strange as the several AGI games with characters that have faces but no noses.
Quote from: Enchantermon on April 01, 2011, 05:48:31 PM
Quote from: dark-daventry on April 01, 2011, 11:56:01 AMStill strange that there's no face.
Not as strange as the several AGI games with characters that have faces but no noses.
Didn't you know? Nose-less characters are all the rage now! In fact, POStudios' next game will have a noseless character! XD
Oh noes! *ba-dum tish*
We don't have a "smell" icon = our characters don't need noses.
Quote from: wilco64256 on April 01, 2011, 10:55:34 PM
We don't have a "smell" icon = our characters don't need noses.
XD Weldon, not many games have a smell icon to begin with. The only one I can think of off the top of my head would be SQ.
SQ4 and SQ1VGA, to be precise.
/SQ fanboy mode
Quote from: MusicallyInspired on April 01, 2011, 11:03:33 PM
SQ4 and SQ1VGA, to be precise.
/SQ fanboy mode
Thank you. I wasn't sure which ones specifically had one, but I knew at least one of them did.
Telltale are giving away back to the future the game episode 1, for those of you who haven't played it.
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/blogs/id-786
Quote from: drunkenmonkey on April 02, 2011, 11:34:34 AM
Telltale are giving away back to the future the game episode 1, for those of you who haven't played it.
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/blogs/id-786
I already got episode 1 free of charge... Back in February, no less.
Oh, awesome! That is good marketing. I'll have to get this when I get back to my PC.
Quote from: kindofdoon on April 02, 2011, 09:27:08 PM
Oh, awesome! That is good marketing. I'll have to get this when I get back to my PC.
Seriously. Now I want the next one :P
Quote from: drunkenmonkey on April 02, 2011, 11:34:34 AMTelltale are giving away back to the future the game episode 1, for those of you who haven't played it.
How unfair! The people who bought it are getting cheated, I tell you! Cheated!
:P
Quote from: Enchantermon on April 03, 2011, 12:38:16 PM
Quote from: drunkenmonkey on April 02, 2011, 11:34:34 AMTelltale are giving away back to the future the game episode 1, for those of you who haven't played it.
How unfair! The people who bought it are getting cheated, I tell you! Cheated!
:P
Well, sucks to be those people XD
Oh people who have bought it are feeling cheated all right, but for completely different reasons. ;)