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The Royal Archives => Fan Feedback => Topic started by: Keyta on February 20, 2011, 05:18:47 PM

Title: loved it but!
Post by: Keyta on February 20, 2011, 05:18:47 PM
Loved Ep 3, but the whole action thing in dreamland was awful! I don't want to ever have to replay that again! Ep 3 was more challenging than the previous 2 and I loved it.  I can't wait til ep 4! Brings me back to playing the original king's quest games...well done and thanks!
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: waltzdancing on February 20, 2011, 05:22:17 PM
Why do you think it is awful? I'm just curious as to why you think that is.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: dark-daventry on February 20, 2011, 05:25:28 PM
I think the action sequence was different. Not in a bad way. It was a refreshing break from the standard adventure formula, and it put you on your toes. And, it only happened once. It wasn't like the entire episode was turned into a first person shooter. It was one isolated part that a fair bit of trial and error will get you through no problem. The key to it is timing, really.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: wilco64256 on February 20, 2011, 05:27:14 PM
Yeah if you can give us some specifics on exactly what you disliked about it we always take the feedback we get into account as we move forward.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: Enchantermon on February 20, 2011, 05:50:46 PM
I thought the action sequence was fun, but there were a couple times when I questioned it. When you're on the horse and you have to follow the cues, it was fine until you got to the point where both arrows flashed at once. That confused me the first couple times because I wasn't sure which way to dodge, then I realized that at that point you have to stop watching the arrows and watch the monsters instead to see which one is going to attack, so that transition between being led and not being led was a little clumsy.

Also, transforming the cursor to exactly match the on-screen cues was confusing. At first, I thought that just clicking on the proper side to dodge was enough, but Graham didn't move and I died a couple times before realizing that I had to move the cursor all the way over until it changed. If I had designed it, I would have created what I think is a better system; making a new cursor set that was always either dodge left or right (or whatever the corresponding directions are for the different views) depending on the cursor's position on the screen, then have the arrow cues appear, looking different than the cursor. If you click on the proper side, you live, if you don't, you die. I think those small changes would have made it less confusing. It was a neat idea and I thought it was handled well (though people without very good hand-eye coordination or reaction times may have appreciated a "skip" button like Space Quest had).
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: Keyta on February 20, 2011, 06:16:12 PM
ok! Maybe "awful" was the wrong choice of words...like the other person said, it was a bit confusing at times. I am thrilled that you all actually asked about my opinion! I suppose it was just a bit too confusing at first but I did finish it...maybe some more direction in the future? But I LOVE what you all have done with this new line in KQ, please don't get me wrong!! This whole exp has been amazing and I am looking forward to the next two episodes!!! Love it!
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: dark-daventry on February 20, 2011, 06:30:04 PM
ok! Maybe "awful" was the wrong choice of words...like the other person said, it was a bit confusing at times. I am thrilled that you all actually asked about my opinion! I suppose it was just a bit too confusing at first but I did finish it...maybe some more direction in the future? But I LOVE what you all have done with this new line in KQ, please don't get me wrong!! This whole exp has been amazing and I am looking forward to the next two episodes!!! Love it!

Our fans are one of the most important things to us as a company; we wouldn't exist today without the support of our fans. It's only right that we ask your opinion on the game that you helped bring into creation. We would have been shut down in 2005 if the fans hadn't been so strong and so dedicated, and again just recently in 2009/2010. Without our fans, we simply would not exist. We feel it's important to give back to the community in every way we can. Asking for everyone's individual thoughts on each episode and what we can improve upon is only one of those ways. We do take fan-feedback seriously, btw. We added a lot of stuff to episode 2 and 3 that the fans have requested, and more is on the table for episodes 4 and 5. We can't talk about what those are yet, but we do seriously consider the feedback we get. Please keep it coming! It's the only way we'll know what you want out of the game.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: Keyta on February 20, 2011, 07:12:44 PM
Well thanks again! It's nice to see a company take interest in the actually fan opinions! You have to admit it's rare these days. I will continue to support you all as will many fans will! You guys have done an amazing job!!!!
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: waltzdancing on February 20, 2011, 07:26:42 PM
Thank you, Keyta.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: daventry on February 20, 2011, 11:49:38 PM
I Loved the Action Sequences and i Wish for More, epsecially in Ep4 and the New Ep5.  :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:

The only problem i have with it, is when i hang from the Stairs annd i click mad, it doesent react quick enough, so i die there Allot.

Futher more, i give this Episode a 10/10 like the Previous ones.

Best part about Ep3 is how Short Talking the Narriator is with one or two Insults.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: waltzdancing on February 20, 2011, 11:51:32 PM
The pull up is fine, when you have figured it out. There is a special time for everything.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: Arkillian on February 20, 2011, 11:59:13 PM
I loved the action sequence. Took me a turn to do it without dying, but once I got it right, it was a heart racer for me :D I hope it doesn't get harder in action sequences han that though cause I'm not good at Action. This was my speed though :)
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: oberonqa on February 21, 2011, 06:42:04 AM
Well Weldon, since you asked....   :suffer:

(I posted this over on SHP (http://www.sierrahelp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=27598#p27598) since TSL Ep3 came up as a topic... figure I'd post it here as well):

The visual quality of the arcade segment is jaw-dropping.  To see that kind of cinematic quality in a fan-game is nothing short of spectacular.  It was a nice change of pace, though I feel that there should have been a little more time in each "leg" of the sequence to allow for error. 

This isn't much of an issue when Graham is riding the horse dodging the shadow-serpents, as that is pretty cut-and-dry.  However, once Graham reaches the base of the tower and has to go into the carriage to get the key, there isn't much time to examine your surroundings for a suitable way out.  The placement of the key is right... but the small window that your supposed to use to escape the carriage appears to be too small for Graham to fit through and there is no subtle highlighting (even a slight light source) which would denote a possible escape route.  Your given approximately 24 seconds to get out of that carriage (3 knocks from the shadow-serpents with an approximate 8 seconds between each knock), with the game proceeding to enter the falling over the cliff death sequence immediately after the third knock.  To make matters more stressful on the player, the timer doesn't stop ticking for animations or narration.  This is an amateur design flaw and essentially screams "click randomly and wildly until you get lucky and find where the designer hid the hotspot". 

A simple fix for this segment would be to increase the time-limit in the carriage sequence and add a visual queue that the small window can be used as an escape.  The visual queue doesn't need to be grossly obvious... something as simple as moonlight shining down through the window would be adequate.  And yes, by increasing the time-limit that gives the player some breathing room and you run the risk of diminishing the tension of the scene that has been established... but sometimes this is necessary.  The tension was already established in the horseback chase.  Giving the player an extra 10-15 seconds in the carriage is a good idea, as the carriage would be viewed by most players as a spot of momentary safety where they can catch their bearings for a moment.  Take the movie Aliens, for example.  There is a point where the Colonial Marines go into the heart of the Alien Hive and get their butts handed to them.  Ripley drives down in the command center, picks up the survivors, and makes a bee-line out of the nest with the Aliens in pursuit.  Long story short, after this narrow escape, the survivors hole up in a segment of the colony and barricade themselves in.  We, as the audience, know that this won't work for long... so we expect the Aliens to find a way in.  The filmmakers also know that we know this, but use that time to give the audience a chance to catch their breath after the action that ensued in the hive.  Tension was not lost by having the characters barricade themselves in for about 20 minutes of screen-time because we, the audience, know the Aliens will break through.  But that 20 minutes of screen-time gives us a chance to calm down so we can get the adrenaline pumping again when the Aliens finally do break through the barricade.

Once you get inside the tower, it's pretty straightforward as well... except it's very difficult due to the position of the camera to see that the door Graham opened with the key is wide open and that you must close the door before moving towards the stairwell.  If you do not close the door, one of the shadow-serpents will dart into the room and kill you.  This is obviously a visual clue that the door is opened, but since the shadow-serpent can (and frequently does) clip through the tower walls when it comes in to grab Graham, it's not much of a clue.  Given the fact that Graham closed the carriage door when he entered the carriage... the player is left to assume that Graham would close the door to the tower after entering.  The fact that he does not forces the player to not trust Graham, and by extension, the designers.

This can be easily fixed by either having Graham close the door when he enters the tower (like he closed the door to the carriage)... or adjust the position of the door so that it is easier to notice that the door is open and not just a part of the wall.

In both instances, the death text you receive is the same, which says sometimes it's better to keep to the shadows and not needlessly stick your neck out.  This text is ambiguous and not even remotely relevant to either of these situations.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: StormSpirit86 on February 21, 2011, 11:26:56 AM
I loved the arcade sequences, please let be more of them in the following episodes :)
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: Enchantermon on February 21, 2011, 02:16:58 PM
The placement of the key is right... but the small window that your supposed to use to escape the carriage appears to be too small for Graham to fit through and there is no subtle highlighting (even a slight light source) which would denote a possible escape route.
While this is, true, I would counter:
There's literally nothing else in the carriage that looks like a way out other than the window and the door. If you try to go out the door, you die, so even though the window looks a little small, it's pretty obvious to try it. I guess an extra visual clue wouldn't have hurt, but I don't think it was necessary either.
Once you get inside the tower, it's pretty straightforward as well... except it's very difficult due to the position of the camera to see that the door Graham opened with the key is wide open and that you must close the door before moving towards the stairwell.
Again, I have to disagree...to me it was pretty obvious. :-\ I guess different people see things differently.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: Sslaxx on February 21, 2011, 02:28:10 PM
Once you get inside the tower, it's pretty straightforward as well... except it's very difficult due to the position of the camera to see that the door Graham opened with the key is wide open and that you must close the door before moving towards the stairwell.
Again, I have to disagree...to me it was pretty obvious. :-\ I guess different people see things differently.
Wasn't obvious the first time here either.
Title: Re: loved it but!
Post by: oberonqa on February 21, 2011, 02:49:56 PM
The placement of the key is right... but the small window that your supposed to use to escape the carriage appears to be too small for Graham to fit through and there is no subtle highlighting (even a slight light source) which would denote a possible escape route.
While this is, true, I would counter:
There's literally nothing else in the carriage that looks like a way out other than the window and the door. If you try to go out the door, you die, so even though the window looks a little small, it's pretty obvious to try it. I guess an extra visual clue wouldn't have hurt, but I don't think it was necessary either.
While what you say makes sense, my thought process was you had to go out the door.  When I died, I figured I had to wait until right after a knock and then go out the door.  When I died, I figured I had to wait until the very last second to go out the door.  When I died, I started looking around, and ran out of time going through the narrations.  After that, I started clicking randomly all over the place.  Part of this particular segment's problem is the tension that was established in the horse chase is in full effect, so your thinking on your toes.  And whether you agree with me or not.... that window is entirely too small and too nondescript to draw a player's attention in the heat of the moment.

Once you get inside the tower, it's pretty straightforward as well... except it's very difficult due to the position of the camera to see that the door Graham opened with the key is wide open and that you must close the door before moving towards the stairwell.
Quote
Again, I have to disagree...to me it was pretty obvious. :-\ I guess different people see things differently.
To me it wasn't obvious.  I went in and clicked on the stairs with the walk icon... and died.  Then I double clicked on the stairs with the walk icon... and died.  Then I hugged the wall clockwise taking baby steps... and died.  Then I hugged the wall counter-clockwise taking baby steps... and died.  Four deaths... four different points of entry for the serpent due to clipping issues.  It wasn't until after I died I started looking around and noticed the door was sitting there wide open.  Again... tension that had already been established (and further heightened thanks to the carriage) reached a fever note here.  You may disagree with me if you want... but that doesn't change the fact that the door should either have been closed automatically by Graham when he entered (like he did the carriage door) or the placement of the ajar door should have been at a different angle so as to make it obvious that the door needs to be closed. 

Or... heaven forbid... fix the clipping issue so the serpent comes through the open doorway.  But while we're on that topic... how about make some death sequence text that actually pertains to the death sequence in question.  Now I think I'm asking too much....  **lol**