I posted a few thoughts on this before, but I've better calibrated my thoughts, if you will, and would love to re-discuss this point:
I don't know why, but KQ4 always seemed to be a bit spooky to me. Something about the emptiness of Tamir, the risk of death everywhere you turned and even the music seemed very eerie and melancholy. Does anyone else feel this way?
It isn't truly SCARY--like in truly horror story sense--but it's very subtly spooky. It isn't blood and gore, or any of that, yet it still manages to be very creepy. I'll explain why if you care to read, please tell me your feelings later on and whether you agree--your thoughts and anything you'd like to add:.
To start off, the land you walk around in, Tamir, is very empty. There's not even any music that accompanies you from screen to screen--The land is empty; silent; seemingly for the most part, deserted. You're alone, and each minute you waste is precious time lost. It somehow feels very desolate; abandoned--like if you were to explore a ghost town or a long abandoned building. That in itself is kind of eerie--picture wandering around a long dead, mostly ghost town, filled with not much more than some impoverished people and a creepy, downtrodden and forgotten little cemetery with crumbling graves, and a mysterious, spooky, deteriorating house--and an ominous network of caves.
And also...it seems like death awaits around every corner. You have the Ogre, who can pop up out of the blue, chase you, and you don't know why he's chasing you, and the music which accompanies him is pounding and intense. He's almost like a real life psychopath or serial killer chasing you. Think of the show Unsolved Mysteries--which debuted the same year as production on KQ4 started--and the many stories on that show of missing and abducted women, creepy, vicious serial killers on the prowl and the like. This is what you're dealing with, only transplanted to a fantasy realm.
Or the Troll, the entrance to whose lair is littered with bones...You never see anything but his green, eerily shining eyes and you hear nothing but an ominous "Grr" in the blackness of the cave. He, like the Ogre, pops up anywhere and once he does, you're doomed no matter what you do, and-- again in a psychopathic way, he just wants to kill you. You don't even see him, but it's those glowing eyes and that sudden jumping out of the dense blackness--at any moment- to pull you away to a terrifying, unknown fate which makes it scary. The game's death message inforces the horror of your plight by telling you: "Fate be what it may, you are dragged off to meet it."
And the whole ghost sequence. You have to help wailing, frightened, unhappy ghosts--You're greeted in the midst of a dark, creepy night, having narrowly avoided the clutches re-animated, rotting corpses known as zombies which hunger for your flesh--and in the middle of a long abandoned, falling down house--By strange, frightening sights and soughts: Ghostly captains lost at sea, a grieving lady spirit.
Perhaps most disturbing about your night in Whaley Manor is the wailing cries of an unseen, dead baby. You're greeted in the midst of night by the sounds of his violent wailing from beyond the grave, and you see a rocking cradle with no baby inside. Imagine just this moment if the game had had voices--imagine hearing the baby's cry, the zombie's hungry growls and grunts, the ghost's wails and moans. You have to dig up these ghosts' graves, feeling amongst their rotting corpses, and reach into their very coffins to get items to pacify their restless souls, all while smelly, putrid zombies surround you, hoping you'll take off the Scarab so that they may enjoy their dinner.
You have to narrowly avoid as well three ravenous, treacherous, foul and ugly witches, who share but an eye (meaning one's eye socket is eyeless; just picture that); and you have to carry this witche's eye in your hand, and dart as they throw themselves at you, trying desperately to catch you so as to eat you--A dangerous game of cat and mouse around a boiling cauldron. Once wrong step, and you're dead meat for the three witches later to eat. Notice a pattern here? Or how about the little forest of trees who only wish to embrace you--so as to crush the life out of you in their twisted arms.
And beyond the horror, there's a great sense of melancholy, even the happy moments; For example, the cleaning of the Dwarves' house. The music which plays when you clean the Dwarves' house somehow comes off creepy, melancholy--with an apprehensive undertone to it, a bittersweet sort of sadness to it. Almost a nostalgic sort of sound--a gleaming bit of very dim light amidst the darkness. Even the "points" sound sounds nothing like the point sound in the other games. It too sounds almost a little desperate, like, "Yeah, you got a point. Try and survive the rest of this now." It's not a rewarding sound.
The game actually kind of reminds me of like an early version of Resident Evil in some ways, less blood and gore though But a similar concept--a very basic psychological form of horror underpins this game. Death lies at the turn of every corner. Creatures seek to reach out, grab and devour you, and you must either move fast or succumb to fate. Never again in any King's Quest game do you have so many creepy creatures out to get you; never again in KQ do you confront the nighttime; never again in King's Quest is death and fear handled quite seriously--Even in KQ6, you have a campy moment with the skeletons dancing. Nothing like that here. I just think there's a very heavy, desperate sense of urgency, a feeling that you're in this alone, or eerie sort of sadness to it. Never before and never again is your mission as urgent.
Never before or again do you feel so alone--You are but a lonesome, defenseless princess (usually, in fairy tales, the swooning damsel in distress) who just has been saved from what seemed like certain death at the hands of ravenous dragon, only to watch your father succumb to a strange, very possibly fatal illness, and within only hours of being in the despair of the dragon's lair and meeting your brother for the first time in 17 years, you're thrust into a strange, very hostile land; Any misstep could lead to death, and you have many creepy, violent beings wandering the land who crave to eat your flesh. No friend accompanies you on your mission; No aid is truly given, except at the end of the game. And at the end of 24 hours of fear, panic, and horror, you're forced to kill in order to survive.
Even so, the horror is played very subtly under the surface of it being "just another KQ game", and I wonder if Roberta might've been subconsiously driven by her well known love of horror stories while designing it--Remember she designed the first Laura Bow game around the same time as KQ4. Perhaps somewhere in the back of her mind, the idea of doing a scary story was brewing--and this was a subconscious outlet for it. Roberta is well known as a fan of horror stories, Steven King and the like--She has professed to like them about as much as she loves fairy tales and fantasy.
The game is scary in the same way that the show Unsolved Mysteries was scary--No blood and guts or gore, but enough to keep you awake if playing it's darker moments on a dark and lonely night. Note once more they both came out around the same time--Perhaps she had been watching show while developing KQIV. There was a lot of crime and creepy stories gripping the country in that period--Quite a few of modern history's most famous serial killers active, years from being caught.
To cap off these thoughts, consider this moment of the game:
Tamir suddenly drops to night--a time even more perilous and scary than daylight there, and as little, eerie piece of organ music drones, a moon, pale as death, rises up in an ocean blue sky, hovering over a mountain landscape which you know already is full of danger, and a line of trees, and the game informs you:
"Like a heavy blanket, darkness enfolds you."
The troll has green eyes last I checked?
Apparently KQ4 has alot of Lovecraft referances which would be why it's creepy. It DOES entertain me that Rosella grave digs in all her games though XD
There is certainly a dangerous and creepy air to KQIV!! I remember playing that one, late at night, on my old IBM PC... I was 12, and I felt the hairs on the back of my neck stick up more than once.
I dig the vibe of KQIV - it's really more "uneasy" than horriffic - and I kinda like that sense of unease. It makes playing the game an experience.
Bt
I agree. I feel that KQ4 was a lot creepier than the others, mostly because of the sound. The sound of the troll's approach and the "you are dead, restore?" sounds were just terrifying for me when I was a kid! And everything wanted to make me dead :P
I have to agree. I was confronted with that game when I was six years old. As I didn't know any English at that time, I couldn't play the game on my own und had to watch my siblings and make them translate the texts (my first English expressions that I learned were "take ..." and "open door" XD).
Before King's Quest IV I didn't even know that zombies "existed". It gave me so many nightmares :o
And the "you hear a baby crying" used to give me goosebumps.
Sometimes I would even not get the magic fruit because I was too scared to wander through the caves, always in danger of meeting the troll :D When I finally found the courage to get it, I turned down the speakers so I would not hear that creepy music
Dude, I thought I was the only one! Kq4 was WAY creepy. Probably the creepiest out of all of them. [spoiler]The Ghosts in the mansion, zombies, tomb, forest, ogre, sharks, dying in whales mouth, lollotte's, [/spoiler]
THE CAVE! AAHHH! Oh Man, I couldn't play it alone. And when I tried, I put all the lights on plus a radio playing, and those eyes STILL freak me out.
Sir Perceval of Daventry : I didn't thought the was game that scary until I read your post. When I rethink about, you're right. It is scary and disturbing:
- You end on a deserted island, alone, with no food, no shelter, no water, no fire, nothing.
- You use the crown to turn into a frog. How did you know you won't change back into a human?
- You turn into a frog and swim only to be eaten alive by the swamp monster.
- The ogre's dog swallow you alive if he caught you.
And yes, the creepy troll is the scariest of them all.
nicely written Sir Perceval of Daventry, caught my attention, i felt like i was there.
:sleepy:
KQIV was the 1st KQ game I fully played through - and has always been my favorite. Being in Lolotte's castle was always pretty creepy... until you went in the room where she was storing some of your possessions and found the hen that lays golden eggs. I can still remember the first time my best friend and I came across that. We were both expecting either to get caught by a goon, find another cell with bones in it, or something creepy, both on the edge of our seats, and then we heard the music playing and about fell out of our chairs laughing so hard. I think that's the only non-creepy music in the entire game!
In case you are not aware, that music is the Astro Chicken music from Space Quest III.
Quote from: Enchantermon on February 22, 2011, 10:01:18 PM
In case you are not aware, that music is the Astro Chicken music from Space Quest III.
Yes, it's actually an old dance tune called "Chicken Reel".... it's an old standard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_reel
Bt
Ah, that would explain why it appeared there a year before SQIII. I wondered why they would throw in a reference to a game that wasn't out yet.
King's Quest IV WAS creepy. The mansion ALWAYS scared the crud out of me. I'm still afraid to go in there to this day. I can't even begin to imagine how creepy the remake is going to make the mansion. If KQ was ever turned into a horror series (god forbid), KQ4 is where you'd draw the inspiration from. That, or MoE.
Quote from: Enchantermon on February 23, 2011, 08:26:54 AM
Ah, that would explain why it appeared there a year before SQIII. I wondered why they would throw in a reference to a game that wasn't out yet.
It was also in the original Police Quest which predates both of those.
Quote from: MusicallyInspired on February 23, 2011, 04:41:18 PMIt was also in the original Police Quest which predates both of those.
Really? Where? I don't recall hearing it; I must have missed it.
Quote from: Enchantermon on February 23, 2011, 10:25:06 PM
Quote from: MusicallyInspired on February 23, 2011, 04:41:18 PMIt was also in the original Police Quest which predates both of those.
Really? Where? I don't recall hearing it; I must have missed it.
In Chief's office when the chicken is on his desk. It said "The gremlin strikes again".
The troll caves always creeped me out too when I was younger. I remember the first time I played it when I was 11, I made my dad go through the caves for me. I also noticed unlike the earlier games when a monster appeared on the screen, no warning message appears with the game paused. The troll or the ogre would appear out from nowhere and startle you with the music.
Duuuuuuuude, I remember this thread from the red boards and I totally know what you mean! King's Quest 4 is totally creepy! It's unsettling...the haunted house, the zombies, the feeling that you're alone in the whole world, but are being watched...ugh! I always feel a little uneasy when I play the fourth game.
Quote from: Haids1987 on February 24, 2011, 07:53:15 PM
Duuuuuuuude, I remember this thread from the red boards and I totally know what you mean! King's Quest 4 is totally creepy! It's unsettling...the haunted house, the zombies, the feeling that you're alone in the whole world, but are being watched...ugh! I always feel a little uneasy when I play the fourth game.
Oh man, the red boards. That takes me back a couple of years... I still miss the blue forums era though...
In any event, I think I'm going to replay KQ4 soon. On my mac, no less. I'm just not going to do it at night or in a dark room. I'd rather do it in a brightly lit room with people around in the middle of the day. That way, I won't be totally scared out of my pants.
Quote from: dark-daventry on February 24, 2011, 09:20:29 PM
In any event, I think I'm going to replay KQ4 soon. On my mac, no less. I'm just not going to do it at night or in a dark room. I'd rather do it in a brightly lit room with people around in the middle of the day. That way, I won't be totally scared out of my pants.
Ha ha ha! ;D I keep a golden retriever somewhere near me if I'm playing something creepy. I remember I was all alone in my house one of the first times I played Colonel's Bequest (which, incidentally, scares me in the same way KQIV does!), and when I discovered the first body I screamed out loud. My dog Sydney ran into the room barking, and I was like, "I'm never playing anything scary without a dog nearby ever again!"
Quote from: Haids1987 on February 24, 2011, 10:23:22 PM
Quote from: dark-daventry on February 24, 2011, 09:20:29 PM
In any event, I think I'm going to replay KQ4 soon. On my mac, no less. I'm just not going to do it at night or in a dark room. I'd rather do it in a brightly lit room with people around in the middle of the day. That way, I won't be totally scared out of my pants.
Ha ha ha! ;D I keep a golden retriever somewhere near me if I'm playing something creepy. I remember I was all alone in my house one of the first times I played Colonel's Bequest (which, incidentally, scares me in the same way KQIV does!), and when I discovered the first body I screamed out loud. My dog Sydney ran into the room barking, and I was like, "I'm never playing anything scary without a dog nearby ever again!"
LOL! I like that! Dogs rule!! ;D
I completely agree, KQ4 had some seriously creepy vibes. There was just a general feeling of doom the entire time. Graham is dying. Genesta, who brought you here, is dying. You're stuck in this fairly empty land that becomes darker the further in you go (with the pine trees, the thinning vegetation, and then the graveyard, mansion, and nasty killer trees.) It's like Tamir centers around death. In KQ6 we hear that legend says the Green Isles are closer to darker realms and death than anywhere else. Well, the Green Isles got nothing on Tamir.
The feel of doom just continues throughout the game. The troll is a prime example. You're going through like normal, then suddenly you get that "GRRRRRR!" and the music, and then you're dead. It's not even like past games or even like the ogre in that game where you can outrun him to the next screen. He freaking follows you! If you see the troll, you're dead. That's it. You're just dead. You're on edge the entire time.
And then there's Lolotte. She is easily the most evil character in any King's Quest. There's just something about her coldness and calculating evil that makes her worse than Manannan or any of the others. Lolotte toys with you. She has no intention of doing anything for you, and you know that, and odds are she knows you know that, but she's going to toy with you anyway because you have no choice but to do what she says. Lolotte seems so evil that it bugs me when people try to make her one of the Black Cloaks (like TSL did, and like the hidden letter in KQIII Redux did). Honestly, Lolotte seems so evil, that being part of the Black Cloaks would be slumming it for her. She screws with fairy queens just for fun! She seems like the kind of person that Mordack and Alhazared or any other potential Black Cloak would steer clear of.
The whole game just evokes a feeling of dread and doom. And what's incredible to me is that it does it just as well, if not better, than Mask of Eternity which had better graphics and music to set the mood. King's Quest IV is dark and that's part of why it's such an awesome game.
Quote from: Damar on February 27, 2011, 07:36:38 PM
And then there's Lolotte. She is easily the most evil character in any King's Quest. There's just something about her coldness and calculating evil that makes her worse than Manannan or any of the others. Lolotte toys with you. She has no intention of doing anything for you, and you know that, and odds are she knows you know that, but she's going to toy with you anyway because you have no choice but to do what she says. Lolotte seems so evil that it bugs me when people try to make her one of the Black Cloaks (like TSL did, and like the hidden letter in KQIII Redux did). Honestly, Lolotte seems so evil, that being part of the Black Cloaks would be slumming it for her. She screws with fairy queens just for fun! She seems like the kind of person that Mordack and Alhazared or any other potential Black Cloak would steer clear of.
I totally agree with this assessment of Lolotte. In general, this is why I strongly dislike the whole idea of the Black Cloak Society--it reeks of classic Jane Jensen cliched plot-interconnection. Oooh, all the series villains were actually working together all along in a SEKRIT SOCIETY!!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!! So original. Not.
It becomes even worse when you make all the villains the willing pawns of one UBER-villain. It just retroactively reduces the impact of each villain as an individual malevolent force. I liked Mordack a lot better in KQ5 when he was just an evil badass that just happened to be Manannan's brother. He became so much weaker as a villain when we find out that he's part of some larger Black Cloak Society plot involving Alhazared and Cassima. Lame lame LAME.
Lolotte is a fantastic example of this idea though. She is such a great evil, calculating villainess on her own. It completely belittles her to make her some pawn in a larger scheme. I didn't like that hidden letter in KQ3Redux for exactly that reason. Excellent points.
In general, I don't like the idea of the Black Cloak Society encompassing every villain for the exact reason you mentioned, Lamb.
I don't mind Manannan, Mordack, Shadrack, and Alhazred (and even Hagatha) particularly since each was working on their own schemes. I don't even mind Dahlia being roped in.
That being said, I don't like Lolotte being a member because she is so much more evil than any of them. Putting her on the same level? I don't think so. I could see, perhaps, that Lolotte is secretly the uber-villain and each of the games afterwards is Mordack, Alhazred, etc vying for her position and trying to rebuild the order. But I don't think that would quite work either.
I completely agree. I like the villains each having their own motivations. Though I think with creative writing in TSL, they can have their cake and eat it to in regards to the Black Cloak Society. Basically TSL has their uber-villain imprisoned, so they could write these characters as being part of the Society, but that doesn't mean anything. Take Manannan and Mordack. Their cardinal sins would seem to be arrogance and hotheadedness respectively. Even if they technically have a master, they'd still do their own thing because the master is locked away and never comes around (in the TSL universe). Manannan can act like he'd never do away with Alexander because Alex is important or prophesied or whatever, but really, who's going to stop him if he did? The guy trapped in the Zodia Stone? Manannan does what he wants because he's an arrogant punk. Likewise, Mordack was out for revenge. He might have a master who doesn't want the prophesied ones hurt, but again, what is the uber-villain going to do about it? Mordack's brother is a cat and Mordack is pissed. He's not going to listen to the guy in a stone who's impotent to do anything and couldn't even stop some slave from turning his brother into an animal that licks itself for fun.
Likewise with Lolotte, TSL says that she's a Black Cloak, but even that could be explained away. Apparently they want Pandora's Box and they knew it was in Tamir. They could write it as the Black Cloaks just trying to butter Lolotte up, making her a member, trying to invest her in the cause, all so she helps them find the box and not smite them off the face of the earth while they look for it in her territory. Her being a member would be more of a diplomatic thing, the Black Cloaks prostrating themselves to this bad lady because they know they can't meet their goals without her help. And likewise, Lolotte might just play along so they help her find the box so she can keep it. And then smite them off the face of the earth because that's just how Lolotte rolls.
So I think there's a way to connect them while still keeping the individuality in place, at least in TSL's universe. I don't think they'll do that, though. I think they're going to fully connect them all like AGDI did. In my opinion that's a shame because it does remove some of the individuality and special evil flair all these villains had.
Anyway, I guess that's a bit off topic, but it does all come back to the main issue which is that Lolotte is wicked evil. Don't mess with Lolotte.
When I initially read your third sentence, I thought you were saying the writers of TSL needed creative writing CLASSES, in which case I was about to laugh my ass off. But then I reread it. lol ;)
Joking aside though, I'm not really a fan of the idea of the villains of the series being connected AT ALL. Not in the slightest. I am okay with Manannan and Mordack as brothers, because it's plausible and works in the context of the series, and more importantly, it doesn't take away from their individual evil personas. And seriously, anything that paves the way for the masterpiece that is King's Quest V is aces in my book. I mean, Mordack wouldn't give two s***s about the Daventry royal family if it hadn't been for his older brother's debacle. And Manannan was just an evil old dude who liked little boys. That's all the explanation I need, and I'm off ready to go adventuring. ;D
The Black Cloak Society on the other hand just seems like such a contrivance to me. Connecting EVERY villain in the series with one overarching plot? Oh, and they all for some reason are interested in screwing over the Daventry royal family? Wow. It's just so ridiculous and cliche. It reeks of bad fan fiction. And I'm not even talking about the ACTUAL fan fiction. I'm talking about the whole Black Cloak Society idea that slithered its way into King's Quest 6. It's just silly. Not to mention the fact that it was just a throw-away idea that Roberta herself didn't even KNOW about. Blech.
QuoteI didn't like that hidden letter in KQ3Redux for exactly that reason. Excellent points.
It's also crazy that they made Lolotte the biological sister of Malicia... What the? So now Titania has two evil sisters, or Malicia wasn't really Titania's sister (cause Lolotte's letter makes it sound like she only has one sister)?
Ya, I know the letter doesn't specifically mention the name of Lolotte's evil sister, but who else would it be alluding to? There aren't that many evil fairies in the KQ series to choose from right?
Quotegeneral, this is why I strongly dislike the whole idea of the Black Cloak Society--it reeks of classic Jane Jensen cliched plot-interconnection. Oooh, all the series villains were actually working together all along in a SEKRIT SOCIETY!!!!
QuoteI'm talking about the whole Black Cloak Society idea that slithered its way into King's Quest 6.
As for the black cloak society, KQ6 only really linked two villains together to any degree, Shadrack and Alhazred... Mordack is mentioned by Shadrack, but somewhat offhandedly as a "ninny at chess", and it seems more like Alhazred was using Mordack his own gains, to get rid of Cassima (this is somewhat supported by some of the comments made in KQ5 by Cassima about the "Vizier" as well). So as such Mordack may not even be a member of the society, just a pawn of Alhazred's.
If you look at most of the quotes surrounding Alhazred in KQ6, it seems that the whole Green Isles conspiracy was his own idea (actually KQ6 Hintbook supports the fact that it was primarily Alhazred's idea), Shadrack seems to be treated as his equal, who is let in on Alhazred's plans. I don't think there is anything there that implies that he was leading the society. This is likely the reason why AGDI went the route of making him just another underling of The Father.
I think the later fan games do smell of bad fan fiction, because they read too much into the comments in KQ6 (taking things to an extreme). I personaly don't think KQ6 and KQ5 comments connecting a few characters together imply what the fans have assumed was meant (connecting everyone else).
You know, it's funny, but after I first beat KQVII, I thought that Lolotte was biologically related to Titania and Malicia (probably because of the green skin she shares with Titania). It wasn't until later that I discovered that they weren't.
Ya, but in KQ7, Titania and Edgar speak of Lolotte, and don't say anything about being related to her. Infact Edgar goes as far to say he isn't related to her. If she was Titania's sister, she would have at least been another aunt!
So I don't see how anyone could have assumed they were related.
Right. I should have added that I was much younger at that point and didn't quite grasp all of the information in the ending. Plus I was really excited about having finished the game for the first time. :)
Well, ya I have to admit KQ7 ending is probably filled with too much exposition... tried to tie up all the loose ends all at once... It would have probably been better if some of the backstory could have been obtained earlier throughout the chapters, a little bit at a time, so as to not make it mind-overloading...
Quote from: Baggins on March 03, 2011, 07:39:46 PM
So I don't see how anyone could have assumed they were related.
This may have just been poor word choice.
Quote from: Arkillian on February 21, 2011, 12:08:15 PM
Apparently KQ4 has alot of Lovecraft referances
No. F-ing. Way. I suddenly have twice as much love for that game now.
And for the record, that d*** troll scared the bejeezes out of me every time and p***ed me off because I could never get past him.
I agree that the whole game deals with "death" undertones; it's fitting. Graham is on the brink of dying, Rosella is hunting after this Fruit of Life. I think the life/death thing plays out well there.