You guys have got to download AGDI's new King's Quest III Redux. I've been playing it for about the last hour. You're all going to die when you see it... it's like playing an actual Sierra game... but better. The music, the art, everything... is to die for. I was already a big fan of the AGDI games and expected something good... and this still has really impressed me.
And now the team (as Himalaya) just posted info about their brand new original adventure/RPG game... some people who pre-order this game will get a cool KQ3 poster (way better than their QFG2 poster, which I also liked). I would have ordered already, but there is no way to purchase yet. They need to hurry up! I'm not going to be able to be at the computer much this week... and I don't want to order after all the posters are gone. :( I'm like in adventure gaming overload tonight.
http://www.himalayastudios.com/games/mages/
http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/kq3/poster/aboutposter.html
So far I'm digging the background quality. Although I think some of the sprites could be improved.
Some aspects do not look as consistent as the Enhanced remakes of KQ1 and KQ3 (it might have something to do with the zooming/scrolling over the images or due to screen resolution on the computer I'm using at the moment).
It's also crashed on me, when trying to use the "restart" button for some odd reason.
[spoiler]I like the pacing of the intro, and the way it shows Manannan directly involved with the kidnapping.
I'm intrigued by some of the + elements like, the relocation of Medusa to a cave, a new character 'bard', and now Alexander can't swim, LOL. I'm still trying to figure out the changes to the puzzles, since some of the items don't seem to be in their exact locations, or don't show up initially. So far I can't find the key to Manannan's wand in its original location yet (so I'm wandering if it will show up later due to a scripted event).[/spoiler]
Aren't the backgrounds ridiculously good? After I visit some screens for the first time, I'm like, "hello!"
I'm debating whether to use the official Erpy walkthrough at all after it gets published... I'm already a little stuck... but I'm going to do my best to avoid cheating.
Use spoiler tags, please, guys :) (I put one in your post, Baggins)
I love the game so far.... but alas I am completely and utterly stuck, and I'm loving it. The changes to the puzzles have made things fresh and interesting. Though...
[spoiler]
I want to strangle the person (or persons) who thought moving the key to the safe and replacing the latch with a lever puzzle was a good idea. Seriously... :suffer:
[/spoiler]
EDIT:
Figured out the solution to the lever puzzle.
[spoiler]
It's a randomly generated sequence that is unique to each playthrough. To find out the proper sequence, check the next spoiler tag...
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
Find the journal of the previous Gwydion, which is located in the Port Bruce library (just north of the tavern). To get into the library, check the next spoiler tag...
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
Climb the boxes on the side of the building (use the hand cursor), then use your cutting knife on the partially opened window to unlatch the window.
[/spoiler]
You should figure out the solution to the lever puzzle as soon as you can, as Manannan will want to be fed whenever he comes back from a journey or wakes up from a nap... and there's only so many things you can feed him before you run out of food. Furthermore, the sequence changes each time you start a new game or restore a saved game prior to finding the solution in the first place.
I found this out the hard way. I found the solution, then took a screenshot of if for future reference. Then I made a mistake while fiddling around in the laboratory and restored my game (which I saved prior to getting the sequence). Figuring I could shave some time, I tried to use the solution I already had... and it didn't work. When I retraced my steps and found the solution, it was completely different from the solution I had the first time.
Baggins
[spoiler]The key is in one of the robes in Manannan's closet. The BLACK cloak.
[/spoiler]
Bt
Downloading it now. The screenshots and site design all look amazing.
(Posted on: February 24, 2011, 09:51:43 AM)
YES! This is an amazing game! Great art, animation, music, voice acting, etc. - top notch!
It's out already?? Ohmigosh!! *downloading*
Quote from: Baggins on February 24, 2011, 05:44:45 AM[spoiler]I'm intrigued by some of the + elements like, the relocation of Medusa to a cave, a new character 'bard',[/spoiler]
[spoiler]The Bard is not a new character. He's the same guy from KQ4.[/spoiler]
Quote from: oberonqa on February 24, 2011, 06:10:32 AMYou should figure out the solution to the lever puzzle as soon as you can, as Manannan will want to be fed whenever he comes back from a journey or wakes up from a nap... and there's only so many things you can feed him before you run out of food. Furthermore, the sequence changes each time you start a new game or restore a saved game prior to finding the solution in the first place.
That's not entirely true. You can never run out of food to feed Manannan if you're looking in the right place.
QuoteI found this out the hard way. I found the solution, then took a screenshot of if for future reference. Then I made a mistake while fiddling around in the laboratory and restored my game (which I saved prior to getting the sequence). Figuring I could shave some time, I tried to use the solution I already had... and it didn't work. When I retraced my steps and found the solution, it was completely different from the solution I had the first time.
You can take "solution" to the lab puzzle wherever you go. So you don't need to take a screenshot. You can view it at any time right while sitting in front of the levers.
He is a new character to KQ3, however.
Ah semantics. The bane of conversation.
Hmmm- I'm up to the part just after getting the treasure. I stopped cause I needed to sleep. The new editions to the game are excellent :) I'm really enjoying all of that. I LOVE what they did with the magic casting. A nice compromise between typing it all out by hand and point and click casting :) Took me a while to figure it all out, but once I got it, it was really fluid :)
This game was really great. It was challenging, though not too much so. Honestly the only part I got stuck on was the lever puzzle, and that wasn't so much me getting stuck as it was a textbook example of the brain recognizing what it wants to see. When I first found the combination, I read the dash symbol as a missing symbol and since I made that assumption I didn't notice that the one lever symbol was actually a dash. So yeah...I'm saying its an example of human psychology and how we see what we expect to see. Otherwise I'm just an idiot who wasted a crapload of time looking for the second part to a combination I already had...
I'm not an idiot is what I'm trying to say. Really, I'm not. Sigh...ok maybe a little...
Outside of that, it was a great game. I liked the little tie-ins with the other games like the bard and the yeti saying that he's going off to Serenia. Often times I don't like things being tied together too much as it can seem too convenient and trite (like the idea of Hagatha being related to Mordack and Manannan. Yeah I know the Companion said it, but that always seemed a bit much), but I thought those were nice touches.
As for the added things, I found it all entertaining. That said, I've never been a huge fan of the Father storyline. It always felt a bit shoehorned in to me. Maybe that's because I grew up playing the games with one set plot, so the added stuff seems out of place, but still the whole plot never seemed like King's Quest to me. So the references to First Mages and such just seemed out of place (possibly because the term "mage" sounds like modern, pop fantasy. In King's Quest they've always been called wizards). Likewise the side quest to find the treasure seemed out of place and tagged on. But the puzzles were fun, so who cares?
As for the negatives, it's mainly nitpicky things. I wish that Manannan would stay gone for longer. Then again, that would allow someone to beat him in one absence, so the shorter journeys do add to the tension. Still, it can get a little frustrating, especially since he demands food all the time. Most of the voices were really good, but some weren't as good, or just sounded like someone reading the lines. The visuals were great, but as with other AGDI games, there was some artwork that just didn't look right to me, usually closeups or dialogue boxes. Heads that seemed too long, faces that seemed out of proportion, and that kind of thing. But that's more artistic style versus personal preference and I certainly don't hold it against the game. Likewise, the writers of this game, like in KQII+, seem to love to put little poems in the game and I really, really am not a fan of their poetry. The cadence tends to sound rushed and the rhymes too forced. But I'm also kind of a literary snob. Like I said, any negatives I found in the game were nitpicky and didn't ruin the enjoyment of the game even in the slightest.
All in all, I really enjoyed the game, evidenced by the fact that I played it through in one sitting. Well, once I finally figured out I was being an idiot about the lever puzzle I played it through in one sitting. And then I played it through again. The awards system at the end is a stroke of genius. The OCD part of me will be playing this game over and over again until I figure out what all the awards are and collect them.
I actually thought the little random bits of poetry for looking at or interacting with certain background elements was a great homage to the original series. That type of thing is straight out of games like KQ5 and KQ6, actually. The one that stood out to me as being especially similar to responses from the original games was when you try to pick up the bottles on the shelf in Manannan's dining room. Classic King's Quest, in my opinion.
At least it wasn't a multi-paragraph inner-monologue about Alexander's feelings. *shudder*
I really enjoy he music quality in this game. I like the Oracle theme.
The Oracle theme is one of my favourites in the game. Seran's Glade is another.
I liked the update of the Sorcery of Old theme. The original was chilling in its repetitive simplicity and I liked the fact that this version left it pretty much the same, except with updated sounds.
Quote from: Lambonius on February 27, 2011, 10:19:55 PM
I actually thought the little random bits of poetry for looking at or interacting with certain background elements was a great homage to the original series. That type of thing is straight out of games like KQ5 and KQ6, actually. The one that stood out to me as being especially similar to responses from the original games was when you try to pick up the bottles on the shelf in Manannan's dining room. Classic King's Quest, in my opinion.
At least it wasn't a multi-paragraph inner-monologue about Alexander's feelings. *shudder*
Yeah, I agree that the alliteration and quick rhymes in random responses are very King's Quest and I don't mind them. The poetry I was referring to was the straight up verse they attempt, such as the Father's curse and Valanice's words in the sand from KQ2+ and the back of the treasure map, the updated incantations, and so on in this version. The full poetry just never worked for me. I always feel like the cadence is rushed and the rhymes obvious or not quite right. It's never been enough to derail the game, not by a long shot, but I've never liked it all that much.
Interestingly enough the long responses in TSL have been getting to me more recently. Still not enough to ruin the game for me, but it is starting to wear a little thin in my opinion. Basically I see the writing in TSL and AGDI as two separate extremes. AGDI's games can be a bit trite in the writing department (though by and large the writing is fine. Even better than fine often times) while TSL can benefit from a touch of triteness every so often instead of the long responses (though, again, by and large I find the writing fine.)
Quote from: Damar on March 02, 2011, 07:51:06 PM
Yeah, I agree that the alliteration and quick rhymes in random responses are very King's Quest and I don't mind them. The poetry I was referring to was the straight up verse they attempt, such as the Father's curse and Valanice's words in the sand from KQ2+ and the back of the treasure map, the updated incantations, and so on in this version. The full poetry just never worked for me. I always feel like the cadence is rushed and the rhymes obvious or not quite right. It's never been enough to derail the game, not by a long shot, but I've never liked it all that much.
Oh! Those parts. Yeah, I like those less, but I don't really have a problem with them per se. I did think a few of the rewritten incantations were clever, but then, I also thought others were not so clever, or reaching too hard for the rhymes and such. So yeah, I see where you're coming from.
My question was why they rewrote the incantations at all. It seemed pretty unnecessary. The only exception is the spell that used fish scales instead of fish bone (again, why?), but even then, just changing "bone of fish" to "scale of fish" would have been sufficient.
Quote from: Enchantermon on March 03, 2011, 05:51:28 AM
My question was why they rewrote the incantations at all. It seemed pretty unnecessary. The only exception is the spell that used fish scales instead of fish bone (again, why?), but even then, just changing "bone of fish" to "scale of fish" would have been sufficient.
They did it so that they weren't technically giving out the original Sierra copy protection answers (which is what the original spell system essentially was all about). They thought Activision might frown upon that.
It's kind of a misconception that the spells were strictly a copy protection actually. Pretty much all the hint books and magazines offering hints reprinted the spells in whole, or directly walked the player through the steps. Even a few Sierra authorized guides printed the spells and page numbers step by step including the KQ companion and the Sierra KQ3 hint book.
You can also find in some of the interview with Roberta that she apparently saw it as a new way to add a more immersive and interactive way to incorporate puzzles into the game. One of her experiments in 'innovating' the genre.
The fact that one could get legitimate walkthroughs giving step by step answers for the spells did lead to people stealing the game later though. Since it was often cheaper to buy the guides.
On a side note the main form of copy protection in KQ4 wad originally that the game came on a booter disk and required the player to load the game from the disk to play the game.
Quote from: Lambonius on March 03, 2011, 07:15:43 AM
They thought Activision might frown upon that.
Are you implying that Activision approved their game? I thought they intentionally announced their project extremely late to avoid attracting much outside attention (especially from Activsion).
If you read through their forums/backstory, they did get permission to make their games from vivendi. I didn't see anything about activision, but from what I can tell, it was all legit. I believe that I read that they altered the spells before they got permission.
Quote from: Lambonius on March 03, 2011, 07:15:43 AMThey did it so that they weren't technically giving out the original Sierra copy protection answers (which is what the original spell system essentially was all about). They thought Activision might frown upon that.
Oh. Well, that reasoning does make sense, but it's also true that it's quite the simple matter to find the answers listed elsewhere. Can't fault them for good intentions, though.
Yeah, it was probably an unnecessary move, but they also had (until very recently) intentions to attempt to get licensing from Activision to make King's Quest games commercially. So they probably wanted to take every precaution to keep relations good.
Quote from: Lambonius on March 03, 2011, 12:41:36 PMYeah, it was probably an unnecessary move, but they also had (until very recently) intentions to attempt to get licensing from Activision to make King's Quest games commercially.
It seems like they might still have those intentions, at least that's the impression I got from this poll (http://www.agdinteractive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14920). I know AGC2 said it's a theoretical question, but he also said it might "prove helpful in any future discussions," so it sounds like they haven't completely discounted the possibility just yet.
Interesting...I would love to see some commercial KQ games, especially if they come from AGDI/Himalaya.
Interesting idea but I'd dislike very much if their version of KQ replaced the original official games. The games take too many liberties and I find the stories nearly as complicated as TSL, changing the stories around.
I don't think anything will ever replace the original games. At least not in the hearts of the fans. :)
Quote from: Baggins on March 03, 2011, 02:23:18 PM
The games take too man liberties...
MAN LIBERTIES!
(just teasing)
Quote from: kindofdoon on March 03, 2011, 01:46:37 PM
Interesting...I would love to see some commercial KQ games, especially if they come from AGDI/Himalaya.
We will be seeing some...just from TellTale.
I dont' want to see Telltale making any references to any fan games... I want it create new stories, and make references to the official games only (if it turns out to be a continuation rather than a true reboot).
I'd like to see Graham's name changed to Ted. And I'd like to see his hair turned golden brown and lengthened to Fabio length. Also, I'd like to see him without his shirt for the entirety of the game (well, I'd also be okay with him starting out with a shirt, but losing it, or better yet, tearing it off Hulk Hogan style, very early on.) That'd be my dream KQ game from Telltale.
Quote from: Lambonius on March 04, 2011, 07:47:10 AM
I'd like to see Graham's name changed to Ted. And I'd like to see his hair turned golden brown and lengthened to Fabio length. Also, I'd like to see him without his shirt for the entirety of the game (well, I'd also be okay with him starting out with a shirt, but losing it, or better yet, tearing it off Hulk Hogan style, very early on.) That'd be my dream KQ game from Telltale.
Sounds a lot like Larry Laffer in LSL2.
Quote from: Lambonius on March 04, 2011, 07:47:10 AM
I'd like to see Graham's name changed to Ted. And I'd like to see his hair turned golden brown and lengthened to Fabio length. Also, I'd like to see him without his shirt for the entirety of the game (well, I'd also be okay with him starting out with a shirt, but losing it, or better yet, tearing it off Hulk Hogan style, very early on.) That'd be my dream KQ game from Telltale.
Wait - isn't that what happens in KOS? :P
Well his hair is described as being 'light' or 'blond' in KoS. Not sure how it describes his hair length though (Graham is one of the biggest customers for Just for Kings magical hair color restoration). He grew a beard though!
But he actually wears someting like six shirts to keep warm, and cuts down to one by the end of the story.
I was talking about IA's version. :P
Quote from: Baggins on March 04, 2011, 11:30:38 AM
Well his hair is described as being 'light' or 'blond' in KoS. Not sure how it describes his hair length though (Graham is one of the biggest customers for Just for Kings magical hair color restoration). He grew a beard though!
But he actually wears someting like six shirts to keep warm, and cuts down to one by the end of the story.
I noticed this- I can't imagine Graham in a beard, but I suppose it'd look good on him in some way. I'm just not use to it O.o
Well there is a picture or two of him with a mustache in the KQ1 and KQ2 manuals! That's halfway there, if you want sort of an idea!
Bet graham would be a goatee or kinda guy (and wouldn't come off looking like his evil double) or maybe a little chin beard + mustache.
Edit: But if it was sierra era beardy graham (KoS blondy), it would probably end up something like the new "profile pic" I just uploaded ;).
Quote from: Baggins on March 04, 2011, 09:01:28 PM
Well there is a picture or two of him with a mustache in the KQ1 and KQ2 manuals! That's halfway there, if you want sort of an idea!
Bet graham would be a goatee or kinda guy (and wouldn't come off looking like his evil double) or maybe a little chin beard + mustache.
Edit: But if it was sierra era beardy graham (KoS blondy), it would probably end up something like the new "profile pic" I just uploaded ;).
Your new avatar made me stop surfing for a second and go wide eyed. I'm sorry, but Graham in a beard is REALLY not how I picture him. It's not bad, but It's... well I can't say it's not Graham, but it's not how I picture him
*spends a few minutes getting over the shock*
I notice in the following picture that he has a bit of manly stubble
(http://i26.tinypic.com/8yb691.jpg)
This to me feels Grahamish cause if he's adventuring it would grow over, and it has the tough strong guy look about it. To me, Graham has a similar face to Harrison Ford, and he looks great in stubble, but if he was to have a beard, I'd think he'd have something that didn't take up his whole jaw line like a Van dy.ke (Lol- it censored the name XD)
[spoiler](http://www.moviescribes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Harrison-Ford.jpg) (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KTJWhtuRLac/SIHuTk981sI/AAAAAAAAETk/L0_rAfG-ri0/s1600/harrison_ford-beard.jpg)[/spoiler]
I don't like him having long hair AND a beard though. It's a bit much with his cap.
And I'm a fan of beards btw- a lot of my man characters have them at some point in my stories :)
I should draw King Graham as Harrison Ford actually...
Quote from: Arkillian on March 04, 2011, 09:59:27 PMYour new avatar made me stop surfing for a second and go wide eyed. I'm sorry, but Graham in a beard is REALLY not how I picture him. It's not bad, but It's... well I can't say it's not Graham, but it's not how I picture him
That's because it's
not Graham. It's Graham's body with Robin Hood's head, lol.
Quote from: Arkillian on March 04, 2011, 09:59:27 PM. . . like a Van d***
Forum censorship ftw. :P
Quotehttp://I notice in the following picture that he has a bit of manly stubble
That TSL Graham looks deformed, and has a hunchback :rofl:, and the top of his hat looks way too round.
Ya, the avatar is actually formed from two different Graham images (KQ5 Graham, and KQ6 Graham), and Robin Hood's head.
Quote from: Baggins on March 04, 2011, 10:21:01 PM
That Graham looks deformed, and has a hunchback :rofl:, and the top of his hat looks way too round.
Ya, the avatar is actually formed from two different Graham images (KQ5 Graham, and KQ6 Graham), and Robin Hood's head.
Lol- go splicing XD But yeah- not with long hair ^^; that's the think I don't like about the full beard for him cause the hat makes his head too cluttered.
I always thought a mustache would suit Graham, like in the KQ2 manual:
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100820113331/kingsquest/images/e/e9/GrahamKQ2manual.JPG)
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091024174722/kingsquest/images/0/03/Grahammirror.jpg)
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100625105353/kingsquest/images/7/73/Graham_in_Hell.jpg)
Yep, Graham had da beard in LB2.
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on March 04, 2011, 10:46:48 PM
I always thought a mustache would suit Graham, like in the KQ2 manual:
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100820113331/kingsquest/images/e/e9/GrahamKQ2manual.JPG)
See, that's fine cause he wears a crown- not the hat. The hat takes over the show if it's accompanied with a beard of some sort and long hair. They have to be PERFECTLY groomed for it to work. I donno. I'm all about the rule of balance in an outfit and style. Bald people look GREAT with facial hair for that reason.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090210011255/kingsquest/images/9/9d/Grahamtights.jpg)
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100820114415/kingsquest/images/4/41/GrahamKQC1E2.jpg)
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100819084103/kingsquest/images/8/8e/GrahamKQC2ndeditionKQ2.jpg)
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100819084332/kingsquest/images/5/55/GrahamKQC3rdeditionKQ1.jpg)
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100820122434/kingsquest/images/a/a2/GrahamKQC3E2.jpg)
Ugh. I despised the mustache Graham from the KQ2 manual.
If we ever do another game with Alexander as the protagonist, I'd love to see him with a mustache and puffy 1980s permed hair.
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 11:54:08 AM
If we ever do another game with Alexander as the protagonist, I'd love to see him with a mustache and puffy 1980s permed hair.
(http://www.infamous-adventures.com/blackthorne/AlexDebarge.jpg)
Bt
Quote from: Blackthorne on March 05, 2011, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 11:54:08 AM
If we ever do another game with Alexander as the protagonist, I'd love to see him with a mustache and puffy 1980s permed hair.
(http://www.infamous-adventures.com/blackthorne/AlexDebarge.jpg)
Bt
hahaha....Careful, Bt. There are a lot of ravenous Alexander fangirls around these parts. Any more of that will be more than they can stand!!
Oh God, that looks horrible.
These early sketches for Alex's costume from the KQ6 hintbook suggest that originally, Alexander was going to have long hair, much as Graham does in the KQ Companion. (Alex himself is illustrated with long hair in the KQ6 edition (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:AlexanderMinatour.jpg) of the Companion.)
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq6alexhb.png)
Also check out this long-haired Graham from the AGI KQ1 box:
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq1grahammed.png)
BTW, the Companion describes Graham's hair as "dark brown" or "almost black" in color. This may derive from the AGI sprite of Graham in KQ1 and KQ2, where his hair is colored dark gray (suggestive of dark brown).
Holy crap! Graham is packing a nice bulge there! Kudos, Graham! Now I understand why Valanice keeps coming back!
I'm glad you said it, Lamb, because I really didn't want to. :P
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 05:14:34 PM
Holy crap! Graham is packing a nice bulge there! Kudos, Graham! Now I understand why Valanice keeps coming back!
*new founded respect*
Well, I don't mind long hair on a fantasy guy. Alot of my characters in my Medieval fantasy story have long hair.
Quote from: Blackthorne on March 05, 2011, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 11:54:08 AM
If we ever do another game with Alexander as the protagonist, I'd love to see him with a mustache and puffy 1980s permed hair.
(http://www.infamous-adventures.com/blackthorne/AlexDebarge.jpg)
Bt
HAHAHAH! I don't know what to say about this except Lol XD It'd SO troll me if this picture appeared during KQ6 during that first scene- Alexander breaking the 4th wall and looking at me XD I'd probably fall off my chair XD
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 05:14:34 PM
Holy crap! Graham is packing a nice bulge there! Kudos, Graham! Now I understand why Valanice keeps coming back!
Oh, you completely just violated King's Quest right there.
Quote from: kindofdoon on March 05, 2011, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 05:14:34 PM
Holy crap! Graham is packing a nice bulge there! Kudos, Graham! Now I understand why Valanice keeps coming back!
Oh, you completely just violated King's Quest right there.
Dude. Look at the picture. I think it's GRAHAM who's going to be doing the violating. :suffer:
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 06:17:19 PM
Quote from: kindofdoon on March 05, 2011, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 05:14:34 PM
Holy crap! Graham is packing a nice bulge there! Kudos, Graham! Now I understand why Valanice keeps coming back!
Oh, you completely just violated King's Quest right there.
Dude. Look at the picture. I think it's GRAHAM who's going to be doing the violating. :suffer:
Valanice had a BIG surprise waiting for her when she left that tower ;)
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 06:17:19 PM
Quote from: kindofdoon on March 05, 2011, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 05:14:34 PM
Holy crap! Graham is packing a nice bulge there! Kudos, Graham! Now I understand why Valanice keeps coming back!
Oh, you completely just violated King's Quest right there.
Dude. Look at the picture. I think it's GRAHAM who's going to be doing the violating. :suffer:
No wonder he looks so smug in the picture
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 06:17:19 PM
Quote from: kindofdoon on March 05, 2011, 05:57:21 PM
Oh, you completely just violated King's Quest right there.
Dude. Look at the picture. I think it's GRAHAM who's going to be doing the violating. :suffer:
I really should have seen that double-meaning...coming. ;D
(http://www.infamous-adventures.com/blackthorne/AlexDebarge2.jpg)
Bt
Quote from: Blackthorne on March 05, 2011, 09:46:41 PM
(http://www.infamous-adventures.com/blackthorne/AlexDebarge2.jpg)
Bt
Ah- this is becoming the King's Quest version of Rickroll I see XD
Teh 4th wall! I need eet to hide from him looking at meeeeh!The curls aren't that bad. It's just creepy having him looking at the viewer XD
Quote from: Blackthorne on March 05, 2011, 09:46:41 PM
(http://www.infamous-adventures.com/blackthorne/AlexDebarge2.jpg)
Bt
Hahahaha....I don't think this is something I'm going to get tired of seeing for a LONG while. hahaha
Who is the head? O.o
I just couldn't help myself.
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/Alex_Graham_bulge.jpg)
(http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq219/Nman77/OMGWTF.jpg)
It is officially a meme. To me it is anyways
Quote from: Lambonius on March 05, 2011, 11:28:05 PM
I just couldn't help myself.
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/Alex_Graham_bulge.jpg)
Oh, no. That's just...
He's just wearing a codpiece, anyone know about medieval clothing styles?
Real men wear kilts!
Graham just has a cucumber in his trousers (any fans of Spinal Tap should get this reference ;P )
XD
Amazing how much I derailed the topic with one image!
Back on topic, in the Kingdom of Sorrow novel (I'm reading it now) Graham's blond hair and beard are both described as "short" in length. No Companion-style long mane of hair here.
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 01:13:13 PM
Amazing how much I derailed the topic with one image!
Back on topic, in the Kingdom of Sorrow novel (I'm reading it now) Graham's blond hair and beard are both described as "short" in length. No Companion-style long mane of hair here.
Oh- that's not so bad then :) Although- I DO feel sorry for him now going through all that snow with short hair D:
Quote from: Arkillian on March 06, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 01:13:13 PM
Amazing how much I derailed the topic with one image!
Back on topic, in the Kingdom of Sorrow novel (I'm reading it now) Graham's blond hair and beard are both described as "short" in length. No Companion-style long mane of hair here.
Oh- that's not so bad then :) Although- I DO feel sorry for him now going through all that snow with short hair D:
That's why he had the beard ;p "for protection against the freezing mountain air."
He should've just regrown it in KQ5, then he wouldn't have had to get that cloak.
(Posted on: March 06, 2011, 04:38:10 PM)
Wait a minute...Graham had short blonde hair and a short blonde beard in KOS?
Could this be him in KOS?!:
(http://www.bigleaguescrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/chrisandersen_beard.jpg)
Quote from: Arkillian on March 04, 2011, 09:59:27 PM
Quote from: Baggins on March 04, 2011, 09:01:28 PM
Well there is a picture or two of him with a mustache in the KQ1 and KQ2 manuals! That's halfway there, if you want sort of an idea!
Bet graham would be a goatee or kinda guy (and wouldn't come off looking like his evil double) or maybe a little chin beard + mustache.
Edit: But if it was sierra era beardy graham (KoS blondy), it would probably end up something like the new "profile pic" I just uploaded ;).
Your new avatar made me stop surfing for a second and go wide eyed. I'm sorry, but Graham in a beard is REALLY not how I picture him. It's not bad, but It's... well I can't say it's not Graham, but it's not how I picture him
Reminds me of Lord British.
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070205215961/u5lazarus/images/3/3e/British.gif)
QuoteHe should've just regrown it in KQ5, then he wouldn't have had to get that cloak.
well he was wearing like 10 layers and a cloak before he traded a bunch to the gnome.
Quote from: Baggins on March 06, 2011, 02:16:04 PM
QuoteHe should've just regrown it in KQ5, then he wouldn't have had to get that cloak.
well he was wearing like 10 layers and a cloak before he traded a bunch to the gnome.
I'm only up to chapter 5 ^^; And yeah- the writer did meantion that he wore 5 layers and every bit of his body >.< His neck is exposed though- isn't it? :(
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on March 06, 2011, 01:39:18 PM
Quote from: Arkillian on March 06, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 01:13:13 PM
Amazing how much I derailed the topic with one image!
Back on topic, in the Kingdom of Sorrow novel (I'm reading it now) Graham's blond hair and beard are both described as "short" in length. No Companion-style long mane of hair here.
Oh- that's not so bad then :) Although- I DO feel sorry for him now going through all that snow with short hair D:
That's why he had the beard ;p "for protection against the freezing mountain air."
He should've just regrown it in KQ5, then he wouldn't have had to get that cloak.
(Posted on: March 06, 2011, 04:38:10 PM)
Wait a minute...Graham had short blonde hair and a short blonde beard in KOS?
Could this be him in KOS?!:
(http://www.bigleaguescrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/chrisandersen_beard.jpg)
No, Graham has the beard at the very beginning of the novel, before he even sets out from Castle Daventry.
(Posted on: March 06, 2011, 06:46:08 PM)
I've just started reading
See No Weevil (by the same author as
Kingdom of Sorrow). Early in the novel, Graham is said to have "short brown hair," and there's no mention of him having facial hair.
Also, Valanice in
See No Weevil is said to have auburn hair (a trait taken from the description of her in the KQ2 manual). But in
Kingdom of Sorrow her hair color was repeatedly described as light brown. A small difference, but notable.
And in
The Floating Castle (which was written by a different author) Valanice's hair was at one point said to be "dark." This is, as far as I can tell, the only reference in the entire book to the physical appearance of any member of the Daventry royal family.
Incidentally,
Kingdom of Sorrow does describe Rosella's hair as blonde, which concurs with how she looks in the actual games.
Quotejust started reading See No Weevil (by the same author as Kingdom of Sorrow). Early in the novel, Graham is said to have "short brown hair," and there's no mention of him having facial hair.
'Kenyan Morr' is actually a peudonym for two separate authors. Mark Sumner and Marella Sands.
Mark Sumner I think writes for the Daily Kos nowadays...
Marella Sands is a pseudnym for Martha Kneib (two layers of pseudonyms!).
QuoteAlso, Valanice in See No Weevil is said to have auburn hair (a trait taken from the description of her in the KQ2 manual). But in Kingdom of Sorrow her hair color was repeatedly described as light brown. A small difference, but notable.
And in The Floating Castle (which was written by a different author) Valanice's hair was at one point said to be "dark." This is, as far as I can tell, the only reference in the entire book to the physical appearance of any member of the Daventry royal family.
Depends on the game really, Valanice hair color changes througout the series!
Valanice's Wardrobe (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Valanice's_Wardrobe)
From a kind of brown in KQ2, brown with red highlights in KQ3, mixed red and brown in KQ4, to ginger in KQ4/5, to a light brown in KQ7, back to red in KQ8.
Speaking of things changing color, Alexander's eyes change through the series. Blue eyes in KQ4, brown in KQ6! Edgar's eyes change between KQ4 and KQ7 as well from blue to brown (green as King Otar?). You can even see Valanice's eyes go from blue in KQ2 to brown in some of the later games (though I think she switches back to blue in KQ7). Rosella's eyes are almost always blue but appear brown in KQ6 (and a piece of artwork in Insider Magazine)! Graham's eyes are blue in KQ1 SMS and KQ4, and brown in most other games!
Ah. I'd read that "Kenyon Moor" was a pseudonym but had assumed it was for one person only. Thanks for the info!
I think that the reason a bunch of characters suddenly have brown eyes in KQ6 is simply that the high-resolution character portraits, nice as they are, don't convey eye color very well, so the artists simply gave everybody dark eyes. I'm not sure I'd take them as a good source of eye color info. Heck, Cassima seems to have green eyes in her low-res portrait from the KQ6 DOS version, but they're brown like everyone else's in her Windows portrait.
And I've gotten further in See No Weevil. Rosella's hair is said to be blonde, just as in Kingdom of Sorrow and the games themselves. I guess in KoS she got it from Graham, but in Weevil and the actual games it must be a product of her parents' recessive genes.
Well my point is that the whole royal family has been portrayed with blue eyes or brown throughout the series! There is no strict way to tell which is true!
True that. I like Cassima with green more. I'd draw her with green if I did. Not sure about Alexander. Probably blue. I like blue with black hair :)
Quote from: Arkillian on March 06, 2011, 05:07:25 PM
True that. I like Cassima with green more. I'd draw her with green if I did. Not sure about Alexander. Probably blue. I like blue with black hair :)
Yeah, his eyes are blue in KQ4. In fact, in KQ4 the entire royal family has blue eyes. I wonder if it wasn't actually EASIER to convey eye color in EGA graphics, which featured hand-drawn character sprites that had eyes clearly visible. The later VGA games, with their rotoscoped character sprites and more realistically drawn portraits, actually made it harder to discern eye color, in my opinion.
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 05:14:59 PM
Quote from: Arkillian on March 06, 2011, 05:07:25 PM
True that. I like Cassima with green more. I'd draw her with green if I did. Not sure about Alexander. Probably blue. I like blue with black hair :)
Yeah, his eyes are blue in KQ4. In fact, in KQ4 the entire royal family has blue eyes. I wonder if it wasn't actually EASIER to convey eye color in EGA graphics, which featured hand-drawn character sprites that had eyes clearly visible. The later VGA games, with their rotoscoped character sprites and more realistically drawn portraits, actually made it harder to discern eye color, in my opinion.
This is why I like green and blue. Sure, brown is common, but in low res art, and art where it's hard to tell eye direction, a bright colour is handy. Brown is a non intrusive colour cause it's a neutral colour. Cause of that, it's not particularly exciting to look at.
Why don't any video game characters have hazel eyes? That's what I want to know.
Quote from: Enchantermon on March 06, 2011, 05:28:52 PM
Why don't any video game characters have hazel eyes? That's what I want to know.
My lead characters in my novel do 8) Well... theoretically the whole Dragon family are all brown hair hazel eyed, but there are 2 exceptions... both of them had magic over ruling their inherited appearance... >.> Both are plot reasons, but to be honest, it's cause I wanted the characters to be easily differentiated. The lead and his father are hard to tell apart sometimes.
Hazel happens- it's like an exotic version of brown. Sadly, it has the same artistice qualities of brown too. I try to make my hazel eyes more green than brown. (http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs18/f/2007/168/7/9/Dashing_young_nobel__by_Arkillian.jpg)
Quote from: Arkillian on March 06, 2011, 05:47:24 PMMy lead characters in my novel do 8)
Yay! :D
I just brought it up because I have hazel eyes. ^_^
Sweet! I'm not alone! XD
Well, I'm *natrally* a brunette, but I'm better known for having red hair now. (http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/34566_1384344005367_1134991875_31002344_1581921_n.jpg) I love red hair. I should've been born one <3
I don't think you can get hair that red naturally though, lol.
Quote from: Enchantermon on March 06, 2011, 06:53:24 PM
I don't think you can get hair that red naturally though, lol.
That's fine- I can't get my hair light enough for naturally looking red hair anyways :) My hair is naturally a DARK brown hair. It's also heavy as hell so I can't curl it or do anything except bleach the crap out of it till it plays my ball game. Seriously. Bleaching my hair makes it HEALTHIER. It's so sad. XD
You and me both, Ark! I'm fair more known to friends and so forth as a redhead, but in truth, I'm a brunette :) I also technically have hazel eyes...mine are mostly blue, but with a greenish-hazel ring in the middle, so they sometimes change color.
I have a hazel shirt. In some light it's brown, but in others it's green. OooooooOOOoooohhh!!! ;)
Quote from: KatieHal on March 06, 2011, 07:25:22 PM
You and me both, Ark! I'm fair more known to friends and so forth as a redhead, but in truth, I'm a brunette :) I also technically have hazel eyes...mine are mostly blue, but with a greenish-hazel ring in the middle, so they sometimes change color.
Yeah- hazel is a terrible describing word for it really cause blue comes into it too. Mine tend to lean to green. I tend to colour hazel as an off green colour to show a the brown tint in it if it's zoomed out too far.
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 04:24:18 PM
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on March 06, 2011, 01:39:18 PM
Quote from: Arkillian on March 06, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 01:13:13 PM
Amazing how much I derailed the topic with one image!
Back on topic, in the Kingdom of Sorrow novel (I'm reading it now) Graham's blond hair and beard are both described as "short" in length. No Companion-style long mane of hair here.
Oh- that's not so bad then :) Although- I DO feel sorry for him now going through all that snow with short hair D:
That's why he had the beard ;p "for protection against the freezing mountain air."
He should've just regrown it in KQ5, then he wouldn't have had to get that cloak.
(Posted on: March 06, 2011, 04:38:10 PM)
Wait a minute...Graham had short blonde hair and a short blonde beard in KOS?
Could this be him in KOS?!:
(http://www.bigleaguescrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/chrisandersen_beard.jpg)
No, Graham has the beard at the very beginning of the novel, before he even sets out from Castle Daventry.
(Posted on: March 06, 2011, 06:46:08 PM)
I've just started reading See No Weevil (by the same author as Kingdom of Sorrow). Early in the novel, Graham is said to have "short brown hair," and there's no mention of him having facial hair.
Also, Valanice in See No Weevil is said to have auburn hair (a trait taken from the description of her in the KQ2 manual). But in Kingdom of Sorrow her hair color was repeatedly described as light brown. A small difference, but notable.
And in The Floating Castle (which was written by a different author) Valanice's hair was at one point said to be "dark." This is, as far as I can tell, the only reference in the entire book to the physical appearance of any member of the Daventry royal family.
Incidentally, Kingdom of Sorrow does describe Rosella's hair as blonde, which concurs with how she looks in the actual games.
Consider it this way: KQ are "true" stories being told by different sources, maybe even second hand. That would explain the discrepencies. I was reading two different draft cards for my great grandfather, one from WWI, the other from WWII. One card describes his hair as brown, the other as black. It can happen in real life too.
Mine are also blue and green, but instead of being a little of one and a lot of the other, they're pretty much half-and-half; the outer is blue and the inner is green.
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on March 06, 2011, 07:51:28 PM
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 04:24:18 PM
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on March 06, 2011, 01:39:18 PM
Quote from: Arkillian on March 06, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 01:13:13 PM
Amazing how much I derailed the topic with one image!
Back on topic, in the Kingdom of Sorrow novel (I'm reading it now) Graham's blond hair and beard are both described as "short" in length. No Companion-style long mane of hair here.
Oh- that's not so bad then :) Although- I DO feel sorry for him now going through all that snow with short hair D:
That's why he had the beard ;p "for protection against the freezing mountain air."
He should've just regrown it in KQ5, then he wouldn't have had to get that cloak.
(Posted on: March 06, 2011, 04:38:10 PM)
Wait a minute...Graham had short blonde hair and a short blonde beard in KOS?
Could this be him in KOS?!:
(http://www.bigleaguescrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/chrisandersen_beard.jpg)
No, Graham has the beard at the very beginning of the novel, before he even sets out from Castle Daventry.
(Posted on: March 06, 2011, 06:46:08 PM)
I've just started reading See No Weevil (by the same author as Kingdom of Sorrow). Early in the novel, Graham is said to have "short brown hair," and there's no mention of him having facial hair.
Also, Valanice in See No Weevil is said to have auburn hair (a trait taken from the description of her in the KQ2 manual). But in Kingdom of Sorrow her hair color was repeatedly described as light brown. A small difference, but notable.
And in The Floating Castle (which was written by a different author) Valanice's hair was at one point said to be "dark." This is, as far as I can tell, the only reference in the entire book to the physical appearance of any member of the Daventry royal family.
Incidentally, Kingdom of Sorrow does describe Rosella's hair as blonde, which concurs with how she looks in the actual games.
Consider it this way: KQ are "true" stories being told by different sources, maybe even second hand. That would explain the discrepencies. I was reading two different draft cards for my great grandfather, one from WWI, the other from WWII. One card describes his hair as brown, the other as black. It can happen in real life too.
I simply don't consider the novels to be part of the actual KQ canon. They were only "OK'd" by the then-owners Sierra, but that's it. No oversight by Roberta or anyone else, no blessings from them, nothing. Just allowance to use the intellectual property. So the discrepancy is explained away by that.
Although, would someone like to explain to me how Graham is brunette, Valanice is a redhead, but Rosella is blonde and Alexander has black hair?!
Quote from: mythosopher on March 07, 2011, 02:50:47 AM
I simply don't consider the novels to be part of the actual KQ canon. They were only "OK'd" by the then-owners Sierra, but that's it. No oversight by Roberta or anyone else, no blessings from them, nothing. Just allowance to use the intellectual property. So the discrepancy is explained away by that.
Although, would someone like to explain to me how Graham is brunette, Valanice is a redhead, but Rosella is blonde and Alexander has black hair?!
Yeah- I'm iffy with the novels. They totally didn't get Alexander right in my eyes in the Floating castle, and... I've only just started reading Kingdom of Sorrow, but the writer is REALLY wordy which is annoying. I think now that Graham is out of faery lands he should be more interesting but urgh. They're... missing something and I'm not sure what.
As for hair colour- I KNOW NOTHING.
Blame it on recessive genes.
As I mentioned before, Valanice's hair color changes like every other game! She goes through like three different colors. Graham's hair color changes somewhat, going from dark, to light gray, to dark gray, back to light gray! But not near as severe as Valanice's hair color changes.
QuoteI simply don't consider the novels to be part of the actual KQ canon. They were only "OK'd" by the then-owners Sierra, but that's it. No oversight by Roberta or anyone else, no blessings from them, nothing. Just allowance to use the intellectual property. So the discrepancy is explained away by that.
Well, I understand there might have been 'some' oversight, but it was limited to Sierra publishing/business departments. Like you mentioned there was no oversight by any of the actual King's Quest team members/developers. The only ones involved were some desk jockies, that had no previous experience working on the games.
It was definitely a bit different than say the King's Quest Companion, where Peter Spear, and other authors involved worked directly with Roberta Williams, Ken Williams, Jane Jensen, Lorelei Shannon, and others behind the scenes, in writing the book. Thus as mentioned in the Acknowledgements some of the ideas established in the book were derived from their involvement. Leading to Roberta even endorsing the books, and in some cases, his books influenced the games, and other Sierra published works (ideas he established showing up in Sierra games, or within inhouse guides/magazines published by Sierra). Peter Spear was given behind the scenes access to the games during development, got to pick the people's involved brains, had access to many of the design documents for the games, and also wrote a glowing few previews for various magazines based on his inside knowledge. I understand he and Roberta and Ken actually became friends due to their colloraboration.
QuoteThey totally didn't get Alexander right in my eyes in the Floating castle, and... I've only just started reading Kingdom of Sorrow, but the writer is REALLY wordy which is annoying. I think now that Graham is out of faery lands he should be more interesting but urgh. They're... missing something and I'm not sure what.
Well, I think the Alexander is relatively close to KQ6 Alexander, they even describe Manannan's and slavery influence on him, and how it affected his personality (which are alluded to in a similar way within narration of KQ6 in a few places). Very similar to how it was described in some of the manuals, strategy guides. Granted one descrepency between it and similarly described personality traits in say the Companion, is that TFC suggests that Alexander is a competant sword fighter, and even goes on to say he helps arm and train the guards at one point in the story. The Companion on the other hand suggests that he;
QuoteHowever, swordplay has never been a large part of Alexander's education, either as the slave-boy Gwydion or as the rediscovered Prince Alexander. King Graham believed there were better ways than force to resolve most problems, and Alexander never had the heart to fully the discipline of the blade.
You can read more here;
personality and traits (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Alexander#Personality_and_traits)
QuoteI think now that Graham is out of faery lands he should be more interesting but urgh. They're... missing something and I'm not sure what.
Well, I'd suggest it's probably because they are "novels" and not adventure games. You might notice they lack adventure game-like 'puzzles'. Graham doesn't carry around much in his rucksack, and he barely trades or uses items at all. A ring, a few clothes, at one point uses a frying pan, uses a key, that's all really. Little evidence of Graham's inherent kleptomania... So that essentially represents a change of style. Then again, trying to convert video games directly into novel format while maintaining a direct video game descriptions, is usually a recipe for disaster. Most video game novels that are direct adaptations tend to suck entirely... Novels require a different style. TFC, for example, I think went more for high fantasy, Tolkien style (the wordiness, near description for every action Alexander makes, even the food he eats). The author is no Tolkien however. Still, I think, its my favorite of the the three novels, followed by KoS.
I think another problem between the novels and the games, is that KQ3 and related material in the manuals, and Roberta's own writing, suggest that the Three-Headed Dragon probably started attacking Daventry, only a few years after Alexander's kidnapping. There is no evidence of this given in the novels, with things looking relatively peaceful and happy (although Graham does think about the loss of Alexander in KoS briefly). There is no evidence of the deep melancholy and hopelessness that the Gnome, and narrator describe in KQ3.
This picture of Graham with short brown hair, from the cover of the KQ Companion first edition, very much resembles how his appearance is described in See No Weevil:
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kqc1edgraham.png)
That's true, and his clothes roughly resemble the shirt he was wearing on the cover of KoS.
Hmm, I see you are linking to another site, other than the Omnipedia... But many of those scans/photos originate from the Omnipedia. I hope that site at least acknowledges where the scans were taken from?
I didn't use your scan of the Companion cover; it's my own scan, from my own copy. The only thing from the Omnipedia I've linked to was the illustration of KQ6 Alex and the minotaur, but I linked (via regular link, not a hotlinked image) to your own URL for that one instead of swiping the image.
Ahh ok, no problem then! We share the same edition then heh heh!
I also notice your scan of the last photo, for example is a bit a darker.
HMM, ATM, you wouldn't happen to own the KQ1SMS would you? I've been looking for someone to make a good high quality scan of the boxart... Its interesting because it has color artwork of the Sorcerer, Dahlia/Witch, and the Dwarf stealing the three treasures, and one of the more strange interpretations of Graham. But the only pieces I've found on the net, either show sun damage (faded colors), or are only a very low resolution thumbnail size.
The Omnipedia has the nice high quality scans from the Roberta Williams' Anthology for most of the games. But that didn't include box art for console games, of course.
Sorry, I don't own KQ1 for SMS. Now you mention it, I kind of wish I did! ;)
Well, there is always Ebay! But no guerentees it will have the box :p...
Edit: Hmm, found this scan, this one has never appeared on the net for me previously;
(http://www.theoldcomputer.com/game-box-art-covers/Sega/Master-System/K/King%27s%20Quest.jpg)
Probably the best scan I've seen, but I'd love to see something even higher res.
Wow. That looks absolutely nothing like the AGI original.
And Parker Brothers? I didn't know they were ever involved in the video game business.
The game was built from the ground up Enchantermon. The graphics are somewhat higher resolution than the AGI original (but are built up of essentially pre-designed tilesets).
Actually, the sprites are all original in the game, and look better than most of the sprites in the original (more detail and more color). Graham's sprite is strange to say the least though!
Another bit of trivia, is that the game includes at least one extra inventory item not found in the original. You can pick up a regular three-leaf clover!
Instead of typing, the game uses an interface similar to the old Maniac Mansion, verb + object.
Interesting about the three-leaf clover. I guess it's more of a puzzle then? In the AGI version of KQ1 there are a bunch of three-leaf clovers clearly visible on the ground as well as the one four-leaf clover, but IIRC Graham automatically picks the right one up.
Here's Graham from the cover of the KQ Companion, 2nd edition. I think this cover actually depicts him with the long, dark brown/"almost black" hair that the Companion text describes and its interior illustrations show him having.
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kqc2edgraham.png)
(Again, this is my own scan of my own copy.)
Quote from: Baggins on March 07, 2011, 06:10:57 AMThe game was built from the ground up Enchantermon. The graphics are somewhat higher resolution than the AGI original (but are built up of essentially pre-designed tilesets).
Interesting. I guess there's no reason to reproduce the original exactly if they could do it better on a different system.
Quote from: mythosopher on March 07, 2011, 02:50:47 AM
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on March 06, 2011, 07:51:28 PM
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 04:24:18 PM
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on March 06, 2011, 01:39:18 PM
Quote from: Arkillian on March 06, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: ATMachine on March 06, 2011, 01:13:13 PM
Amazing how much I derailed the topic with one image!
Back on topic, in the Kingdom of Sorrow novel (I'm reading it now) Graham's blond hair and beard are both described as "short" in length. No Companion-style long mane of hair here.
Oh- that's not so bad then :) Although- I DO feel sorry for him now going through all that snow with short hair D:
That's why he had the beard ;p "for protection against the freezing mountain air."
He should've just regrown it in KQ5, then he wouldn't have had to get that cloak.
(Posted on: March 06, 2011, 04:38:10 PM)
Wait a minute...Graham had short blonde hair and a short blonde beard in KOS?
Could this be him in KOS?!:
(http://www.bigleaguescrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/chrisandersen_beard.jpg)
No, Graham has the beard at the very beginning of the novel, before he even sets out from Castle Daventry.
(Posted on: March 06, 2011, 06:46:08 PM)
I've just started reading See No Weevil (by the same author as Kingdom of Sorrow). Early in the novel, Graham is said to have "short brown hair," and there's no mention of him having facial hair.
Also, Valanice in See No Weevil is said to have auburn hair (a trait taken from the description of her in the KQ2 manual). But in Kingdom of Sorrow her hair color was repeatedly described as light brown. A small difference, but notable.
And in The Floating Castle (which was written by a different author) Valanice's hair was at one point said to be "dark." This is, as far as I can tell, the only reference in the entire book to the physical appearance of any member of the Daventry royal family.
Incidentally, Kingdom of Sorrow does describe Rosella's hair as blonde, which concurs with how she looks in the actual games.
Consider it this way: KQ are "true" stories being told by different sources, maybe even second hand. That would explain the discrepencies. I was reading two different draft cards for my great grandfather, one from WWI, the other from WWII. One card describes his hair as brown, the other as black. It can happen in real life too.
I simply don't consider the novels to be part of the actual KQ canon. They were only "OK'd" by the then-owners Sierra, but that's it. No oversight by Roberta or anyone else, no blessings from them, nothing. Just allowance to use the intellectual property. So the discrepancy is explained away by that.
Although, would someone like to explain to me how Graham is brunette, Valanice is a redhead, but Rosella is blonde and Alexander has black hair?!
Well when the books came out, Ken was still the owner/head of Sierra. Ken said Roberta read them and thought they were "Ok".
As for your question, recessive genes? And what do you mean Graham is a brunette--in the games he's always portrayed (when he's young) as having jet black hair. He went prematurely grey because by the time of KQ3 he's only around 42 or 43 years old.
Well as I understand it, Roberta read them, after they had been published. She had no direct input during their writing process. Ken mentions Sierra's main involvement as far as he knew was primarily licensing. Beyond, that there were apparently some discussion among the licensing department on content, but nothing involving the developers themselves (not to the extent Peter Spear, Jeremy Spear, etc had taken with the Companions).
According to Sierra's Interaction Magazine, it described the novels as a way to experience the magic of King's Quest without a computer, allowing readers to follow their favorite characters in an all new adventure-fantasy stories.
That being said, it seems that some of the authors, might have read the companion, as there are a few references (including mentions of Valanice's heritage), that seem to have been taken out of the Companion directly. There are definitely extremely minor references to minor characters, events from the games, such as the fairies of Kolyma, suggesting that the authors had to have played the games, or at least read the manuals/companion (likely an early edition) synopses of the games.
QuoteAnd what do you mean Graham is a brunette--in the games he's always portrayed (when he's young) as having jet black hair. He went prematurely grey because by the time of KQ3 he's only around 42 or 43 years old.
Actually depending on which system you played it on, Graham, has "gray hair" in KQ2 images, strangely enough (well dark gray), black in others. He had more dark "gray" in KQ1SMS as well (and possibly on Apple II version of KQ1). But in general he has the darker hair. Its interesting to note, that Graham's hair is darker grey in KQ5 than it was in KQ4!
I have never played the original KQ for the PCJr, so I don't know what color that system made his hair appear. But in the artwork with the game he had black hair.
Judging from screenshots on MobyGames, in the original PCjr releases of KQ1 and KQ2 Graham's sprite had dark gray hair. This can of course be interpreted a number of ways--the Companion took it as dark brown, whereas the KQ1 SCI remake gave him jet-black hair like Alexander has.
Again, looking at MobyGames, the only systems on which Graham seems to have jet-black hair in KQ1 and KQ2 are the CGA four-color PC Booter release (the first IBM PC release) and the version of the game for grayscale Hercules Monochrome graphics cards.
(Posted on: March 07, 2011, 10:27:20 AM)
Here's Graham as he appears (with jet-black hair, and VERY cartoony) from the original KQ1 manual.
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq1ibmgraham.png)
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq1ibmgraham1.png)
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq1ibmgraham2.png)
(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq1ibmgraham3.png)
Ah, 'Grahame', as he's called in the manual!
Quote from: Baggins on March 07, 2011, 07:45:29 AM
Ah, 'Grahame', as he's called in the manual!
Just as he is in the original PCjr release (but not in the PC Booter version for regular IBM computers, where it had already been changed to "Graham" without the
E).
Ahh, so 'Grahame' actually appears in the in-game text itself? I was under the impression that game always just called him "Graham' in the various versions.
I've only seen 'Grahame' in the original The King's Appeal story, version of the manual.
Quote from: Baggins on March 07, 2011, 07:55:36 AM
Ahh, so 'Grahame' actually appears in the in-game text itself? I was under the impression that game always just called him "Graham' in the various versions.
I've only seen 'Grahame' in the original The King's Appeal story, version of the manual.
"Sir Grahame" shows up in the PCjr version when you talk to King Edward in the beginning of the game. That's how he addresses you.
Quote from: ATMachine on March 07, 2011, 07:33:17 AM(http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/kq1ibmgraham.png)
He looks like he's been lifted from clips of Rocky and Bullwinkle.
Who do you think the moose is in the Antique Shop, and later in Manannan's house? :rofl:
Nooooo..... :'(
;)
Quote from: Enchantermon on March 07, 2011, 08:24:03 AM
He looks like he's been lifted from clips of Rocky and Bullwinkle.
I can think of a four-letter word to describe how this looks, and one of those letters is 's'.
I would agree he looks a little 'sick'.
Perhaps you mean "slim"? He IS rather thin in those drawings. ;)
Well, his cheeks 'sags', but he looks 'sure' of himself, and 'smug'. He doesn't look 'sour'. His clothes look 'snug'. He looks a bit 'soft', but certainly looks 'spry'. He doesn't look much the 'same' as his regular counterpart however. He looks a bit like a 'serf', rather than a 'sire'. He might be a bit 'sore', and his nose looks like a 'slug'. He looks overall a 'slob'. He probably a bit of a 'sass', but not 'scum', and as a knight he is a mideieval 'SEAL'. Some might find him 'sexy', others will not. He certainly is not 'smut'. Others will just think he's a 'shmo'. He might even be a bit 'slow'. He is not a 'sith' or a 'sumo'. He is definitely a 'star', he certainly doesn't 'suck'.
I just realized something I've never noticed before:
Alexander's costume in KQ6 is basically a carbon copy of Kevin Costner's wardrobe in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.
It's SO obvious once you realize it! I can't believe this connection has escaped me for so long.
Quote from: ATMachine on March 08, 2011, 09:05:48 PM
I just realized something I've never noticed before:
Alexander's costume in KQ6 is basically a carbon copy of Kevin Costner's wardrobe in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.
It's SO obvious once you realize it! I can't believe this connection has escaped me for so long.
Alexander?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/Robin_hood.jpg)
You're right, though. It's very similar--right down to the scarf and boots.
OMG IT REALLY IS! Just a different colour scheme and BAM!
It really needs to be memed though :) RE HEAD HIM!
Quote from: ATMachine on March 08, 2011, 09:05:48 PM
Alexander's costume in KQ6 is basically a carbon copy of Kevin Costner's wardrobe in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.
Woah.
(http://grahamkozak.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/whoa-neo01.jpg)