Quote from: kindofdoon on February 28, 2011, 06:29:33 PM
Quote from: Baggins on February 28, 2011, 06:15:38 PM
KQ5 voice acting is hit and miss... some like the falsetto rat or "cedric" are 'annoying'.
Cassima in KQ5 is eh...
It reminds me of M. Night Shyamalan's "The Last Airbender". :X
Don't even get me STARTED on that train wreck... Wait... It's much, much worse than a train wreck.
It was especially tragic because the anime series was phenomenal, and because M. Night's earlier work (The Sixth Sense, Unbreakable, The Village, and Signs), in my opinion, includes some of the greatest films ever made.
Two things that weren't horrible about the movie, though: its visual effects and soundtrack by James Newton Howard (for example, Flow Like Water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mTANle_IcQ). The harmony at 1:10 is achingly beautiful).
Quote from: kindofdoon on March 03, 2011, 06:10:18 PM
Two things that weren't horrible about the movie, though: its visual effects and soundtrack by James Newton Howard (for example, Flow Like Water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mTANle_IcQ). The harmony at 1:10 is achingly beautiful).
Very nice. Too bad it reminds me of that debacle of a movie. >.<
Quote from: kindofdoon on March 03, 2011, 06:10:18 PM
It was especially tragic because the anime series was phenomenal, and because M. Night's earlier work (The Sixth Sense, Unbreakable, The Village, and Signs), in my opinion, includes some of the greatest films ever made.
Two things that weren't horrible about the movie, though: its visual effects and soundtrack by James Newton Howard (for example, Flow Like Water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mTANle_IcQ). The harmony at 1:10 is achingly beautiful).
The show to this day ranks among my favorite shows of ALL TIME. The effects in the movie were good, but not as good as other movies. Granted, I saw the movie once and severed all connections to it. I've been thinking of watching it again, but this time taking note of every little thing M. Night screwed up on. Which is just about everything... I hated the pronunciations of the names especially. Aang is not pronounced Ong. Iroh is not pronounced Eroh or however the heck they pronounced his name... Oh my, we're getting off-topic again...
I never saw the show, but saw the movie during the long plane trip... Found it entertaining... But I guess I didn't have any expectations to be dashed...
Quote from: Baggins on March 03, 2011, 08:33:07 PM
I never saw the show, but saw the movie during the long plane trip... Found it entertaining... But I guess I didn't have any expectations to be dashed...
If you had seen the show, you'd probably have tried to kill M. Night for butchering it. Seriously. He messed up BIG TIME!
Most adaptations butcher the original sources they are based on... Unfortunately...
It just seems to be the bane of movie making...
That's right folks! M. Night's horrible adaptation of Avatar has been named the worst movie of 2010. I completely agree with that vote. Gotta love the Razzies! Also, I'm going to merge the other posts talking about the Last Airbender in here. Makes everything nice and clean. So, discuss the horror that is this movie, and whether or not you actually agree that it was the worst movie of 2010.
EDIT: Splitting and Merging done. Commence discussion!
Quote from: Baggins on March 03, 2011, 08:33:07 PM
I never saw the show, but saw the movie during the long plane trip... Found it entertaining... But I guess I didn't have any expectations to be dashed...
You may not have seen the original anime, but weren't you at least appalled by the horrible writing and amateur acting?
It felt like watching a bad high school play.
At least we're getting a mini-series, just read the wiki page on the Avatar:Legend of Korra and it looks like it might be good...
I thought that was a product of it being a children's movie, actually. I didn't watch it with high expectations. I never expected it to be a work of art.
I just found it be entertaining way to pass my plane trip. Its not one of those kinds of movies I'd see again though.
Quote from: tessspoon on March 03, 2011, 09:19:36 PM
At least we're getting a mini-series, just read the wiki page on the Avatar:Legend of Korra and it looks like it might be good...
Of course Legend of Korra is going to be good; the creators of Avatar are doing it. The movie, however, did not have the involvement of the writers. Legend of Korra is going to be amazing, of that I have no doubt.
Before anyone says anymore- it's not the worst movie out there if it's ok for a plane trip. I know some I'd actively avoid in a plane trip. I haven't seen the actual movie, but I saw the trailer to it and thought it looked pretty. I assume that it all ends there. Its a shame. The last Airbender (anime) had an awesome budget and some beautiful animation. It's a shame when they can't properly convey that. That's what happened with the DBZ movie though. I blame that movie however on Americanisation. Anime movies should be written by Japanese people. There's just certain aspects about asian culture that doesn't come naturally to other cultures. It's the same the other way around too. See, movies that do it right, like Kill Bill employ people from the culture as advisers. Ulma Thurman was actually given tutorial on asian fighting styles by and actual asian for the movie, and Quentin Tarantino is a HUGE samurai film buff. That's why the mix of eastern and western works there (Although he did 'borrow' alot of influence directly from other asian movies....)
India has some similarities to Asian culture though so I can't imagine it'd be too bad.
Anyone into Rifftrax? The old Mystery Science Theater 3000 guys still making fun of movies and they've riffed this one. I've never watched the whole riff though as the movie is god awful, so much that even these guys can't make it watchable.
http://rifftrax.com
Quote from: noonchild on March 03, 2011, 10:02:02 PM
Anyone into Rifftrax? The old Mystery Science Theater 3000 guys still making fun of movies and they've riffed this one. I've never watched the whole riff though as the movie is god awful, so much that even these guys can't make it watchable.
http://rifftrax.com
I'm going to have to give that a watch sometime soon I think...
You know- I always assumed that atleast Aang would be Asian. He's totally from a Buddist temple.
Quote from: Arkillian on March 03, 2011, 11:15:35 PM
You know- I always assumed that atleast Aang would be Asian. He's totally from a Buddist temple.
Good point. The thing about anime style is that you can never truly tell what nationality someone actually is. Also, I just saw Zuko's voice actor in a movie today... When I heard his voice, I was like HOLY CRUD IT'S ZUKO! He said some sort of line (I can't remember what it was exactly) but I followed it up with "Until I find the Avatar". I think it was something like he's never returning home or something. The movie is But I'm a Cheerleader. If you're against Pro-Gay Films, or gays in generals, don't see it. Because the entire movie promotes being gay. That's not important though; just the fact that I saw Zuko's voice actor in a live-action movie nearly made me crap my pants. I was seriously like "WTF?! IT'S ZUKO! IN LIVE ACTION!"
Who?
[spoiler](http://x4ashes4ashes.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dante-basco-black-and-white.jpg)[/spoiler]
Dante Basco?
[spoiler](http://www.trailershut.com/actor-images/dev-patel-118.jpg)[/spoiler]
Or Dev Patel?
Yeah- apparently Avatar the last airbender has alot of innuendo in it there. There's alot of Fire x Air shounen-ai (boy love- the adult version is called seinen-ai) art out there. Asian cultures seem alot more relaxed about homosexuality. Bushido infact promotes it. I'm not certain of the technicalities of it, but it feels more open in their society. You see alot of shounen-ai in even men orientated anime / manga. American laws remove the more obvious acts, but they can't delete all of it. I like how Japanese are more relaxed about that kind of thing :) Western cartoons are very 'Don't touch me' which feels so unnatural. It's no wonder coming out in Western society is such a scary thing :(
Quote from: Arkillian on March 04, 2011, 12:04:31 AM
Who?
[spoiler](http://x4ashes4ashes.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dante-basco-black-and-white.jpg)[/spoiler]
Dante Basco?
[spoiler](http://www.trailershut.com/actor-images/dev-patel-118.jpg)[/spoiler]
Or Dev Patel?
Yeah- apparently Avatar the last airbender has alot of innuendo in it there. There's alot of Fire x Air shounen-ai (boy love- the adult version is called seinen-ai) art out there. Asian cultures seem alot more relaxed about homosexuality. Bushido infact promotes it. I'm not certain of the technicalities of it, but it feels more open in their society. You see alot of shounen-ai in even men orientated anime / manga. American laws remove the more obvious acts, but they can't delete all of it. I like how Japanese are more relaxed about that kind of thing :) Western cartoons are very 'Don't touch me' which feels so unnatural. It's no wonder coming out in Western society is such a scary thing :(
The first one, Dante Basco. And he's cute too...
Speaking of Japanese culture being more relaxed about this sort of thing, I loved the manga of Cardcaptor Sakura. There's tons of stuff in there that would never make it to american television. It's a wonder they still sold it in american book stores for the ages they did. I mean, there's clearly some pretty creepy stuff going on in it. Tomoyo likes Sakura, Sakura likes pretty much everyone until she figures out why she's attracted to everyone (there's a legitimate reason too that actually ties into the plot nicely), Li (I'm not even going to bother spelling his Japanese name. I prefer the japanese name, but I can't spell it for the life of me) likes Sakura and Yukito (Yukito is a guy, btw, and again, there's a reason why he's attracted to Yukito). Yukito likes Toya, and Toya secretly likes Yukito but is too afraid to tell him for half the manga. Oh, and there's some pretty obvious teacher dating a fourth grade student stuff goin on. Oh, and Sakura's father was Sakura's mom's teacher... And Tomoyo's mom was best friends with her, so she hates Sakura's dad, but loves sakura (in a motherly sort of way). Yes, I realize this is a tangent, but the point is that there's a lot of stuff in Japanese culture that Americans would find weird or not age appropriate for their kids. I prefer to take Japan's stance on just about everything; they don't seem to care very much.
Start talking Sailor Moon then. They actually rewrote alot of Sailor Moon cause two of the characters were lesbians, and to make it better, they made one of the sailor scouts a 'guy' that transforms into a 'girl' or something, and there's alot of shounen-ai they couldn't remove with a few other relationships though.
Lol- Card Captor Sakura was a GREAT series, but yes, America did rape the show of alot of it's goodness. I'm not sure how much as I've only read the manga, but I've heard that the anime got chopped alot. Sailor Moon certinly did. I watched the Japanese subtitles of Sailor Moon- stars and they actually didn't show the last season- Sailor Stars... I think cause the Sailor Stars couldn't be changed in gender or something or cause they changed from men to women or something
Wait... lets see what Wiki says-
[spoiler]"Censorship
In the Italian dub, the Starlights were always men, and simply summoned their twin sisters instead of transforming, as the original deception was very controversial in Italy. Similarly in the Russian dub, the Sailor Starlights were consistently referred to as men, even in their Senshi forms (despite the visible breasts). However, they had different voice actors in their civilian and senshi forms. Some countries implied that they were still men, even when transformed, or were women in civilian form. The North American, French, Swedish, Dutch, and Hungarian dubs did not get the rights to this season, so they never appeared. In the Korean dub, the Sailor Starlights were female in both their civilian and senshi forms. This change was made to make them become straight women, but this made Usagi's and Seiya's relationship more like a homosexual relationship than a heterosexual relationship.
In fact, the anime made them transsexuals instead of cross-dressers to avoid the controversy caused by Uranus and Neptune's relationship. This made Seiya and Usagi's relationship heterosexual in the anime. In the manga, Yaten was a heterosexual woman and Taiki was an asexual woman. The anime implies that Yaten has feelings for Minako Aino and Taiki for Ami Mizuno and Makoto Kino, although nothing clear comes from either.
The Starlights are usually falsely attributed to the fifth season not being dubbed into English. Despite popular belief, this is really because Toei would not sell the rights to it. However, it has been reported that an independent British company attempted to produce a dub, but later backed down claiming they were dressed provocatively for a children's program. The French dub reportedly did not dub the series viewing the idea of transsexuals too risque for children, however."[/spoiler]
There you go O.o
You know I see people in this thread praising Asia based on preconceived ideas based on anime coming out of the Asian markets. But what people are failing to realize these are more fantasy than representing the living culture. Take Japan for example there are many places there where a gay person could be fired if their boss is offended by their sexual orientation and could fire them for any minor infraction. As I've read apparently Japanese are fairly closed about personal sexual orientation with many homosexuals marrying opposite sex to show the appearance of normalcy as it could affect their careers.
No you really shouldn't take warped sense of reality from films as representing the actual cultural taboos. This is stereotyping. It's much in the same way that Hollywood is a very skewed representation of American culture, again filled with fantasy. I'm not using fantasy in the 'genre' definition but rather the 'imagination' definition.
Entertainment may be more open and less censored in Japan but there is still a stigma within the actual culture itself in many places in japan. With fewer anti-discrimination protection, i.e. in USA for example it would be illegal to fire someone over their sexual orientation, race, religion, etc.
They are still much less than western cultures. They have also westernised alot since the war. I wont get into the technicality of it though. If you're talking reality checks, the layout of asian films is actually different cause they have a different upbringing to us- one of extreme discipline. I'm not sure how to explain it, but asian films are more humble. They tend to focus on a person's spirit getting stronger more than them getting quickly more powerful. It's not common in asian story lines for an object to be the reason why the character is powerful. Western movies usually have power represented by objects, and they focus more on storyline movement. Both are great story telling methods when done right, but Eastern movies can bore Westerners, and Western movies can be too shallow to easterners (I'm not sure how accurate this generalisation is- this is based off observation and me showing western films to asians, and asian films to westerners)
If westerners make western movies, it works cause the characters are created to be more focused on things the western culture likes, but when they try that with a story created by easterners, what happens is that the focus previously of a village and their well being, and how they lived in harmony with the water and land around them is lost, and is replaced by a sweep of footage of the village and how cultural they are. Sweeping then to showing a disgruntled character wanting to see what the outside world is like- wanting to travel.... Neither are wrong, but the original translation of the movie can be lost. This is why Avatar fans cry, and newbies to the storyline watch it and are entertained.
I'm speculating though- I haven't watched this movie, so I can't tell. IT's also written by a man born in India, so his Indian upbringing may introduce a fresh new perspective on it that works. Perhaps I'll rent it this weekend so I can give a better opinion on it :) I've only watched a little of the anime, so perhaps I'm not biaised yet.
I am giving it as a reason why it may not have worked out. It's why DBZ failed so bad. They just didn't get DBZ at all.
I've also read that the primary consumer of male/male homosexual fantasies (manga/anime/movies) is actually woman in Japan, not by 'homosexuals' as one would think. The primary consumer of lesbian fantasies is men.
This would seem that where taboos will allow something to appear as a fantasy, doesn't necessarily mirror the real-life demographics.
In western society at least American western society, as I understand it, it is usually gay men who are the primary consumers of homosexual material, and heterosexual men are the primary consumers of lesbian material.
You may have recognized Dante Basco from the movie Hook, with Robin Williams, from the '90's. He played Rufio. That's where I know him from anyways. :)
Ummm ... but isn't Avatar a Western cartoon show? It was made in the United States, and while I only saw two episodes (in French), it seemed pretty obvious that it was made in the West, not East (with lots of Eastern influence of course, but something about the art and the dialogue shows its Western roots to me, just as Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water feels Asian even though it is set in Europe).
That said, I have no intention of seeing Avatar:TLA the movie, even if it is decent, because I think they should have cast more Asian-Americans in the lead roles. There aren't that many movies which gives Asian American actors as good an opportunity as Avatar, so when they're denied good roles even there I find it disgusting.
Quote from: glottal on March 04, 2011, 07:56:21 PM
That said, I have no intention of seeing Avatar:TLA the movie, even if it is decent, because I think they should have cast more Asian-Americans in the lead roles. There aren't that many movies which gives Asian American actors as good an opportunity as Avatar, so when they're denied good roles even there I find it disgusting.
Amen. DEFINITELY Aang should've been asian. It would've been nice if more of the cast were asian too though.
Quote from: glottal on March 04, 2011, 07:56:21 PMUmmm ... but isn't Avatar a Western cartoon show?
Indeed. It was a Nickelodeon show.
Quote from: Arkillian on March 04, 2011, 01:16:18 AMLol- Card Captor Sakura was a GREAT series, but yes, America did rape the show of alot of it's goodness. I'm not sure how much as I've only read the manga, but I've heard that the anime got chopped alot.
Yeah, I never watched the English dub, but after watching the Japanese dub I read up on it. They pretty much butchered the entire thing, throwing episodes out of order, cutting out all of the controversial references and making a general mess of things. The intention was to make it more appealing to boys, so the first episode to air was actually the eighth episode of the series, the one in which Syaoran appears for the first time. They also only aired 39 of the 70 episodes. I had the unfortunate experience of hearing the dub voices for the characters, too.....wow, were they bad. Kero sounded like a surfer dude on crack, Tomoyo sounded like a prissy snob.....it was just horrible.
I'm not sure- I was told that the crew of Avatar the tv series were asian. Maybe I was missinformed :/
There certainly could have been Asians on the crew, but it was made in America and produced by an American company. Another example that comes to mind is Disney's Buzz Lightyear of Star Command cartoon; it was an American cartoon (and a darn good one, too!), but if you watch the credits, you'll see several Asian names scroll by (Chinese, I believe, possibly Korean, or both).
Seriously, various Asian-american cultures, and various cultures from a Asia are different things altogether. Just having an Asian name, doesn't necessarily mean someone will have the same aesthetics of someone from across the seas even...
Although, interesting enough I remember reading that at one time Japanese that had settled in Hawaii around the time of WWII, lived closer to older traditional Japanese, pre-turn of the century, than many of the Japanese that lived in Japan. Japan had been extremely westernized by that time. So in some cases, pocket groups of an older tradition may survive by moving from the greater groups.
Hmm, back in the day, when one culture utilized the elements from another culture, or members of an ethnicity, it was called "exploitation"... It's something that should be avoided if possible :p.
Quote from: Baggins on March 05, 2011, 05:08:37 AMHmm, back in the day, when one culture utilized the elements from another culture, or members of an ethnicity, it was called "exploitation"... It's something that should be avoided if possible :p.
Not really. Cultures have been borrowing ideas from each other ever since the first time two cultures ever contacted each other, and it's a bit much to call every instance of a culture taking something from another 'exploitation'. Circumstances matter.
And it is certainly true that Asian culture and Asian American culture are two different, albeit related, things. Classic example: fortune cookies, while served mainly at Chinese-American restaurants, were invented in San Francisco (by Chinese Americans). I hear that they have only recently started offering fortune cookies in China, and that over there they call them 'American cookies' (this is third hand, so don't rely on this information).
Actually as I was trying to point out, 'exploitation' is truly in the eye of the beholder... To some material being used causes people to feel exploited, to others it may make them feel as if their culture is being introduced to others, and is a good thing.
It's a thin red line, based on different circumstances, and opinions of those inside the culture.
For example, having spend time in Hawaii, you learn from many Hawaiians, do not like their culture being used for profit. Many I talked to for example really disliked Lilo and Stitch as it reinforced 'negative' stereotypes, and abused traditions that were sacred to them. Others I talked to, loved it, and liked how it introduced people to their culture, that may not necessarily know about them.
There was a big kerfluffle though, when Disney was trying to market a new luxury hotel, with the Lilo and Stitch brand, and many people protested because their culture was being used, and they didn't receive anything out of it.
Another problem that rises in Hawaii is that Hawaiians don't often get the jobs, working at the Luaus, and other touristy culture related stuff. Often the jobs are given out to other people of the pacific from Tahiti, Samoa, Phillipines etc. Because its apparently cheaper to hire them, than the Hawaiians themselves. So a form of cultural exploitation has risen out of that.
Back to Hollywood, I've read where some Asian actors were upset that for example someone of Chinese or Korean heritage would play someone of Japanese, rather than Hollywood going out and hiring a real Japanese. Again they felt their culture was being exploited, without their sayso or involvement. Of course, there has always been the David Carridine type actors, caucasian filling in the role of Asian.
Generally where the "line is crossed" is when culture, or ethnicity is used to make a profit or gain fame in some way, by someone outside of a culture/ethnicty. In which case the money an fame doesn't go back to the community which the person is "borrowing" from.
I was reading an article about The Last Airbender, where critics were acucsing M. Night Shymalan of exploiting cultures with his movie, and by casting "whites" in the roles. He argued, he is Asian, and could choose to cast whoever he wanted to, and pointed out that he had multi-cultural cast for various tribes, even going as far to hire African-American actors to represent members of the Earth Tribe, a group that were left out of the original tv series apparently. He went as far to call his critics 'racist' for attacking his heritage...
So ya, its a fine line, easily something people can have different opinions on the subject...