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Phoenix Online Studios => The Silver Lining => General => Topic started by: Sir Perceval of Daventry on September 08, 2011, 06:18:46 AM

Title: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Sir Perceval of Daventry on September 08, 2011, 06:18:46 AM
Out of 1-10, give the KQ games each a rating if you want.

For me:
KQ5: 10/10
KQ4: 9.8/10
KQ8: 9.5/10
KQ7: 9.5/10
KQ1SCI: 9.5/10
KQ6: 9.4/10
KQ3: 8.5/10
KQ2: 7.9/10
KQ1AGI: 7.0/10

Unofficial Games:
KQ2VGA: 9.0/10
KQ3 Redux: 8.5/10
KQ3+ (IA): 8.5/10
KQ1VGA: 5.5/10 (it's basically a straight remake of the SCI version. No real originality. The thing that saves it for me is Josh Mandel's participation).
TSL: 3.5/10
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: KatieHal on September 08, 2011, 07:53:06 AM
KQ1AGI should also be listed under unofficial.

Derp. :P See below!
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Delling on September 08, 2011, 08:27:00 AM
Hrmm? I think you mean the KQ1 Tierra remake, Katie. The original KQ1 was an AGI game (AGI was the engine used for KQ1,2,3 and SQ1 and 2, IIRC).

You've given out a lot of 9.5's there... I thought what I'd try to do is rate them relative to each other, so in order of best to worst (somebody's gotta be worst):

KQ6,KQ5,KQ3,KQ1,KQ2,KQ7,KQ4,KQ8

I really like older/original Sierra a lot, but I think I more enjoyed the setting and plot of 1 over 2 and the themes of 3 more than either of those. I'd say 7 and 4 are actually not very far behind 2 and of course 8 comes in a distant last. KQ5 & 6 to me represent the apex in terms of technology of the adventure game.

(KQ6,KQ5),(KQ3),(KQ1),(KQ2,KQ7,KQ4),...(KQ8)

Anyway, I'm not going to overthink it too much: I'll just leave it at that.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: KatieHal on September 08, 2011, 08:41:37 AM
Oops. That is what I was thinking of, the AGDI VGA remake--I'm used to seeing the original KQ1 just listed as that, KQ1. I saw AGi and thought AGDI :)

In which case, then, KQ1 remake is missing from that list.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Baggins on September 08, 2011, 08:42:13 AM
Quote
KQ1AGI should also be listed under unofficial.

Maybe he doesn't play the fan remake? It is more or less a remake of KQ1SCI with only a few minor narration changes.

There are other fan KQ games as well. But I guess he probably hasn't played them.

*King's Quest ZZT (1997)
*King's Quest ZZT 2 (1998)
*King's Quest 2 1/4: Breast Intentions (2005)
*Owl's Quest: Every Owl has it's Day (2007)

Quote
You've given out a lot of 9.5's there... I thought what I'd try to do is rate them relative to each other, so in order of best to worst (somebody's gotta be worst):

You can still make out a best to worst with his ratings more or less...

He has KQ5 as his best, and KQ1AGI as his worst.

He has KQ2VGA as his best fan game, and TSL as his worst.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Blackthorne on September 08, 2011, 08:47:25 AM
I can't really give any of them a number.  But I will say that I enjoyed the first six games more than I enjoyed the last two.  I also really enjoyed all of Tierra/AGDI's games.   I will say our KQ3 was a great effort from a fledgling team, but there's a lot in there we want to go back and re-do.  And we just may.....


Bt
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Baggins on September 08, 2011, 08:59:44 AM
I have a hard time giving a specific number. My 'favorites' change depending on my mood!

But consistently the top favorite games based on the total times I've spent replaying them...

Would include, KQ2, KQ5, KQ6, KQ8... KQ1 SCI is probably very close to here too. KQ6 and KQ5 switch order of preference depending on my mood, and KQ8 is somewhere close to those. KQ2 I think is the game I choose when I just want to play a nice pure KQ game. It might actually be my favorite, on any given day (but its very close to the others)! KQ6 is certainly the second most played game, followed by KQ5. KQ8 takes too long to just casually play it, so I pretty much reserve that to once a year or so (but I love the story and atmosphere, felt the ending was anticlimactic though).

I place KQ4 next most likely. I love the story and music.

Next would probably be KQ1AGI. It's a very simple game... Not much to it. No introduction. But its still fun to go through on occasion. But I feel KQ2 took what KQ1 did and polished it up, with better narration, a more focused story, a nice introduction to set up the story, etc. But kept the nice pure open endedness of KQ1.

KQ3 while I love the story, I find it quite weak in actual execution of puzzles, and its almost too linear in the final act of the game, and almost every solution is pretty much 'spelled' out for you in the manual.... Those details really hurt it for me as far as execution of actual game.

Least favorite is KQ7 bar none...
Fan games don't even hold a candle to the official games... Although I find them interesting and fun diversion.

Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Sir Perceval of Daventry on September 08, 2011, 10:43:36 AM
Added KQ1VGA. I didn't include it because unlike the other fan games it isn't really original at all. KQ2VGA adds almost a whole half a game into the original. Both KQ3's add greater and lesser parts. But to me KQ1VGA never counted since it plays it so straight, and I actually prefer the SCI graphics of KQ1SCI to the VGA version, and I love the KQ4-KQ1SCI Parser.

I've never played any of those other fangames, and I have no intention of playing a sick game (Breast Intentions). It just sounds like something made by a perv, a pointless game.

And I gave 9.5s to a few games because I feel all those games are relatively equal in quality, equal in how much I like them. KQ5 is my ideal KQ game and the game I most revisit and is my favorite. KQ1AGI is ranked last because, while it's the original and I can respect it and what it did for the adventure game genre and enjoy it for what it is objectively, subjectively it's my least favorite to revisit and play. I'm not saying it's bad game--For it's time and context, it's a classic and a great game. But it isn't a game I play often or much enjoy playing. I don't really like AGI games to be honest.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Baggins on September 08, 2011, 12:00:49 PM
Quote
KQ2VGA adds almost a whole half a game into the original.
More like changes the originally completely... Turns the original upside down...

Quote
playing a sick game (Breast Intentions). It just sounds like something made by a perv, a pointless game.

I have played it, its actually pretty kosher and tame, its basically not much more than KQ3 done in reverse, with elements of KQ1 tossed in... It's more silly than anything. Not perverted, and its not 'sick'. There are no sexual elements in the game at all.

This is the about the most graphic nudity you will find in the game (Valanice has just given birth, and the twins are feeding for the first time, and you can still see their umbilical cords);
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110210171631/kingsquest/images/4/45/ValaniceKQ2BI5.png)

QFG2 had more voyarism with the X-Ray specs, ;).
 
KQ2 had far more questionable hidden easter eggs material in the files, and don't forget the sexual scenes in KQ8, the nudity and the dildo.

Mod Warning: partial nudity
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101114012924/kingsquest/images/6/66/Nakedconnor.png)

If you want to avoid a perverted fan game, avoid Quest for Glory 4 1/2, or many of the official Leisure Suit Larry games.

One of the scenes in QFG4 1/2 (involves a scene of sexual nature between the Hero and Hilde the Centauress)
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: KatieHal on September 08, 2011, 12:17:11 PM
Baggins, I'm going to have to ask you to get rid of the picture that's under the spoiler cut. It is seriously not appropriate for this forum. Additionally, please put the KQ8 picture under a spoiler cut.

Edit: As you don't appear to be online at the moment, I'm going to be editing your post for these things myself.

Okay, and with that, please let's stay on topic, which is people's personal ratings and rankings of the KQ series.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Baggins on September 08, 2011, 12:32:25 PM
Ok, if we ever discuss Phantasmagoria games, or LSL games, I'll be sure not to post up any screenshots from the sex, or rape scenes.

Bob and Jan Davidson would be proud!
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: KatieHal on September 08, 2011, 12:42:02 PM
It has been stated clearly, multiple times and in multiple places, that this is a family-friendly forum. It should go without saying that one of the pictures you posted was not remotely within that definition.

If you want to post pictures of that sort, take it to a different forum. Further violations of this policy may result in suspension or banning. If you need to make yourself familiar with our forum rules again, read them here (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=9941.msg311881#msg311881).
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Lambonius on September 08, 2011, 01:09:58 PM
You can come over to IA and post dirty KQ sex pics.  We don't mind!
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Blackthorne on September 08, 2011, 01:28:44 PM
You can come over to IA and post dirty KQ sex pics.  We don't mind!

It's true.  We get patrons of a more mature age.  So you can post immature pics like that QFGIV.5 one!


Bt
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Baggins on September 08, 2011, 01:32:07 PM
LOL!

I've always wondered what Royal Quest I would have been like...
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Bludshot on September 08, 2011, 05:35:55 PM
I guess the quick and dirty ratings are (best to worst):

KQ6
KQ3
KQ4
KQ1
KQ7
MOE
KQ5
KQ2

Unofficial

KQ2VGA
KQ3 Redux
TSL

Can't remember KQ3+ or KQ1VGA to well, but it seems silly including them since they were straight remakes.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Damar on September 08, 2011, 06:39:49 PM
My official list of awesomeness goes as follows (including arbitrary number values):

KQ6 - 10
It's my favorite of the bunch.  The Realm of the Dead and Isle of the Sacred Mountain just push it over the edge for me.
KQ3 - 9.5
I really, really enjoy this game.  It keeps you on your toes.  I also, for some reason, actually liked typing in all those spells.  There's probably something wrong with me.
KQ2 - 9
This result is highly skewed due to nostalgia.  It's my first King's Quest and my first computer game ever.  I love this game.  Without the nostalgia, I would have it above KQ7.  Even though it's knocked for being very similar to KQ1, I do feel it improved on the formula in all areas.  The graphics were improved, the parser interface was improved, and the story was improved.
KQ4 - 9
Just an all around great game.
KQ5 - 8
It's a great game with fantastic music (the best in the series, I think) but it does lose a point due to how long it kept me in the forest trying to figure out how to open the pouch and make an emerald trap.  And because I just always enjoyed playing KQ4 a tad more than 5.
KQ7 - 6.5
I really did not care for the cartooniness of this game.  Or the uptight, yet whiny, Valanice voice or the valley girl Rosella voice.  Like, did you hear her?  Gag me with a spoon, for serious!  Gah!  But it was still a fun game.  Even with the song at the beginning.
KQ8 - 6
I really enjoyed this game, for all I knock it.  But it just doesn't feel like a King's Quest to me.  Yes, I know it is a King's Quest, but I just feel that they missed a lot of opportunities to tie the game in more with the series.  I've posted my feelings in some other topic, so I'll just leave it at that.
KQ1 AGI - 5
I don't care if it did start it all.  I don't really enjoy playing this game.  Also, my family never got a hold of this game until we finally got a better computer and the King's Quest Collection, so this game doesn't even hold nostalgic value for me.  It's just a very flat game because I know how much even the second game improved on everything this game was.
KQ1 SCI - 3
This was just unnecessary.  It didn't even have the benefit of being in VGA like the cooler, but still completely unnecessary SQ1 remake.  I disliked the lightened tone of the story (goofy sea snakes in the moat and the Graham shaped hole in the ground when you fall off the beanstalk.)  And if I ever, and I mean EVER, find the person who replaced the easily navigated mountain stairs with that abomination of a ramp (and then had that stupid dwarf run up on you as you tried to navigate them) I will not be held responsible for my actions.  There is not one thing I like about this remake.  No exaggeration.  Not a single thing.  Even the graphics just don't impress me much, even as an improvement from AGI.  At best, this game just exists for me.  At worst, it has that ramp.  That ugly, idiotic ramp that I somehow always think will actually be more easily navigated than the beanstalk (which is also more difficult to climb) on the way down.

As for the unofficial games, I don't feel like ranking them because, well, they're unofficial.  No matter how good they are, they're not part of the official universe.  Besides, it's more complicated than just assigning a number.  For example, I really enjoyed KQ2+ but they did things I have a major dislike for.  I don't like all the Father nonsense, and vampires are never, NEVER heroes.  Stake all the blood sucking parasites, that's what I say!  I'm on Team Van Helsing!
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Baggins on September 08, 2011, 07:21:53 PM
Quote
As for the unofficial games, I don't feel like ranking them because, well, they're unofficial.  No matter how good they are, they're not part of the official universe.  Besides, it's more complicated than just assigning a number.  For example, I really enjoyed KQ2+ but they did things I have a major dislike for.  I don't like all the Father nonsense, and vampires are never, NEVER heroes.  Stake all the blood sucking parasites, that's what I say!  I'm on Team Van Helsing!

If there was a like button!
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Bludshot on September 09, 2011, 08:39:46 AM
and vampires are never, NEVER heroes.  Stake all the blood sucking parasites, that's what I say!  I'm on Team Van Helsing!


That seems a bit unfair given the nature of their curse.  I agree that they shouldn't be pure forces of good, but it seems silly to forever keep them in the same crowd as mindless monsters.  There is a decent vampire RPG called Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines, which while having some gameplay quirks is pretty enjoyable since the plot revolves around a strictly vampire agenda.  This means you can have good or bad motives for the vampire community, but as a whole you wouldn't be a conventional hero.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Baggins on September 09, 2011, 09:37:09 AM
Vampire: The Masquarade, is a product of the modern pop culture...

Traditionally in ancient myths, vampires were always evil, representing the darkest forces in the world (Satanic, or whatever dark beings were in other cultures).

Dracula the novel actually pretty much stuck to the more ancient Nosferatu myths for example.

It makes more sense for KQ, due to KQ nature, that the series would make references to classic myths/fairy tales(described in the classic novel Dracula), as opposed to more late 20th century/21st century modern reinterpretations...
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Bludshot on September 09, 2011, 01:18:36 PM
I can respect that.  However from my own point of view the series doesn't have great consistency when it comes to themes like that.  In KQ7 the troll kingdom is apparently run by a perfectly nice guy, and in KQ4 they made a point of having Edgar play a good role despite his roots as an evil...green thing (I know in KQ7 they reveal that he was a fairy all along, but when they made KQ4 they didn't know that).  They reference Beauty and the Beast, a story dedicated to the redemption of a damned noble.

Plus there are plenty of instances of references that aren't particularly ancient or even medieval.  The entire Isle of Wonder is from Alice in Wonderland, which while dated is certainly not an established piece of mythology.

I think it's fine to dislike Caldaur since it isn't really your thing, but I think he works fine in a King's Quest game.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: DawsonJ on September 09, 2011, 04:23:59 PM
For me, personally, this is my best to worst list:

KQ6
KQ5
KQ7
KQ4
KQ8
KQ2
KQ1
KQ3

KQ8 is only above 2 and 1 due to the graphics - otherwise it ties with 3 for least playable.
My personal opinion, only. Clear? Ok.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Baggins on September 09, 2011, 05:03:00 PM
why should you have to feel you need to defend where you place KQ8? These are just personal opinions!
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Sir Perceval of Daventry on September 09, 2011, 05:26:17 PM
why should you have to feel you need to defend where you place KQ8? These are just personal opinions!

Because the KQ fanbase is one of the most closed minded fanbases in existence. Anything outside of the norm, the norm being "KQ5-KQ6" is tolerated at best; hated at worst.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: DawsonJ on September 09, 2011, 06:48:55 PM
Well, to put KQ3 and MoE on the same level is often considered blasphemy. Hence, my defense.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Baggins on September 09, 2011, 07:18:08 PM
I put KQ8 above KQ3 and closer to my top 3-4 games in the series ;).
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Damar on September 11, 2011, 08:19:14 PM
Dracula the novel actually pretty much stuck to the more ancient Nosferatu myths for example.

Actually, the original folklore was more about the vampire robbing communities of the limited good of society.  They were greedy creatures, and evil.  They were also created by the liminals in society, the people who lived or died on the outskirts.  The book Dracula takes more updated (for the time) ideas.  In particular, Dracula as a story is all about how awesome England is (and by extension the Dutch are ok too.  And uncultured Americans are good as long as they have a gun, a knife, and they die in the end.) and how horrible the east is.  Stoker was really into atavism and Dracula was written with the physical appearances of being an evolutionary throwback.  It's really a racist little book.

But yeah, I see vampires as parasites.  I don't see them as redeemable.  They're undead and they suck people's blood, turning them, against the victim's will, into the undead.  I definitely don't see them as tragic or heroic figures.  Heroes don't act like parasites.  And your immortality is not a tragic curse if all you need to do to end it is hang out outside past your bedtime.  So I'm really just not a fan of vampires.  I don't get their appeal.  Yet the vampire has persisted from folklore to embodying the specific fears of each different society and time.

Anyway, back to King's Quest, I guess.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Sir Perceval of Daventry on September 11, 2011, 09:23:10 PM
Everytime I watch a playthrough or Let's Play of KQ8 I like it more and more...It's rapidly becoming my favorite, next to KQ5 and possibly KQ4.
Title: Re: Rate the KQ games
Post by: Fierce Deity on September 11, 2011, 09:45:06 PM
Everytime I watch a playthrough or Let's Play of KQ8 I like it more and more...It's rapidly becoming my favorite, next to KQ5 and possibly KQ4.

Yeah, I like it a lot. I didn't understand it at first because it was so vastly different from the rest of the series, but I liked the new direction it took. And like I had said in another thread, MoE helped define an action RPG genre that became popular much later in time. MoE is hardly as advanced as an Elder Scrolls title, but for what it was, and for the developers who made it, it was an admirable attempt and a very rewarding experience in hindsight. If I can get it working on Windows 7, I'm definitely going to give it another playthrough.