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Phoenix Online Studios => The Silver Lining => General => Topic started by: SOUL FIR3 on September 24, 2011, 09:11:18 PM

Title: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: SOUL FIR3 on September 24, 2011, 09:11:18 PM
While eagerly awaiting the upcoming release of the fourth TSL episode, i went on a nostalgic trip back to the early Kings Quest games starting from the VGA remakes to the original 5th, 6th and 7th Kings Quest volumes, and reaccustomed myself to the mind boggling puzzles, quirky characters, engaging dialogue and appealing graphics, which in turn excited me even further about the upcoming final TSL chapters.

However i noticed that i forgot about replaying the 8th volume, the mask of eternity; possibly because i had no time for the longevity of loading screens, slow paced action sequences, and just generally boring gameplay (and not to mention the hassle of playing it on a non-xp machine). Although this saddened me abit, because despite the enjoyable storyline, environment concept and sheer valour of the main character, Sir Connor of Daventry, i vowed never to bother playing that particular volume ever again after once witnessing my brothers disappointment with the game when i was younger, and again my own when enduring the game myself last year. We must admit... what a shocking piece of s*** that game was, ha ha  :-\ :P

Anyway, blah blah blah, when thinking about the cute and funny references to the mask of eternity all hidden here and there around the first three TSL episodes (for instance, when the narrator cheekily states "Ti's beyond my reach" when Graham intends to grab something too far away), one cant help but wish that the 8th Kings Quest volume was more playable and indeed more like the rest of the epic series, in order to truly continue the rich adventure feeling.

So an idea vaguely wafted through my mind, and i wondered if anyone had thought of redesigning the The Mask of Eternity, the same way other independent designers remodelled the first three (and currently the 4th) Kings Quest volumes into a noob-friendly yet equally entertaining point-and-click adventure game. It would be great (in my opinion, and hopefully many more KQ fans out there) to encompass all of the characters, puzzles and realm concepts of Mask into a friendly interface more reminiscent of 'Absence Makes The Heart Go Yonder', 'Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow', and even the cartoony style of 'The Princeless Bride'

What are the opinions of other Kings Quest fans on this idea?  ;D
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Deloria on September 25, 2011, 04:04:26 AM
Do you want to make it? :P
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Delling on September 25, 2011, 05:57:05 AM
Well, the idea has come up before, but I don't think it ever gained much traction. Personally, I don't think it's a bad idea, but it may be difficult or problematic to execute.

POS wouldn't be making it, of course. After TSL, they are moving on.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: SOUL FIR3 on September 25, 2011, 07:42:30 AM
I would love to make it, though unfortunately I'm just a simple fan of the games; i studied photography rather than game programming and design. I merely wondered if the idea would be popular enough to inspire a group of people with the means to take the idea further, and was curious as to how many other fans shared my views.

Though POS are doing such an amazing job on this last chapter of the Kings Quest series, a volume in which just a few years ago many believed to be a flaccid idea, this is easily more than any KQ fan can ask for.

Still though, ti's a shame bout the 8th being so different from the rest, really breaks the fluid storyline and feel of the series. Dang im gonna be sad when this is all over!
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: wilco64256 on September 25, 2011, 10:27:36 AM
Maybe that's what Telltale will do - remake Mask of Eternity in the same style they did the Back to the Future games.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Fierce Deity on September 25, 2011, 04:26:29 PM
A VGA remake of Mask of Eternity would be an entertaining notion, but I don't know how it would translate through production. The game was built from the ground up to be an action title, if the puzzles were changed to fit the classic King's Quest style, it would probably work. I also think the story would need to be altered a bit, cause otherwise the story would be pretty bland. Go to point A, pick up a mask piece, go to point B, pick up a mask piece, etc. Connor would have to go through similar trials as the royal family did to have the puzzle-format fit aptly. I would have no problem being on-board the project, but I don't know much about video game design either. That being said, I would support a VGA remake of Mask of Eternity entirely.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: DawsonJ on September 26, 2011, 01:08:39 AM
That sounds like a cool idea. If only someone could do it. Personally, I'm too busy drooling over TSL and Kingdom of Sorrow to mourn the lack of an unofficial MoE, but it would be cool if some group were to do it. (Hopefully without a British-sounding cast. ;) )
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: jazzguy+87 on October 02, 2011, 12:46:16 PM
I'm on board. I'm a writer, composer, and have minor adventure game studios programming experience.  Any artist?

(Posted on: September 28, 2011, 06:39:46 PM)


I was thinking what if the pieces of the mask were spread through the lands from the other 7 games? Crazy right?
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: DawsonJ on October 02, 2011, 05:51:28 PM
I'm on board. I'm a writer, composer, and have minor adventure game studios programming experience.  Any artist?

(Posted on: September 28, 2011, 06:39:46 PM)


I was thinking what if the pieces of the mask were spread through the lands from the other 7 games? Crazy right?

That sure would've made a better game! Maybe their characters would have some personality - more than can be said for most of MoE's characters.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: jazzguy+87 on October 02, 2011, 10:25:36 PM
I just love the idea of MOE being connected to the rest in some way other than the title.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Fierce Deity on October 03, 2011, 05:12:54 AM
I just love the idea of MOE being connected to the rest in some way other than the title.

But wouldn't it being connected to every single title in the series be kind of pushing it? If Connor had to go to every land to pick up a mask piece, it would almost feel like an AGDI remake for the entire series with the premise of MoE. Not that it'd be a bad thing, but I don't think it would make MoE any better, it would just be "pure" fan fiction. If MoE had a remake, I think they could keep all of the lands that were introduced in the original title and still make it work.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: KatieHal on October 03, 2011, 07:37:38 AM
I think that would be a great way to make it feel more like a KQ game. Revisit some old lands, and add one or two new ones for Connor to explore.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: jazzguy+87 on October 03, 2011, 08:24:29 AM
I think my concern is that I didn't find any of the lands from MOE that captivating.  That may be due to the fact the came was so "hack and slash" instead of story and character driven.

I can see adapting the some of the MOE lands, but you could still revisit a land or two.  Especially an updated Daventry that looks similar to KQ1.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Fierce Deity on October 03, 2011, 07:31:48 PM
I suppose. I think what I liked most about the lands in MoE was that they were completely new. I guess one could argue (and by one, I mean Baggins) that Daventry was just a more updated version of the old Daventry, that the Dimension of Death was the Land of the Dead, and the Frozen Reaches could easily be any of the mountains that separated Daventry from the outside lands (Serenia or the icy regions that Alexander explored prior to reaching Daventry).

There was never really any concrete evidence that suggested that this MoE land of Daventry was completely separate from the old land of Daventry. There's no evidence that suggests that it's the same either. But if one can use their imagination, I don't see why the Daventry in MoE was so different that it can't be considered a part of the series and that it would have to adapt to the old world of Daventry.

Once again, I'd be for Connor exploring the old lands, I just think the old lands would have to be more involved than just having a piece of the mask fall in their territory. For instance, if Daventry turns to stone, why not have a Kolyma that endures a drought, or an Isle of Wonder that is filled with clear-minded and sensible creatures (Oh no!!! :o). Also, the Temple of the Sun, Archons, and the Mask of Eternity would have to be connected to the outside world and not just Daventry (assuming the Mask only affected the land of Daventry and not the world of Daventry in the original MoE). As long as the inclusion of the other worlds doesn't ruin the integrity of the original story, I'd be on board all the way.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: jazzguy+87 on October 03, 2011, 08:21:51 PM
I like the idea of the pieces affecting each of the lands differently. That could certainly mix things up.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Fierce Deity on October 03, 2011, 08:45:06 PM
I don't know if anybody would be interested in bringing Etheria or Eldritch into play, but I know an interesting story could be had with Connor meeting the royal family members that are ruling in their respective kingdoms. Connor meeting with Alexander would make for an epic alliance (or feud?).
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: KatieHal on October 03, 2011, 08:51:40 PM
It could be good for comic relief--the Mask has made all the people of Ooga Booga alive! Noooo!!
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: jazzguy+87 on October 03, 2011, 09:09:41 PM
Alexander and Connor would rock. I would love to see ooga booga land as a green and flourishing. That would be terrifying.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Fierce Deity on October 03, 2011, 09:59:59 PM
It could be good for comic relief--the Mask has made all the people of Ooga Booga alive! Noooo!!

I would love to see ooga booga land as a green and flourishing. That would be terrifying.

I'm thinking of a very sunny and bright area. Almost a perfect example of a Disney movie, thus poking fun at the direction that they were going with in KQ7 to begin with.

Of course, if Connor succeeds in transforming Ooga Booga back to it's original gloomy environment, he may question in a monologue if turning the land back to normal was the 'right' decision.

The only reason I'd want to see different effects across the world is because if the significance of the Mask was to uphold Light, Order, and Truth, then wouldn't the repercussions of its demise be Darkness, Chaos, and Lies? Petrification is fine, but it's hardly as catastrophic as what "could" happen.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: jazzguy+87 on October 04, 2011, 05:24:28 PM
True. I would imagine that you could really make previous land almost entirely different from the way we've seen them before.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: SOUL FIR3 on October 05, 2011, 03:13:02 AM
Woah! Really enjoying the ideas being spun up! Move over Etheria's Weaver of Dreams! :P

I think a lot of great topics have been brought up here. I must agree with 'Fierce Deity' regarding new and old realms. Although i would also love to see some old lands revisited and old characters reunited, i actually enjoyed the raw concepts of the new realms explored in MoE. However, whose to stop these drab environments being improved? For example, if this volume was actually remade, it would be great to see the Dimension of Death modelled to more closely reflect 'The Land of the Dead' as visited by Prince Alex in KQ6! (Thankyou to Fierce Deity for raising that point about similar realms) Connor could even meet with Death himself (as he does in MoE, i believe) and have a reminiscent conversation about a young courageous prince who challenged him not too long ago, very much like Connor! :D Using this idea of mixing old and new as a foundation, fans could explore favourite realms from earlier volumes, and the original MoE story wouldn't be in too much danger of being drastically changed.

I would also like to imagine that the Mask did infact effect the whole world, rather than just Daventry. Although Prince Alexander is great and courageous and frankly my favourite character of the series (thanks to KQ6), I think it would be more suitable if humans from all over had been affected the same as those in Daventry, purely making Connor the hero of the story; this would afterall keep the KQ 'rags to riches' underdog trend going. Afterall, both Graham and Alexander both climbed to royalty from poverty despite the paramount odds against them, why not Connor as well? 8)

This being said, the Inverted Ooga-Booga idea is also some food for thought! Considering the unicorn in the Daventry Realm (MoE) had been transformed into a hideous beast, although that case was due to that dang Swamp Realm Witch, it would be amusing if non-human characters from the other realms and lands had been transformed in a similar way! 

As long as the game is more enjoyable, the storyline isn't harmed, and the epilogue is far more longer and satisfactory than the disappointing five second clip after Connor restores the Mask and defeats Lucreto in MoE,  i will be one happy chappy!  :rofl:

(BTW... Lucreto? Black Cloak society? i wonder if these two are connected at all in the fourth or fifth TSL episodes by any chance... Should definitely make a new topic about this, bahah)  :o
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Fierce Deity on October 05, 2011, 07:50:44 PM
I would also like to see Lucreto's character get more exposure. It seemed like he had more reason to do what he did. He committed a vile act and then Connor punished him for it. I think the real King's Quest approach would involve character development and at least some more dialogue showing that Lucreto is not just an insane Archon bent on world destruction.

I agree with SOUL FIR3, the epilogue definitely needs to be longer. At least it could tell what happened to Connor and what happened to the world once the Mask was put back together. It was insinuated, but never actually stated.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: SOUL FIR3 on October 05, 2011, 08:14:46 PM
Quote
I think the real King's Quest approach would involve character development and at least some more dialogue showing that Lucreto is not just an insane Archon bent on world destruction.

Another great point! The entire world had been a mere inch away from total irreversable peril, and Connor found out nothing about Lucreto except that he was a good guy turned bad. Lame!

I would definately like a more in-depth story about Lucreto, just like Mordack, Alhaserad and Malicia recieved in KQ5-7, aswell as the outstanding character analysis given to Hagatha and Manannan in the several KQ2-3 vga remakes and particularly the current TSL episodes. Lets just hope more story is given about Lolotte in the still awaited KQ4 remake.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: jazzguy+87 on October 08, 2011, 09:23:18 PM
Yep. I think that this particular chapter in the King's quest saga could have been quite different. I think it had potential to get back to the roots of the series but spiraled into a very different director by trying to be ground breaking.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Fierce Deity on October 08, 2011, 11:02:17 PM
Well, in all fairness, it was groundbreaking. I liked Mask of Eternity. I just feel like giving the fans what they wanted could have made the title a tad bit more successful. In hindsight, it all made sense. Sierra was trying to reinvent the series, and they did. They tried to appeal to a different audience, and they did. It might not have been the King's Quest VIII that everybody was hoping for, but it wasn't a horrible game. I played through it, and remember that I had to play through it again immediately after beating it because I liked the story, the characters, and the environment so much.

Of course, I'm not saying that it couldn't have been better. Each time I played the game, even though I enjoyed it, I thought of things I would have done to make the story feel more epic. Lucreto explaining his reasons for breaking the Mask was one of them. What is the Mask really? And why would smashing it make things right for Lucreto? Connor was the hero because he was the only one who was animate, but what if he had more of a connection to Lucreto, the Mask, and the Kingdom of Daventry? Then him being the hero would make more sense, rather than relying on him as a last resort.

The story was great, second to King's Quest 6 in my opinion. I think a remake could really bring out the potential that MoE has locked up inside.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: jazzguy+87 on October 09, 2011, 07:04:14 PM
This is random, but I swear when I was reading about KQVIII before I played it, that I was lead to believe that Connor was a statue before the mask split and was brought to life as the reverse to what happened to everyone else. I realize this was false when I played the game, but it was also an interesting idea.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Fierce Deity on October 09, 2011, 08:45:46 PM
This is random, but I swear when I was reading about KQVIII before I played it, that I was lead to believe that Connor was a statue before the mask split and was brought to life as the reverse to what happened to everyone else. I realize this was false when I played the game, but it was also an interesting idea.

This was an original idea from the team. Connor was supposed to be a statue turned human, but they changed it because I assume they felt the 'Pinocchio-eque' persona would leave Connor's character rather bland (if he wasn't bland enough already  :P).

It's an interesting concept, but how far would his character development go if he were just a statue? After he saves Daventry, would you turn him back into a statue? If this were the case, I'd turn him back into a statue and have him placed in the middle of the town square, making him immortalized for future generations.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: jazzguy+87 on October 10, 2011, 08:51:08 PM
Well, we don't usually make statues without a model or a persona in mind.  He could have those memories and personality. Not any more random that simply being the guy that got hit with a shard.
Title: Re: Entertaining an idea..
Post by: Fierce Deity on October 10, 2011, 09:16:47 PM
I would only wonder where this persona came from. An inanimate object turning into a lively figure would be no different then a human being born. Clearly, his persona would have to be one of a naive foreigner, having never experienced life. Like I said, an interesting concept, but there might have to be an explanation as to whether he was a statue that was built from scratch, or maybe a victim of Medusa, etc. His personality in the original title wasn't very interesting. He reminded me of a noble commoner, but despite his ambiguous upbringing, he was respectful to each and every character he encountered, except Lucreto. If you were to make him a statue, I'm just curious as to how he would act when he is brought to life.