Continuing my series of retrospective reviews and opinions on each KQ game, how do you feel about King's Quest VII: The Princeless Bride? Upon release in November 1994, it was released to mixed reviews, with some loving the game, others hating it, and still others feeling mixed feelings about it. It was arguably the most revolutionary KQ game (in terms of changing gameplay elements) since King's Quest V.
Featuring Don Bluth style graphics and an enchanting 2D, Disney-esque world, it too continued the King's Quest tradition of pushing new technology as far as it could be taken, featuring a stunning a Disney style introduction, cel shaded animation, a hot cursor interface, cinematic cutscenes and a light hearted atmosphere. It was the first KQ game to be developed at Bellevue, Sierra's new Headquarters, the first King's Quest game which could only be released on CD due to it's large size, and the only King's Quest game which was not written by Roberta Williams, though she co-designed and co-directed it. It was also the only King's Quest game which was designed by Roberta while she also designed another game, Phantasmagoria. It was the first King's Quest game to feature two protagonists, the first to not feature any narrator and the first designed on a chapter based system.
Everything I like about KQ7 is eclipsed by things that bother me. I liked the different areas and lands that were presented. Ooga Booga successfully juggled somewhat disturbing imagery and child-friendly lightness that King's Quest was known for. The desert was very spare and had an appropriately desolate feel. I just really did like the locations a lot. Except Falderal. That was a bit over the top. Still fairly King's Questy, though.
That said, I thought the cartoony style detracted from the game. Suddenly these characters we'd grown up with were cartoons without the right number of fingers. Rosella sounded like a goofy valley girl and was certainly not the same character type that we saw in KQ4. Valanice also came across as fairly whiny to me. I also found it weird that I was supposed to be happy that Edger won over Rosella in the end. The guy kidnapped Rosella twice and has twice worked for evil fairies. He needs professional help, not a pity date.
The main thing I really disliked about the game, though was the design. The interface was completely idiot proof, which detracted from the challenge. I want to explore my surroundings, not wave a wand over hotspots. I have also never been a fan of chapters or the retry function. Part of the fun of these games was constantly saving and staying on your toes. The retry function removes part of the challenge. And the fact that you can just pick up at any chapter you want is pointless to me. It only exists for someone to jump to the final chapter and give themselves a pat on the back for "beating" the game. I guess it also exists as a means of picking up at a particular part of the game because there are no saves either. Still, it fragments the game in my opinion.
Also, some of the puzzles and story in the game seemed confused and poorly thought out. A perfect example would be Valanice's inability to reach a foot in front of her and pick up a wheel of cheese. No, you need a crook. She barely even reached for the thing! It also bothered me when Rosella had to disguise herself in Ooga Booga. A cloak just appears by magic. No explanation. Nothing. The writers created a need for Rosella to disguise herself, but then didn't know how to do it. They either should have found a more organic way of managing that, or just not made Rosella need to disguise herself. She was walking around Ooga Booga already. Why suddenly change things? And how did Edger get on Tsepish's horse to rescue Valanice? It didn't make sense, but they needed to get Valanice off that mountain somehow. Or, rather, they could have had one of the winds take her, but then they wouldn't have had a lame cliffhanger of Valanice being left alone. Again, the writers wrote themselves into a corner for no reason and didn't even attempt to get out of it. This all seems petty to me as I write it, but it just gave the game a sloppier feel than past games.
By and large it was still an enjoyable play for me, but nowhere in the same ballpark of previous games. Well, except for KQ1, which I've just never enjoyed all that much, but that's a post for the other topic.
I always liked king's Quest VII. While I'll admit some of the puzzle were weak, and the interface was too simple, I thought the art and music were outstanding.
I love the detail in the art. I know that pixelation is all retro, and 3D environments are somewhat more immersive, but I think the game has the best graphics of any KQ game.
It was also great to have multiple payable characters, and to visit the same lands at different times as different characters. I cannot think of another game with those elements.
While it isn't my favorite KQ, I remember it fondly.
This about sums it up.
(http://rantingirregular.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/dog-poop.jpg)
Use your words, Lamb.
Quote from: KatieHal on October 01, 2011, 07:51:07 AM
Use your words, Lamb.
Hahaha...but every time I use my words, I get into trouble!
Never liked it. It was far too silly for me and the animation was horrible. Backgrounds didn't look too bad in some areas, though. But it's all just too silly. So silly it's not even funny. Cringe-worthy. Hated the game. I still must finish it one of these days, though.
Quote from: MusicallyInspired on October 01, 2011, 09:31:10 AM
Never liked it. It was far too silly for me and the animation was horrible. Backgrounds didn't look too bad in some areas, though. But it's all just too silly. So silly it's not even funny. Cringe-worthy. Hated the game. I still must finish it one of these days, though.
For some reason I imagine you saying that in Graham Chapman's voice.
Lol! It actually works quite well! I promise it wasn't intended, though.
It's a little astounding that after the huge success of KQVI Roberta Williams took almost none of the positives over to VII. I realize she felt the series needed to evolve but it just I find it uncanny she removed all the pluses of KQ (points system, 5 senses replaced by a single cursor, and in the case of V and VI, beautiful setting) and added...3D inventory?
I'm glad Jane Jensen went on to make the GK series because it is so depressing that the series couldn't even meet the bar KQVI raised for the genre.
Quote from: Bludshot on October 01, 2011, 04:46:10 PM
It's a little astounding that after the huge success of KQVI Roberta Williams took almost none of the positives over to VII. I realize she felt the series needed to evolve but it just I find it uncanny she removed all the pluses of KQ (points system, 5 senses replaced by a single cursor, and in the case of V and VI, beautiful setting) and added...3D inventory?
I'm glad Jane Jensen went on to make the GK series because it is so depressing that the series couldn't even meet the bar KQVI raised for the genre.
She replaced the icon interface because Sierra was getting complaints that it was "clunky." Also, KQ6, while critically acclaimed didn't outsell KQ5. KQ5 still was the highest selling computer game of all time until 1995, when Myst overtook it. She basically undertook a fact finding mission in 1991-1992, looking at the interfaces of all the most popular and high selling adventure games out there, and KQ7's interface came from that.
Also, I tend to think locations like this are beautiful:
(http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/KQ7/kq75.jpg)
(http://ui28.gamefaqs.com/251/gfs_29885_2_30.jpg)
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3MWqOfp1E-g/0.jpg)
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/11419/595933-856432.jpg)
(http://ui12.gamefaqs.com/715/gfs_29885_2_12.jpg)
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/19FM586CkCE/0.jpg)
Quote from: Bludshot on October 01, 2011, 04:46:10 PM
It's a little astounding that after the huge success of KQVI Roberta Williams took almost none of the positives over to VII. I realize she felt the series needed to evolve but it just I find it uncanny she removed all the pluses of KQ (points system, 5 senses replaced by a single cursor, and in the case of V and VI, beautiful setting) and added...3D inventory?
I'm glad Jane Jensen went on to make the GK series because it is so depressing that the series couldn't even meet the bar KQVI raised for the genre.
Neither could the GK series, though. GK2 and 3 suck dirty nuts.
Good points about KQ7 though. Agreed in full.
As for those posted screenshots--do I have to repost my dogshit image?
Quote from: Lambonius on October 01, 2011, 11:25:58 PM
Quote from: Bludshot on October 01, 2011, 04:46:10 PM
It's a little astounding that after the huge success of KQVI Roberta Williams took almost none of the positives over to VII. I realize she felt the series needed to evolve but it just I find it uncanny she removed all the pluses of KQ (points system, 5 senses replaced by a single cursor, and in the case of V and VI, beautiful setting) and added...3D inventory?
I'm glad Jane Jensen went on to make the GK series because it is so depressing that the series couldn't even meet the bar KQVI raised for the genre.
Neither could the GK series, though. GK2 and 3 suck dirty nuts.
Good points about KQ7 though. Agreed in full.
As for those posted screenshots--do I have to repost my dogshit image?
Don't really see the problem with the backgrounds. I think the backgrounds are some of the most beautiful KQ areas this side of KQ5. I also like that it was a return to simpler times after the Jane Jensen-ness of KQ6.
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on October 02, 2011, 01:06:17 AM
Quote from: Lambonius on October 01, 2011, 11:25:58 PM
Quote from: Bludshot on October 01, 2011, 04:46:10 PM
It's a little astounding that after the huge success of KQVI Roberta Williams took almost none of the positives over to VII. I realize she felt the series needed to evolve but it just I find it uncanny she removed all the pluses of KQ (points system, 5 senses replaced by a single cursor, and in the case of V and VI, beautiful setting) and added...3D inventory?
I'm glad Jane Jensen went on to make the GK series because it is so depressing that the series couldn't even meet the bar KQVI raised for the genre.
Neither could the GK series, though. GK2 and 3 suck dirty nuts.
Good points about KQ7 though. Agreed in full.
As for those posted screenshots--do I have to repost my dogshit image?
Don't really see the problem with the backgrounds. I think the backgrounds are some of the most beautiful KQ areas this side of KQ5. I also like that it was a return to simpler times after the Jane Jensen-ness of KQ6.
Okay, I'll concede that the background art is probably the single LEAST objectionable thing about KQ7. ;)
I think my image of this game is also tainted by the fact that we never see King Graham.
Quote from: jazzguy+87 on October 02, 2011, 10:04:05 AM
I think my image of this game is also tainted by the fact that we never see King Graham.
It's for the better. He was going to appear but his appearance was cut. He wasn't going to be voiced by Josh Mandel as Josh had quit Sierra around the time of KQ4's development. And the actor they got for him is terrible. His voice is still in the game's files and if I'm not mistaken he's still in the end credits.
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on October 01, 2011, 05:03:53 PMShe replaced the icon interface because Sierra was getting complaints that it was "clunky." Also, KQ6, while critically acclaimed didn't outsell KQ5. KQ5 still was the highest selling computer game of all time until 1995, when Myst overtook it. She basically undertook a fact finding mission in 1991-1992, looking at the interfaces of all the most popular and high selling adventure games out there, and KQ7's interface came from that.
The single cursor can be done properly, but it definitely was not in KQ7. All of the puzzles were either solved by clicking on everything you can, or in the case of the moon logic puzzles, just using each inventory on something until it works.
So I guess I can see the resemblance to Myst.
I think that most of the King's Quest games have their areas of "kid-friendly" silliness. KQV obviously had Cedric (and I still believe that most of the characters in the game are silly in an unintentional way). KQVI had the Isle of Wonder, which I found more strange than humorous. As for Mask of Eternity, well...Swamp Wisps collecting secrets...need I say more?
KQVII was...silly just about everywhere. Falderal was the centerpiece of it, but Ooga Booga was campy as well. I personally never found the Boogeyman remotely scary. He's crazy, obviously, but not in the eerie way that the Joker in The Dark Knight is. He's crazy in a campy way, just like everything else about Ooga Booga. Overall, I think the game was an overload of silliness, and I wholeheartedly agree with Paw Dugan's retrospective of it: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/paw/kingsquest/30490-kings-quest-retrospective-the-princeless-bride
Quote from: 929572 on October 02, 2011, 01:20:56 PM
I think that most of the King's Quest games have their areas of "kid-friendly" silliness. KQV obviously had Cedric (and I still believe that most of the characters in the game are silly in an unintentional way). KQVI had the Isle of Wonder, which I found more strange than humorous. As for Mask of Eternity, well...Swamp Wisps collecting secrets...need I say more?
KQVII was...silly just about everywhere. Falderal was the centerpiece of it, but Ooga Booga was campy as well. I personally never found the Boogeyman remotely scary. He's crazy, obviously, but not in the eerie way that the Joker in The Dark Knight is. He's crazy in a campy way, just like everything else about Ooga Booga. Overall, I think the game was an overload of silliness, and I wholeheartedly agree with Paw Dugan's retrospective of it: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/paw/kingsquest/30490-kings-quest-retrospective-the-princeless-bride
Yeah but why does a bad guy have to be creepy in the eerie way the Joker is? Why the need for hyperrealism? Remember, Disney-esque was the model and Disney doesn't normally feature realistic psychopaths as the villains. Some of their villains are even LIKEABLE--Jafar anyone?
He has to be because that's our preference. If our taste is not in campy non-scary bad guys meant to portray a campy scariness then we're not going to like it. And seeing as the rest of King's Quest wasn't campy in it's scary parts it's not too far-fetched to think that maybe that's where our tastes lie When we think about King's Quest. If that's your thing than awesome. It's definitely not mine.
No, I agree--having a mega-psychopath would've been incredibly out of place in a game that stars "Archduke Fifi le Yipyap" as one of its principal characters. What I meant to say was that I couldn't really take the game seriously. Although I did find Etheria to be a pretty nice place (though I wouldn't want to live there, what with Sirocco charging around).
The problem with KQ7's Disney-inspired take on a KQ adventure is that it's really NOT very Disney. Disney typically did a much better job of reigning in the silliness and relegating it to comedy relief moments in otherwise heartfelt and genuine films. In KQ7, the silly tone permeates the entire thing--pretty much every scene. It's more like a bad Saturday morning cartoon than a Disney movie.
I think Ooga Booga is the most well-done land in KQ7. Backgrounds, good mix of campy and creepy, it was the land that felt the most complete to me. A little more rounding out and work and it could've been perfect, I think.
The Vulcanix Underground was silly, Falderal was somewhat clever but also really annoying, the forest felt very much like an in-between location, just some nice screens that got you from one place to another, and the desert I always found really boring. I think it was a really bad choice to start the game in the desert, and with Valanice. The desert is just really cut off from the rest of the areas in the game--they all feel connected somehow, the desert doesn't feel like it fits in. And if you're going with a younger, Disney-style game? Don't start with your matron character, start with the princess! So, I think it should've opened with Rosella, and even if the Vulcanix Underground was really silly, it would've been a better introduction to the game, characters, and situation.
Yeah, Ooga Booga was definitely more interesting than Falderal (I'm STILL pissed that Valanice couldn't reach the moon because she apparently lacked the ability to bend at the waist).
And it's also true that the "Disney-ness" wasn't that professional. Disney cartoons can actually do a good job with romance and whatnot. I failed to notice any real sparks flying between Rosella and Edgar:
Edgar (paraphrased): "I know I kidnapped you twice, and I have a really weak mind because I keep getting captured and enchanted, but I still love you!"
Rosella's response: "Will you show me the sights of Etheria?"
My response to Rosella's response: "Wait, what...?"
Stuff like this is why fan fiction exists.
Quote from: 929572 on October 02, 2011, 05:38:15 PM
Yeah, Ooga Booga was definitely more interesting than Falderal (I'm STILL pissed that Valanice couldn't reach the moon because she apparently lacked the ability to bend at the waist).
And it's also true that the "Disney-ness" wasn't that professional. Disney cartoons can actually do a good job with romance and whatnot. I failed to notice any real sparks flying between Rosella and Edgar:
Edgar (paraphrased): "I know I kidnapped you twice, and I have a really weak mind because I keep getting captured and enchanted, but I still love you!"
Rosella's response: "Will you show me the sights of Etheria?"
My response to Rosella's response: "Wait, what...?"
Stuff like this is why fan fiction exists.
Edgar didn't kidnap her the first time. That was Lolotte's doing. Edgar rescued her from her fate by slipping the key underneath the door despite his feelings for her. He couldn't keep her prisoner despite being smitten with her. And he allowed her to kill the woman he believed to be his mother. The second time, yes, he kidnapped her, but he and a whole Kingdom were in trouble...So it worked out.
And that's definitely not the way the scenes with them go.
Also, I don't think he's weak minded. He got kidnapped the first time as an infant and the second time just as he got home. Both by enchantresses more powerful than he.
And also...KQ7 isn't primarily a romance story, hence why the romance side of things isn't as beefed up. They just went through a romance plot in KQ6; It'd feel repetitive if the plot was a romantic one yet again for the third time in the series
Consider in KQ4 that the only reason Rosella didn't say no to Edgar's question of marriage was because she had to go home and save her dying father, whose time was rapidly running out. That's not just in the KQC, even the game says she really considers it seriously before telling him no. So, his proposal to court her and her acceptance of that isn't all that out of whack in canon.
At least there's a foundation for why Rosella would want to be with Edgar: He did save her life and her father's, indirectly. She was toast once she was locked in the room if he didn't help her. Doomed to be Mrs. Edgar. He, by being selfess, allowed her to go free and save her father's life.
With Alex and Cassima, it almost comes off stalker-ish on Alex's part. He sees her for two minutes and then thinks about her for months after, obsessively. And he claims she gave him an invitation to visit the Green Isles; This never happened in KQ5.
Another reason why I dislike KQ6 is it basically rehashed the plot of KQ2 but beefed up.
I did appreciate that in KQ7, Edgar didn't jump right to proposing this time--he asked the medieval equivalent of 'hey, can we go out sometime?' He learned! True, the love story wasn't really a factor until the end, but that's why it felt to me that his toned down question was fitting.
On the subject of Disney villains. Most of the classic ones are freaking terrifying. Ursula, the witch in Snow White, and even the Devil itself in Fantasia. Others while not psychotic, are still very dark. Scar, Gaston, Jafar all display the cold and cunning sides of human nature. Mannanan and Alhazred can both be linked to these kinds of villains so there is a clear precedent that KQ7 could have been the same.
So I have a hard time believing the obnoxious villains of KQ7 can be defended on the concept they're more like Disney characters.
Yeah, Malicia had some villain fail going on. The fact that we didn't find out what the real plan and everything about her was until THE VERY END didn't help. You just knew this woman who sounded like a man in drag was using a volcano to blow up Etheria because, uh...evil?
Quote from: KatieHal on October 02, 2011, 07:26:16 PM
Yeah, Malicia had some villain fail going on. The fact that we didn't find out what the real plan and everything about her was until THE VERY END didn't help. You just knew this woman who sounded like a man in drag was using a volcano to blow up Etheria because, uh...evil?
Yeah at least KQ5 had the foresight to give Mordack a motive. This is what bugs me most about KQ7, for all it's changes it felt like the series was going backwards.
Quote from: Bludshot on October 02, 2011, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: KatieHal on October 02, 2011, 07:26:16 PM
Yeah, Malicia had some villain fail going on. The fact that we didn't find out what the real plan and everything about her was until THE VERY END didn't help. You just knew this woman who sounded like a man in drag was using a volcano to blow up Etheria because, uh...evil?
Yeah at least KQ5 had the foresight to give Mordack a motive. This is what bugs me most about KQ7, for all it's changes it felt like the series was going backwards.
That's another thing that technology happened. We were going to learn about Malicia's entire backstory and her motive in KQ7, but this was cut due to technological limits--KQ7 was already a huge game as it was (for the time) and I think something like 20% of it was cut in the end.
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on October 01, 2011, 05:03:53 PM
Quote from: Bludshot on October 01, 2011, 04:46:10 PM
It's a little astounding that after the huge success of KQVI Roberta Williams took almost none of the positives over to VII. I realize she felt the series needed to evolve but it just I find it uncanny she removed all the pluses of KQ (points system, 5 senses replaced by a single cursor, and in the case of V and VI, beautiful setting) and added...3D inventory?
I'm glad Jane Jensen went on to make the GK series because it is so depressing that the series couldn't even meet the bar KQVI raised for the genre.
She replaced the icon interface because Sierra was getting complaints that it was "clunky." Also, KQ6, while critically acclaimed didn't outsell KQ5. KQ5 still was the highest selling computer game of all time until 1995, when Myst overtook it. She basically undertook a fact finding mission in 1991-1992, looking at the interfaces of all the most popular and high selling adventure games out there, and KQ7's interface came from that.
I like KQVII, but the programming was just awful - it made for a buggy game.* Why is it that Roberta's research tended to end up as excrement in application? With KQVII being poorly received, and, of course, all of her research for MoE... Need I say more? Did any of her "Research" and application yield positive results?
*Example of bad programming (Regarding timer coding) at 2:47:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi9kOFJABPY
Quote from: 929572 on October 02, 2011, 05:38:15 PM
Yeah, Ooga Booga was definitely more interesting than Falderal (I'm STILL pissed that Valanice couldn't reach the moon because she apparently lacked the ability to bend at the waist).
The evils of corsetting. :yes: :P
haha, same joke I was going to make, Delling!
This forum really needs a "like" button! :yes:
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on October 02, 2011, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Bludshot on October 02, 2011, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: KatieHal on October 02, 2011, 07:26:16 PM
Yeah, Malicia had some villain fail going on. The fact that we didn't find out what the real plan and everything about her was until THE VERY END didn't help. You just knew this woman who sounded like a man in drag was using a volcano to blow up Etheria because, uh...evil?
Yeah at least KQ5 had the foresight to give Mordack a motive. This is what bugs me most about KQ7, for all it's changes it felt like the series was going backwards.
That's another thing that technology happened. We were going to learn about Malicia's entire backstory and her motive in KQ7, but this was cut due to technological limits--KQ7 was already a huge game as it was (for the time) and I think something like 20% of it was cut in the end.
That is an incredibly weak excuse. The game had a lot of filler moments, especially in the first half, that could have been done away with, elements of chapters 2 and 3 and pretty much the entirety of the desert. Space was clearly not an issue, there were plenty of areas in the game which could have had relevance to the plot, that quite simply just don't.
Yeah, and we are talking about King's Quest here, the flagship of a multimillion dollars company. I'm sure that there were still limitations, but if the game wasn't something Roberta wasn't happy with, I'm sure they could have delayed it until it was. She was working on Phantasmagoria, yes, but this is not "Shivers" or even GK2, which had a full chapter cut, this was King's Quest, the most important product in Sierra's history.
Quote from: Cez on October 04, 2011, 12:36:37 AM
Yeah, and we are talking about King's Quest here, the flagship of a multimillion dollars company. I'm sure that there were still limitations, but if the game wasn't something Roberta wasn't happy with, I'm sure they could have delayed it until it was. She was working on Phantasmagoria, yes, but this is not "Shivers" or even GK2, which had a full chapter cut, this was King's Quest, the most important product in Sierra's history.
Didn't know GK2 had a chapter cut, but looking back it makes a bit of sense. Something late in the game I'm guessing?
There was a chapter written where you'd take the role of Ludwig II. My guess is that it was that whole long intro from chapter 6 where he hides the Opera pieces and gets caught.
Quote from: Cez on October 04, 2011, 12:36:37 AM
Yeah, and we are talking about King's Quest here, the flagship of a multimillion dollars company. I'm sure that there were still limitations, but if the game wasn't something Roberta wasn't happy with, I'm sure they could have delayed it until it was. She was working on Phantasmagoria, yes, but this is not "Shivers" or even GK2, which had a full chapter cut, this was King's Quest, the most important product in Sierra's history.
That is the fact, though. KQ7 had stuff cut not due to budgets or control issues, but simply because the technology wasn't there to handle it all. As it was, this was the first KQ game that wouldn't be released on CDs because it was that big technologically for the time. There was one land cut called the Rubber Jungle, and also more about Malicia's backstory. Her backstory and this information about the cuts is told in the KQ7 Authorized Player's Guide.
KQ1 also had stuff cut from it, but the cut stuff was put into KQ2 instead.
And we know all about how KQ8 had at least 3 different lands cut from it if not more, again due to technological restraints (and also, in this case, budget issues).
Percival could you explain how technology limited the story? I'm having a hard time connecting the two.
Quote from: Bludshot on October 05, 2011, 07:07:48 PM
Percival could you explain how technology limited the story? I'm having a hard time connecting the two.
The game was already challenging for two big reasons: One, the rubric for KQ was re-written once again with KQ7: An utterly new interface, an utterly new graphical style. The game for it's time was a pretty big experience. Unless you want the game getting bigger and bigger and eating up memory on 1995 era computers, some things had to be reduced. Unfortunately, this came in the area of the plot. Remember, KQ was meant to be both innovative technologically and also accessible to players--It was Sierra's flagship and also their testing ground for new technology, design and art. King's Quest was never that much a story driven series as it was, being more driven by the environments, characters, and puzzles.
Consider that the reverse happened in KQ6: In order to accommodate a deeper story (and fancy things like a 3D intro and green screen technology), less resources were allocated to the art of the game (Compare for example the level of detail in the backgrounds of KQ5, to those of KQ6.)
Basically, KQ7 (in the view of some) suffered from the same essential problems as KQ5: Essentially being a testing ground for new technology and interfaces and as such both could be considered (depending on your view) rough around the edges. Had Sierra put out another KQ in the style of KQ7 in say 1996, it's likely it would've been much more refined and generally loved.
I don't see that as an excuse though. Yes King's Quest was about breaking new ground. But if that new ground isn't panning out or comes at the expense of putting out a great product, then it's up to the creators to scale it back so that their vision isn't compromised. The plot of KQ7 was compromised, end of story. Saying that the game was getting too big and things had to be cut isn't a justification of it. It's just an explanation. And if that crappy single icon/hotspot interface was taking up more room than your basic icon interface, then it should have been dumped. Just because you can break new ground doesn't mean that you should or you're ready to do so.
Also, it was mentioned that Edgar didn't kidnap Rosella in KQ4. I'd beg to differ on that. Yes, Lolotte imprisoned Rosella, but it was Edgar who said he wanted to marry this woman he'd just met and therefore made his evil mom kidnap her. You can argue that he wanted Rosella out of the prison cell but clearly he was doing it for selfish reasons. There were other skeletons in that cell. Edgar wasn't talking his mom out of keeping them locked away. And yes, he did give Rosella a key to escape, but he didn't tell her where his mom was sleeping or give her back her possessions or try to start a coup with the palace guards. If I can be allowed the conceit to treat these characters like real people for a second, I think it's pretty clear what Edgar's motives were in all of this. He thought Rosella was hot, so he had his mom force a marriage. And he let Rosella out of her room so that she could come to his room and get something in before the wedding. Really, in all seriousness, can you give any other explanation for Edgar's actions besides that? He didn't help her in any way except giving her the key to every room in the house (and by extension, his room.) He didn't clear the guards. He didn't walk her out the front door to help her escape. He had her kidnapped then invited her back to his room. Edgar has boundary issues. His proposal and subsequent kidnapping of Rosella in KQ7 is further proof of that. And him asking to court at the end of KQ7 might be a slight improvement, but it doesn't undo the kidnapping or the unhealthy fascination he has with Rosella (he must have been watching her to know to entice Rosella to jump in the lake). Edgar's a stalker and he's got issues.
Here's what I hated about KQ7 -- the simplified interface, that darn dynamite puzzle, and the fact the artists had obviously not seen Valanice in ANY previous games. Ever. At all. They were like "Golly gee, I'm so glad they gave us this fresh, never before seen character to work with!" *facepalm*
But other than that, King's Quest 7 is an amazing story, the puzzles are creative and fun.... and I liked it a lot.
King's Quest VII holds a fond place in my heart purely because it was the game that got me back into the series (after being scared off from it as a young child). I can see how someone who has played the rest of the series prior to KQVII would possibly see issue with the visuals, the interface, and so on, but I think that, as an introduction into a series, it does its job very well. It had some great music and characters and, even though I never got far on it when I was younger, I used to love booting it up just to explore the environments.
Actually, the soundtrack didn't really stick out to me for some reason. All of the other games--and even the fangames--have easily recognizable tunes that I can identify in a second or two, but not KQ7. The music is...well, goofy, just like almost all other aspects of the game, and it all seems to run together. Even MoE, for all its flaws, had a nicely done soundtrack (the downside being that most of the tracks are eerie and unpleasant to listen to; the Swamp Witch's castle is probably the freakiest tune in the whole game).
In fact, the only music I can recall from KQ7 at the moment is the bizarre music that plays whenever the Boogeyman pops out of the ground, for obvious reasons. I have, understandably, blocked out Rosella's song...
I think Malicia's theme is the best villain's theme in the series.
I think I know what our next poll is going to be on...favorite villain themes.
I didn't like the soundtrack either. I could never get into Neil Grandstaff or Dan Kehler's scores. They just weren't as good as Seibert's, Allen's, or Brayman's.
As I read through this thread the music from Malicia's house started playing in my head! That was one of the best parts of the game.
I liked KQ7. It had some fun aspects about it. Falderal was funny simply because of how obnoxious it was. The boogey man used to frustrate the heck out of me because he showed up all the time. I liked the poem dittys on the gravestones. Dr. Cadaver was probably my favorite character.
It did have some annoying points though. Valanice was so whiny and weak. I was expecting more from the wife of the greatest adventurer of all time. The little kids in Ooga Booga accomplished their purpose in annoying me.
Now I want to play it again, haha. I don't have it on my computer. Just 4 5 and 6.
GoG is your friend.
Yeah, off the top of my head I believe GoG sells KQ7 and KQ8 as a bundle for 9.99. Not bad at all, and they run nicely on modern machines.
Yeah true. I'm not really interested in playing MOE though. There's probably a let's play around youtube somewhere. And I like GoG. I bought my 4 to 6 pack from them. Haven't had a chance to play them much but it runs great when I do play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDzS_Yc0a3M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bODOcBGJSM0
This is totally one of my favourite tracks from the entire game. I just love that it managed to convey that you were in a dark, depressed place that was under a lot of trouble.
Watching "Let's Play"'s is a losers way out.
Honestly, the fact that people would go watch one of these things rather than play the game makes me want to vomit up my own intestines and feed them to a rat. I can't think of anything more lazy and self serving. You might as well watch a video of someone eating a pizza next time you're hungry.
Bt
Woah. That's a little inflammatory, Bt.
Keep in mind that not all people play games for the challenge or the gameplay. Some just want to see the story unfold. I know I personally have a lot of games left unfinished because, despite how interested I was in the story and the characters, I just didn't like the gameplay, and found it an obstacle to my enjoyment of the game. If you're mostly interested in the story, I'd liken watching an LP instead of playing a game to watching a movie with MST3K-style commentary instead of just watching the movie. A lot of the LPers out there are witty, engaging people who can bring a lot to the enjoyment of a game.
Exactly Kelsey :) Or if you just want your fix of that game and don't have it on your computer. I like to watch Toegoff's of TSL after I've played it. He has a nice speaking voice and he's funny to boot. I don't have the extra money right now to spend on the game. I'm a college student trying to finish my degree and have limited funds. Don't be so quick to judge.
Yeah, but with MST3K, they watch crappy movies you would NOT want to watch without their commentary. Try watching "Manos, Hands of Fate" without the MST3K guys and you'll claw your eyes out just to make it stop.
Sorry, but it's how I feel. I think only watching Let's Play's and not playing the game is an insult to the game, it's writers and the whole team of people that worked to make it. You're only cheating yourself out of the experience.
I'm not saying "never watch Let's Play's", I am saying that if you've never played the game, and only watch a Let's Play of it.... you're just a tool.
Bt
I recently used a "Let's Play" of KQ3 to check something when I was playing around with IA's KQ3 Gold. It was quicker than playing through to the dragon climax.
Quote from: Klitos on October 31, 2011, 06:21:55 AM
I recently used a "Let's Play" of KQ3 to check something when I was playing around with IA's KQ3 Gold. It was quicker than playing through to the dragon climax.
Yeah, but you've PLAYED King's Quest III previously. (Hell, you programmed KQIII multiple times!)
I'm saying ONLY watching Let's Plays and never playing the game yourself is lame.
Bt
I sometimes watch LPs if I'm not sure whether or not I want to play a certain game. If I watch for a little while, and don't like what I see, I generally don't bother watching the rest of the LP, and I certainly don't purchase the game afterward. You can't always judge a game by its first level or so--just look at TSL, which had a slow start, but gets better as it goes--but that's how I roll.
Just my two cents.
Getting a preview of a game is cool.... I just know a lot of folks that soley watch LP's and then claim to have "played" games. That's just abhorrent.
Bt
Quote from: Blackthorne on October 30, 2011, 04:03:55 PM
Watching "Let's Play"'s is a losers way out.
Honestly, the fact that people would go watch one of these things rather than play the game makes me want to vomit up my own intestines and feed them to a rat. I can't think of anything more lazy and self serving. You might as well watch a video of someone eating a pizza next time you're hungry.
Bt
I disagree watching the "Let's Play for Dragon Age 2" saved my ass from buying a 60$ POS
Just my 2 pyreal
I prefer longplay videos to Let's Play videos; not particularly a fan of people talking over the video 95% of the time.
I prefer PLAYING THE GODMAN GAME!
(Heh. Godman. I like that.)
Bt
Quote from: MangoMercury on October 31, 2011, 02:29:32 PM
I prefer longplay videos to Let's Play videos; not particularly a fan of people talking over the video 95% of the time.
It depends. Some of them are quite hilarious. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAc-_5eqew4)
Oh, I love playing the Godman game too, BT; just sometimes it's nice to be able to watch someone play a game to see how they approach it.
And there's a few funny Let's Play videos out there Deloria, I agree, but a lot of them seem to just be a bit moronic.
I agree with MangoMercury on this one. I have about 100 GBs of Long Play videos, but only a select few YouTube rips of scenes from Let's Play videos, because the commentary is rarely informative and often seriously needs to be censored.
Personally, I watch them because I hate playing 99% of video games, but I like some games for stories and others, like Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, FFXIII, and Sonic Colours, for graphics. I've watched every Monkey Island game as a longplay so I would understand the story when subject arises, but never played one of them - I abhor that LucasArts interface.
www.longplays.org, ftw!
A lot of the good Let's Plays are either well thought out, so they're prepared with some actual smart comments. Or they're made by genuinely funny people. I think the problem with the other 99% is that the people making them only go as far as recording footage and yelling into a mic. Even something as basic as a Let's Play could use some polish.