We did say it was inevitable. :)
KQ7 isn't perfect. It's got some serious flaws of pacing, gameplay, characters and storyline. What would you change?
Now, so we don't simply get 'scrap the whole thing!', let's do this assuming certain things need to stay as they are: the many lands of Eldritch are under threat by Malicia, Titania & Oberon are the rulers of Eldritch, Edgar is involved, and you're playing as both Valanice and Rosella.
My first suggestions:
- Get rid of that one-icon sparkly wand interface
- Redo the entire first chapter (for that matter, I'd vote to make the first chapter a Rosella one, and not a Valanice one). No desert, or greatly redo the desert.
- Have Edgar show up before the last 15 minutes of the game
- Don't make Eldritch a different universe/dimension, just a far-flung region of the existing world of Daventry
- Fix the glaring problem of how Rosella and Valanice SHOULD have crossed paths somewhere in Chapter 4 or 5 but didn't. Either they meet up, or there's a clear reason they don't meet up.
Remove the Edgar as fairy prince of Eldrich crap entirely. It'd involve reworking the story a bit to make him a key player against Malicia (or for her--maybe after his mother's death, he was seduced by the call of yet another evil female sorceress) but without the whole contrived prince-kidnapped-at-birth crap. Does EVERY prince in the KQ series need to have been kidnapped at birth and held captive by an evil sorcerer/ess? They really couldn't come up with something more original than recycling the same plotline as Alexander?
Yeah...it was just jammed in there so awkwardly (that's what she said). I'd even say him simply being Lolotte's son and she was related to Titania or Malicia and that's how he gets pulled in--maybe he's decided to dedicate himself to undoing the evils of his extended family and spends the game being a mysterious masked benefactor a la Sheik in Ocarina or something.
Yeah, I agree - Edgar's lineage shouldn't be messed on in a deus-ex-machina way at all.
I mean, I would re-do the graphics entirely. I know they were going to a Disney kind of look to it - but, I don't know - it doesn't work for me. I don't like the art-direction... also, the singing. No. No, no. No. No.
Bt
I'm not a fan of the art direction either. It lacks the soul that most Disney movies have when it comes to art direction, and it honestly just makes the series feel overly cartoonish and whimsical--there's a LOT more silliness in KQ7 as a result. So much so that it often seems like a parody of the earlier KQ games.
I think though, that if you changed the art direction entirely, you'd also have to rework certain elements of the game that wouldn't fit the more realistic art direction of say KQ5 or 6. Like Falderal for example. That said, I would not miss Falderal AT ALL.
You could totally re-do Falderal - it would just take some elbow grease, some design work.... but I think it'd actually work better in a more realistic "KQ" style.... might make it even more interesting.
Bt
I don't mind the graphics, but making them better cell-animations would've been great. If the characters had as much detail and care in them as the backgrounds, for example--some of those scenes were really beautiful. But the sprites weren't nearly as good, and some animations looked sloppy.
Falderal could do without the Archduke. Ferdinand the Bull, the Snake Oil Salesman, and the Faux Shop I enjoyed enough. The Archduke and the guards, though...ugh.
Mocking Bird was pretty fun :)
Actually, this DA gallery makes me think that KQ7 in *Classic* Disney animation style could be pretty cool: http://wooleymammoth.deviantart.com/gallery/
All of the crying. Valanice, Rosella, those troll women, Archduke Fifi LeYipyap, Fernando, Chicken Little, the Jackalope, Lady Tsepish (actually - in context, she's fine just because she's so freaky.) As a kid, I had to turn down the volume on these parts just because people would walk in asking why they keep hearing crying coming from my room. "It's from my game." "Your game is CRYING?" "...yes." "You should stop playing it then."
The first chapter did do something I really liked - multiple puzzle solutions. I only saw this happen a couple other times in the game, but the first chapter really built itself on the multiple solution route. Would've been nice to see them expand on this idea.
I'd also probably either remove that "use rat on Malicia" puzzle, or expand on it for later. They put a lot of exposition into her fear of rats for the one puzzle, and it'd be nice if we could continue exploiting it throughout the game.
The same with the mole rat. You trade with him twice - and the second time is so out-of-the-way that it makes even less sense not to trade with him a third time in Chapter 5. Maybe trade something for the crystal? Because I know when it came to looking for a crystal shard, Malicia's lamp was not the first thing to come to mind - especially since it didn't become a hotspot until you needed it to be.
Maybe adding a better puzzle for escaping the volcano? Even using the shovel doesn't make sense from a "trying to dig through volcanic rock" perspective, let alone watching Rosella destroy that wall with her bare hands. Maybe she could have used the scepter to turn herself into a bug and escape through a crack in the wall?
Otherwise, from a design point, this game is pretty good. I'd complain about the opening song and the sloppy cel animation, but from what they were trying to do (along with the budget) it was decent enough. With more budget, they could have turned this into the first full-length musical adventure game (where Malicia gets her own villain song!)
(Throughout writing this, I kept staring at the face of terror on the left side of the screen and thinking... "Rosella?")
I don't mind the "Disney" style. Obviously, they were not going to be able to match Disney, but some of the stuff was cool. I guess Curse of MI, which came out 2 years later, did a much better job at the whole style, and I think that would have fit KQ better, but, for being one of the first ones to take a stab at the style, it wasn't THAT bad.
Man, a Malicia evil song would have been awesome.
I also hated the fact Edgar, only appeared in the last 15 mins, not to mention that I had not played KQ4 at the time, so I couldn't help feeling I had skipped 1 hour of the game and didn't notice. Everyone was talking about "EDGAR!" and all I could think of was "who the hell are you?"
As for my feelings on the interface.. I didn't really mind it at the time. I don't remember ever being shocked by it. The game still felt very challenging even with the overly simplified interface. I honestly think once games became "talkies", the narrations didn't really fit anymore. This is obviously a topic I've thought about a lot since the release of TSL.
But all in all, my second fav KQ. Of course, that's not entirely fair since I only played V, VI and VII on their time, all the others I played after they were dated, so that definitely helped me preferring the newer ones.
Shoot, Chapter 1 probably would've been much more enjoyable the game had actually STARTED on Chapter 1. In Chapter 1 we know nothing about our situation, where we are, why we are, what the stakes are, and why the player should care about finishing the game. If there had been more NPCs around to interact with to tell me about Eldritch then I'd probably like the first Chapter. Instead I'm just solving puzzles carved on a wall so I can get through one (1) door.
Valanice should have had an actual goal aside from "find my daughter" in Chapter 1 and 3. Everything Rosella does in the game seems to drive toward a point that never wavers and concludes in Chapter 6 (return to normal and find Otar so he can stop the volcano). I always felt her story was much more interesting than Valanice's. By the end of Chapter 4, Rosella has escaped the main villain a few times and found the hiding place of the real king. At that point what has Valanice done? Talked to a guy in a forest who wants a tree restored. Nothing she does matters until Chapter 5 really matters and even then, if I remember correctly, Valanice can go through the entire game without the main antagonist even knowing she exists!
Give her something to do!
I think a lot of people can agree that Rosella was miscast in this game. I think in KQ3 she had actually offered herself as the dragon's sacrifice (to save the life of another) and of course there were all the events in KQ4. She seemed to be strong and independent character in those games. But in KQ7 she seemed to be cast as some sort of mischievous and immature little girl which didn't really fit what we expected from Rosella. Rosella and Valanice didn't need to be weak characters; I had grown up with the impression that Daventry folk were independent and had a cool head.
Some complain about the cursor but I don't. Especially with the "cartoony" graphics. Since EVERYTHING was so bright in that game it would've been frustrating trying to determine what things on the screen were important and which were not. There were still puzzles to figure out that did sometimes take a significant amount of time to work out despite the lack of "look/touch/talk" buttons. Part of this opinion is biased after playing the KQ3 fanmade game where there really are no puzzles if you really only need 1 button to cast the spells, the mountain path is easy to traverse, and important items were very bright. KQ7 puzzles seemed harder in comparison in my opinion.
Agree about Edgar. I really don't like when huge important characters show up at the very end of a game with no clues prior to the end that that was going to happen. "Surprise!" It's bad writing. A game like this should generally make mention of all of the main characters that are going to appear in the game by the halfway mark.
I thought Falderal was good. They did a lot of things that I don't think would have worked as well if they didn't use the cartoon graphics, like the bull-in-a-china-shop joke and the mockingbird joke (though of course, Rotten Tomato > Mockingbird ;) )
I loved the "three stooges" plant. It should get a spinoff game.
Increase walking speed please, I'm trying to stop an evil fairy, remember? >:( Some of the tension in the game is lost when I'm in a spooky graveyard walking like I'm taking a stroll in the park.
Geez, what would I change? Where do I start? First off, I was not a fan of the animation. The backgrounds were fine. The actual sprites looked sloppy and the cartoony look of the characters was just not right for King's Quest. And whoever gave the green light to give Rosella four fingers deserves to go sit in a time out and think long and hard about what they did.
The interface needs to go back to the icons. I hate, hate, hate the single cursor interface. It, in my opinion, dumbs the game down even more than having an in-game hint system. It discourages exploration and spoon-feeds you every answer. Likewise I'd do away with the chapter system. You can keep the chapters as a narrative tool if you want, but the idea that I can jump to whatever chapter I want right from the start? No. Absolutely not. Explain to me how that's a benefit. And don't say it's so you can pick up the game from your favorite part. That's what save games are for! Chapters once again dumb down the game. I'd also make the game have the ability to save games like in the past games. And I'd do away with the retry button. You'd played the games up until this point learning to save early and save often. I've always loathed the retry button because, once again, it dumbs the game down. If you don't like games that don't keep you nice and safe and give you the chance to redo because it's just not fair if they make you experience consequences for your actions, then you shouldn't play adventure games. It really bothers me when games try to cater to everybody like that. I don't like turn based games, leveling up, and all the other attributes of RPGs, but you don't see me whining that they don't make an RPG for me and my interests. I just don't play RPGs! Anyway, enough of that rant.
I'd change Rosella's voice actress. She is not a valley girl. The casting director gets a time out for that one as well. Valanice's voice is ok. I think her problem was more the writing. I'd alter her dialogue so that she's less whiny and sobby. Yes, you're daughter is kidnapped and that's horrible, but Valanice is a woman of action. I don't think her dialogue properly showed that. Likewise I'd prefer Malicia to be more evil and less goofy. But if you need her to be a goofy villain, tone her down a bit. She was way over the top.
As for the plot, really I'd bring it all back to the drawing board. The plot itself is ok, but there are so many plot holes and unexplained things. Like where did that cheese come from? Why does Valanice care? Why did that cloak that Rosella use conveniently appear out of thin air? Yes, I know that a lot was cut from KQ7. But when you cut things, you have to piece the plot back together. I would try to show Malicia's evil influence throughout the game. Too often the plot of the game seemed to drift from the actual danger and into side quests or "look at how funny Falderal is!" I'd also have Troll Edgar kidnap Rosella because he specifically wants her to help, not because he wants to marry her. She helped him once and he wants her help again. Lack of boundaries? Maybe. But the guy is desperate and had never really had a normal life. The fact that he kidnaps Rosella and tries to forcibly marry her again and then she actually dates him at the end just isn't right. I'm not saying that Edgar has to reveal himself, he can be interrupted by Malicia before he can, but just a "Rosella, I need your help. You're the only one I know who can kick evil fairy ass!" would do a bit more to make his character less of a stalker. Likewise there needs to be a reason that Rosella became a troll. Is it a side effect of the mirror? Seriously, what was up with that in the game?
I'd also retool some of the puzzles in Ooga Booga so that not all roads lead to and from the Ghoul Kids. Seriously, those kids solved every problem and had everything you needed. It was really overly simplistic. As for the other lands, I actually liked Falderal. Rather, I liked the town. The inhabitants could go die in a tire fire for all I cared, but the town itself was interesting. Tone down the characters, keep the town. Except Fifi Le Yip Yap. And the bull. They can die. Don't even try to salvage them. They're not worth it. But again, some things need to be retooled, like why they're connected to Volcanix or why the town fountain prevents Valanice from bending at the waist.
Oh, and as for Eldritch not being it's own dimension, I'm fine with that. Actually, I think that's how the game plays anyway. Whenever people say it was it's own dimension I just roll my eyes. Yes, I know there's that hidden line from Graham that was cut from the game saying that they hadn't been gone any time at all. Yes, I know that Peter Spear's Companion says that it's a different dimension. But it's never overtly stated in the game and I don't routinely do extra reading or hack my games to expand the universe's canon. So in my mind Eldritch was always just another place in the real world (even though, yeah, I know it's not really supposed to be.)
Those are the main changes I'd make. I'm sure there are others, but I'll wait to see if other ideas come to me. For now, I've talked long enough.
Damar, I am right there with you with that eye-rolling!
Also, while having the Dreamweaver, Mab, and the Fates can be fine, I wouldn't make them related to anyone--not Titania and Oberon and definitely not Edgar!
Quote from: Scorpio82 on January 23, 2012, 12:41:22 PM
All of the crying. Valanice, Rosella, those troll women, Archduke Fifi LeYipyap, Fernando, Chicken Little, the Jackalope, Lady Tsepish...
THIS. I have never seen so many emotionally unstable wretches crammed into one game. Not to mention the voice acting was almost consistently irritating throughout. We were listening to KQ5's voice actors in a time when that level of voice acting was no longer acceptable, although judging from how bizarre MoE's voices were, Sierra apparently didn't learn much in that department.
I'm
still at a loss as to how they transitioned from "Yonderz da crystal cave. Dere you will find da yeti." to "Love cannot truly be banished, even from this place...less still from my heart." to "Prince FROCKMORTON?! But MUH-ther, he's so BORING!" to "Thou thinketh to defy me? HA! Go run to thy mother, stripling!"
Quote from: 929572 on January 24, 2012, 02:41:17 PM
I'm still at a loss as to how they transitioned from "Yonderz da crystal cave. Dere you will find da yeti." to "Love cannot truly be banished, even from this place...less still from my heart." to "Prince FROCKMORTON?! But MUH-ther, he's so BORING!" to "Thou thinketh to defy me? HA! Go run to thy mother, stripling!"
HA! So true.
The whole four fingers is an animation norm. Rich told me it's not uncommon for characters in 2D animation to only have 4 fingers since it's much less expensive to animate than with 5 fingers. I don't normally pay attention to those details but apparently it's a common thing to do.
Quote from: Cez on January 24, 2012, 06:07:11 PM
The whole four fingers is an animation norm. Rich told me it's not uncommon for characters in 2D animation to only have 4 fingers since it's much less expensive to animate than with 5 fingers. I don't normally pay attention to those details but apparently it's a common thing to do.
Curse of Monkey Island also gave Guybrush four fingers (but inconsistently; in some scenes he has more realistic hands with five fingers instead.) Of course this reverted back to the standard five fingers of previous games when the series went on to 3D... it really is a typical "cheat" of 2D animation.
Among other things, I would completely scrap the way in which you defeat Malicia. The whole device aspect in general I'd get rid of--it's a really lame way to end things. With a random and random-looking device, that for some reason NO ONE knows what it does, and it turns out it turns her into a baby? What? Huh? This is King's Quest, not Space Quest! Give me some magic duel, or another awesome bow and arrow coup de grace, like Rosella used to take out Lolotte!
Quote from: KatieHal on January 25, 2012, 08:03:13 AM
With a random and random-looking device, that for some reason NO ONE knows what it does, and it turns out it turns her into a baby? What? Huh? This is King's Quest, not Space Quest!
Or Space Ace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Ace)!
Quote from: KatieHal on January 25, 2012, 08:03:13 AM
Among other things, I would completely scrap the way in which you defeat Malicia. The whole device aspect in general I'd get rid of--it's a really lame way to end things. With a random and random-looking device, that for some reason NO ONE knows what it does, and it turns out it turns her into a baby? What? Huh? This is King's Quest, not Space Quest! Give me some magic duel, or another awesome bow and arrow coup de grace, like Rosella used to take out Lolotte!
That scene made me bulimic for two weeks. Especially when Titania implies that she wants to "begin anew" with the crazy fairy that just made her--and everyone else's--lives a living hell for what appears to have been a fair amount of time. I wish a text parser would appear, just for that scene, so I could "throw baby."
Hell, while they're introducing modern things like electric outlets into the King's Quest world, they could have had Otar give Rosella a bazooka to shoot Malicia with; it would've made a lot more sense--and it would've been
damned funny to watch.
Of course, I'm not saying that's what should have happened, but I would've preferred it to the Deus ex McGuffin we ended up with.
I get the impression that the game was modeled after what made KQ6 great. A world with its own different communities, some serious, some dark, some wacky, that you ideally get to know and love as you fight a villain trying to destroy it as you know it.
I think KQ7 tried and failed.
The game really showed me how critical Jane Jensen was to KQ6. Where the Green Isles had a fantastic and cohesive lore attached to it. Eldritch appears to be a linear succession of areas that don't really ever acknowledge the previous setting even exists.
Where Abdul Alhazred attempts to usurp the crown by manipulating the other residents of the islands, Malicia tries to destroy Eldritch with a volcano...using the trolls' volcano eruption machine...which they have because of reasons.
The entire game just felt like a mess I think when we talk about what we'd change, the core of the game is alright, it just needs a LOT of elbow grease.
Maybe explain why a Greek God is dating a Roman one, or explain if citizens of Eldritch specifically go to Ooga Booga when they die.
How do people feel about the trolls? Shouldn't their volcano eruption machine make the people of Falderal nervous?
Since there are ruins scattered about the Desert, people must have lived there once. What happened to them? Are they all buried in Ooga Booga now? Did the trolls kill them with their volcano eruption machine?
Honestly if they treated the setting as more than just colorful backgrounds the game could be a great successor to the evolution of the series.
Ah yes...another "Jane Jensen the infallible" comment. Gag me.
I agree about the KQ7 environments being totally random and incoherent, yes. But KQ6's environments were cohesive first and foremost from an art direction standpoint. They were all forested islands.
But sure--it must have been Jane Jensen's writing alone that made everything click.
Jane's a good writer, Lamb. Don't knock her too much. She can write better than you anyway! I actually think she was holding back on her usual shtick a bit with KQ6 compared to what she's done since. But anyway, I don't want to aid in the derailing of another thread with ANOTHER KQ6 conversation.
She is hardly infallible. GK3 was flat out bad. Frankly the same sort of infallibility comments come up for Roberta Williams too, we are fans after all. And I can't ignore the sudden spike in detail that went into KQ6's plot that magically disappeared in the rest of the series.
I get that people like KQ for different reasons, but for me KQ7 was just shallow.
Oh I agree, KQ7 is just...bad, when it comes to the plot (and graphics, and interface, and characterizations, etc. etc. etc.) KQ6 is good, I admit that. I've always liked the game. But the story is only one element of the game--it also has some of the tightest puzzle design in the series, as well as excellent visuals and music (though for my money, not as good as its predecessor in that department.) And the voice acting is quite good as well. But the plot...it just diverges too much from everything I liked about KQ for me to ever agree that the writing is a huge part of what made the game good.
I liked GK1, too. The other two GK games, though--oy.
I thought you'd been enjoying GK2? Speaking of, did you ever finish the last chapter?
Quote from: KatieHal on January 26, 2012, 06:30:04 AM
I thought you'd been enjoying GK2? Speaking of, did you ever finish the last chapter?
GK2 had some good moments--even great moments. But it is bogged down by an extremely slow pace and overly expository writing. Not to mention the slow and cheesy acting and awkwardly edited FMV (which actively contributes to the blah factor of the aforementioned problems.)
And no, I still haven't been able to bring myself to finish it. I just got so bored by the last chapter. Isn't the fact that I have no desire to finish the game a sign of the significance of its shortcomings? :)
**Any game that has as one of its required "puzzles" a sequence where the player must simply click every possible hotspot in an area and listen to slowly read exposition needs to go back to the damn drawing board. ;)
Heh. I acknowledge that KQ6 is a better game from a subjective standpoint, but I'm more likely to play KQ5...for the unintentional LOL moments, if nothing else.
*ahem* Back on topic.
I would definitely change the appearance of the characters. Maybe not so much what their faces look like, but what they're wearing. When I first saw what Edgar looked like...
(http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/hurr-durr-derp-face-then-i-lurrrld.jpg)
Between the long, wavy hair, superhero-like costume, and--you're not paying attention, are you? You're too busy gawking at the undisputed master of dental hygiene, aren't you? Sorry about that, just scroll down a little.
Anyway, the characters could use a serious makeover. Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking that the Were-bear is one of the goofiest, most nonthreatening monsters in the series. Or that Valanice looks like she belongs in a BBC film from the 70s...or that the Boogeyman looks like he could snap like a twig if you sneezed at him...or that the trolls look more like deformed hobbits than trolls...or that the Winds look like they belong in Ghostbusters...
Quote from: Lambonius on January 26, 2012, 12:57:46 AMBut the plot...it just diverges too much from everything I liked about KQ for me to ever agree that the writing is a huge part of what made the game good.
Fair enough, I am probably doomed since KQ6 was the first one I played.
But back on topic I thought KQ7 for the most part was solid barring the writing. The character models were a bit iffy but I thought the backgrounds were great, thought the music was great, voice acting was a little goofy but I didn't really mind. Although now that I think about it the puzzles were pretty mundane, and that cheese moon fountain thing, seriously your gown is already ruined Valanice just walk in there and grab it!
I didn't mind the Boogeyman's design. But just about everyone else needed a makeover.
I thought Boogeyman's design was awesome. He's like Jack Skellington and Gollum turned into one. I would've liked to see a lot more done with his character, really.
Ah yes the Boogeyman, a monster so fearsome Rosella had to walk away at a leisurely pace lest he feel like attacking.
"Never run from anything immortal. It attracts their attention."
(Clearly, Rosella got some chit-chat in with the Last Unicorn of Tamir before she left!)
Quote from: Lambonius on January 26, 2012, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: KatieHal on January 26, 2012, 06:30:04 AM
I thought you'd been enjoying GK2? Speaking of, did you ever finish the last chapter?
GK2 had some good moments--even great moments. But it is bogged down by an extremely slow pace and overly expository writing. Not to mention the slow and cheesy acting and awkwardly edited FMV (which actively contributes to the blah factor of the aforementioned problems.)
And no, I still haven't been able to bring myself to finish it. I just got so bored by the last chapter. Isn't the fact that I have no desire to finish the game a sign of the significance of its shortcomings? :)
**Any game that has as one of its required "puzzles" a sequence where the player must simply click every possible hotspot in an area and listen to slowly read exposition needs to go back to the damn drawing board. ;)
Keep telling you man, you should get to that opera video. It's the best thing in that game.
Quote from: 929572 on January 26, 2012, 10:58:02 AM
Heh. I acknowledge that KQ6 is a better game from a subjective standpoint, but I'm more likely to play KQ5...for the unintentional LOL moments, if nothing else.
*ahem* Back on topic.
I would definitely change the appearance of the characters. Maybe not so much what their faces look like, but what they're wearing. When I first saw what Edgar looked like...
[distracting image removed--oh, my eyes! ;)]
Between the long, wavy hair, superhero-like costume, and--you're not paying attention, are you? You're too busy gawking at the undisputed master of dental hygiene, aren't you? Sorry about that, just scroll down a little.
[...]
Anyway, the characters could use a serious makeover. Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking that the Were-bear is one of the goofiest, most nonthreatening monsters in the series. Or that Valanice looks like she belongs in a BBC film from the 70s...or that the Boogeyman looks like he could snap like a twig if you sneezed at him...or that the trolls look more like deformed hobbits than trolls...or that the Winds look like they belong in Ghostbusters...
The long hair on Edgar was originally used in concept art for Alexander in KQ6, and before that the KQ Companion depicted both Graham and Alex with long hair. As for the dress, though... it looks like they were trying to get something similar to the costumes of the Princes in Disney's Snow White and Sleeping Beauty.
Trying.
Valanice was also a borrowing from Disney-- for all visual purposes she IS Lady Tremaine in Cinderella. (The
villain!)
and Rosella is Alice in Wonderland, all the way down to following the rabbit down into the hole.
Not to mention Malicia's Jafar-esque appearance, complete with an obnoxious pet.
And I think that's one of the major issues is that they went so Disney cartoon with the whole game. King's Quest had never been cartoony before (with the exception of some parts of the KQ1 remake, which I absolutely despise). It might have been fantasy, fairy tale and had punny titles but it always played those attributes straight. There's a wolf in grandma's nightie, but it's not a funny, wacky thing (like the werebears). That wolf will straight up kill you if you stick around too long, nightie or not.
KQ7 was just too much of a cartoon. And yes, I know that's what they were going for. But why? Why do that? King's Quest had never needed that before. And it's not like Disney animation was a brand new thing that the kids were going crazy for, like they probably thought trying to add action and violence into MOE. Disney animation predated computers! It was really an out of nowhere change and it really clashes with what King's Quest had, up until that moment, been. Oh, and speaking of the cartoony artwork and the four fingers. Maybe they are easier to animate. And maybe that cheat is used all the time and people tend to not notice. But I think what might have made it more noticeable and more egregious here is that Rosella shoves her four-fingered hands right into the screen! As I recall, my responses to the opening movie and it's radical, cartoony change were as follows: "Is that...is that a cartoon caterpillar? Really? Ok, well there was an anthropomorphized caterpillar in the last...Is Rosella singing? REALLY? Ok, I...I just don't know...but I guess if there has to be a song I can deal and...DOES SHE ONLY HAVE FOUR FINGERS? THERE IS NO GOD!" I mean, they made sure we got a nice, long look at those fingers. They went full cartoon right there. King's Quest should never go full cartoon.
I know they were trying to appeal to kids, but why do that by going full cartoon and dumbing everything down? I grew up on the 16 color parser games and loved them! King's Quest has always been accessible to kids. KQ7 was just a mess. The cartoon art style didn't work, the plot was a jumbled mess, the lands didn't feel cohesive, and the characters were ill-defined. It just didn't work.
Quote from: Damar on January 27, 2012, 06:45:47 PMAnd it's not like Disney animation was a brand new thing that the kids were going crazy for
Partially true. Before the early 90's, Disney hadn't had a REALLY successful movie in almost 30 years. With "The Little Mermaid", "Beauty and the Beast", and "Aladdin" taking the world by storm, it was easy to see how Roberta Williams could get caught up in the excitement and create KQ7 in the same style. Kids WERE going crazy for anything Disney at the time. Heck, we even settled for the Disney knock-offs.
I don't think trying out a new look, and that look being Disney, was a bad move in and of itself. Unfortunately the execution is what really failed in this case, and combined with all the other flaws, it was just a mess overall.
That said, I'd still take the flawed cel-shaded cartoon look they used there over the awful early 3D graphics that ended up being used in MoE and GK3.
Quote from: 929572 on January 27, 2012, 09:47:21 AM
Not to mention Malicia's Jafar-esque appearance
Heey... ::)
Quote from: Scorpio82 on January 27, 2012, 10:47:11 PM
Quote from: Damar on January 27, 2012, 06:45:47 PMAnd it's not like Disney animation was a brand new thing that the kids were going crazy for
Partially true. Before the early 90's, Disney hadn't had a REALLY successful movie in almost 30 years. With "The Little Mermaid", "Beauty and the Beast", and "Aladdin" taking the world by storm, it was easy to see how Roberta Williams could get caught up in the excitement and create KQ7 in the same style. Kids WERE going crazy for anything Disney at the time. Heck, we even settled for the Disney knock-offs.
Ok. Fine. Disney imitation... Firstly, Family Guy did an AMAZING job (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-snfaG2JH8) copying Disney's style; Sierra didn't. But what kind of a Bipolar or Drug-induced situation was Roberta in to make KQ7 and PHANTASMAGORIA at the same time?!?!
This interview mentions that strange time period in 1995. (http://www.adventureclassicgaming.com/index.php/site/interviews/127/)
I would change that miserable Harp puzzle in Etheria, and do some MAJOR Quality Control, because that game had volume issues and timing issues galore. That's why I appreciate the Retry option - especially with the Firecrackers. But, it was the beginning of the end for stable KQ games; 5 waited until the very end to crash, 6 was stable, 7 was iffy, 8 was wretched.
I do like 7, but primarily due to its simplicity and reminiscing value.
Quote from: DawsonJ on January 30, 2012, 12:05:23 AMBut what kind of a Bipolar or Drug-induced situation was Roberta in to make KQ7 and PHANTASMAGORIA at the same time?!?!
She's always done horror/mystery and fantasy games back-to-back. "Mystery House" and "The Wizard and the Princess" for example. I've recently heard this referred to as a "tonal schism" where a developer wants to explore two very different subject matters at once (sort of a yin/yang balancing act for the brain). I'd imagine she just wanted to challenge herself.
It's not much different from Pheonix Online is working on "The Silver Lining" and "Cognition" at the same time either. One's a colorful fairy tale, the other's a screaming face looking at me from the left side of the screen.
True, Scorpio82, but Phoenix Online's take on the world of King's Quest is much more of an in-depth drama than canonical KQ games, so it's not a huge difference, like the positive Disney to NCIS that Roberta was doing simultaneously.