I downloaded the installer this morning. When it had finished downloading, my antivirus software immediately flagged it as dangerous and removed it. Is there truly a threat? If so, please resend a new link when it has been removed. If not, how can I download and install it?
Disable any antivirus software while running the installer. If you got it from Gamestop, Gamersgate, or Rain Digital Games, it's most definitely safe and the antivirus is just unfamiliar with the software because it's so new.
Just FYI, I'm a Kickstarter backer, so I got it from a direct download link in a backer email from the cognition team.
Ah yes the direct download for backers I'm even *more* sure is safe as I know nobody else has touched that file.
I've had this problem before. Norton is rather paranoid. If it doesn't know the file, it thinks it must be a virus. :P Internet Explorer will sometimes do this, too. :-\ In fact, I've had files that I compiled on my own machine get flagged as suspicious. ::)
I had a similar problem. Downloaded the game file from the FTP site for backers. When the download finished, my system pretty much froze. Task Manager showed that MS Security Essentials was scanning something, presumably the file. I waited and waited but the system was frozen, so I had to reboot.
Then, I couldn't do anything with the installer file. Right click on it and windows explorer froze. Try to delete it and nothing happened. Try to execute it and nothing happened. Yet, during all of this my hard drive space was shrinking in real time as I refreshed "My Computer". However, based on later scans and searches the installer didn't actually run.
After multiple reboots, disk defrags, and two check disk runs (chkdsk), the file was removed but my HD space is missing 6.8 GB. As in, My Computer thinks 6.8 GB extra space are taken up, but WinDirStat shows the correct volume occupied. So, that HD space was somehow corrupted or otherwise lost, and I can't seem to get it back after staying up all night last night doing various diagnostics and prior-mentioned tasks.
I'm going to hold off on downloading the backer installer and see if others have issues. Since one person's AV software detected a threat, and I had all these problems, there could be problems with the installer.
:(
Hi Inm8#2,
The build that is up has been tested by our guys many times. We know backers are already playing the game as they are giving us feedback, so we know the file works and is not unsafe. I'll let Weldon try to help you through your issues. I know you've been waiting very eagerly to play the game. Sorry for the inconveniences.
Cez
Quote from: inm8#2 on October 30, 2012, 11:14:02 AM
I had a similar problem. Downloaded the game file from the FTP site for backers. When the download finished, my system pretty much froze. Task Manager showed that MS Security Essentials was scanning something, presumably the file. I waited and waited but the system was frozen, so I had to reboot.
Then, I couldn't do anything with the installer file. Right click on it and windows explorer froze. Try to delete it and nothing happened. Try to execute it and nothing happened. Yet, during all of this my hard drive space was shrinking in real time as I refreshed "My Computer". However, based on later scans and searches the installer didn't actually run.
After multiple reboots, disk defrags, and two check disk runs (chkdsk), the file was removed but my HD space is missing 6.8 GB. As in, My Computer thinks 6.8 GB extra space are taken up, but WinDirStat shows the correct volume occupied. So, that HD space was somehow corrupted or otherwise lost, and I can't seem to get it back after staying up all night last night doing various diagnostics and prior-mentioned tasks.
I'm going to hold off on downloading the backer installer and see if others have issues. Since one person's AV software detected a threat, and I had all these problems, there could be problems with the installer.
:(
Yeah there's definitely nothing wrong with the installer itself, and it doesn't take up anywhere near that much space, so I'm not entirely sure what could be going on there. Do you have stuff in your Recycle Bin waiting to be deleted?
No recycle bin content, LOL. Again, I've run diagnostics and disk checks. The summary of the problem can be seen here: http://i.imgur.com/5Fbyp.png
Basically, after the download finished my system was scanning it, problems arose, and 9 GB of space were lost on my HD (I was literally refreshing My Computer and seeing my free space drop every few seconds). This isn't hidden files, restore points, or anything like that. There's actually 218 GB of files, but my computer thinks it's 225 GB.
Most likely segments of my HD have been corrupted and lost. Chkdsk found corrupt file sectors, for example. After one defrag I recovered about 2 GB of space, but I'm still "missing" almost 7 GB. If the installer is ok and other people have downloaded and played the game successfully, then I'm not sure what happened on my end.
But at this point it's a separate problem from the game, and I'll have to figure it out elsewhere. I was all set to play last night, too. :/
I hope I can fix this soon, then I'll try again to play later on this week.
I am having the same problem, this is very serious!
I am also a KS backer. For reference, I am using Windows 7 and Internet Explorer 9 with the latest patches. My anti-virus is Microsoft Security Essentials.
When I downloaded the file, it downloaded up to 99% and then seemed to have stalled (I waited over half an hour and it still read 99%). So I hit cancel, but instead of the temporary file disappearing from my download directory (my desktop), CognitionBacker.exe magically appeared.
I never tried running it. Instead I thought I would delete the file and download it again. But to my surprise, I cannot delete the file! To make things worse, my hard drive seems to be running continously, but when I hit control-alt-delete, no unknown program seems to be running! The worst of all, my hard drive space is shrinking by the second (it's down to 5 gigs now).... what the hell is going on!?
I tried running Windows in safe mode, but the entire screen was blank. I can restart/shutdown my computer like normal, but as soon as I log-in, the computer seems to get back into the process of doing something which I cannot stop.
Never had this problem before. Something is definitely very wrong here!
(Posted on: October 30, 2012, 02:33:58 PM)
inm8#2, I don't think it's just you, because I am having very similiar problems.
I still cannot delete the file from my desktop. I cannot even right click on it to look at its properties. My computer is continously doing something, as evident from the flashing harddrive light. My hard disc space is dropping. I hope this is not permanent damage! Please help!
(Posted on: October 30, 2012, 02:36:03 PM)
I am sorry, but with the information I have, I am convinced CognitionBackerSetup.exe is corrupted. This has never happened to me before. I run my anti-virus every morning and have never had any viruses on this computer. I ONLY use this machine for schoolwork.
I am backing up this computer as we speak. Hopefully I can reinstall Windows and get everything the way it was. POS needs to address this situation. I don't think this happening to two people (on the very first day of release!) is a mere coincidence.
Quote from: greenisles on October 30, 2012, 12:40:12 PM
I am having the same problem, this is very serious!
I am also a KS backer. For reference, I am using Windows 7 and Internet Explorer 9 with the latest patches. My anti-virus is Microsoft Security Essentials.
When I downloaded the file, it downloaded up to 99% and then seemed to have stalled (I waited over half an hour and it still read 99%). So I hit cancel, but instead of the temporary file disappearing from my download directory (my desktop), CognitionBacker.exe magically appeared.
I never tried running it. Instead I thought I would delete the file and download it again. But to my surprise, I cannot delete the file! To make things worse, my hard drive seems to be running continously, but when I hit control-alt-delete, no unknown program seems to be running on my desktop! The worst of all, my hard drive space is shrinking by the second (it's down to 5 gigs now).
I tried running Windows in safe mode, but the entire screen was blank. I can restart/shutdown my computer like normal, but as soon as I log-in, the computer seems to get back into the process of doing something which I cannot stop.
Never had this problem before. Something is definitely very wrong here!
(Posted on: October 30, 2012, 02:33:58 PM)
inm8#2, I don't think it's just you, because I am having very similiar problems.
I still cannot delete the file from my desktop. I cannot even right click on it to look at its properties. My computer is continously doing something, as evident from the flashing harddrive light. My hard disc space is dropping. I hope this is not permanent damage! Please help!
(Posted on: October 30, 2012, 02:36:03 PM)
I am sorry, but with the information I have, I am convinced CognitionBackerSetup.exe is corrupted. This has never happened to me before. I run my anti-virus every morning and have never had any viruses on this computer. I ONLY use this machine for schoolwork.
I am backing up this computer as we speak. Hopefully I can reinstall Windows as get everything the way it was. POS needs to address this situation. I don't think this happening to two people is a coincidence.
Very disappointed.
The file itself is definitely fine - we have a number of backers who have downloaded and run it without any problems at all. I would recommend just disabled Security Essentials temporarily as it seems to be having trouble processing the entire file.
Some more information: I have currently disabled my Microsoft Security Essentials. Doesn't seem to make a difference.
Also, when I did a quick scan on my computer (after all these problems started), the program seemed to get hung up on CognitionBackerSetup.exe.
(Posted on: October 30, 2012, 02:44:42 PM)
Wilco, please help me. My Microsoft Security Essentials has been disabled. Still having the same problems. I am scared of losing all the info on my computer. What happens when my hard drive space drops to 0? System crash? Right now it's at 4.64 gigs, and dropping (I should have 15+).
As I said, doing a restart does nothing. And Safe Mode doesn't show properly.
Try running task manager and looking for any active processes that are eating up resources and end those processes.
Did that already. It was the first thing I did. Nothing unusual. The biggest process is Explorer.exe at 33,100 k. Every time I start any program (including IE), my computer seems to freeze and I have to close everything, including the backup process. I am going to close IE for now and finish backing up my computer in case I have to reinstall.
I'm pretty certain the space being taken up is just the installer being processed, Windows pulls all the data from it into a temporary location while the installer runs. After saving the file and then running it, it's typically going to take a bit of time for Windows to process the size of the file before the installer actually starts running so if you double-clicked the file multiple times during that process it may be trying to run more than once simultaneously.
No, I never double clicked on the file. As I said before, my original intention was to delete the file and try downloading again. But it doesn't let me delete. I don't understand why my hard drive space is falling. What new info. is being loaded onto my comp?
Anyway, I got to log off for now and let my computer backup.
Quote from: greenisles on October 30, 2012, 01:02:22 PM
No, I never double clicked on the file. As I said before, my original intention was to delete the file and try downloading again. But it doesn't let me delete. I don't understand why my hard drive space is falling. What new info. is being loaded onto my comp?
Anyway, I got to log off for now and let my computer backup.
Did you just save the file or try to run it directly from the download link? Even without running it, it's possible that Security Essentials is just using up a lot of extra space while it processes the file. I did some searching about it on Google and found a number of people complaining about Security Essentials basically taking over their computer for a long while after downloading large files.
I'd also recommend looking in Security Essentials and look in the History section under Quarantined Items to see if it decided to quarantine the installer. That would take up space and may not show up as normal "used" space.
greenisles, what you're describing is EXACTLY what happened to me!
My MSE runs every day as well. I've downloaded 3+ GB files from GOG.com or elsewhere, and when the download completes the browser scan finishes in a few seconds with no problem.
Yup, I didn't execute the installer file. I just tried to right click on it and explorer would freeze. And before that, after logging into Windows from restarting, I checked my computer and the space was shrinking. Didn't see anything out of the ordinary in Task Manager. Couldn't delete the file.
A process in Task Manager isn't just going to eat almost 10 GB in a matter of a minute. This is a deeper issue. An extra 9 GB temporary space for a downloaded file isn't normal, and it's not normal for MSE to need that much space (if any space at all). MSE would use RAM, not HDD space, to run a virus check. And since I am no longer running the scan, there would be no reason for that space to still be occupied.
I know wilco is trying to help, and I hope this doesn't come out wrong, but I'm finding some of the suggestions glossing over what seems to be a deeper issue, even if it's out of POStudios' hands. When two of us have detailed the issue, shown technical knowledge, skill with diagnostics, etc., it seems like all this information we've provided is being trivialized in favor of things like checking the recycle bin or Task Manager. I know it's not easy to problem solve remotely, but I feel our responses are detailed and thoughtful enough to rule out things like forgetting to empty the recycle bin. Again, the issue is that after the download, the file was corrupted, and it instantaneously ate nearly 10 GB of space. That is not normal, and it's not the fault of us trying to run the installer, or other programs all of a sudden consuming 10 GB. We understand others have not had issues, but that doesn't mean there isn't a chance of there being an issue with the file. It's frustrating to simply be told, "The installer is fine," multiple times in a sort of defensive manner. We are not trying to make accusations. We are reporting issues with the file.
Both of our hard disks have more or less been corrupted, and storage capacity has been lost.
greenisles, after doing a couple restarts due to my explorer freezing when I tried to delete the installer file (literally nothing would happen then it'd just hang up), my system automatically did a chkdsk at boot. I then decided to do a system restore to a point that was thankfully saved earlier in the day. After the restore, I defragged my HDD and got about 2 GB of space back (still missing 7 GB). Then restarted to do another chkdsk, and no extra space was recovered but my chkdsk log file shows numerous bad file sectors having been detected.
I realize this isn't what you guys want to read, but two of us have had the exact same problem. Whether it's a direct problem with the installer file, we don't know, but needless to say it's not something like a random task, recycle bin, etc. Most of us are smart enough to diagnose and interpret problems on our computers, and to isolate what the issue is while verifying what aren't issues. But now we have two reported cases of the download apparently being corrupted somehow, and this causing considerable hard disk space loss.
I'll post this image again since it wasn't addressed before - WinDirStat is a program that scans your system and gives you a visual map of your hard drive occupancy by file type, size, etc. The total space used reported by WinDirStat should match the total space used from clicking Properties on the C:\ drive.
http://i.imgur.com/5Fbyp.png
(http://i.imgur.com/5Fbyp.png)
WinDirStat tells me there is a total of 218.2 GB of space used by all files, including hidden ones, on my hard drive. My Computer says that 225 GB are being used. Therefore, as of this moment I am missing 6.8 GB due to HD corruption. This matches my own calculations based on how much space I had before downloading the Cognition installer, how much was lost, the 2 GB that was recovered by defragging, etc. 100% verified.
Not sure where to go from here. Like I said I'm going to look around for potential fixes and tools I can use, or get help in a dedicated tech forum. I'm curious if anyone else is having the issue, and if so please post and let us know.
Hey guys,
I'm not a techie and would be as lost as hell if this were me, but I do want to make sure you both know we are absolutely going to figure out the problem and get you working downloads/copies of the game. And though it's bad news to hear, thank you for reporting it quickly because it is a serious issue and one we want to figure out the solution to (and cause of!). Though we've had others able to download and install without this problem, if the two of you have it, it's probable someone else has or will, and we want to make sure this kind of thing gets fixed ASAP.
So, our apologies for these problems, and we appreciate your feedback and patience while we do our best to find a solution for you both.
this happened to me with the demo. The way i fixed it is: right click the file, properties, general tab, and then click "unblock" towards the bottom. Then i could delete it.
Rest assured, I do understand what you're saying and I have looked over the images that have been provided, etc. but honestly I have no idea what could possibly be causing this issue. It didn't happen to any testers, a number of other backers have reported successful installations and gameplay, and I myself have downloaded and done test installs of every installation package we have out there with no problems at all.
The only thing I can think of at the moment is that Security Essentials stalled for some reason on this particular file, and I'm not entirely sure why that would happen. I'll continue trying to research the issue to see what I can find out, but I am 100% certain it's not the file itself.
Hey guys, we just had a few more people try the file, and I just tried it again myself on 3 different computers and the game installs correctly. Please continue to update us so that we can figure out what the problem is, but it definitely has to do with something in your computer not liking the files, otherwise it would happen on every computer.
But please, give us as much info as possible and we'll continue to work with you until we figure this one out.
Sorry again for the inconvenience.
i just remembered more details of my experience with the demo: initially i couldnt even right click the file. But i could move it, so i moved it onto the desktop, restarted, and then all of a sudden i could right click it. i couldnt delete it or start it, i was like the other people here and thought it was corrupted on my drive, but i could click properties and select "unblock" and then everything was fine.
I just finished attempting to install this on my super old crappy laptop with Windows XP and nowhere near enough video memory or RAM to actually run the game decently, it sat around with the hard drive light having a coronary for about 20 minutes after it finished the download, and then it took another 10 minutes after I double-clicked the file before the installer actually appeared, but it did work on that computer as well. Totally unplayable on that machine, but I was able to download and install that file.
Ok, I finally have some good news on my end:
After I finished backing up my computer onto an external drive, I removed Microsoft Security Essentials from my computer. During this process, the computer was still hung up on *something* and was slowly eating my hard drive space. As soon as the program was uninstalled, my computer *finally* stopped whatever it had been doing, and *some* of my space (~5 gigs) instantly reappeared.
At this point I had control over my computer again (i.e. doing simple tasks like opening my computer or Internet Explorer was no longer causing the system to stop responding). I immediately dragged the Cognition.exe file into my trash and emptied the bin. Then I shut down my computer and booted it up again.
Since then, I have reinstalled Microsoft Security Essentials and ran the updater to patch it to its most current version. My hard drive (solid state drive actually) is up to 18.8 gigs of free space now. I don't remember what it was at before this morning so I can't sure that I've gotten everything back, but at least things have stabilized now.
Like inm8#2, I have downloaded several large files in the past (from Gog.com and elsewhere) and MSE has never given any problems like the one I experienced today. Also I should mention that, like inm8#2, my computer automatically ran chkdsk once during one of my reboots (before I uninstalled MSE).
I wanted to share my experience in case it's helpful for you all. I'm so glad I didn't have to reinstall my computer, a process that takes at least 1.5 valuable working days of my time. I DO believe there is a problem with Microsoft Security Essentials AND your file (I don't think it's entirely Microsoft's fault because, like I mentioned, I've never had this problem in the 10+ months I've had this computer w/ MSE installed).
At this point I do not have Cognition installed on my computer, which is a shame because I was really looking forward to playing it for Halloween. But my computer's health (and my sanity haha) is far more important than any videogame at this point.
It seems to be mainly an issue of the finished file being scanned and consolidated onto the HD. This process causes a huge, instantanenous loss of storage space, and the installer file is unmanageable (can't be moved, right-clicked, deleted, etc.).
I'm not sure how something like this could be fixed if the problem can't be replicated on other systems, other than the reported two on which it happened. But from my end the issue occurred when Firefox finished the download and was scanning the file. It may not be the Cognition file at all, but at the same time I don't have this issue with other extremely large downloads.
I'm a patient person and am not of the mindset that I need to play the game as soon as possible at all costs. Obviously I'd love to play Cognition as soon as I can, but my priorities are in trying to recover my lost space and ensure my HDD is healthy. Only then I'll try to download the file again, but to be safe I may try downloading onto another PC then transferring it.
FWIW I was able to download and run the demo with zero complications.
Sorry to put a small damper on your release day, and I hope I don't come off as impatient or upset. I just have a tendency to be as detailed and informative when reporting these kinds of issues to paint as clear a picture as possible. But it sounds like most others are playing and installing the game without issues.
Hi inm8#2, I just posted above you, please check it out. Thanks for sharing your experiences btw (although it sucks that this also happened to you, I'm glad someone was there to back me up).
I *think* all of my solid state drive space has returned. Like I said, I can't be sure. I was considering wiping everything out and reinstalling Windows again, but at this point it's not worth the time. Maybe over winter holiday...
Also, I should mention, I had no problems with the Cognition demo.
It's totally fine, I completely understand the frustration and would be equally frustrated myself. No doubt part of the issue is that the file isn't digitally signed with some certificate for Microsoft to be happy with it. We did look into doing that but decided to keep all the resources we had focused on actually developing the game.
It might be worth just temporarily turning off the real-time stuff for Security Essentials while downloading and installing the game if you want to give that a try later.
greenisles, that's good news. I just saw your post after writing mine. I'm glad you more or less resolved your issue. :)
Do you mind if you download and run WinDirStat?
http://windirstat.info/
You can compare the used space from WDS to the used space from your drive properties (see my previous posts for the reference). If they match all your space has been recovered. Any difference would be "lost" space.
Also, since you have an SSD you shouldn't run disk defragmenter (but hopefully your SSD has TRIM support).
@ wilco, thanks. Yea I might try that in a couple days or whenever I feel I've resolved my issue. But like greenisles said , the problem seems to boil down to some issue between MSE's certificates and the installer file. Not 100% sure, of course. And I obviously know it's not easy to cover all these potential issues and during the whole process haven't held it against you guys at all. s*** happens.
I'm wary about installing any additional programs on my machine (especially after today), as this is my work/study computer and I don't want to get into any problems at this point. In fact, the only non-educational stuff I have installed at the time being are Dosbox and The Quest for Glory Collection. I used to have the Cognition Demo, but that was uninstalled when I got the release e-mail this morning.
Are you still having problems? Did you try uninstalling your anti-virus? Or if it's a built-in antivirus, how about uninstalling Firefox? Just some suggestions, since uninstalling MSE worked for me.
(Posted on: October 30, 2012, 05:24:48 PM)
Also, thanks for the tip regarding disk defragment. I've known for a while that it's not meant for SSDs, but it was kind of you to mention it just in case. :)
(Posted on: October 30, 2012, 05:27:26 PM)
Ok, I downloaded the program you suggested. Unforunately I seem to be missing space as well :(
Right clicking on my C: drive shows 107 gigs as being used, but WinStat says only 101.4 is used.
Wow. Have I lost this space permanently? I think I may try reinstalling my computer now, which is 1.5 days of my life down the drain... :(
edit - and just saw your update.
That's what I feared - you have missing space, too. Mine is 6.8 GB, yours appears to be 5.6 GB.
I'm not sure how to recover it. Will be seeking help on tech support forums when I can later today. I wasn't really convinced that uninstalling MSE would do the trick.
During the whole process, I'm not sure what happened, but Windows thinks that space is still being used. During the system hangup maybe the OS was dumping temporary files somewhere and lost track of them. I'm not sure.
If you right click on "Computer" in the Start Menu, select "Manage", then check your Disk Management, it should show the total drive capacity. Mine is as it should be. The system just thinks 6.8 GB are being used when they aren't.
Yeah, my total drive capacity is correctly shown as well, but the amount used does not match up with the number calculated by WinDirStat.
I thought you were still experiencing the hard drive constantly being used/drive being eaten problem, which is why I recommended uninstalling the antivirus. I guess we're both in the same situation now (i.e. computer stable, but drive with mysteriously lost space)? Please let me know if you find a solution to this. A complete format and reinstall *should* fix the problem, right?
To Phoenix Online: I think you may want to look into this problem further, or at least post some sort of disclaimer so that future customers don't experience the same fate as we two did. I think telling people to disable their antivirus BEFORE downloading the file could be extremely helpful.
(Posted on: October 30, 2012, 10:07:47 PM)
Ok, so I formatted my drive and reinstalled my computer (that's the easy part - the hard part is getting all my files and programs up and running).
I also installed WinDirStat (WDS) again, but this time I'm having the opposite problem:
Total capacity on C: drive (WDS): 121.8 gigs
Total capacity on C: drive (Windows properties): 119
Size used on C: drive (WDS): 17.8
Size used on C: drive (Windows properties): 14.9
Free space on C: drive (WDS): 104
Free space on C: drive (Windows properties): 104
So basically the free space on my drive matches up, but the total capacity and space used don't. I'm thinking these are just manufacturer files that WDS is picking up that Windows doesn't use in its own calculations? Or do you think I permanently lost some space with this morning's situation?
(Posted on: October 30, 2012, 11:44:33 PM)
Also note: the numbers from Windows properties add up correctly (14.9 + 104 = 119) and ditto for the WDS numbers (17.8 + 104 = 121.8 ).
I just don't understand where the 17.8 (and consequently, 121.8 ) are coming from.
I can't remember if my SSD capacity is 119 or 121.8. I wish I did, as this would help answer all my questions... :(
If your free space is in agreement, I think you're okay. Maybe WDS is picking up on some hidden files since it definitely scans for everything. I'm not sure, though. If you have recovery partitions maybe WDS is reading that also.
I don't know your situation exactly, but I *think* you should be fine. I really, really want to avoid formatting my HD and reinstalling everything. I am currently running a HD diagnostic test per advice from another forum. I'll keep you updated probably through PM since we're getting OT here.
The major question is if you'll give the download another try! If I fix everything I will try downloading to USB through another PC then installing. But that's some days away, I fear.
Hope your guys computers are fine. Really, really sorry for what's happened, and I hope that you guys can enjoy the game very soon!!
Keep us posted, I'm keeping an eye on this thread.
Hi,
I've have the exact same problem when using the kickstarter download and have tried it on two different PC's.
Both of them stalls when after trying to download the file, like it never finishes the download and it's not possible to right click the file.
Both times I've been able to get rid of the executable stressing the system by using "moveonboot".
But I just can't install the game and that's sad after backing the project and really looking forward to it.
Could you perhaps zip the file or divide the installation into smaller files.
The file is actually already compressed, it's just best to disable any antivirus or Security Essentials before even starting the download so they can't panic and take over at all.
I've run two extended diagnostic tests on my hard drive. Both tests have run slowly, stalled, and eventually failed due to many bad sectors.
With a third report of the same issue, I don't think it's an isolated problem.
Quote from: inm8#2 on October 31, 2012, 10:34:43 AM
I've run two extended diagnostic tests on my hard drive. Both tests have run slowly, stalled, and eventually failed due to many bad sectors.
With a third report of the same issue, I don't think it's an isolated problem.
While I agree that a number of people may be likely to encounter the same issue, I don't think there's anything that we can do about it from our end. It'd take a significant amount of time for us to get the proper certificates coordinated through Microsoft, and a pretty solid chunk of change out of our already stretched-super-thin budget.
The recommendation I always give in general is to shut off antivirus software anytime somebody is downloading a product from a trusted source. And never to turn off a system during a memory dump or virus scan.
Actually, signatures on large files can cause issues, too, since the entire file has to be processed in order to determine if the key is valid. :-\ I came across this with UAC on Windows 7 a while back - it took a few minutes before it even prompted me about allowing the installer to run.
Quote from: wilco64256 on October 31, 2012, 12:48:30 PM
Quote from: inm8#2 on October 31, 2012, 10:34:43 AM
I've run two extended diagnostic tests on my hard drive. Both tests have run slowly, stalled, and eventually failed due to many bad sectors.
With a third report of the same issue, I don't think it's an isolated problem.
While I agree that a number of people may be likely to encounter the same issue, I don't think there's anything that we can do about it from our end. It'd take a significant amount of time for us to get the proper certificates coordinated through Microsoft, and a pretty solid chunk of change out of our already stretched-super-thin budget.
The recommendation I always give in general is to shut off antivirus software anytime somebody is downloading a product from a trusted source. And never to turn off a system during a memory dump or virus scan.
If someone's system is frozen due to that file causing issues, and they wait hours with nothing happening, they really have no choice but to turn off or restart since the damage has been done at that point. That's why chkdsk ran automatically after reboot. Plus, when greenisles and I logged into our systems and saw the HDD capacity dropping, it was due to the bad sectors on the hard drive being closed off so that they can't be used.
Turning off antivirus software for every time you download something isn't really a wise practice. One cannot simply categorize which sources are trusted and which ones aren't. But this issue is one I've never had from various other sources and file sizes.
Personally I haven't use real-time virus protection for years and haven't had a single problem. I just run an online scan from Housecall once a week and also scan individual files as needed before uploading or running them. Prior to that, I had major headaches with Nortan, Symantec, and Microsoft all blocking things that I knew were safe and creating more frustration than they saved.
I definitely do wish there were something we could do on our end to assist with this, but I'm really not certain there's anything that we can do about this one. Perhaps after the game has been out for a couple of weeks the antivirus systems will be less freaked out by it and more cooperative.
In two years of using Microsoft Security Essentials on Windows 7, and downloading all types and sizes of files from countless sources, this is the first issue of its kind I've had.
I fail to see how antivirus systems will be "less freaked out" by a specific file in a couple weeks if, as you've said, certificates aren't being actively pursued. I don't think a lack of certificates is the issue.
This discussion has gone from talking about an issue with the installer file to blaming antivirus software, or criticizing users for not having the foresight to disable said software, or criticizing them for being forced to restart their computers after hours of waiting with the system completely frozen.
I think I've conveyed the issue, my diagnostics and efforts to repair, etc. pretty clearly. Others have reported the same issue. Yet the discussion diverts to why people shouldn't use real-time virus protection, while points made or repeated about the problem are ignored (e.g. it's been said that systems were frozen for hours, but posts suggest people got impatient and rebooted after a few minutes).
I've spent two days on this and will probably have to replace my hard drive (with money I don't have). Being blamed for using a very trustworthy, widely used (http://hothardware.com/News/Microsoft-Security-Essentials-Picks-Up-Market-Share/) antivirus software doesn't seem very empathetic or conducive for productive discussion about a technical issue we've identified.
I've been respectful and calm in this discussion, but the dismissive manner in which my posts are being responded to (with parts of them ignored) concerns me. I'm not angry or upset- simply disappointed.
I'm really not trying to be dismissive in any way, there's just really absolutely nothing else that we can do to make Security Essentials be less problematic. We sent this installer to over 600 people and have only had three people come back with this issue. As much as I like to try and fix everything I possibly can, some things are just completely random, unpredictable, and unpreventable. I am tremendously sorry about the issue you encountered and don't mean to downplay its impact for you personally in any way, but there's really not anything we could do differently to make sure that not one single person has any problem downloading or installing a program.
I've already conceded that not much can be done about the issue if you can't replicate it or didn't hear about it during beta tests or from other backers currently playing.
http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=12498.msg344601#msg34460
But nevertheless, it's something that's happened with at least three people (four including the OP), and two different programs had trouble processing the file.
My mindset here isn't that I must play the game as soon as possible at all costs, and I haven't made any demands. I think my posts have been rational, detailed, and informative about the issue.
Again, my primary concern has been the responses that unnecessarily and continually shift blame onto the users by saying it's our mistake for using widely accepted antivirus software, then using this to rationalize the problem we've dealt with.
We have been respectful in this process, but I find it extremely discomforting that it seems acceptable for "only three people" out of 600 people to have their hard drives ruined. That attitude in itself is extremely dismissive, and I take some offense at the suggestion it's okay for a few people to go through this.
The users are posting about the problem so a solution could be potentially and collectively found. I personally would hope that others don't suffer the same outcome I have.
I've tried to be reasonable, but at this point this thread has left quite a poor impression upon me, not for the problem specifically, but for the other reasons I've had to raise multiple times.
its really quite strange, eeeverything you guys described happened to me the night they released the demo. The download messed up riiight before it finished, then i struggled for hours trying to interact with the file at all and had disk problems.
But when i downloaded the demo again, none of it happened. So i assumed i was a fluke. But now im convinced its related.
I dont think this is what they call a "false positive", because it never showed up in my antivirus logs. But it is probably related to windows security in some way.
Quote from: inm8#2 on October 31, 2012, 02:48:18 PM
We have been respectful in this process, but I find it extremely discomforting that it seems acceptable for "only three people" out of 600 people to have their hard drives ruined. That attitude in itself is extremely dismissive, and I take some offense at the suggestion it's okay for a few people to go through this.
Again, we apologize for the inconveniences, we are not dismissing the problem. We have been continuously discussing it internally, but there are things that are beyond our control.
Our IT person mentioned this to us today regarding differences in hard drive space, because we sent him the picture you had posted here.
"This is normal, when you buy 300GB hard drive you don't have 300GB, you more likely have 280. File allocation table parameters are not rounded off to whole numbers. The larger a drive is the more "Off" space a person will have and these number are reported differently between looking at properties on drive and data tables. "
We've been truly trying to run tests and seeing if we can reproduce the issue you are having with no luck. We aren't folding our arms on it, and I don't want you to get that impression, but so far, we haven't been lucky reproducing it.
It is our wish here to make sure you guys are having the best experience possible. If you want to discuss other possibilities in which we could make up for this, please email us at support@postudios.com and we can discuss it over there.
Thank you, and apologies again.
Quote from: Cez on October 31, 2012, 04:34:17 PM
"This is normal, when you buy 300GB hard drive you don't have 300GB, you more likely have 280. File allocation table parameters are not rounded off to whole numbers. The larger a drive is the more "Off" space a person will have and these number are reported differently between looking at properties on drive and data tables. "
Dear Cesar,
Thanks for your response, but this quoted part is quite troublesome to me. Please allow me to explain why.
I am aware that hard drives use less space than the maximum capacity (usually around 10% is not used). This is because that space is actually reserved for cases like mine - when bad sectors need to be 'replaced' with working ones. However, when the number of bad sectors is large, the drive becomes unstable and eventually fails.
I've accepted the apologies and never doubted they're sincere. I haven't had any hard feelings, but something that seemingly questions my computing skills or understanding of how hard drives work is what stands out to me. If you guys had just said, "Hey, we're sorry, we tested the file on various systems and didn't find this issue. Let us know if we can help or if you find a solution to your issue," it would have been fine.
I came here to see if other users had this issue, discuss it with them, and work to a solution. I accept its out of your hands to determine what exactly happened with the three or four of us. I don't hold it against you guys. But each response keeps telling me I somehow did something wrong, or my understanding of something is wrong. The general progression of the thread is:
- A couple users report the same issue with the download of the installer file freezing their system and causing hard drive problems, and that hard drive capacity is reduced due to corruption during download process. Details and background are provided to PO in case they need to investigate or repair the installer file
- Users are told to empty recycle bins and that the installer is fine
- Users then told to disable AV software
- Some details provided by user overlooked, when my intent was to be informative so that people can understand, discuss, and potentially resolve the issue.
- User has to repeat and outline the problem and show proof that something did happen
- At this point its again said to not use AV software, and the discussion is derailed a bit
- After explaining the problem with communication in this thread, it's suggested that three afflicted hard drives out of 600 is acceptable.
- Now, the occurrence of this issue is questioned in the quoted section above.
All the details regarding the systems freezing for hours, rebooting, automatically running a "chkdsk", logging into windows and watching the HD space decrease in real time as the affected sectors are essentially quarantined establish the issue. The stagnation when the downloaded file was being scanned caused hard drive corruption.
So, we've gone from discussing and explaining a problem, to looking for a solution, to having a temporary workaround, to now saying the reported HDD space is actually fine, which suggests no problem occurred. As the discussion has progressed, I've gone from explaining the problem to simply needing to establish that it happened. All of the information, details, diagnostics, etc. that I've been providing have seemingly been marginalized. I stated earlier that resolving my HD issue was not relevant to this thread, but figuring out potential causes for the download/filescan issue could be helpful for at least for preventive measures.
Just as a side note I've sought the aid of tech repair experts on another forum and run two separate HDD diagnostics:
http://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm
http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=612&sid=3&lang=en
Both tests run a detailed disk verification. Run separately, both tests have failed to complete due to the presence of too many bad sectors on the HDD, as reported by the WDC tool. Here are two comments I've received:
"Test results indicate that a new drive is in order."
"Generally if the Western Digital diagnostic software is showing bad sectors then these are not likely to be recoverable. If I was in your situation I would replace the hard drive. "
I feel it necessary to include all this above information demonstrate that there was a problem, and it's not because of my understanding of HDD space. And once more I'm not making demands, assigning blame, or posting in an angry manner, but the same thing did happen to at least three of us. After all the discussion, the issue is apparently attributed to the user's understanding of HDD capacity. I don't see how anyone could draw that conclusion given all the information greenisles and I have provided. I'm really not sure how to react to this, other than having to reiterate and detail the problem once more, and point to my previous posts which include detailed accounts of what happened (which matches greenisles' case).
My frustration has stemmed from the communication aspects, rather than the technical issues I'm facing.
I am not trying to be difficult or raise a stink here, but I feel compelled to clarify all these points based on responses I've received. I've done my best to be rational and reasonable here, agreeing that the problem isn't one we could have foreseen, and it's not something that can be completely prevented. Nobody/nothing is immune from PC issues, and as a long time computer user I know that as well as anyone. I even apologized earlier in this thread for having to bring this up on launch day, since the last thing I want to do is dampen what should be a great time for you all (and it still is given the positive feedback on the game). Honestly, I hesitated to even post in the first place. I have never had any intention of blaming anybody. But I felt it was important share my experience, see if others had a similar issue (which they did), and find a solution if possible. Plus, by diagnosing the problem others may be able to avoid it. I have accepted that at this point, disabling MSE during the download is probably the best route, whenever I reach that stage. It's not optimal, and the technical side of me always wants to figure out root causes of problems, but I don't expect us to be able to accomplish that. It's more about people being aware in case they are susceptible to the same issue.
But it's some of the responses and comments I've mentioned that have troubled me. I really hope that my posts are clear enough to both illustrate the issue we had with downloading and enlighten what was problematic in the ensuing discussion.
Thanks for reading.
We truly appreciate that you've taken the time to report these issues. You'll have to excuse our ignorance regarding your skill level when dealing with technical issues --there's no way for us to know that. We are trying to work through the problem ourselves and trying to provide solutions to a problem we are no able to reproduce because it's a shame that this has happened to you.
So, it's not in our intention to offend you, or to diminish the issue or brush it aside. Everything we have offered is to try and help you through the problem you are now facing. By saying something like you have to replace a hard drive with money you don't have, makes me feel responsible for what happened. It's my natural reaction to want to help you with this issue.
I've personally seen how excited you've been about the release of this game, and how supportive you've been overall in articles and forums threads at adventuregamers, and I hate to see this happening to you on what should have been a very happy experience.
Again, feel free to contact us directly at the email provided earlier should you continue to experience issues with the product.
Thank you.
Quote from: Cez on October 31, 2012, 04:34:17 PM
"This is normal, when you buy 300GB hard drive you don't have 300GB, you more likely have 280. File allocation table parameters are not rounded off to whole numbers. The larger a drive is the more "Off" space a person will have and these number are reported differently between looking at properties on drive and data tables. "
At least part of this issue is the difference between GB (=1000 MB) and GiB (=1024 MiB), etc. Windows reports size in KiB/MiB/GiB/TiB, whereas hard drive manufacturers use MB/KB/GB. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix).
I looked into this, and WinDirStat and Windows do appear to report about the same amount of disk space (actually, WinDirStat reported a little more than Windows in my case - as long as your user has permissions to everything, which appears to be the case with inm8#2).
Something I'm not clear on - is it even possible for software to create bad sectors on a hard disk? I thought that was a hardware problem, but I'm no expert. ???
Quote from: inm8#2 on October 31, 2012, 02:25:22 PM
I fail to see how antivirus systems will be "less freaked out" by a specific file in a couple weeks if, as you've said, certificates aren't being actively pursued. I don't think a lack of certificates is the issue.
I don't know about MSE specifically, but some programs rely partly on a file's "reputation" which, at the time of initial release, is nonexistent.
Quote from: snabbott on November 01, 2012, 12:25:03 PMI don't know about MSE specifically, but some programs rely partly on a file's "reputation" which, at the time of initial release, is nonexistent.
This is accurate. MSE, Norton, and Symantec all rely very heavily on a file's overall reported reputation, so when a new program from a largely unknown developer first launches there's zero reputation at all to work with so some programs automatically assume the file is a threat and treat it as such, while others just very carefully scan it before letting it do anything.
Quote from: spinz on November 02, 2012, 11:31:23 PM
01:14:07 AM)
eureeka!! somebody who still has the problem try this: in the windows search bar type "uac" then click on the user account control. Turn it all the way down. (turn it back up again later!)
It specifically says that programs that are not certified with windows can conflict with the uac. so try turning it off :)
im posting my revelation here too in case it helps someone. i think this is at least very close to the problem.
Just wanted to comment on the missing space on your drives. I am not sure of this as I do not use that windirstat, but I do use treesize and have tried to figure out missing space on many systems at work. What it usually ends up being are hidden system files, namely page.sys and hiberfil.sys. Even if you think you have the page file and hibernation turned off, you might want to take a look for those two files. If they exist they are in the root of C.
To get rid of the page file then you need to change the settings for it. Now to get rid of the hibernation file it is not good enough to just turn hibernation off. You have to open up a command prompt (run as admin) and in there type this:
powercfg -h off
That will turn off hibernation and get rid of any hiberfil.sys file that may be there taking up space.
Just a thought anyways. Not sure if it will help but it is something to look out for.
Edit: Just to add to this I ran a scan on my backer exe that I just downloaded and during its scan it certainly caused hard drive space to get used up and yes the scan took a little longer to complete than it should have but it did complete. And once it had completed all the space it had used was returned. So with that knowledge I would say another source of the missing drive space would be from security essentials not killing the temp file or log file that it created while trying to scan the file. Suggest maybe using something like ccleaner to help get rid of any temp files and such.
page.sys and hiberfil.sys are accounted for in the root of the C:\ drive in all my screenshots (about 6 GB of "Files").
The issue was that since the system froze during the scan, all that temporary space was not accounted for (and located in what chkdsk and other diagnostics pointed to as bad sectors).
I'm trying to see if I can get those files to show up and then remove them, since they were corrupted during the download.
In another thread we've basically decided that to avoid the issue, one should turn off UAC and real-time AV protection before downloading and installing. After the game is installed, AV protection can be turned back on. I installed from a USB drive, so I never copied the installer to my actual HDD.
I can't speak for the devs and testers, but if there's a chance maybe this can be fixed for future releases. But at least we have something of a workaround.
Yeah I will be looking into seeing what can be done for whitelisting as much as possible in the future. There's a few things I'd note here that do make that a bit of a pain for little indies like us:
1. There's a bunch of different antivirus software programs out there and they all have a different set of hoops to jump through, and a wide variety of timeframes for getting whitelisted. Some cost a nice little chunk of change, and some can take weeks to get approved.
2. Pretty much every distributor uses their own installation file, meaning we'd have multiple files to whitelist. We're already being distributed through three sites that all would need their own files checked and verified. Every distributor that gets added makes for another file to get checked.
3. Even when you have been whitelisted, some programs will still whine about your installer and cause headaches, so even going to the above effort doesn't work in all cases.
4. When you're running on a bare-bones budget and insane deadlines, it's pretty tough to tack a couple of extra weeks onto your schedule for whitelisting. This is a lot easier for mega-AAA studios that can "go gold" on a project and then spend a couple of months on additional testing, ratings, whitelisting files, etc.
Now none of this is meant to say that we're not interested in simplifying this process as much as we can. I'll be the first to say it drives me up the wall when I have trouble installing or playing something I bought. Just keep in mind that this is our first commercial product and we're learning a few things from this release that work a bit differently than dropping a free game onto the market did. We appreciate the feedback, we appreciate the support, we appreciate your patience while we resolve unexpected kinks, and we REALLY appreciate our fans.
Quote from: greenisles on November 07, 2012, 08:03:27 PM
I still cannot play this game.
I just want to know, is Phoenix Online looking into fixing this issue, or not?
I understand that the majority of gamers aren't running into this rather serious problem, so please don't bother mentioning that. You've told us already, many times now actually. Besides, it's irrelevant, because the fact still remains that there ARE customers/supporters right here who can't play a product they gave their hard-earned cash for. And just so you know, I'm not rich, far from it. I'm a medical student with over $100,000 in student debt, no exaggeration. Still, I donated $60.00 to your Kickstarter campaign. So throwing your hands up and saying, "Sorry, others don't have any problem," and pointing the finger at our computers or our antivirus software (used by millions, btw) is quite frankly, rather disrespectful.
Honestly, I believe the way this situation was handled, specifically the responses from some of your team members, was rude and unprofessional. If Phoenix Online is aspring to be like Sierra (or any other computer gaming company for that matter), you really have some work to do in the whole customer support/relations department.
I don't mean any disrespect. But I feel I have a right to express my opinions, however strong they may be. If you read my original posts in this topic up until now, I think you'll see that I was courteous and kind during the whole process. I wanted to work with you to figure out the problem. Instead, I was forced to spend two days getting my system back to normal, and came to this forum not to find support but instead be told, "It's not us, it's you." Now I ask myself why I even bothered sharing my problems in the first place.
At this point I hope you can see why I'm frustrated and angry... but most of all I'm disappointed. Disappointed in myself for supporting a project and team I couldn't quite rely on.
I haven't seen any updates from you in a few days so I'm actually not sure exactly what issue you're still running into. If you'd like to toss an email to support@postudios dot com and let us know where you're currently getting stuck with downloading or installing we can look at the issue from there. So far we've been able to get everybody else who's reported an issue up and running so we'd definitely like to help you as well.
Quote from: greenisles on November 07, 2012, 08:26:29 PM
My issue is the same as it's always been. I can't download the file without my system going into crazy mode. The file stops downloading at 99%, yet when I hit cancel it remains on my desktop and my system resources/SSD get hung up on *something.* Please see my original posts, as I don't think it makes sense to copy and paste what I've already said.
(Posted on: November 07, 2012, 11:24:37 PM)
inm8#2, did you get the file working? Can you let me know what you did, or refer me to the right spot?
inm8 posted a workaround a few posts up, linked here:
http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=12498.msg345292#msg345292
Turned off UAC and real-time AV protection temporarily while installing the game, granted most people haven't had to do that, but unfortunately there's no 100% foolproof method for making sure your file waltzes easily past any antivirus system.
If I'm going to try this I'll have to do so on my old laptop... can't afford to lose two days of work again. PMed inm8#2 to get more info.
Btw, does anyone know Cesar's e-mail or contact info? Or the best way to reach him.
EDIT: Found it.
One thing I would add is that for indie bundles like Humble Indie Bundle, Indie Royale, etc., the developers are required to provide DRM-free installer files (with few exceptions for Steam-only games).
I haven't had any anti-virus or other issue with those many different game installer files (in total I've downloaded at least 50 of them). So, while I don't think certification/white-listing is "easy", it's something that various other indie studios, big and small, have been able to achieve.
If you guys want to make this process smoother for episode 2 and beyond, I'd recommend getting info (OS, anti-virus software, user account control settings, etc.) from the backers who downloaded the file via FTP. If you can't replicate the issue, collecting this data would strongly help to identify what components of the installer's packaging/signature/other caused our AV and OS to freeze, as well as what configuration of OS/AV/UAC/etc. was most commonly or distinctly causing the problem.
Without a picture like this, I imagine it would be extremely challenging to identify and implement a specific solution.
I just feel awful reading this.
I'm very sorry to hear that these problems are persisting. There are some more advanced potential fixes but those will be discussed with you over email. As for freaking out at 99% downloaded, I have seen that with large files downloaded with Kaspersky, but it usually pops up something saying that it's scanning the downloaded file. I haven't used Norton in ages because it's too unreliable.
Edit: Removed sensitive information.
Greenisles, I've asked in this thread several times, for people having issues to please email us at support@postudios.com so that we can resolve the issue one on one. I get that email and we try our best to take care of actions such as what Aaron is saying. But we request that the conversation is kept private so that we can go lengths to keep you happy as to give you access to things we can't do publicly.
So, please, if you are still having issues, do email us. I did read that you were going to email me, and I was expecting your email.
Thank you, and again, sorry for the inconveniences.
I would like to add that at no point in this thread have any of the staff been anything but polite. Yes, there were a few misunderstandings, but everyone is genuinely trying to be helpful. Saying that we can't reproduce the problem isn't the same as saying it didn't happen. I really hope you are able to resolve this.
One thing I should add is that when I installed the game, I did so from a USB stick. That is, I downloaded the installer file to a USB from another PC. I was extremely apprehensive to try the download on my laptop again after I had partially recovered from the issues I've described. However, I had the same hang up and freezing issues on two different W7 PCs. One of them had MSE, the other had Norton. I'm not 100% sure but I think eventually I disabled MSE on the one system it was running, and the download finally completed.
Like I said above, I think it would be useful to see what specific aspect of the installer is causing these issues. I've downloaded self-created zip files with 2-3 GB of images and data (work-related) in the past couple days with zero issues in MSE scanning and approving the file. Then again those don't include .exe files or other file types that would be of more concern. But my point is that it's not the size of the file, or any of our OS/AV settings. It's either the installer contents, how they're packaged, or some other kind of digital signature.
The impasse in this thread is that nobody's suggesting the installer actually has a virus. It's merely being pointed out that there is
something that multiple anti-virus programs (and Windows 7 UAC) do not like. But again, the fundamental issue here has been communication. From my end, after going through a lot of effort to explain the problem I was having, it felt like the issue was being dismissed or marginalized (not that I thought these were actually malicious intentions). And if you guys really weren't sure how to approach this, it would have been okay to say that. But comments such as the following are where I think the communication broke down:
Quote from: wilco64256 on October 30, 2012, 12:43:44 PMThe file itself is definitely fine - we have a number of backers who have downloaded and run it without any problems at all.
Quote from: Cez on October 30, 2012, 02:29:40 PM
Please continue to update us so that we can figure out what the problem is, but it definitely has to do with something in your computer not liking the files, otherwise it would happen on every computer.
Quote from: wilco64256 on October 31, 2012, 02:35:35 PM
We sent this installer to over 600 people and have only had three people come back with this issue.
While these statements are technically true, they didn't help to alleviate the installer issue. They felt extremely defensive and made the customer feel ignored and stupid for bringing the issue up at all. While this might not have been the intent, it's the face value of the words and the impression they left that mattered most. Just because not every person has a specific problem does it mean that this problem should be so quickly blamed on the customer. These responses were really, really awful. They basically suggested that for an issue to have merit, it needed to be experienced by everyone.
Then the discussion deteriorated further from there, with a great deal of irony in the following post that is very telling.
Quote from: Cez on October 31, 2012, 04:34:17 PM
Again, we apologize for the inconveniences, we are not dismissing the problem.
...
Our IT person mentioned this to us today regarding differences in hard drive space, because we sent him the picture you had posted here.
(info about how HDD space is calculated cut out to save space)
Here it says the problem isn't being dismissed, yet in the next paragraph that's exactly what happened again, with the discussion subsequently deflected to things like GB vs. GiB. This appeared to be an attempt to sweep the issue under the rug or rationalize the issues faced with downloading the installer. These responses neglected and ignored
all the information and details that preceded it about the system freezing, watching HDD space drop in real time, etc. It simply didn't apply to the root issue at hand and felt like a huge slap in the face.
Based on what was written in some of these posts, I didn't feel like I was being taken seriously. Some statements came across rather coldly and harshly, like cookie-cutter PR statements one might get from a very large company.
I sympathize that when you hear about a problem others are facing, it's frustrating to not be able to fix it for them. I'm someone who tries to give the benefit of the doubt in these situations. However, trying to be as objective as possible, the communication here was really poor and didn't show a level of interest/concern in the customer's problems one would expect. I previously discussed this here. (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=12498.msg344798#msg344798)
I'm writing this not to cause any bad feelings or exacerbate the problem. But I think we're starting to go in circles, and while I understand why greenisles is frustrated, after experiencing my own frustration with the situation I don't want to see anybody walk away upset. I'm just trying to illuminate where greenisles is coming from, since it seems there's still a misunderstanding of the reasons for his frustration. I hope it's clear I'm writing this to try and be helpful and supportive, not vindictive or vengeful.
In this day and age it seems like half of the stuff I read on large gaming forums is complaints about customer service from places like Steam or Origin. Point is, customer support is a very important matter, and when not handled well it can really alienate the customer. I've been trying to show where improvements in communication could be made, because many posts showed a lack of real concern and again felt defensive/dismissive, seemingly placing priority on saying "It's you, not us."
Nobody wants to experience that feeling from customer support. Ever.
Like greenisles said, if the customers here didn't care they wouldn't take all the time to continue posting. Most would give up and lose patience. It's not, and never was, an issue of simply politeness. It relates to how the customer's concerns were addressed, and how the same dynamic kept arising despite the efforts to point out these communication issues. Once more this is intended for clarity and to help you as feedback.
Quote from: inm8#2 on November 08, 2012, 03:12:24 PM
One thing I should add is that when I installed the game, I did so from a USB stick. That is, I downloaded the installer file to a USB from another PC. I was extremely apprehensive to try the download on my laptop again after I had partially recovered from the issues I've described. However, I had the same hang up and freezing issues on two different W7 PCs. One of them had MSE, the other had Norton. I'm not 100% sure but I think eventually I disabled MSE on the one system it was running, and the download finally completed.
Like I said above, I think it would be useful to see what specific aspect of the installer is causing these issues. I've downloaded self-created zip files with 2-3 GB of images and data (work-related) in the past couple days with zero issues in MSE scanning and approving the file. Then again those don't include .exe files or other file types that would be of more concern. But my point is that it's not the size of the file, or any of our OS/AV settings. It's either the installer contents, how they're packaged, or some other kind of digital signature.
The impasse in this thread is that nobody's suggesting the installer actually has a virus. It's merely being pointed out that there is something that multiple anti-virus programs (and Windows 7 UAC) do not like.
We've spent pretty much our entire day trying to figure out exactly that. Really the installer itself is not at all fancy, it's just a mildly glorified self-extracting executable that presents an EULA and gives the user options for the installation directory and shortcuts. I created our installers using Inno Setup which presents the entire script for review before compiling it, and I've reviewed that numerous times and can't find anything that would be problematic there.
I did find some mentions of anti-virus software getting annoyed at the uninstall file that comes with installers packaged by Inno Setup as it just gets a generic name of "unins000.exe" so it may very well be that files by that specific name have been flagged in the past as malicious and it's getting caught there as a result. I'll see what can be done to change the name of that file and see if that makes any difference. Typically though files will be better received automatically after a few weeks as various anti-virus programs continue auto-updating their libraries and it hasn't been reported directly as malicious.
Again I really can't apologize enough if I came across poorly. I've put a tremendous amount of research into trying to figure this out and see what we can really do from our end to fix it. It's come to my attention that some people thought that me suggesting disabling antivirus was a lazy or rude suggestion, I am definitely sorry if that was the impression I gave. I've heard and seen that suggested in many places and thought it was a fairly widely known concept. It seems that was a bad assumption on my part and I'll try to be a bit more clear about those types of suggestions in the future.
inm8#2, when I mentioned GB vs GiB, I was using it to say that wasn't your issue. It's really hard to write a response that won't be misinterpreted. :-\
I was referring to the general discussion, not to your specific post. Sent you a PM to clarify!