Young Adult Fiction is notably kind of huge these days, moreso if it's got a paranormal or dystopian future bent to it--from Twilight to The Hunger Games to Harry Potter to the upcoming movies for the Immortal Instruments series and Divergent, to the enormous section for such books at Barnes & Noble, to the Vampire Diaries and other such TV shows, it's all over the place.
And while there's plenty to mock in these stories, there is something obviously very compelling about them as well. So, what do you actually like about Young Adult Fiction (or YAF for short)?
I'll also try and formulate my own answer to this question, since I read a lot of YAF, but I'd like to hear from others, too!
Isn't the novel you're working on YAF? Or am I remembering that wrong?
As for what I like about it, I like interesting, well-written stories regardless of the target age group.
But I must know! Who will Bella choose? The Dead guy or animal guy! I must know! And I must see Jacob without his shirt!
Snabbott: You are correct, it is :)
Stika: LOL, but rather the opposite of the kind of answer I was looking for :P
It was the best I could do, I don't think I've read YAF, at least not in a long while
I still read YAF! :D It's nice to have a relatively quick read now and then; some adult novels are way too lengthy.
I usually read books just because it sounds interesting to me, never mind that if I'm in the target demographic or not. I love Harry Potter and the Hunger Games. The stories appealed to me in different ways and Potter has been with me for over 11 years. (although at first, I bought into the notion that they were 'just kid's books'. The first four were out at that time. Glad I got that stick out :P)
I love the Potter books because the questions JKR poses. Yes, the magic is fun and cool. But it also shows how one's upbringing does (or doesn't) define identity, examines prejudice in many different ways, points out corruption in government, and how the human race can still bond together in times of tragedy. Above all, I like how it advocates for different kinds of love: familial and friendship for example. The stereotype of young adult fiction is Twilight (oh, you don't want to get me started on how much I hate that series. Anyway.) but now books are breaking out of that mold and making people examine how we live our lives. And I think that's important: to read work that challenges you.
Hunger Games was a great story as well. I liked how Suzanne Collins pokes fun at our culture. In many ways, pop culture is the Capitol. We care about only the furious happenings of bimbos who are famous for being famous, who's wearing, what and we exploit people's lives on reality television for our own entertainment. The Capitol shows how government can abuse power and ruin people (Finnick, Peeta and Katniss for instance.) Actually, that's the whole point of the books: how much power can a government have? And the opposing side might not have all the answers, either. President Coin in Mockingjay was just as bad, if not worse than Snow. I didn't see the ending coming. And yet all the movie industry seems to care about is Katniss going to pair off with Gale or Peeta. Which proves Collins's point: we are the Capitol right now.
man, it's been way too long since I've read a book from start to finish.
Any good sci-fi novels out there?
I think as long as the story is good, who cares what age group it was marketed for? I have read all the Harry Potter books, The Chronicles of Narnia, as well as some one off books like Beauty (a nice retelling of Beauty & the Beast).
I have heard some great things about Hunger Games so I would like to try to read that series someday.
I read a couple of the Redwall books and while I liked Redwall and Mattimeo, I read a couple of others in the series and found the plots were pretty much the same.
As for Twilight - I have no interest in that series.
Admittedly I've never read the Harry Potter books, I've only seen the first two or three movies, I remember thinking that the movies had a nice build up, but the pay off was always pretty disappointing.
Am I the only one in this boat? :P
I can't really say much. I've only read the first five or so chapters of the first book. I enjoyed it though!
Particularly with the first two movies, the pay-off is better in the books than in the movies. The story builds better, whereas the movies are done in a very straightforward manner.
I really enjoyed HP, both the books and movies. JK Rowling did some amazing world-building!
The book is ALWAYS better than the movie. (Ok, I'm sure there are some exceptions to that, but I can't think of any.) I've read all of the books but only seen the first two or three movies. The books are well worth reading!
ah alright, so the books are better and the general consesus is that the payoff in the movies is a bit meh :P
I mean, overall they did a great job adapting HP to the movies. Much more well-done than book-to-movie adaptations often end up being. There are things I really wish they hadn't cut, though.
Some book-to-movie adaptations are definitely better than others. LOTR is probably the best adaptation I've seen, and even that left a lot out.
Actually, now that I think about it, The Princess Bride may be the best adaptation I've seen. The book and the movie are both amazing! :D
and then some book to movie adaptations turn out like Frank Herbert's Dune... I love the book, but that movie... *sighs*
I think the 5th Harry Potter movie really suffers from having to have scenes cut from it. I was like, 'Okay if you didn't read the book, you'd be lost.' But...the 5th book is also my least favorite of the series too.
It really is something to read them and get an idea of the world being created. It is pretty creative and the writer definitely has a set of rules for magic. Too often magic is just 'oh well, we can do anything with it.'
Magic... that's something I tend to over-analyze, particularly when there are well-defined rules. For example, how do magic words work? The only semi-reasonable explanation I have seen is that some spirit or something responds to them. ???
They touch on that in the Dresden Files at some point, because different people use different words for the same kinds of spells. The explanation there is, in general, that magic is fueled by belief--the symbols and words mean nothing unless you believe they mean something. So the protagonist, Harry Dresden, uses Latin (or Latin-like) words for his spells, whereas a Hispanic wizard we meet later on uses Spanish words. Harry uses a staff and a rod for channeling some of his magic, whereas another female wizard uses jewelry to store some spells.
So the words work, in essence, because the person using them believes that they will work; same with items of power. (When vampires show up, it's not necessarily a cross that will repeal them, if the wielder doesn't believe in the holy power of it; likewise, other items they DO imbue with that kind of power will work, regardless of what they are.)
See, that makes sense. Actually, there's something kind of like that in HP - the idea that the killing curse doesn't work unless you really mean it. I'm guessing that's true in general.
Quote from: KatieHal on May 03, 2013, 12:09:59 PMSo the protagonist, Harry Dresden, uses Latin (or Latin-like) words for his spells, whereas a Hispanic wizard we meet later on uses Spanish words.
Because Spanish isn't Latin-based? :P Does Harry Dresden speak English most of the time? If so, this is a deeply flawed explanation. :P
:P Specifically Latin words, whereas the other wizard is using specifically Spanish words.
Though even Harry admits his system is far from 'perfect' and consistent.
Nah, it'd be much cooler if the spells were said in European Portuguese 8)
((what? I can dream, can't I?))
Quote from: snabbott on May 03, 2013, 01:37:21 PM
See, that makes sense. Actually, there's something kind of like that in HP - the idea that the killing curse doesn't work unless you really mean it. I'm guessing that's true in general.
Harry tried to use the Cruciatus curse on Bellatrix in book 5 and it doesn't really work on her. She told him he had to mean it and in that moment, he was full of grief from the previous incident that had just happened.
I think that was one of the things that made me give up on my Fantasy novel: my Magic system didn't make much sense, or rather, it was too simple and there was hardly any "cost" to use it properly.
How did it work? Well, there is all sorts of Elemental Magic in the land of Corim, such as Fire, Ice, Lightning, Nature, Healing and so on; and a Mage can learn one type or multiple ones if they wish (although, I'd imagine that learning multiple ones would take longer) When a Mage is casting a spell, they simply have to focus on whatever task they have (Mages in training are taught to close their eyes to help them with this, while an advanced Mage doesn't have to), their eyes glow and they see their target in whatever color that Magic is associated with while everything else around them (from their POV, not literally) is in black and white. Once they are focused, they simply just thrust their hand/s forward and ALAKAZAM!
And seeing as you have to keep calm and focus to perform Magic, there really isn't such a thing as insane Mages in Corim as their spells with just backfire.
Ahh--yeah, see I'd say add something that lets bad guys use it. OR, that could be a whole plot in and of itself--somehow there ARE evil, insane mages suddenly and your protags are trying to find out why and how.
Alternately: evil doesn't necessarily mean insane. A person can do horrible things and be perfectly sane about it--what's he or she is doing can make perfect logical moral sense to them.
Any time you give a character powers or some kind, basically, you do need to find a drawback to it. Even if it's one that isn't going to be obvious--say, using magic makes them immortal. Sure, seems great, until you realize they suddenly don't age though their friends and family do. Or they DO still age, and have to deal with that while never actually dying. They can be long-term effects, but still something that's hard to wrap one's head around in the short-term. If they're immortal, are they still human? How else will this magic change them? And will they even notice, or is that the scary part, that they won't notice?
Well, people in Corim are a LOT longer lived than in our world- I mean, remember all those people in the Bible who lived to be over 100? The humans in my story can live to be over one hundred (provided of course, they don't die from injuries or disease, which is bound to happen anyway being mortal) and still be kickin'! They can't live to be, say, 1000 but they can live at least 150 or so.
Technically, there is a "cost" to using Magic in Corim, but it's not very interesting: whenever you work out or go for a run, you have a physical limit that lets you keep going until you can't take it anymore and collapse from exhaustion. Obviously, that's not a good thing to do. Same goes for Magic, except instead of physical tiredness, it's mental tiredness. If you overdo your Magic, you'd eventually become so mentally tired that you can hardly think.
As for that whole "Magic can be used for evil" thing? Well, my villain actually IS/WAS a powerful Mage anyway, so I knew that already.
Want me to recount what I'd thought of until my computer lost its data on it?
Still no Portuguese magic incantations? *mutters to himself*
GR: Yeah, sure. In general, though, yeah--if you think your magic system is lacking something and not interesting, chances are no one else will either. So throw something new in there to mix it up. Magic wearing you out eventually is a common drawback I've seen in other fiction. It helps to make battles interesting--who's going to wear out first, etc.
Depending on what kind of world Corim is, the other drawbacks could just be the kind of trouble people who use magic get into. Especially if it's something they need to keep a secret, though I get the impression it's not.
I don't like Young Adult Fiction. :P At all. :P It's insipid and doesn't often deal with issues I care about. :P I especially hate it when adults try to write young adult fiction that wasn't inspired by their own adolescence because those characters are never relatable and insanely unrealistic. :P John Greene can't write polymaths or cancer kids or libidinous teenagers. :P
What about Sci-fi, Deloria? :)
I've never really read any Sci-fi, though I suspect that would be more up my alley. What bothers me in YAF is the lack of realism in the interpersonal relationships and the dialogue of the protagonist and the characters surrounding him/her. :P I'd be fine with an alternate universe. :P
Ah that makes sense. Me I love Sci-fi in general, though I also like police novels, I've ready all of the Sherlock Holmes books ever published... not that it's a hard thing to do as they're not very big or that complex compared to what we have today :P
I want season 3 of Sherlock! :P
I've actually only seen an episode or two of the show it was pretty good
Quote from: Deloria on May 08, 2013, 11:04:00 AM
I don't like Young Adult Fiction. :P At all. :P It's insipid and doesn't often deal with issues I care about. :P
In fairness, I would say that some of it does indeed deal with issues you care about; it just doesn't do it well. ;P
Quote from: Deloria on May 08, 2013, 11:04:00 AM
I especially hate it when adults try to write young adult fiction that wasn't inspired by their own adolescence because those characters are never relatable and insanely unrealistic. :P John Greene can't write polymaths or cancer kids or libidinous teenagers. :P
XD So, what you're saying is... you only liked
Looking for Alaska? (Because that's the one book based on his own adolescence... I mean, they all are of course in part based in his own experiences, but that one admits the heavy involvement of his adolescence in its setting and characters.)
Also, Alaska and Margo seem to be the same character when you strip away the packaging... that is, they seem to be the same underlying person simply responding to the family and background handed to them in their respective books. Colin is the rare super-boy who becomes interested in the otherwise "plain" girl (role reversal for Green). And in TFioS, if we were trying to follow the bouncing Sue/Stu trope through Green's work, we'd have to conclude that in the TFioS universe, cancer gives you enlightened entitlement to understanding the vastness of the universe, the meaninglessness of life, and the inevitability of oblivion, and then you die.
I saw we should turn this into an Edward vs. Jacob debate!
I vote team Jacob!
I'll stick with Team Charlie, thank you.
Start your own thread for that! :P
Before we get back on topic, I just want to say: Team Tyler's Van. It came so close to smashing Bella...
Anyway, I grew up on Young Adult fiction, and although I enjoyed it, I'll be the first to admit that a whole lot of it is cliched schlock. *cough Eragon cough* Of course, there are worse things young adults could be reading...50 Shades of Grey, for example.
I also read stuff that wasn't exactly Young Adult fiction, including Bram Stoker's Dracula, Silence of the Lambs, 1984, and Edgar Allen Poe's The Pit and the Pendulum. None of those were required reading for school, I just read them for fun.
I'm pretty sure 50 Shades isn't YA!
Oh Eragon. The RiffTrax for that movie is great. I remember when I read that book, I thought, "Hey I can write as well as this guy." Then a few chapters later, "Actually, no, I can write better than this guy!"
I like Eragon a lot actually. *ducks tomato* Hey, he was writing far better than I was at his age! I know that it's rife with cliches, but I frankly do not care! I wanted a good Fantasy Adventure, and I got it!
There is worse out there than Eragon. As long as you acknowledge it's rife with cliches and borrowed story lines from other (better) stories! He packaged it up pretty well, true. The books did well for a reason.
The movie is a hot bloody mess however!
Aye, so I have heard.
The Last Airbender's worse though.
there's worse, we had a book published here by 16 year old that ripps off Warcraft, Castlevania, Mortal Kombat all sprinkled with bits of anime.
It's the epitomy of "so bad it's good" all unintentional
And what book would that be, Stika?
it was only launched here in Portugal so... *puts on hipsters glasses* It's too obscure for you 8)
A translation of the book's name would be "Son of Odin" and the only reason the book got published was because mommy and daddy got connections
Oh god, The Last Airbender is SO BAD. Such a shame, because the animated series is so awesome.
Y'know, all that talk about magic systems made me want to start writing that story again. Although, come to think of it, does Magic in KQ have a 'cost'?
Quote from: KatieHal on May 11, 2013, 08:10:16 PM
Oh god, The Last Airbender is SO BAD. Such a shame, because the animated series is so awesome.
Aye, the animated series is awesome. Was a bit disappointed with Korra though
GR: Hm. KQ doesn't have a very fleshed out magic system so not exactly, but most of the people using it are either bad guys or good guys you don't play. The main characters rarely get to use magic.
When they do, however, the magic is reliant on other sources. Alexander needs to put together recipes and use magic words from a book for the spells he uses, and that's a sort of "cost'--he can use magic but he can't cast it quickly or without help. Likewise when Graham uses the wand in KQ5, he has to charge the wand first, and he's still reliant on it to do anything even after that.
So neither of them gets to cast spells quickly or with their own power.
(We had plans for both Alex & Rosella to get magical abilities in the later chapters of the original crazy long script for TSL, actually. Those ideas may get recycled into something else at some point though. )
Wait, so they DON'T have magical abilities in TSL?!
None the player directly controls at least. It's implied they do, but what with being unconscious, they're not exactly doing much :)
Quote from: KatieHal on May 11, 2013, 04:27:34 PM
I'm pretty sure 50 Shades isn't YA!
It's not, but you wouldn't know it by how many young adults read it. People are stupid.
Quote from: KatieHal on May 12, 2013, 02:25:29 PM
None the player directly controls at least. It's implied they do, but what with being unconscious, they're not exactly doing much :)
Ohhh! And here I was, worried that Rosella was wrong!
...Wait, me or the character? XD
The character. Which reminds me, I still need to finish watching your TSL LP! I guess I wasn't following yours as closely, as I got introduced to both you and Toegoff very close together and I watched his LP of it first and thusly no longer was going through it blind unlike you were.
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on May 11, 2013, 08:35:11 PM
Y'know, all that talk about magic systems made me want to start writing that story again. Although, come to think of it, does Magic in KQ have a 'cost'?
Why of course. :P If you miss a single comma, the spell backfires horribly.
Odd how they can pick that sort of thing up when you're meant to be saying it. ::)
And are the physical actions of molding and patting really that different? :P
Quote from: 929572 on May 12, 2013, 03:00:37 PM
Quote from: KatieHal on May 11, 2013, 04:27:34 PM
I'm pretty sure 50 Shades isn't YA!
It's not, but you wouldn't know it by how many young adults read it. People are stupid.
Just because they shouldn't read it doesn't mean it's not targeted at them. It is Twilight fanfiction. :P
Well yeah, the magic knows, man. It knows.
Also, given the subject matter of 50 Shades, I'm pretty sure it's not aimed at the YA demographic. It's rather specifically fanfic with more, ahem, adult subject matter than the source material.
Which is not to say that YA can't have sex in it. Some do, and cover it very well for the target audience. But 50 Shades is pretty explicit in its treatment of sex.
(For the record, no, I haven't read the whole of any 50 Shades novels, but I have read excerpts.)
I've tried listening to manwithoutabody's Dramatic Reading of the original fanfic (not the version that was published as an actual book), and...
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m85e5zs7M81rs9g79o1_500.jpg)
Sorry, I had to share that.
I looked on Amazon.com for reviews of the first 50 Shades book, and by far the best one is the first review at the top of the page here:
http://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Shades-Grey-Book-Trilogy/product-reviews/0345803485/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0 (http://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Shades-Grey-Book-Trilogy/product-reviews/0345803485/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0)
If you don't like to read, here are some of the highlights from the review:
"The pseudonymous British author sets the action (such as it is) in Washington State... for no reason than that her knowledge of America apparently consists of what she read in "Twilight"... but the entire first-person narrative is filled with Britishisms. How many American college students do you know who talk about "prams," "ringing" someone on the phone, or choosing a "smart rucksack" to take "on holiday"?
According to my Kindle search function, characters roll their eyes 41 times, Ana bites her lip 35 times, Christian's lips "quirk up" 16 times, Christian "cocks his head to one side" 17 times, characters "purse" their lips 15 times, and characters raise their eyebrows a whopping 50 times. Add to that 80 references to Ana's anthropomorphic "subconscious" (which also rolls its eyes and purses its lips, by the way), 58 references to Ana's "inner goddess," and 92 repetitions of Ana saying some form of "oh crap" (which, depending on the severity of the circumstances, can be intensified to "holy crap," "double crap," or the ultimate "triple crap").
I have discovered that Ana says "Jeez" 81 times and "oh my" 72 times. She "blushes" or "flushes" 125 times, including 13 that are "scarlet," 6 that are "crimson," and one that is "stars and stripes red." (I can't even imagine.) Ana "peeks up" at Christian 13 times, and there are 9 references to Christian's "hooded eyes," 7 to his "long index finger," and 25 to how "hot" he is (including four recurrences of the epic declarative sentence "He's so freaking hot."). Christian's "mouth presses into a hard line" 10 times. Characters "murmur" 199 times, "mutter" 49 times, and "whisper" 195 times (doesn't anyone just talk?), "clamber" on/in/out of things 21 times, and "smirk" 34 times. Christian and Ana also "gasp" 46 times and experience 18 "breath hitches," suggesting a need for prompt intervention by paramedics. Finally, in a remarkable bit of symmetry, our hero and heroine exchange 124 "grins" and 124 "frowns"... which, by the way, seems an awful lot of frowning for a woman who experiences "intense," "body-shattering," "delicious," "violent," "all-consuming," "turbulent," "agonizing" and "exhausting" orgasms on just about every page."
She sums everything up with the sentence: "Just stay away from this triple crap."
Well...is there anything else that needs to be said about this book?
There may not be anything else to say about the book, but that particular poster will scar me for years to come.
*imagines Nick Cage doing some kinky S&M stuff* :-X
Whatever you do, DO NOT Google Image search "Nicolas Cage Titanic."
*is waiting for reverse psychology to cause people to search for it anyway*
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-747diwe332s/TwLYnGQUy0I/AAAAAAAAP-s/YcnIJeZyQBg/s1600/batman+surprised+disgusted+horrified.jpg)
dear God!
...There is a book containing the phrase "He's so freaking hot." multiple times? And it got published?
Eh, on the bright side, it reminded me of this:
When I was younger I enjoyed reading Harry Potter and LoTR. Though I'm not sure if Lord of the Rings is Young Adult fiction...
It might be seen as Young Adult Fiction now (though I don't think many people think it is), but that might just have to do with how writing today has changed
I wasn't screaming "GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!" because it horrified me, but because it was so DULL!
Just to let you know.
And I don't really consider LoTR YA fiction, I consider it Fantasy Fiction for all ages!
LotR is definitely not YA. It's just straight up fantasy fiction.
The beginning of it can be kinda dull. I still hold that it picks up a LOT once they finally get to Bree. The Tom Bombadil stuff was meh.
well, I do think Frank Herbert's Dune is dangerously close to Young Adult Fiction, assuming it isn't already one.
I do like the book mind you and I don't think it was written for young adults, but yeah some things about it...
Oh I did like Ender's Game a lot. Although I highly disagree with Orson Scott Card's marriage viewpoints.
Ender's Game is a fantastic novel. It's truly a shame Card himself is kind of awful, as it turns out. :/
Quote from: KatieHal on May 23, 2013, 03:52:33 PM
Ender's Game is a fantastic novel. It's truly a shame Card himself is kind of awful, as it turns out. :/
It should be interesting how the movie turns out...