POStudios Forum

Phoenix Online Studios => The Silver Lining => General => Topic started by: daventry on October 24, 2014, 02:58:45 PM

Title: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: daventry on October 24, 2014, 02:58:45 PM
01. It is a known fact that TSL uses the Original KQ Games and Timeline, yet nothing is mentioned from the VGA Games for obvious reasons. Dont get me wrong i Love them to bits, but still i wished AGDI kept to the Originals. Why the Change and differences, heavily noticeable in KQ2VGA-KQ3VGA.

02. Why are there Two Versions of KQ3VGA by AGDI and Infamous Adventures

03. Is KQ3VGA by Infamous Adventures close to the Original, or should i keep the KQ3EGA Version Canon with TSL so to speak.

04. Could KQ1VGA follow the TSL Timeline, since the VGA Game from AGDI is like 99.99% the same as the EGA and SCI Version.

05. When KQ 2015 comes out, would TSL be in the Timeline of the KQ Series Franchise as KQ9, or is TSL just a Fan Game in their own way. Hence KQ 2015 could be KQ9
Original KQ1 - Possibly KQ1VGA aswell
Original KQ2
Original KQ3
KQ4
KQ5
KQ6
KQ7
MOE
TSL - Could be considered Fan Made or KQ9
KQ 2015 could be KQ9 or could be KQ10

06. What is the Backstory of TSL from the KQ Series and im not talking about TSL itself, im talking about Why is TSL made that left Questions unanswered in the KQ Series.
Why is Valanice a Black Cloak and a Druid, was it in the KQ Lore somewhere or did Cesar just decided to go into that direction with King Graham being a Descendant of the Silver Cloak aswell.

Was there a Story on the Black Cloak and the Silver Cloak, or did Cesar made this up, even though in the KQ Series, we just heard bits and pieces of them.

Roberta Williams herself stated once Years ago she knows Nothing about them, it was Jane Jenson that put them in there.

07. Is MOE considered Canaon in the KQ World, hence TSL mentions MOE and Connor, but many People believe its just a RPG Game with KQ slapped on it.

08. If TSL is a Fan Game and not mentioned in KQ 2015 would the Timeline be set after MOE in witch we can assume Gwendolyn is the Child of Alexander and Cassima in witch Rosella isent married yet to Edgar, thus hoping in KQ 2015 she will be Married.

09. I wonder why one Child is mentioned in KQ 2015 would that mean Alexander or Rosella doesent have a Child.

10. If in KQ 2015 they mentioned Rosella Married Edgar, then they would Rule Daventry as the New King and Queen with Connor being the General Knight of the Castle i assume.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on October 25, 2014, 06:37:46 AM
TSL is completely non-canon, I doubt the upcoming King's Quest game would consider its existence. At best we MIGHT see an easter egg, but even that is highly unlikely.

Also, I was under the impression the upcoming King's Quest was a reboot/ re-imagining? So it likely won't even take into account the other official Sierra games.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: daventry on October 25, 2014, 07:26:14 AM
That make sense and would you be so kind as to answer ALL my Questions please  :rofl:
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on October 25, 2014, 12:11:44 PM
Regarding the TSL-related questions, it's likely that Stika either doesn't know or can't say without spoiling episode 5.

Regarding the KQ reboot questions, again, nobody knows enough details to answer those questions yet.

As for the other questions, you've got a ton of them, and it would take time to answer them all. Be patient.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: JDHJANUS on October 27, 2014, 10:05:41 AM
I can answer some of these questions based on my research.

1. ADGI wanted to improve upon some of the plot inconsistencies in KQII-III. Although KQI was an obvious fetch quest, KQII's storyline was very sparse and there was a lot of things never explained, even in the background material. ADGI wanted to improve upon the storyline and help try to provide a more cohesive overall storyline of the series.

2. Blackthorne and Klytos (the heads of Infamous Adventures) stated that King's Quest III was one of their favorite King's Quest games, and so for the first game that they decided to remake, they thought that King's Quest III would be the best choice. The IA team was still fairly inexperienced, as KQIII was the first game that they remade. ADGI had also been planning on remaking KQIII and IV in order to bring the games' stories more in line with the story that they had set up with the KQII Remake. They ended up never starting development on a King's Quest IV remake, as they instead went commercial and formed Himalaya Studios.

3. KQIII by IA is closer to the original than the ADGI version; however, they did have added scenes, and a few new characters. You can see some of the stuff here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Quest_III:_To_Heir_Is_Human_(Infamous_Adventures)

4. The King's Quest I VGA remake is a literal point and click remake of the SCI-0 remake, with no real differences that I am aware of (besides the obvious gameplay/graphical updates).

5. Stika already said this, but TSL is a fan game, and as such, I'm pretty sure The Odd Gentlemen will probably not consider it canon. They may throw a random easter egg or something, but I wouldn't hold my breath.  From my understanding, they're only planning on keeping the original developed games canon.

6. I haven't played TSL yet; however, as you mentioned, The Black Cloak Society was something that Jane Jensen came up with, and while it is obviously canon, the only specific people in it are Manannan, Mordack, Shadrack, and Alhazred. Roberta has specifically said that she never intended Hagatha to be connected or related to any of the above. That is something the Peter Spear, author of the King's Quest Companion came up with. In fact, there's a lot of stuff that is "quasi-canon" based off of the Kings' Quest Companion books, such as Tamir and Llewdor sharing the same continent; Daventry and Serenia sharing the same continent, etc. While there's nothing in the games to contradict this, it is never explicitly stated either. To answer your spoiler question, there is nothing mentioned in the games about that character's connection to the organization that you stated. I will say that the "Silver Cloak Society" is not mentioned in any of the King's Quest games, to my knowledge.

7. Mask of Eternity is considered canon by Roberta herself. I'm betting that it will at least get a reference in the new King's Quest game, but I'm not sure how much it will be referenced. The game itself, while being an obvious departure from the original direction of the series, is still technically considered to be an adventure (albeit an action-adventure), and it definitely was the direction that Roberta felt the series should be going in that time. Not sure as to how much of canon it is considered by TSL, but since TSL is technically not considered canon, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of the series.

8. The game is set far into the future, old enough that Graham would have a granddaughter to be telling stories to, and who would be able to sit there and enjoy them. Neither King's Quest VII nor MOE have any specific dates associated with them, so it's difficult to place them in a coherent timeline. You could make the argument that they could even happen at the same  time, which would explain why you don't see Valanice and Rosella in Mask of Eternity, although this is pure conjecture. I'm guessing that the new KQ game will be set after both KQVII and MOE, though.

9. Perhaps that child is merely the oldest and the one who wants to hear Graham's stories. If Rosella did end up with Edgar, then she and he are probably off in Etheria anyways, and I'm not sure how well travel works between the two worlds. Maybe Gwendolyn is visiting Grandpa in Daventry because she's the oldest? Again, we won't know too much until we get closer to the release of the game.

10. This is a good question. Edgar is obvious Prince of Etheria, but at the same time, fairies in fiction can sometimes have much longer lifespans than normal humans, so it's possible that Oberon and Titania could live and rule over Etheria for many more years, thus freeing up Edgar and Rosella to rule Daventry. Again, the games themselves do not really give us any particular details about who will end up the ruler of Daventry. Perhaps a Knight like good Sir Graham back in the original King's Quest I will end up taking over? This may be something that is addressed in the new game.

Stika- you had mentioned that the new game is supposed to be a re-imaging/reboot? I wasn't aware of that. From my understanding and conversations with The Odd Gentlemen, I was under the impression that they were planning on keeping the lore of the original King's Quest games intact. I was under the impression that this is more like a revival (like the 2005 Doctor Who show).

Hope I addressed all of your questions. If I got any of my wires crossed and made a mistake, I apologize in advance.

Talk to you later!

JDHJANUS
Josh
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: daventry on October 27, 2014, 10:45:37 AM
Fantastic on answering the Questions, Thanks  :suffer:

01. I liked how AGDI Extended the Storyline with KQ2VGA-KQ3VGA but the only let down that made 0 sense was the Father, why could they not leave him out in the first place. That reminds me from what i saw in KQ2VGA, wish they added a Town for Daventry in their KQ1VGA like MOE did.

03. Im keeping All the Original KQ Games, except KQ1 in witch im sticking with the VGA Version from AGDI Thus im no longer interested in KQ2VGA-KQ3VGA I suppose i could keep the KQ3VGA from IA since its Close to the Original as can be with the Minor add on of Mordack though in witch the Spoiler Ending makes sense. What was KQ3 v3.0 gonna fix.

08. I think i read somewhere that KQ7 and MOE is infact within the Same Timeline. So by the time Rosella and Valanice comes back to Daventry, they would assume Nothing happened at all until Graham starts asking where they have been in witch they would know Nothing about the MOE.

10. I read the Story of Rosella from the KQ Omnipedia that Rosella and Edgar now Rules Daventry, so we might see King Edgar and Queen Rosella on the Throne in KQ 2015
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on October 27, 2014, 11:03:02 AM
Yeah, I really wish the Father had been killed off at the end of KQ2+, thus freeing up other bad guys to take over the Black Cloaks in his place. That's about my only complaint with the AGDI games, though. I actually think they're vastly superior to the originals, which I thought sucked pretty badly. The originals are completely unplayable by today's standards, while the remakes look better, sound better, play better, and have better stories. I know that if I ever write fanfiction about the first three games, I'm definitely going to follow the AGDI stories rather than the originals.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Jack Stryker on October 27, 2014, 12:15:56 PM
I don't know... I liked that in AGD's KQ3 remake, you got to see what the Father was searching for and why he wanted Graham's crown.  Plus, the look on his face when he found it smashed was priceless.  I wish we could see a continuation from that though, where he's ultimately defeated for good.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: GrahamRocks! on October 27, 2014, 04:27:01 PM
Um, daventry? I don't think KQ7 and MOE take place at the same time.

Know why? Because that would mean Connor's adventure was only 15 minutes long. That's how long Graham had been waiting for Valanice and Rosella to show up for lunch.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: daventry on October 27, 2014, 11:08:28 PM
If time is that fast in Eldritch, then technically Valanice and Rosella should be a little Older upon their return. If Rosella and Edgar Marries and live in Eldritch, then in one day Daventry time, Rosella would be an Old Lady or Dead of Old Age
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on October 28, 2014, 07:54:08 AM
I assume Mask of Eternity takes place after 7, though then again, I always felt the whole timeline and even the lore got kinda iffy after 6 :P
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: GrahamRocks! on October 28, 2014, 08:49:17 AM
............... *sighs in annoyance* KQ7 doesn't take place over years. This is not Narnia. A few hours or a day is not that big a gap.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on October 28, 2014, 09:06:01 AM
We also don't know how long most of the games take place in real time, either. KQ4 and KQ2+ for sure take place over a period of two days, thanks to the day/night cycle in them. It seems everything that's happened in TSL episodes 1-4 is only two days, as well. But we don't have any idea how long Graham was searching for the three lost treasures of Daventry in KQ1, or exactly what the real length of time is between Manannan's meals, given that he really shouldn't be hungry or sleeping or traveling all within a few minutes of each other as it appears in the game. And obviously, Alexander sailing from Llewdor to Daventry was much longer than 15 or so minutes. And even though MoE is the longest game in the series, for all we know, it took place over a couple hours.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: JDHJANUS on October 28, 2014, 02:57:01 PM
 
Um, daventry? I don't think KQ7 and MOE take place at the same time.

Know why? Because that would mean Connor's adventure was only 15 minutes long. That's how long Graham had been waiting for Valanice and Rosella to show up for lunch.

GrahamRocks, where does it say in the game that Graham was waiting for only 15 minutes? I don't remember him appearing in the game at all! There is a line of dialog by Graham that's in the resource files of the game, but it never made it into the game itself, which doesn't make it canon.

Just curious.

Talk to you later!

JDHJANUS
Josh
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: daventry on October 29, 2014, 01:17:31 AM
Apparently in the KQ Omnipedia it says that
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on October 29, 2014, 08:08:15 AM
Huh... does it cite any sources?
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: JDHJANUS on October 29, 2014, 08:13:51 AM
Ah. Apparently, the 15 minute thing is from the King's Quest Companion, which is a questionable source, for sure, as I mentioned earlier. :)

Taking the Companion out of the picture, you could theoretically presume that King's Quest VII and MOE happened concurrently, as there's nothing in the games to contradict this. Then again, MOE could be set a few years after KQVII as well. It's difficult to really say. I had always presumed that it was set after, and had never even considered the idea of them being set concurrently until a friend  of mine pointed out that they could have happened at the same time. Whatever the case, they're both clearly set after King's Quest VI, as all three characters have notably aged in their following appearances.

I know that The Odd Gentlemen founder Matt Korba owns and has read the 4th edition of the KQC, so I'm curious to see if anything from the book will make their way into the games (like how Jane Jensen borrowed the name Derek Karlevaegan for the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles...)

Talk to you later!

JDHJANUS
Josh
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on October 29, 2014, 08:43:57 AM
That's pretty interesting though. I like to think that the King's Quest lore is generally pretty malleable but it's still interesting to learn these tidbits from the companion books! :D
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Rock Knight on November 21, 2014, 03:48:59 PM
The "15 minutes late to lunch" line comes from KQVII itself. Graham was originally supposed to make a cameo appearance at the very end, and indeed, a sound file of Graham saying this line is buried within the game itself, and an actor is credited in-game for Graham's voice. It's not Josh Mandel, because he'd left Sierra by the time KQ7 was underway.

As for the Companion's status, Roberta gave it her blessing back in the day and said it was a necessary book, necessary to further understanding her games, and Jane Jensen as well as another Sierra employee helped contribute to it.

To further underscore it's nature as part of the official canon, the 'writer' of the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles is Derek, the writer of all the "Chronicles" in the Companion; note that the real-life writer of the book was none other than Jane Jensen herself; and also, in KQ6 itself, if you click the "Look" icon in Alhazred's chest, the narrator says he has a book called "The Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles." So, that book, and Derek, do exist and have been mentioned in official King's Quest games.

The novels, however, are basically "EU". They were neither not pre-approved by Roberta, and I believe Ken said at one point that she'd read them and wasn't a big fan of them.

Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on November 21, 2014, 05:23:31 PM
Kingdom of Sorrow has a chance of redeeming itself in Roberta's eyes if Infamous Quests finishes their game adaptation of it. King's Quest is first and foremost a game series, not a book series, so chances are KoS will fare better on the computer screen than on the page. That is, of course, provided the game actually gets released, and is good enough to recommend to Roberta, who will probably never bother to find it on her own.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: JDHJANUS on November 25, 2014, 11:02:30 AM
Blackthorne, one of the heads of Infamous Quests, told me that since IA has gone commercial, they are no longer working on any of the fan games, to include Kingdom of Sorrow. So, sadly, I don't expect to see that game ever come to fruition.

As far as Roberta's involvement in the Companion, I think that supplemental materials, such as the Companion, the Official Book of King's Quest, the King's Quest novels, etc., can definitely fall in the category of canon, but at the same time, if an official game (or an official source from the game development) contradicts them, I think that's perfectly fine.

For example, despite the Companion noting that Hagatha is the sister of Mordack and Manannan and part of the Black Cloak Society, Roberta herself noted that she never intended for Hagatha to have any connection to any of the other villains of the series. Similarly to how Spear also connected all of the Space Quest villains, even though the Two Guys have noted that Elmo Pug and Captain Quirk were never supposed to be tied to Vohaul.

Also, an interesting thing to point out - Roberta once said that Daventry was actually a real country here on earth, and that it existed hundreds of years ago and has since fallen into ruin. (I personally prefer the Companion's idea of Daventry withdrawing to another dimension, but if we're going with official RW canon, then technically Daventry is somewhere here on earth!)

The novels, on top of having several grammar and spelling errors, also have several conflicting information with the story canon. Graham, for example, having blond hair and a beard! And Rosella and Alexander being a few years apart as opposed to being twins are a couple of the inconsistencies I can think of off the top of my head.

So, in conclusion, I consider the strategy guides and novels to be supplemental material. I like the information in them, and I definitely consider them canon...unless the official games contradict them, in which case I think that the games take precedence over the guides. So, the KQVII and KQVIII thing about them happening at the same time - if that is mentioned in the new King's Quest game, I would be perfectly okay with that, as there's nothing in the games themselves to contradict that. That having been said, if the new game has something completely off, like Alexander being married to some other random woman with no explanation as to what happened to Cassima, I would definitely consider that to be a major problem.

Talk to you later!

JDHJANUS
Josh
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on November 25, 2014, 03:10:21 PM
That sucks about Kingdom of Sorrow...oh well.

"Roberta-canon" depends entirely on how seriously you take Roberta. I personally don't take her seriously at all, as she contributed nothing but bad ideas to the series during the latter half of its run. The only reason 6 was as good as it was had something to do with the fact that Jane Jensen was the one in charge of the product, not Roberta. And it was Roberta's idea to turn Mask of Eternity into an action/puzzle/platformer, which is as bad an idea as turning Doom into an RPG...which, incidentally, has already been done.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Neonivek on November 27, 2014, 12:42:26 AM
KQ7 takes place, to my knowledge like... over a day or week or something I cannot remember but the game actually does give you a time frame.

The Silver Lining considers Mask of Eternity Canon but MOSTLY doesn't dwell on it mostly because that game creates a LOT of plotholes ("Why hello alternate underworld... Are you going to say anything even in passing why I am here and not in the underworld we know of?")

Mind you The Silver Lining does EASE some of the plotholes by basically setting up that certain elements change depending on the location.

Also I wouldn't take ANYTHING Roberta says about Mask of Eternity as her honest opinion. She is just a team player. Either that or she is kind of mildly crazy (which frankly given her opinion on Phantasmagoria 2... maybe)

Quote
Taking the Companion out of the picture, you could theoretically presume that King's Quest VII and MOE happened concurrently, as there's nothing in the games to contradict this.

Except the... you know... whole Mask of Eternity thing happening and Eternia not being an entirely separate dimension.

It is pretty impossible for Mask of Eternity to happen concurrently with any game in the series because the destruction of the mask of Eternity is kind of... noticeable... and the game makes it quite clear that it isn't just Daventry that is in danger.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: daventry on March 09, 2015, 02:23:51 AM
Man i Hate Twitter, it totally Limits your Posts and i can Never get to the Main Discussion of a Certain Topic.

There are so many Reply or Retweet Buttons, in witch i still cant get to the Main Discussion Box where others have replied.

Just Wish Sierra and TheOddGentlemen gets a Forum Board soon.

Anyway, heres the New Gameplay Trailer for KQ2015

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyXzqcEWH1s
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on March 09, 2015, 04:47:22 AM
I'm a bit concerned about that other game they were advertising near the end. A game focusing on flatulence doesn't seem to make any...
(_)
( _)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
...scents.
YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on March 10, 2015, 10:17:19 AM
I can't believe I laughed at that pun xD
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: GrahamRocks! on March 10, 2015, 10:32:00 AM
I'll say it again like I said on FB.

Footage looks great! Game looks great! Looking forward to it, Matt Korba!

The reporters, though? Ugh... wasn't one of the first things we learned about this game was that Graham was telling stories to Gwendolyn, his granddaughter? How can you forget that, when it's been mentioned in every article?

Heck, watching that scene with the knights, I kinda wanted them to shut up for a bit and just show us the actual scene with the music and all that. I'm trying to enjoy the footage, ya mooks! Why'd you cut it off there? I want more, dammit!
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on March 10, 2015, 10:54:09 AM
Yeah, those are some of the most unenthusiastic reporters I've ever seen. If you don't even know Graham's name, then why are you covering footage of a King's Quest game to begin with?

Looking at the game's graphics now, my updated thoughts: the environments look fine. It's the character design I don't like. They look like they came out of some kind of cel-shaded hell and they clash horribly with the more realistic backgrounds. Graham's eyes are disproportionately large and his limbs look like twigs. And the color scheme on that dragon, man...

I feel like when Graham dropped that beehive on the guards, they should've spliced in Nicolas Cage screaming "Not the bees!" in the background.

Or else just photoshop this image into it.

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/222/beeweapon.jpg)
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: GrahamRocks! on March 10, 2015, 11:12:55 AM
Haha! I love that Linkara joke!

Well, as has been established, Graham is supposed to be rather young. Can't really say for the eyes, but the twigs for arms are because of his age and he hasn't started knighthood yet. You think he always had those muscles we see in 5? Takes months or even years of training to get those.

Now if years pass, and he's STILL skinny as he'll like that in say a KQ5 era episode, THEN I'll be concerned with his design.  But for now, not really.

Yeah, they ARE unenthusiastic, aren't they? Speaking in the same bland tone of voice. And telling us stuff we already know too.

What I'd love to see is some competent reporter interviewing Matt and Lindsey and instead of talking over everything, they go like:

Reporter: *asks question*

Matt: *answers and shows clip to demonstrate*

*clip plays and they stay quiet*

*back to interview*

I know, I know, that sounds obvious. That's typically how interviews go, I know. You know what I mean though, right?

Also, I like that little wave Graham gave to the dragon.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Neonivek on March 11, 2015, 01:01:18 PM
In all fairness... I like a Retcon of making Graham more of a weenie in the first game.

Because as someone who played the entire series and seen how many ways Graham could die...

Graham is kind of a amazing in the very first game (for example that dragon? Graham just throws a dagger at it)
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: GrahamRocks! on March 11, 2015, 04:19:36 PM
Character development! Everyone loves that.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on March 11, 2015, 04:42:10 PM
Somehow, I don't think Graham's character development in this reboot is going to amount to anything other than "I came, I saw, I kicked ass." TSL, some awkward writing fumbles aside, is where to look for character development in KQ. There wasn't really much character development in the official games or even the fanmade remakes. Hell, Connor's characterization was basically, "The weight of the world is on my shoulders? Cool!"
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: GrahamRocks! on March 11, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
Heh. True. I love Ghostbusters!
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on March 11, 2015, 07:20:20 PM
The funny thing is, at first I didn't realize that "We came, we saw, we kicked its ass" actually came from Ghostbusters. The first time I heard it was from a Duke Nukem game. Another thing that I first heard from Duke Nukem that came from something else was "It's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of gum," which is actually a paraphrased quote from They Live. And of course, "Hail to the King, baby."

I guess what it all boils down to is Duke Nukem has no original one-liners; they're all from pop culture.

Recently, I played this game called Samsara that crosses over multiple 90s FPS games, including Doom, Heretic, Hexen, Wolfenstein 3D, Marathon, Quake, and even Chex Quest, but Duke Nukem is one of the playable characters, and they actually give him some original lines for once. "Well, it's gonna be a closed casket now" and "Of all the death screams I've heard, that was one of the worst," among others.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: GrahamRocks! on March 11, 2015, 07:42:29 PM
I thought the kick ass and chew bubblegum was from Evil Dead or Army of Darkness? Huh. Shows what I know.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Jack Stryker on March 11, 2015, 11:57:36 PM
Did you ever play Blood?  That game was chock full of movie references.  I'll name all the ones I can remember:

- In the first level of episode 1, when Caleb comes out of his grave, he says, "I live again!"  Evil Dead reference.

- In that same level, a hidden area of the cemetery has Eric Draven's open grave from The Crow.

- In the train wreckage at the beginning of the carnival level, you can find Richard Kimble's prison uniform from The Fugitive.

- Duke Nukem's hanging dismembered corpse can also be found in a hidden area of the carnival level.  3D realms was working on the game, but sold it to Monolith so that they could work on The Shadow Warrior.  It's also a reference to Duke finding the Doom marine's corpse in Duke Nukem 3D.

- In the first level of episode 2, as Caleb is arriving by boat, he references Jaws by saying, "I'm gonna need a bigger boat."

- At the end of the level preceding the hedge maze level, there's a silhouette in a window that resembles Norman Bates' mother from Psycho.

- In the hedge maze level, you can find the frozen corpse of Jack Torrance from the Shining.  Caleb will even say, "Here's Johnny!" when you approach.

- In the sick ward level in episode 3, you can find a baby carriage with a demonic hand hanging out.  Upon approaching, Caleb will say, "I don't know nothin' about birthin' babies, Ms. Scarlet."  Reference to It's Alive!

- Just before facing off against the Cerberus boss in episode 3, Caleb will say, "Cujo?"

- A level in episode 4 has Freddie Krueger's hat and sweater hanging on a wall.

- The next level, "Crystal lake," has Jason Voorhees' mask and machete hanging on a wall, as well as his mother's severed head on a table next to some candles.

- And finally, when Caleb defeats the final boss, he says another Evil Dead line: "Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun!"
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on March 12, 2015, 10:06:16 AM
Oh, hell yeah, Blood.

While Duke Nukem was all about pop culture references in general, Blood was all about horror movie references, in particular the severed hands that say "I'll swallow your soul!", the little Calebs that burst out of mirrors and spout one-liners in Caleb's voice except very high-pitched, and the axe-wielding zombies that yell "More brains!" when they charge at you. Caleb occasionally sings nursery tunes in a sinister voice as well. There's also that one scene...you know the one I'm talking about, the blood drinking scene. For those of you who don't know, Caleb, the protagonist of the game, comes across one of his former comrades mummified in a spider web, hanging lifelessly from the ceiling. Caleb kills the huge spider who did it and saunters up to his webbed up friend...and then punches his fist through the guys stomach, rips out his intestines and heart, and starts eating them while quoting a verse from the Bible about feasting on the flesh of man--all while the spider corpse lays upside-down, legs still twitching, in the background. Looking back, the CGI animation of the cutscene really hasn't aged well, but at the time, it was the most nightmarish thing I'd ever seen in a video game.

Then Blood 2 came out, and God, what a disappointment. Caleb was downgraded from being a menacing and vengeful badass to an apathetic d0uchebag who didn't care about anything that happened around him. He spent the entirety of the first Blood getting revenge on the dark god who killed his friends, and then in Blood 2, when his friends miraculously return from the grave, he literally tells one of them to "go talk to someone who cares." Bullshit. The Blood 1 Caleb would be enthusiastic to see his friends again. The Blood 2 Caleb doesn't care. And if the main character doesn't care about anything, then why should we? It gets even worse in the expansion pack, where it appears his friends don't give a crap about him either. The opening cinematic is Caleb and friends sitting around a campfire telling stories to one another, and as Caleb is talking, a rift opens behind him and sucks him inside. His friends' reactions? "He always was bad at telling stories." Seriously? You're not concerned about the fact that your friend just got sucked into a black hole that spontaneously appeared and you have no idea where or when he could be, and your reaction is just "eh, whatever, it happens"?
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Jack Stryker on March 12, 2015, 05:05:55 PM
Yeah, I can't say I cared much for Blood 2 either.  I watched my brother play through it once and didn't find it that great.

I wish I had something more on topic to say. :(
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on March 12, 2015, 06:41:59 PM
I miss those games. Games where you could blow up the bad guys and your character would make little quips about it. Duke Nukem 3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Redneck Rampage...those days are long gone. The most recent game I can think of is The Adventures of Square, which uses the Doom engine and deliberately MS Paint-esque visuals to create a colorful cartoonish atmosphere.

(http://i.imgur.com/oNkxZY4.png)

In it, you play a purple, cigar-chomping square who must battle evil blue circles with all manner of weapons--including a defibrillator--all the while making painful, geometry-based puns. Whenever you blow up an enemy, he says something like "Cornered!" or "Get off my plane!" And yes, it's every bit as glorious as it sounds.

You can download the game for free here: http://adventuresofsquare.com/downloads.php (http://adventuresofsquare.com/downloads.php) I highly recommend it if you're looking for old-school FPS fun and have plenty of time to kill. Although, you should probably play at an easier difficulty to start with; on the hardest settings, it's nightmarishly difficult.

Wow, things really got sidetracked fast in this thread.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on March 13, 2015, 09:59:21 AM
I loved Blood but I actually never played the sequel. Everyone I know who HAS played the sequel told me it was disappointing. What' wrong with it?
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on March 13, 2015, 11:21:13 AM
Well, I've already stated some reasons above, but to go more in-depth, Blood 2 simply doesn't have the lovably malicious spirit that the original had. The weapons got nerfed hard in between games, and the napalm cannon that was so useful for burning zombies in 1 is completely underwhelming in 2, to the point that there's really no use in using it.

Some enemies explode violently when they die, but you're given no warning that it's going to happen, and would have no idea to stay away from them until after you've already gotten blasted at least once. The most powerful weapons in the game have barely any ammo laying around for you to find. Some enemies take way too long to kill, and the satisfaction you get of destroying the opposition in 1 is lost in 2 where you realize you're better off just running past everything. Small enemies called Bone Leeches attack you by jumping on your face, and the manual that comes with the game never says how you're supposed to get them off, leaving you to die wondering what you did wrong.

In Blood 1, everything was made with 2D sprites, allowing more detailed and grisly death animations for enemies that get blown up. In Blood 2, the engine is a very early 3D engine, meaning that environments are mostly undetailed, most enemies look the same, and they all generally die the same, too--either just falling over or blowing up into undetailed chunks.

The antagonists are almost completely nonthreatening, especially by comparison to the creepy abominations you had to fight in 1. While Blood 1 didn't have the hardest final boss, Blood 2's final boss is downright pathetic by comparison. Blood 1's final boss is a giant skeletal minotaur that could kill you simply by looking at you. Blood 2's final boss is an immobile, nondescript blob with an eyeball sticking out. Gee, I wonder what its weak spot is?

And last, but not least, Caleb himself. You see this picture of him here? You see how he looks like a combination of my avatar and the Disturbed mascot?

(http://blood-wiki.org/images/6/6b/B2_Caleb.jpg)

This is a character that is supposed to be threatening. Vicious. Almost feral. In Blood 1, he sings "Ring Around the Rosie" while in a city that just came under a firebombing attack. He kills indiscriminately, whether it be his true enemies or just innocent people who get in the way. He throws dynamite at zombies and cackles when they explode into chunky kibbles. His favorite weapon is dual-wielding flare guns, which obviously burns up anyone who gets hit by one. He goes to a carnival and looks for any excuse possible to kill the mimes he finds there, and when he sees an attraction for JoJo, one of the carnival employees, he appears to forget why he's there in the first place and chants "I want JoJo! I want JoJo!" When he kills Cerberus, a two-headed dog monster, he says, "Good doggy. Play dead." In short, he's a sadistic, intimidating force of nature.

In Blood 2, though...he is easily outsmarted over and over again by the new (and very wussy) big bad, gets caught in multiple train crashes, whimpers "Make the hurting stop" whenever he gets attacked, and upon being told that he has the fate of the world on his hands, his reaction, rather than being "How exciting!" is more like "I don't care."

You starting to get the picture here?
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on March 13, 2015, 02:18:17 PM
Ah I see. So they messed with the mood and themes.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on March 13, 2015, 03:38:09 PM
Not to mention the voice acting was atrocious. Only the person voicing Caleb himself put forth any effort into his acting.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on March 16, 2015, 07:42:19 AM
Well that's a shame. This does make me wanna get the bigbox version of the original Blood. Of course, my main issue is, I'd have nowhere to put it. I own about 50-60 Big Box PC games
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Numbers on March 16, 2015, 08:06:23 AM
I've long since ditched bigbox games. It's Steam and Origin for me all the way, baby. No hassle with CDs getting ruined or broken, no worries about there being too much space taken up on my PC thanks to being able to install and uninstall everything on a whim, and so on.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on March 16, 2015, 08:40:32 AM
Oh, I'm too much of a show-off to ditch my dos games. I own over 300 games across various system, not counting digital games.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Jack Stryker on March 16, 2015, 11:29:30 AM
I remember back when I used to play Blood with my Queen's greatest hits CD in the computer and certain songs would be played on certain levels.  It would start with We Will Rock You on the title screen, then the first level of episode 1 would play Another One Bites the Dust, followed by Killer Queen on the next level, and Crazy Little Thing Called Love on the next.  The only other one I remember is We Are the Champions playing on the final boss level.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work for me anymore, when playing the game on DosBox.  Plus, I actually had to use the "keymaster" code at one point because there was a key missing from its usual spot in a certain level of episode 3.  (I even watched a playthrough of the level to find out where the key was and checked that exact spot, but still couldn't find it.)

Lately though, I've been playing the old Die Hard dos game that I used to watch my brothers play when I was a kid.  They never could get very far though, since they didn't have the manual; which had the codes for disabling the security system and allowing you to get upstairs.  But I recently found a guide that had the controls and the security codes, and have gotten as far as dropping the computer bomb down the elevator shaft to blow up the guys shooting at the Police.  Ironically, my biggest problem is with the unarmed bad guys who can somehow punch as fast as the Flash.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on March 16, 2015, 12:17:55 PM
What Die Hard games are those? Die Hard Trilogy?
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: Jack Stryker on March 16, 2015, 02:55:40 PM
No, this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcPnf7JkOkI

Sadly, nobody's posted a full game playthrough as of yet though.  And as you can see, it's a bit complicated for those who don't understand its controls.
Title: Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
Post by: stika on March 16, 2015, 02:58:27 PM
Oh wow. I had never even heard of this game. The 3D graphics look pretty amazing considering the hardware. Interesting to think how many games based on Die Hard there are. Many of them are really good too.