I saw Playthrough Videos of MOE and i must say with its 2D Graphics its infact a very Violent Game, i mean you litterly chop off Arms and Heads while doing some menacing Kill Moves, plus you Die when you fall in Lava and Burn while Screaming to death.
Forget Skyrim when Killing a Chicken by accident, in MOE you whack off Chicky's head while the poor thing runs around in circles before it dies.
So if MOE was made today, the Game would have a Age 16 Rating
Um, don't you mean an M rating? That's what we have in the US anyway.
You from the UK?
I still say Skyrim is worse, though. Disentigrating people to ashes with powered up Shock spells and/or powered up Unrelenting Force from Hermaeous Mora, setting people on fire, decapitating a crochety old orphan caretaker IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN (granted Grelod the Kind deserves it), stealing peoples souls and sticking them into Soul Gems to enchant weapons which will put them into the Soul Cairn for eternal suffering and torment, getting bit by a Vampire and turning into one if you don't heal yourself quickly which makes everyone fear you, turning into a Werewolf and having to eat people to gain sustenance, stabbing people with ice spells, coming up behind someone while sneaking and slitting their throats, beating an old man to death with a mace until he relents and worships that particular Daedra, taking a follower of Arkay to a cave in the middle of nowhere to be killed and EATEN by people including YOU...
I stand by my sentiment that Skyrim is worse in that regard.
Im from South Africa so yea the Rating System is the same as the UK i suppose and i agree 100% that Skyrim is Worse in that Regards, i have so many Mods to make Skyrim Friendlier especially the fact that the Nightmother Never shuts up about Contracts where i killed the Same Guy 4 times already plus the fact that the Only Kill Move is Chopping off heads where i see Arms and Legs get a beat down but they dont seem to come off.
So yea MOE is close to Skyrim in that regard.
If MoE was released today, it would be more explicit than before, that's for sure. I think the only reason it didn't get an M rating was because of the fact that it was very under-detailed. Just imagine some of the death scenes--getting burned to death in lava, chopping enemies' heads off, getting smashed by a spiked ceiling that's dripping with blood, bashing a Spriggan's face in with a hatchet, etc. rendered in today's graphics. It'd be pretty graphic.
BTW, GrahamRocks, death scenes like disintegrating, melting and soul-stealing don't mean anything. They're hardly the most violent things to come from fiction. They're just a convenient way to show people getting killed without resorting to gore, and tamer fantasy franchises (think the Indiana Jones movies or The Mummy movies) have death scenes like that all the time.
Fair enough.
In MOE you can Kill Everything, even Frogs where you bash them in pieces where you can see their Guts explode so to to speak.
So the Question is, is MOE Truly a Canon KQ Game, or did Roberta Williams intend to make a Violent Game by just smacking the KQ Logo on it.
Sure the Previous KQ Games had their fare share of Scary moments and Violence in a more nicer way, but MOE is infact the Goriest Game of a Fairytale Franchise so to speak.
*cough* Quest for Glory 3 Death Messages *cough*
Meh, they're cute and amusing with funny wording jokes.
You can imply death and destruction without showing it to get away with a softer rating. Some of the violence in The Dark Knight is implied so the movie can get away with a PG-13 rating, for example. You don't actually see the guy with the pencil in his eye socket, you don't see the Joker carve a Glasgow grin into that other guy's mouth, you don't see Two-Face shooting his car driver in the head, and you don't see that mob boss catching fire while sitting on the pile of burning money. All of it is offscreen, and not only is it better that way, but the movie doesn't have to worry about getting an R-rating.
MoE is the only King's Quest game that's actually all that violent, although KQ2+ has its moments. TSL notably has a "tell, don't show" approach for its death scenes, so people who are squeamish don't have to actually watch Graham get beheaded, mauled, splat on the ground after falling from a great height, etc. QfG has more violence, as a result of actual fight scenes, which KQ is much lighter on. Sort of comes with the territory.
Space Quest is significantly more violent than KQ or QfG are, at least until they watered the violence down for the later games. Vohaul Strikes Back returned to the series' violent roots, and many of Roger's deaths involved a large amount of blood.
It's telling how little I care about the game that I've completely forgotten the QfG3 death messages.
Laura Bow is pretty bloody too.
As for me, I like QFGIII. It's where the series really started getting really good and fun for me. A know some people don't like it because of the dialogue scenes being so much, but I like it. I like how everyone has a personality, even the merchants.
But that's a discussion for another day.
If it were remade today it would probably play like a medieval Tomb Raider with a few RPG elements thrown in I think.
I knew about King's Quest: Mask of Eternity for years before it was released. I knew for some time before it's release that it was going to have combat.
When I learned that it was going to have combat, it did not, at the time, strike me as being a bad thing for a KQ game. Previous KQ games had dark aspects to them, especially King's Quest VI. In King's Quest VI, the player has to deal with an evil villain, many of the characters have weapons, many of the characters attempt to kill the player's character, and the player's character has to engage in a swordfight with the villain at the end.
It sounded like a new and interesting aspect of the game. I imagined that it would be in the style of the previous KQ games, with bright, colorful environments, and mostly upbeat, with only mild violence.
I started playing KQMOE a few months after it was released, in early 1999. I was 11 years old at the time. I was surprised a lot by the amount and degree of violence, and by the darkness of the game.
King's Quest: Mask of Eternity is really more a horror adventure game than an action adventure game. It's combat is slow-paced and graphically violent, and the majority of the game is dark, desolate, and gloomy.
Quote from: Numbers on October 25, 2014, 03:29:29 PM
If MoE was released today, it would be more explicit than before, that's for sure. I think the only reason it didn't get an M rating was because of the fact that it was very under-detailed. Just imagine some of the death scenes--getting burned to death in lava, chopping enemies' heads off, getting smashed by a spiked ceiling that's dripping with blood, bashing a Spriggan's face in with a hatchet, etc. rendered in today's graphics. It'd be pretty graphic.
I've thought this too.
By the way, remember how I've told in the past about how I've made a modified version of OpenGlide that allows you to play Glide games, including KQ8, in stereoscopic 3D?
You should see what KQ8's violence is like in S3D.
Just one example: With the cutscene where Connor kills the Spriggan at the graveyard with the dagger, because of how close the camera is, the Spriggan's head is right in your face as Connor slices it off, and blood flies in your face.
Oh, and it also makes the game a lot scarier. The sheer size and barrenness of some of the game's environments is unnerving. Imagine falling off a cliff in S3D. :)
TSL may be thematically darker than MoE (dark pasts, nightmare sequences, the fear of losing family members, etc.), but it's not nearly as gloomy. TSL has plenty of light moments throughout, with the only outright frightening scene being the banshee jump scare, which was given away in the trailer for episode 3 anyways. The only humor in MoE comes from unintentional sources, mostly the hilariously bad dialogue.
I still remember one part in the Dimension of Death wherein Connor is reading a cryptic message on a tablet. The message goes, paraphrased, "Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in images. One must pass through the image into the truth." That line was so completely stupid-sounding that I couldn't listen to it without laughing. The fact that Connor reads it in a tone of voice that indicates he actually understands it seals the deal.
I'd argue KQ4 is much more of a horror game than KQ8 is:
It isn't truly SCARY—like in truly horror story sense—but it's very subtly spooky. It isn't blood and gore, or any of that, yet it still manages to be very creepy. I'll explain why if you care to read, please tell me your feelings later on and whether you agree—your thoughts and anything you'd like to add:.
To start off, the land you walk around in, Tamir, is very empty. There's not even any music that accompanies you from screen to screen—The land is empty; silent; seemingly for the most part, deserted. You're alone, and each minute you waste is precious time lost. It somehow feels very desolate; abandoned—like if you were to explore a ghost town or a long abandoned building. That in itself is kind of eerie—picture wandering around a long dead, mostly ghost town, filled with not much more than some impoverished people and a creepy, downtrodden and forgotten little cemetery with crumbling graves, and a mysterious, spooky, deteriorating house—and an ominous network of caves.
And also...it seems like death awaits around every corner. You have the Ogre, who can pop up out of the blue, chase you, and you don't know why he's chasing you, and the music which accompanies him is pounding and intense. He's almost like a real life psychopath chasing you, and if he catches you, you're dinner. A screen over from the Ogre's House, you have a forest of creepy, evil trees with glowing green eyes that will crush the life out of you if you get too close. Or the Troll, the entrance to whose lair is littered with bones...You never see anything but his eerie, shining eyes in the dark and you hear nothing but an ominous "Grr" in the blackness of the cave. He, like the Ogre, pops up anywhere and once he does, you're doomed no matter what you do, and—again in a psychopathic way, he just wants to kill you. You don't even see him, but it's those glowing eyes and that sudden jumping out of the dense blackness—at any moment- to pull you away to a terrifying, unknown fate which makes it scary. The game's death message enforces the horror of your plight by telling you: "Fate be what it may, you are dragged off to meet it."
And the whole ghost sequence. You have to help wailing, frightened, unhappy ghosts—You're greeted in the midst of a dark, creepy night, having narrowly avoided the clutches re-animated, rotting corpses known as zombies which hunger for your flesh—and in the middle of a long abandoned, falling down house—By strange, frightening sights and soughts: Ghostly captains lost at sea, a grieving lady spirit whose is wailing.
Perhaps most disturbing about your night in Whaley Manor is the wailing cries of an unseen, dead baby. You're greeted in the midst of night by the sounds of his violent wailing from beyond the grave, and you see a rocking cradle with no baby inside. Imagine just this moment if the game had voices—imagine hearing the baby's cry, the zombie's hungry growls and grunts, the ghost's wails and moans. You have to dig up these ghosts' graves, feeling amongst their rotting corpses, and reach into their very coffins to get items to pacify their restless souls, all while smelly, putrid zombies surround you, hoping you'll take off the Scarab so that they may enjoy their dinner.
You have to narrowly avoid as well three ravenous, treacherous, foul and ugly witches, who share but an eye (meaning one's eye socket is eyeless; just picture that); and you have to carry this witche's eye in your hand, and dart as they throw themselves at you, trying desperately to catch you so as to eat you—A dangerous game of cat and mouse around a boiling cauldron. Once wrong step, and you're dead meat for the three witches later to eat. Notice a pattern here? Or how about the little forest of trees who only wish to embrace you—so as to crush the life out of you in their twisted arms.
And beyond the horror, there's a great sense of melancholy, even the happy moments; For example, the cleaning of the Dwarves' house. The music which plays when you clean the Dwarves' house somehow comes off creepy, melancholy—with an apprehensive undertone to it, a bittersweet sort of sadness to it. Almost a nostalgic sort of sound—a gleaming bit of very dim light amidst the darkness. Even the "points" sound sounds nothing like the point sound in the other games. It too sounds almost a little desperate, like, "Yeah, you got a point. Try and survive the rest of this now." It's not a rewarding sound.
The game actually kind of reminds me of like an early version of Resident Evil in some ways, less blood and gore though But a similar concept—a very basic psychological form of horror underpins this game. Death lies at the turn of every corner. Creatures seek to reach out, grab and devour you, and you must either move fast or succumb to fate. Never again in any King's Quest game do you have so many creepy creatures out to get you; never again in KQ do you confront the nighttime; never again in King's Quest is death and fear handled quite seriously—Even in KQ6, you have a campy moment with the skeletons dancing. Nothing like that here. I just think there's a very heavy, desperate sense of urgency, a feeling that you're in this alone, or eerie sort of sadness to it. Never before and never again is your mission as urgent.
Never before or again do you feel so alone—You are but a lonesome, defenseless princess (usually, in fairy tales, the swooning damsel in distress) who just has been saved from what seemed like certain death at the hands of ravenous dragon, only to watch your father succumb to a strange, very possibly fatal illness, and within only hours of being in the despair of the dragon's lair and meeting your brother for the first time in 17 years, you're thrust into a strange, very hostile land; Any misstep could lead to death, and you have many creepy, violent beings wandering the land who crave to eat your flesh. No friend accompanies you on your mission; No aid is truly given, except at the end of the game. And at the end of 24 hours of fear, panic, and horror, you're forced to kill in order to survive.
Even so, the horror is played very subtly under the surface of it being "just another KQ game", and I wonder if Roberta might've been subconsiously driven by her well known love of horror stories while designing it—Remember she designed the first Laura Bow game around the same time as KQ4. Perhaps somewhere in the back of her mind, the idea of doing a scary story was brewing—and this was a subconscious outlet for it. Roberta is well known as a fan of horror stories, Steven King and the like—She has professed to like them about as much as she loves fairy tales and fantasy.
The game is scary in the same way that the show Unsolved Mysteries was scary—No blood and guts or gore, but enough to keep you awake if playing it's darker moments on a dark and lonely night.
To cap off these thoughts, consider this moment of the game:
Tamir suddenly drops to night—a time even more perilous and scary than daylight there, and as little, eerie piece of organ music drones, a moon, pale as death, rises up in an ocean blue sky, hovering over a mountain landscape which you know already is full of danger, and a line of trees, and the game informs you:
"Like a heavy blanket, darkness enfolds you."
Whoa...
I never thought of it like that. :o
Me neither. That was very well said. I don't think I'll ever look at the game the same way anymore.
Of course, I always found the zombies to be little more than a nuisance; since it's hard to get to night time without the scarab. And I actually did manage to outrun the troll once, though I think it was a bug. And the scary trees I felt were too easily dealt with, and too quickly turned into not-so-scary trees. I mean, Rosella swings the ax one time and they suddenly decide to just leave her alone for the rest of eternity, even at night when her visibility wouldn't be as good.
Personally, I always found the realm of the dead in KQ6 much more scary. With those walking dead corpses- particularly the one with a knife or something stuck in his head-, the restless spirits with their eerie voices, and then the corpse of the knight that the arch druid told Alex about. To this day, I still get chills, just thinking about how he died there of all places and what must've been going through his mind.
Then there's the ghosts of Anastasia's parents in the VGA KQ2.
KQ1 already had that tone. Daventry is a crapsack world, enshrouded by a bubble that makes it so that you never cover much distance and if you walk too long in one direction, you'll find yourself retreading old ground. On one screen alone, you can get ambushed by a thieving dwarf, a paralysis-inducing sorcerer, and an ogre that will simply smash you on sight. Go up a few screens and you get a wolf added to the mix, who is faster than the rest of the rogue's gallery. Enter a certain deep forest screen and you will inevitably come across the witch, moving too fast for you to evade. Want to fetch the three MacGuffins of the story? Hope you have a way to defend yourself against a dragon, a giant, and an army of leprechauns.
KQ2 is pretty much more of the same. You've got dwarfs, enchanters, and Hagatha on your tail, and they can pop up on any screen at any moment. Want to get three more MacGuffins? You'll need to find a way to breathe underwater, fly, and survive for quite a while inside Dracula's mansion. Then once that's all over with, you still have to enter a bizarre dimension with purple water that will instantly suck you under if you step into it, and find a way to bypass a lion that's guarding your precious damsel in distress.
KQ2+ made it even darker. Even with the addition of a peaceful town with quirky inhabitants and a talking pumpkin patch, you have to survive underwater in Sharkee territory for a prolonged period of time, pass a series of exams that test your morality while high up in the sky, survive in a poison swamp labyrinth, and enter Caldaur's castle. While he turns out to not be such a bad guy after all, the first time you see him, you're almost certain he's there to rip your throat out--which he will, if you don't have a good reaction time. Then you find yourself working for this guy who can go back on his word at any moment and do away with you, watch as his family succumbs to his vampirism in a last-ditch effort to keep them safe, and cross paths with a monk who is not the righteous man he claims to be. In the end, you're running a time limit while being pursued by wolves, both feral and of the were-variety, and forced to kill your opponent as he and his thugs have you cornered. Oh, but it doesn't stop there. Just when you're in the clear, you have to outwit a dwarf, solve a knights-and-knaves puzzle, and get past the lion to find Valanice. And then Hagatha's waiting for you. And when you defeat her, you finally get married to Valanice, and all seems well...until Morgeilen rears his ugly head and you're forced to sword fight someone who is much more powerful than you, and upon his defeat, he unleashes curses upon you before getting away scot-free.
Then KQ3 happens. Oh man, KQ3. You're working for Manannan, the first major baddie in the franchise, as a slave who can be discovered at any moment, and if you haven't played the game a whole lot, you'll never have any idea when he could pop up. In the process of escaping his grasp, you cross paths with a pair of bandits, a huge spider, and Medusa herself. After receiving a revelation that your family is being terrorized, you narrowly escape Manannan's clutches, stowing away aboard a pirate ship. After that, you need to survive a shark, a yeti, and the most unforgiving narrow pathways the series has to offer. Finally, you meet the three-headed dragon that is about to sacrifice your sister, and if you don't know it's there ahead of time, you'll die immediately when it sees you.
And then Graham gets a heart attack. (I like to think it's because he realized that MoE was going to be the last game in the series. "That's the series finale?! Ungh...")
What I'm saying is, the first half of the KQ series is pretty dark, and the main reason KQ4 is more well remembered for its darkness over the others is because it has the advantage of having a better engine, less blocky graphics, a dimmer color palette, and a professional music composer. It has all of the same stuff that the first three games had, just done better. And for my money, the scariest scene in the entire KQ series is definitely that cave troll. You're alone in a cave you can barely make out, being chased by a psycho you can't see, and there's nothing you can do to defend yourself. Even if you make it through his cave once to get the magic fruit, you'll still have to go back in there and you just know he's going to be waiting for you to return. That 3D KQ4 that's being worked on made the mistake of showing what the troll looks like in one of its promotional screenshots, and IIRC, he just looks like a Sasquatch. Definitely not the right look. He should just stay a pair of eyes that follows you, he's much creepier that way.
KQ definitely became more whimsical in its second half, MoE aside. KQ5 is oddly lighthearted, given the plot of the game is Graham trying to reclaim his entire castle from an even more powerful antagonist than the previous few. KQ6 has Alexander stranded on the hostile shores of the Land of the Green Isles, which could make for a threatening environment...and then you get to the Isle of Wonder. The less said about that, the better. KQ7 is far and away the most lighthearted game in the series, which is odd when you consider that the plot involves trying to stop a volcanic eruption. Almost everything is played for laughs. Even the Boogeyman, who is basically a cross between a zombie and the Joker, says "Gotcha!" and makes a cheesy laugh when he catches you. One of the game overs is getting freaked out by a jack-in-the-box, for crying out loud.
MoE, in some ways, is more similar in tone to the first half of the series. There are barely any friendlies around, the music is creepy as hell, and you're surrounded by dark creatures unleashed by chaos itself. The corniness of the dialogue and the halfassed voice acting (those skeletons in the Dimension of Death are seriously the dumbest-sounding motherf*ckers I've heard in any game) is the only thing that saves it from being pure nightmare fuel. Well, that and the fact that the game's environments seem to just be the writers going off of a checklist of what a video game should have in it. We have the obligatory swamp level, later followed up by the mandatory lava level, which is then immediately followed up by the always-a-fan-favorite snow level. We get it, you have the technology to show off multiple environments. It still doesn't justify the game having the most ponderous loading screens ever.
QuoteAnd then Graham gets a heart attack. (I like to think it's because he realized that MoE was going to be the last game in the series. "That's the series finale?! Ungh...")
:rofl:
QuoteThat 3D KQ4 that's being worked on made the mistake of showing what the troll looks like in one of its promotional screenshots, and IIRC, he just looks like a Sasquatch. Definitely not the right look. He should just stay a pair of eyes that follows you, he's much creepier that way.
Yeah, my crew members and I have pretty much all agreed on that. That picture is just an early concept image. I think- or at least I hope- that he'll end up staying a silhouette, if and when we do get around to inserting him in the game. We've also been considering ways for Rosella to hide from him, and even do away with him- once you've gotten the fruit- so that his mere presence is no longer a guaranteed death sentence. But that's about all I'm at liberty to say at the moment.
I always pictured him looking sort of like a muscular caveman--a large, feral brute that can't be reasoned with. Sort of like the ogre, except you can at least see the ogre in the daylight. No such luck in a pitch-black cavern. If that troll was a large spider instead, his cave would be a dead ringer for Shelob's lair. It doesn't help that if he even appears on screen, no matter how far away he is from you, he'll immediately catch up to you by the next screen. It's like the sharks in between Tamir and Genesta's island. It's all a matter of luck, and if you get seen by either monster, you're guaranteed to die, and it's just yet another dick move that Sierra threw your way. Save early and save often, indeed.
On a related note, does it bug anyone else that there's a bridge troll in KQ1, a cave troll in KQ4, and Vulcanix trolls in KQ7, and none of these trolls even remotely resemble each other?
Jack and Numbers, I agree with your posts wholeheartedly! It is interesting to see how much darker the early KQ games are in comparison to the later entries in the series. I liked how KQII VGA also took the dark aspects of KQII and intensified them significantly. I was legitimately scared in parts of that game.
Concerning King's Quest IV and the night scenes, Roberta said in the notes for the King's Quest Collection Series that working on the night scenes of KQIV inspired her for the night scenes in The Colonel's Bequest. It's interesting, because although there are some downright creepy scenes and moments in that game, the chances of death are fairly low for a Roberta game. You can definitely still die, but most of the deaths are easily avoidable.
I do agree that the Troll Cave is definitely one of the scariest parts of the KQ series. I still to this day won't play that part of the game in the dark, simply because it's so creepy. I hope that we do eventually get a KQIV remake. It would be amazing to see what could be done on a more modern engine to enhance that game! :)
As for the multiple trolls, I never really thought about it, but they are quite different. Maybe they're different races? One's a bridge troll, one's a cave troll, and one's a....er....volcanic troll? Underground troll? Hmm... :D
Talk to you later!
JDHJANUS
Josh
Maybe the different troll races are like different species of dogs. I for one would never have known that a chihuahua and a great dane were supposed to be the same type of animal if I hadn't looked at so many pictures of dogs during my growing-up period.
Speaking of which, KQ1 has a feral ogre in it, who attacks you on sight, whereas KQ4 has a sentient ogre and ogress who live in their own home and cook their meals. Maybe the same idea with them?
And we've also got the KQ4 zombies and mummy, who appear to be non-sentient re-animated corpses who are easily repelled by magical artifacts, in contrast to the zuvembies from KQ6, who appear to be aware of their surroundings but are too miserable and lost to do anything about it, and will literally melt you on touch, even if it's by accident. Compare that with the undead residents of Ooga Booga in KQ7, at least some of which aren't openly hostile and will help you out. The ones that are hostile are completely aware that they're dead and can't receive retribution for messing around with people, and are loving every minute of it. The MoE zombies go back to being KQ4-like, being slow, dumb, easily repelled enemies. The skeletons seem to be more self-aware, although their level of intelligence is up for debate. If you ask me, they sound like a bunch of boneheads.
[spoiler]I'm sorry.[/spoiler]
And let's be honest, if Manannan and Mordack are supposed to be brothers just because they're both wizards, even though they clearly have different skin tones, then no relation should be a surprise in this series.
Never apologize for puns, Numbers!
I agree on the troll thing, btw.
I just assume that either Manannan doesn't go outside very much or they're from a different mother or father who has a different skin tone.
What *I* don't understand is why in the AGDI remake is why did they make Alex's portrait so pale?! I figured the skin tone in the original is because he spends time outside doing chores in the sunlight.
It's also been speculated that Hagatha from KQ2 was Manannan and Mordack's sister; which seems to be the case in the VGA version. (You can find a letter from Manannan to Hagatha; which she lined the bottom of the bird's cage with. :P)
QuoteWhat *I* don't understand is why in the AGDI remake is why did they make Alex's portrait so pale?!
Well, at least he didn't have that nasty black mark on his neck, that the KQ6 portrait did. (Honestly, how did the developers not notice that?) His AGD voice actor... could've given a better performance though.
Quote from: Jack Stryker on March 31, 2015, 05:51:28 PM
It's also been speculated that Hagatha from KQ2 was Manannan and Mordack's sister; which seems to be the case in the VGA version. (You can find a letter from Manannan to Hagatha; which she lined the bottom of the bird's cage with. :P)
QuoteWhat *I* don't understand is why in the AGDI remake is why did they make Alex's portrait so pale?!
Well, at least he didn't have that nasty black mark on his neck, that the KQ6 portrait did. (Honestly, how did the developers not notice that?) His AGD voice actor... could've given a better performance though.
Roberta herself said that Hagatha was disconnected from the rest of the baddies. It's just a theory that the fans have run with, since it makes her more interesting than merely another wicked witch like in the first game.
I figured that Alexander barely spent any time outside, since Manannan would want to keep a close watch on him. The only time Alexander's allowed outside seems to be when Manannan wants his chickens fed. In the intro, Alexander is standing outside on the cliff face overlooking Llewdor and Manannan admonishes him because he's supposed to be inside doing his chores.
And yeah, Alexander...isn't very exciting to listen to. Some people seem to have a crush on Robbie Benson's voice, but aside from that, his voice acting is always really boring.
Yeah, I knew about Hagatha. Hey, it works for me.
Good point about Alex, btw. Huh. Makes me wonder why he's darker in the original then, if that's true? I mean, that makes sense to me.
Quote from: Numbers on March 31, 2015, 01:41:13 PM
I always pictured him looking sort of like a muscular caveman--a large, feral brute that can't be reasoned with. Sort of like the ogre, except you can at least see the ogre in the daylight. No such luck in a pitch-black cavern. If that troll was a large spider instead, his cave would be a dead ringer for Shelob's lair. It doesn't help that if he even appears on screen, no matter how far away he is from you, he'll immediately catch up to you by the next screen. It's like the sharks in between Tamir and Genesta's island. It's all a matter of luck, and if you get seen by either monster, you're guaranteed to die, and it's just yet another dick move that Sierra threw your way. Save early and save often, indeed.
On a related note, does it bug anyone else that there's a bridge troll in KQ1, a cave troll in KQ4, and Vulcanix trolls in KQ7, and none of these trolls even remotely resemble each other?
No to your last question, because I always figured they were different species of trolls. Some more intelligent and less feral than others.
Rock Knight, you're way too accepting of logical fallacies in this series.
How is that bad?
If you don't pick out flaws in something you like, you're not thinking hard enough about it. It's perfectly possible to absolutely love something and still make fun of it at the same time. That's the difference between you and me, GrahamRocks: I like MoE even though I know how bad it is, whereas you like KQ7 and act like it has no flaws, even when it so clearly does.
I would also like to call out those who think KQ6 is absolutely perfect, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Alexander is a creepy and unlikable protagonist, Cassima is a drama queen, Tony Jay seems to voice every other character in the game, which means you'll be hearing him way too much, the Isle of Wonder is annoying as sh*t, the Beauty and the Beast homage is unbelievably cheesy--even for this series--the voice acting, while a cut above KQ5, KQ7 and MoE, is still pretty terrible, especially Lady Celeste, Shamir, and the clam with the pearl in its mouth, the Isle of the Sacred Mountain relies way too heavily on copy protection instead of actual puzzle solving, the Land of the Dead's tone is ruined with the dancing skeletons, and one of the worst songs ever written plays during the end credits. You know you're in trouble when Jollo is the most likable character in the game.
I don't even want to dignify that with a response. No, I take that back.
One person's game ruining flaw is another's enjoyment despite that flaw.
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on April 02, 2015, 02:19:20 PM
I don't even want to dignify that with a response. No, I take that back.
Why did you even type that? Do you just write in train-of-thought mode and not go back and re-read it later? If you went back and saw a lot of your posts now, you'd realize just how many of them have unnecessary details.
Hey, I'm aware that KQ6 isn't perfect. (I just pointed out a problem with Alex's talking portrait that the developers were somehow too blind to notice, after all.) However...
QuoteCassima is a drama queen
Well... she did get kidnapped by an evil wizard; who made her his slave, (hmm... does that sound like someone we know?) and finally came back home, only to find that her parents were dead. Plus she was forced to stay in her room while "sequestered in mourning" for them. And to top it all off, she was being forced to marry a man solely for political reasons, while being forbidden from seeing the man she actually wanted to see again. Frankly, I don't want to meet the woman who feels good after all that.
QuoteTony Jay seems to voice every other character in the game, which means you'll be hearing him way too much
Mel Blanc voiced almost every character in the loony tunes cartoons, but you don't hear people complaining about that. Besides, it's not like he uses the same exact voice every time.
Quotethe Isle of Wonder is annoying as sh*t
Well, the queens were certainly annoying, with all their childish fighting. And the bookworm's annoying pets. And the sense guards talking all at once, while instructing each of them to check and see if "a man" is there. When I'm at work and my manager has instructions for me, I don't say what he says while he's saying it. I just listen to what he says and then do it. Why couldn't those guys be like that?
Other than that though, I found the place fairly tolerable.
Quotethe Beauty and the Beast homage is unbelievably cheesy--even for this series--
I'll agree with that one, not to mention how they made it a mix between that story and Cinderella. And when the stepmother asks, "Where do you think you're going?" Beauty just says, "To a place where somebody needs me... blah blah blah." And then boom! Cut to her meeting Beast on the island. Was the stepmother really so touched that she decided to just let her go? Or is there a scene missing, in which Alex walks up to her and knocks her out?
Quotethe voice acting, while a cut above KQ5, KQ7 and MoE, is still pretty terrible, especially Lady Celeste, Shamir, and the clam with the pearl in its mouth
I'll agree about the clam, but his talking is over with pretty quickly. Same for Celeste. And none of those voices compare to Possum's in AGD's KQ2 remake. If you want to hear REALLY bad voice acting, look no further than Possum.
Quotethe Isle of the Sacred Mountain relies way too heavily on copy protection instead of actual puzzle solving
You've got me there, dude. You've totally got me there.
Quotethe Land of the Dead's tone is ruined with the dancing skeletons
Well, at least they
tried to save it, by having the narrator say that "despite their frolic, they don't seem any friendlier." Besides, how else was Alex supposed to get that guy's key? And even that musical number still wasn't enough to keep me from being creeped out by the knight's corpse, remembering the arch druid's story about him, and my thoughts about how he died there.
Quoteand one of the worst songs ever written plays during the end credits.
Again, you've got me there.
At last, a good debate.
As far as Cassima's concerned, Alexander goes through something similar to her, but he is wayyyyy understated by comparison; maybe that has something to do with Cassima seeming so melodramatic.
Tony Jay's voice is just too distinctive for me. I can always tell when it's him. Whenever I hear Saladin, the lamp seller, the arch-druid, Gate, or one of the ghostly guards in the Land of the Dead, I instantly realize it's the same voice every time, and it takes me out of the game. It might have something to do with the fact that I recognize him as Judge Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame, singer of "Hellfire," only the best Disney villain song ever.
I think that King's Quest does its darker material so much better than the lighthearted stuff. That's why KQ2+ is so popular with me, why Mordack's castle is my favorite location in the whole series, and why I prefer MoE over KQ7. The wacky stuff just doesn't do it for me. Falderal can burn in hell for all I'm concerned.
As far as the Cinderella stuff where the girl says she's going to a place where she's wanted, I always did wonder why they cut that so short. If Alexander actually did clock that old lady, it would be so out-of-character for him it would've been hilarious.
And yes, Possum is the worst voice of any KQ game. I am including Cedric, Archduke Fifi Le Yipyap, and the skeletons from MoE in that equation.
The Isle of the Sacred Mountain should be intriguing, but I'm always taken out of the experience when I have to minimize the game and look at the KQ6 manual in Adobe Reader.
The Land of the Dead just became less intense for me after the skeletons started doing can-cans. There should've been some other way to get that key. And a bone xylophone? "Let me play you the song of my people, using the remains of your dead brethren."
"Girl in the Tower" was just so bad. Not "Land Beyond Dreams" bad...but pretty bad. "Coming Home" from KQ3Redux was far and away the best song in any KQ game. Not because of the singer, because he was a little off-key, but the composition was stupendous. MusicallyInspired went above and beyond the call of duty when he wrote that game's OST.
Quote from: Numbers on April 02, 2015, 10:40:35 AM
Rock Knight, you're way too accepting of logical fallacies in this series.
I don't see how the idea there there are multiple species of trolls is a logical fallacy. I mean, at one point IRL there were different species of humans, and fantasy fiction has for example multiple species of trolls, of fairies, of dragons etc. I've never had a problem with thinking there were different species of trolls.
Also, in KQ7s' case, all of Etheria is in another dimension, not a part of the world of Daventry, so why shouldn't their trolls be intelligent as opposed to the other games which presents them as brutish at best, feral at worst?
As to your latter posts: I agree on Alexander being an unlikable protagonist.
Cassima being a drama queen? I never really saw her as such, to be honest. But, if she were, logically speaking, she is only supposed to be an 18 or 19 year old girl at most, for one; secondly, she grew up for most of her life as a pampered, probably spoiled princess, the only child of two older parents who were overjoyed to have finally had a child, adored throughout the Kingdom. Suddenly in a series of months, she goes from adored princess to being kidnapped to be scullery girl in a creepy wizard's castle, a creepy wizard who wants to force her to marry him; then is rescued, only to come home to find that her parents died in the months she was gone, that the Vizier she already disliked is basically ruling her Kingdom and then she is thrown into her room and locked there for at least three months, if not more.
The only time I recognized Tony Jay in the game besides being Saladin was Gate. He sounded different as the Arch Druid, and I didn't even know he was the lamp seller until now.
The first parts of it are, but I think the Isle of Wonder was an attempt to maintain some level of family friendliness in what was a very mature entry in a family-oriented series.
Why is the Beauty and Beast homage cheesy?
The voice acting is alright, but also consider the game is from 1992. Voice acting was still in it's infancy in video games.
I agree, but I've never really had a problem with copy protection except in KQ4.
I thought the Dancing Skeletons scene was not only a good change of pace for an overly dark set of scenes, but a nice homage to Monkey Island.
I've never liked Girl in the Tower either, but I always exited the game when the credits hit. It was a horrid song though. But the instrumental versions of it are beautiful.
I never saw Rosella as "badass", because I didn't see much of a personality in 4. Aside from crying, which btw, is something you hate in 7.
And yeah, exactly. Someone else said something similar about the trolls, but you didn't jump them, Numbers.
Why is everyone against Alexander? Again? How is he unlikable?
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on April 03, 2015, 11:50:39 PM
I never saw Rosella as "badass", because I didn't see much of a personality in 4. Aside from crying, which btw, is something you hate in 7.
And yeah, exactly. Someone else said something similar about the trolls, but you didn't jump them, Numbers.
Why is everyone against Alexander? Again? How is he unlikable?
I think it's because Alexander comes off creepy due to his very passsive-aggressive and gentle manner and his being obsessed with Cassima. Have you ever watched the Retsupurae of KQ6?
I have not and don't intend to. I don't watch Retsupurae for that. I watch them for riffing on bad Let's Players.
Alexander certainly has it better than his dad. At least he and Cassie are friends before this (she addresses him as such in her letter). Can you really blame him? He knows Cassima is lonely, and so is he, and things are obviously suspicious at the castle. I refuse to believe he's being a stalker, because I'm pretty darn sure that he would be more sneaky about why he's here.
Like I said in my argument against Cass being a drama queen, "she was being forced to marry a man solely for political reasons, while being forbidden from seeing the man she actually wanted to see again."
Quote from: Rock Knight on April 03, 2015, 09:18:58 PM
Why is the Beauty and Beast homage cheesy?
It's because of that line that the Beast says after he's transformed, something along the lines of "We are all beasts without the redeeming human quality of love," or whatever. That's a whole new level of sappy.
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on April 03, 2015, 11:50:39 PM
I never saw Rosella as "badass", because I didn't see much of a personality in 4. Aside from crying, which btw, is something you hate in 7.
First off, nobody said anything about Rosella being "badass" in this thread. Second off, do I really have to go through the whole thing again about how her actions speak louder than words, and how, even with a character who has only the bare minimum of a personality, it's still possible to derail them completely later on when you try to give them more to do?
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on April 04, 2015, 10:11:02 AM
I have not and don't intend to.
You're doing yourself a massive disservice. They have a lot of good points about KQ6, and Slowbeef has gone on to say that while he doesn't consider KQ6 a bad game, he hates Alexander.
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on April 04, 2015, 10:11:02 AM
I refuse to believe he's being a stalker, because I'm pretty darn sure that he would be more sneaky about why he's here.
Evidently, he needs to get better at stalking.
In all seriousness, I'm aware that the whole "girl in the tower" trope was being taken to its logical conclusion, and how KQ6 is similar to KQ2 in story. It's just that you can get away with it in KQ2 with everything being so primitive and innocent, whereas in KQ6 which is supposed to be more advanced, the real life implications of what Alexander's doing become more uncomfortable. At least in KQ2+, they made it apparent that Valanice was watching Graham from the start and had come to feel the same way about him as he did about her. In KQ6, Alexander and Cassima come off as young lovebirds who don't know what they're getting into.