POStudios Forum

We've heard about Sierra making a comeback, but then a Company called http://blog.theoddgentlemen.com Announced a New KQ9 Project where Two People from the Past came to the Team who are None Other then Roberta and Ken Williams themselves. :suffer:

http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=14100.msg360519#msg360519

Why would they even be there when they said many years ago they are Done with Computer Gaming.

Sure there were Fan Games up to TSL in witch Roberta and Ken never continuously supported Phoenix Online by saying how each Chapter of TSL is better then the last or anything in that standard.

Now all of a sudden out of nowhere they are there seeing Images of KQ9 including a Very Old King Graham.

Does that mean they are interested in making KQ again, could they Help make KQ9 and would you like to see them behind the Throne of KQ9 so to speak.

I think having the original creators working on it would always bring a touch of legitimacy to the project. I personally would love to see them working on it.

I would definitely love it, and I'm glad that they've been included in the process, but at the same time, I think it's exciting that they're passing the torch on, so to speak, to a new generation. I like to think of it in a similar vein to comic books. Obviously, when you have a series where a person like Stan Lee, who created so many memorable characters in the Marvel Universe, was a prominent name in it, you would definitely want him to be involved in future installments of the series. But at the same time, he has opened his creations to let other people interpret them and take them into entirely different directions than what he established, with sometimes amazing results.

Another comic book example is in Disney comics. Carl Barks was THE name for Disney Duck comics from the 1940's to the early 1970's, and he created a lot of names in that universe that are commonplace today. But then came along Don Rosa, who considered himself to be a protégé of Barks, and he took the Duck universe in a fantastic direction, while still paying homage to the works that Barks himself set up.

I see The Odd Gentlemen doing the same thing. I think they definitely have the right mindset behind it, and aren't trying to create some stupid game that has no real connection to the series whatsoever. But at the same time, it's comforting to know that they're trying to include Ken and Roberta in the creative process, so at least they can get some good feedback by the people who created the series.

Talk to you later!

JDHJANUS
Josh

As much as I love TSL, I have to agree. TOG's KQ is probably gonna be up there for best canonical game next to 6. TSL and AGDI's remakes share my top spot of best fan games though.

Quote from: GrahamRocks! on October 29, 2014, 03:59:18 PM
TOG's KQ is probably gonna be up there for best canonical game next to 6.

Somehow I doubt that. Current adventure games are a mess of glitches, bad graphics and extremely easy puzzles. I don't think the new King's Quest is going to be any different.

Tales of Monkey Island. Cognition. Broken Age.

Those are all different. Yet different isn't bad. Just because a game is easy, doesn't mean it's bad. Just because the graphics aren't as good doesn't mean it's bad. You are so cynical, it's unhealthy. Does no game give you joy? Just to play and have fun?

Graphics shouldn't make or break a game for you. Being difficult doesn't equal a good game. And glitches are usually fixed with patches either officially or fan made.

Are you ever happy with anything?

Tales of Monkey Island: weird-looking graphics, and from what I've seen, undoubtedly glitchy and easy.
Cognition: again, weird-looking graphics, mixed reception (especially the final episode) and, while harder than Tales, is still nowhere near as hard as old-school adventure games.
Broken Age: never even heard of it.

I'm sorry, but there is much more bad than good in the current adventure game industry. You've named only three exceptions to the rule, and I still have problems with two of them.

Graphics are, contrary to what you might believe, extremely important, and there are many games that looked promising at first, but were ruined by awful graphics that either tried and failed to be photo-realistic (any Grand Theft Auto game, but especially 5), or were drawn in a style that just plain hurts your eyes (the Sly Cooper games).

Difficulty is also an important factor. No one likes games that can be beaten in two hours (Telltale's Jurassic Park episodes, for instance). Games like the Command and Conquer series, most of the Final Fantasy series, and the Dark Souls series have one thing that most games lack: non-artificial longevity. Unlike short, easy games, you definitely get what you pay for, and that's a challenge. And when you beat the games, you feel like you've earned it.

The problem with arguing that glitches get fixed with patches falls short when one takes into consideration that if the developers did their jobs correctly, there shouldn't have been glitches to patch in the first place. Batman: Arkham Asylum, one of the most complex and intricately designed games ever made, had almost no bugs upon release, and the ones that are present aren't game-breaking.

And to answer your last question...

(https://33.media.tumblr.com/ae6aa556a090a661f298bf42aca1c461/tumblr_n60kvuGupP1tq4of6o1_500.gif)

Hmph! >:(

I'm just sayin', Numbers, here is everybody excited and optimistic (cautiously or not) about this game... and then you come along and are being all negative about it.

Not everyone thinks like you. Some people WANT easy games. Imagine if you will, you come home from a rough day. Would you rather play an easy, relaxing game or would you rather play a nut bustingly hard game, which could stress and annoy you even more.

Hard games are how I unwind from stress. And the hardest game in the world is much easier than real life ever is.

I don't think we'll ever truly see a return to Sierra-like hard games. For better or worse the market just doesn't appreciate that sort of difficulty. Even the 20th Anniversary Edition of Gabriel Knight received a bit of flack for its old-school puzzles despite having a non-intrusive hint system.

I agree with Stika and GrahamRocks. Although old-school difficulty can be pretty fun, with a few indie exceptions, adventure games (and gaming as a whole, honestly) have been moving in a progressively easier direction in the past 15 years. If you look at early text adventure games, such as the "Adventure" game that inspired Roberta to start the King's Quest games, it is INSANELY hard. MUCH harder than King's Quest I. King's Quest VI or Sam and Max Hit the Road are significantly easier than King's Quest I or Maniac Mansion, and modern adventure games like Broken Age (which, since you haven't heard of it, is the game that Tim Schafer (former LucasArts game developer) Kickstarted back in 2012 that started the Adventure Game Revival Movement) and The Walking Dead are significantly easier than King's Quest VI or Sam and Max.

It's the same in other genres as well. Take first person shooters. Games like Halo and Call of Duty, while obviously graphically superior, are significantly easier than Wolfenstein 3D or the original Doom. Final Fantasy X is ridiculously easy when compared to the original Final Fantasy, as is Dragon Quest VIII compared to the original Dragon Quest. New Super Mario Bros U is easier than the original Super Mario Bros, etc.

Yes, the old-school games will probably always be popular with the generation that grew up on them. That's why stores such as GOG, the Playstation Network, and the Virtual Console have old school games to cater to us who grew up with the rise of video games. But it is an obvious trend across the board the 21st century gaming is significantly easier than the gaming of the 1980's or early 90's. I'm sure the new King's Quest will be no exception. TOG are going to be trying to create a fun game that pays homage to the series, yes, but they're also a company trying to make money, and as such, they want to try to reach the widest audience possible. The vast majority of the current generation of gamers don't have the patience to spend 2 weeks trying to figure out one simple puzzle. They'll lose interest and walk away.

Depending on your approach to gaming, it can be a bit disheartening to see the current trend. If you like more old-school difficulty in games, there are several indie development studios that have some more difficult style games. Quest for Infamy (published by Phoenix, and developed by the awesome Infamous Quests), for example, supposedly has a lot of old-school difficulty. I've also heard that J.U.L.I.A.: Among the Stars (a game created by CBE Software) also is a really fun but somewhat old-school difficult game. I'm sure there are a lot of others out there as well.

Talk to you later!!

JDHJANUS
Josh

To be fair, Broken Age didn't come out until this year.

But if I may reiterate what I said to Josh:

I can remember my first adventure games I had were Carmen Sandiego and the Great Chase Through Time (which is apparently a remake of "Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego?") and Nancy Drew: The Secret of Shadow Ranch.

The former I never completed because I got stuck. The latter I completed... years later as I got stuck there at least twice.

I didn't like that. I don't LIKE being stuck on puzzles. I don't like hard puzzles because I don't like being stuck.

People complained that a few of TSL's puzzles were hard (won't say which because it'll spoil things for you), but I didn't find it all that bad. In particular, people hate the last couple puzzles of episode 4. But I didn't. Though I admit, I only knew the solutions due to a Let's Play of TSL, but I didn't mind. I think it was the music too that helped!

I do know we've had people say that they love to be challenged so they actually wanted the puzzles in a lot of our games to be harder... much harder.   :P

There are different kinds of "hard" puzzles.
There are the ones that are hard because they require careful thought. I like those.

Then there are the pointlessly hard puzzles:
-Hard because you have to be in the right place at the right time with no way of knowing what that is.
-Hard because they are illogical and require trying every inventory object on everything in the game until you randomly find the right solution (moldy cheese, anyone?)
-etc.

I don't like those so much.

I think KQ2+ completely nailed it and proved that old-school adventure games could not only be done today, but also better. There was only one really stupid puzzle in it (going to the grandmother's house during the night to get Wolfsbane when the house is completely out of the way of your current path and you would never know to go there on your first playthrough). And Space Quest Incinerations proves that you can forego doing remakes and instead do original stories based on older franchises and still knock it out of the park.

Wolfsbane? When did we get that? I played KQ2+ and I never saw that in-game! The way you killed the lead werewolf was:

Getting the silver needle from the creature in the haystack after giving him the cloth which you get from the birdcage from Hagatha's cave.

Grab the reed by the lakeshore.

Dip the silver needle into the swamp water.

Combine the poisoned needle with the reed to make a peashooter (or do that before poisoning it).

FIRE!!

There's no wolfsbane in the game. Though speaking of that game, did anyone ever figure out what the stake/picket did?

You go to the grandmother's house and get Wolfsbane (or whatever it's called) from under the pillow on her bed. When you get ambushed by the wolves just outside the church, you pour the Wolfsbane on yourself to scare off the wolves. You can kill them with your sword if you want, but you get no points for taking that route.

*Narrows eyes* I don't recall EVER seeing that in-game. But fine. Next time I play it, I'll look for that. Because all I remember finding was the cloak and the ring.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/927708-kings-quest-ii-romancing-the-stones-vga/faqs/40727 (http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/927708-kings-quest-ii-romancing-the-stones-vga/faqs/40727)

Everything is right here (though it is referred to as wolfbane, not wolfsbane). Seriously, consult a walkthrough before you go making declarative statements about a game you clearly haven't played to completion.

Excuse me, but I HAVE completed it! Twice! I'm just trying to get the full score (one thing I think I missed for sure was the meat on the table). Four points short. I used a point list the first time and not once did it bring up that.

Hmph! So you were right. But! There's NO indication I can or need to go back to the house at all! Of COURSe I wouldn't have known that!

Quote from: GrahamRocks! on November 06, 2014, 06:34:25 PM
Excuse me, but I HAVE completed it! Twice!

100% completion is what I was referring to. Guess I should've made myself clearer on that.

Quote from: GrahamRocks! on November 06, 2014, 06:34:25 PM
Hmph! So you were right. But! There's NO indication I can or need to go back to the house at all! Of COURSe I wouldn't have known that!

That's what I've been saying this whole time. It's a stupid puzzle. And it really sticks out like a sore thumb when you consider all the other awesome puzzles in the game, which are vastly superior to the original KQ2's moronic puzzle solutions. "Throw bridle on snake"? King's Quest, you're doing it wrong.

Quote100% completion is what I was referring to. Guess I should've made myself clearer on that.

Ah. Sorry! Yeah, that does help out! Does that give any points I wonder? I know getting the meat gets points, which I know that I've been missing.

QuoteThat's what I've been saying this whole time. It's a stupid puzzle. And it really sticks out like a sore thumb when you consider all the other awesome puzzles in the game, which are vastly superior to the original KQ2's moronic puzzle solutions. "Throw bridle on snake"? King's Quest, you're doing it wrong.

Yeah! And I take part of that back, actually. I knew you COULD go back, because how else would I get the "My, what sharp claws! All the better to..." death message? I just figured that I didn't NEED to go back.

I can't really think of any fairy tales that tell about doing that, but I'm not an expert. There's Brothers Grimm, Hans Christian Anderson, the [color] Fairy Books... it might be a reeeeeeaaaally obscure reference to something (hey, Graham's design and Rosella's and Valanice's names come from not so popular sources iirc), or, it might be referencing a real snake. The name? Bridle Snake. Or it could be referencing the legend of Pegasus in Greek Mythology- he came from the neck of Medusa (who was a Gorgon who had snakes for hair as I'm sure you know) when she was decapitated by Perseus and Pegasus was tamed by a golden bridle held by Bellerophon and they went on adventures together.

Whatever it's referencing, if it's even referencing anything at all, it's way too obscure. It's not as bad as guessing the gnome's name in the first one, but it's still pretty bad.

Quote from: GrahamRocks! on November 04, 2014, 12:17:44 PM

I can remember my first adventure games I had were Carmen Sandiego and the Great Chase Through Time (which is apparently a remake of "Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego?") and Nancy Drew: The Secret of Shadow Ranch.

The former I never completed because I got stuck. The latter I completed... years later as I got stuck there at least twice.

I actually have that version of Time in Dos box.  (It got released under both titles 'Where in Time' and 'Great Chase Through Time.')  I remember getting stuck on the Viking level for awhile until I finally figured it out.  And the Roman pipes on was crazy hard for me too.

Where did you get stuck on that version of Time out of curiosity?

Anyway...back to to original question of the post:

QuoteBut at the same time, it's comforting to know that they're trying to include Ken and Roberta in the creative process, so at least they can get some good feedback by the people who created the series.

Totally ditto this.

QuoteI actually have that version of Time in Dos box.  (It got released under both titles 'Where in Time' and 'Great Chase Through Time.')  I remember getting stuck on the Viking level for awhile until I finally figured it out.  And the Roman pipes on was crazy hard for me too.

Where did you get stuck on that version of Time out of curiosity?

The Inca level. Stupid corn kernels! >:( And this was done before I really started getting into Internet stuff, so the puzzles in each time took me forever! I can remember the first I ever searched for help online was Her Interactive.com forums (the people who make the Nancy Drew games) and it was for Secret of shadow Ranch and I had to open a chest that neither I nor my Mama could figure out. Turns out the answer was staring me right in the face and it just didn't click in my head that 4-9-11 was the angle of the tuning forks.

Huh! DOSBox, eh? So... it's on Abandonia or something, then? Hey, it wouldn't necessarily be illegal since I still have the discs, they just don't work anymore. Like, I put them into my desktop, and I get an error message instead of an install prompt. And yet, Zoo Tycoon 1 and 2 work fine even after a decade! Weird.

I don't think anyone's gonna flip out if you use Abandonia to download an ancient DOS game. There are a lot of old games that are impossible to get legally nowadays, mostly because the game's developers have gone out of business.

Quote from: GrahamRocks! on November 10, 2014, 06:16:19 PM
The Inca level. Stupid corn kernels! >:( And this was done before I really started getting into Internet stuff, so the puzzles in each time took me forever! I can remember the first I ever searched for help online was Her Interactive.com forums (the people who make the Nancy Drew games) and it was for Secret of shadow Ranch and I had to open a chest that neither I nor my Mama could figure out. Turns out the answer was staring me right in the face and it just didn't click in my head that 4-9-11 was the angle of the tuning forks.

Huh! DOSBox, eh? So... it's on Abandonia or something, then? Hey, it wouldn't necessarily be illegal since I still have the discs, they just don't work anymore. Like, I put them into my desktop, and I get an error message instead of an install prompt. And yet, Zoo Tycoon 1 and 2 work fine even after a decade! Weird.

I vaguely remember the Inca level.  I have just started replaying Time and just got past the Mali Empire level. 

Yeah, back in the day, there weren't too many hint sites out there.  Maybe on some internet sites or BBS outlets...but mostly it was hint books that were about the only guide out there. 

Yeah, Dos Box is an emulator and you can use it to play old games.  I have a version that runs old Windows 3.1 to play the Windows games and run my old After Dark Disney screen saver.  :)

http://www.dosbox.com/

seeing as how we're talking about MOE I'll just leave a few images here:


(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/da/4e/34/da4e34be6a27949e9dbb8eda7e5c3287.jpg)
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/a2/08/d1/a208d1d57d20c61ffac53384e24bf81a.jpg)


And yes, I like MOE, but it's also a fun game to pick on... like Cedric

Somebody needs to take a screenshot of the last cutscene in the game, where Connor raises his sword triumphantly, surrounded by Archons...

(http://www.brickpicker.com/forum/uploads/gallery/album_28/gallery_2081_28_99857.png)

...and Photoshop this into it.

Lol, if I remember, I might just do that during the weekend.

We have over 100 images like this over at the Phoenix Pinterest page (http://www.pinterest.com/postudios/caption-images/) too.

Quote from: GrahamRocks! on November 10, 2014, 06:16:19 PM
Huh! DOSBox, eh? So... it's on Abandonia or something, then? Hey, it wouldn't necessarily be illegal since I still have the discs, they just don't work anymore. Like, I put them into my desktop, and I get an error message instead of an install prompt.

You can play CD's and even floppy disks on DOSBox, you know. There is also ScummVM.

Quote from: Numbers on November 10, 2014, 06:57:17 PM
I don't think anyone's gonna flip out if you use Abandonia to download an ancient DOS game. There are a lot of old games that are impossible to get legally nowadays, mostly because the game's developers have gone out of business.

So, if one were to download games like Monkey Island, Willy Beamish, or Full Throttle without ever paying for them to play on emulators nowadays, the chances of getting in trouble would be highly unlikely? A friend of mine suggested that once a company goes out of business, all the company's games become freeware...

Unless the company gets bought by another one. I haven't done the research, but I'm sure someone else owns LucasArts' stuff nowadays. The fact that they remade the first two Monkey Island games shows that they were still getting mileage out of it, and while Sierra no longer really exists, its IP is still owned by another company, hence why you still need to pay money to play any of their games. The games that get put up on Abandonware are generally very obscure. Games like Hacx. Have you ever heard of it? No? Exactly.

The LucasArts stuff is owned by Disney. Generally speaking Abandonia is a good place to check Abandonware Dos games because they make sure to check whether or not someone owns the rights to the games.

If someone does own the rights instead of giving you free a download link, they link you to a store (usually gog) where you can buy the game.

Technically Activision owns the rights to most of the Sierra/Dynamix/Impressions/etc. IPs at the moment. As far as the main quest series, most of them are available for purchase for a reasonable amount on either GOG or Steam.

Disney owns the rights to the LucasArts games, and they have begun releasing them on GOG (and there are a few available on Steam as well).

There are several games still in both canons that are not available to purchase a digital download. While you can download them from Abadonia or other similar abandonware sites, it is still technically illegal to do so as the rights to the games are owned by those respective companies. That having been said, I don't think Activision is going to care, for example, if you download Willy Beamish or Laura Bow from an abandonware site. :)

Talk to you later!

JDHJANUS
Josh

Quote from: JDHJANUS on November 25, 2014, 01:02:04 PM
Technically Activision owns the rights to most of the Sierra/Dynamix/Impressions/etc. IPs at the moment. As far as the main quest series, most of them are available for purchase for a reasonable amount on either GOG or Steam.

Disney owns the rights to the LucasArts games, and they have begun releasing them on GOG (and there are a few available on Steam as well).

There are several games still in both canons that are not available to purchase a digital download. While you can download them from Abadonia or other similar abandonware sites, it is still technically illegal to do so as the rights to the games are owned by those respective companies. That having been said, I don't think Activision is going to care, for example, if you download Willy Beamish or Laura Bow from an abandonware site. :)

Talk to you later!

JDHJANUS
Josh

This discussion brought me memories of the Home for Underdogs. Remember that website? Whatever happened to it?

The site went out several years ago and has been carried on through two new sites. You can read all about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_of_the_Underdogs

I used to visit HOTU all the time back in the day!!! Downloaded ROMs of several older games before they were available on GOG or Steam. :)

Talk to you later!

JDHJANUS
Josh