Sorry, you got me confused... for me, VM = Virtual Machine ;D
Haha! :D
Anyways, yeah, got a few opinions about all this stuff.
First off, keep in mind I'm Catholic, and my mom's a very strict Catholic. So, no sex for me until I'm married, no big deal. I'm a bit distant from the whole sex scene though. No fooling with girls for me, though maybe someday I'll have a girlfriend.
But yeah, I can understand where girls are coming from, I mean, I don't see why ANY girl should be treated as a s***, even if she does happen to sleep around a lot. And guys who force their masculinity on women are just plain wrong. It should be a two way thing, and many people seem to portray sex as a one-directional act (guy gets pleasure from girl, but the girl's just supposed to take it. girls "can't have pleasure" from it all).
Some of the monologues were a bit weird, like the whole "what would it wear" and stuff. But I was really touched by some of those things, even the ones I didn't fully understand. I'm pretty good at putting myself in someone else's shoes, even if they are female. ;)
We had a really good actress do the moan stuff, it was great. :D
And an awesome actress for the "my v***** wants" monologue (cotton panties with a french tickler built in). :suffer:
But yeah, if people do have sex, although it is generally frowned on by Catholics when it's outside of marriage, at the very least it should be a cooperative act.
Storm - VM = v***** Monologues :)
The actress when I saw them on campus was a friend of mine for the "Angry v*****" one, and she was GREAT!! Hilarious and excellent:)
Well, good for you for being open! It's something sadly hard to find with very religious people, I think. Which is sad...I'm techinically Catholic, but I haven't exactly been a practicing one for quite some time. I believe in God, certainly, and even in prayer somewhat....but I just really dislike organized religion, more or less. Most convincing thing I ever heard: "God helps those who help themselves."
And it should most definitely always be a co-operative act!! TO not be is the kind of violation I'm thankful to say I've never had to go through. In my opinion, sex should only be something done with someone you very much care for and trust and love, who feels the same for you. To let just anyone have that experience with you...cheapens what it really means. A Peer Minister on my freshman dorm floor had some signs with a slogan that said something like, "Would you let someone you just met use your toothbrush? Then why would you let them sleep with you?" Or something similar. That was basically the point, though I think it was worded differently.
The "what it would wear" bits are interesting because the idea behind is the v***** representing the woman - so it kind of shows what the women who answered think of themselves in a way. Especially interesting because the answers are all over the place!
I SO LOVE PEOPLE LIKE BUSHIE! god, I believe thats sweet as hell I hope you wont ever find a bad person who will break your heart into pieces, because good people is like that and then end up sour and torn up apart, and they tend to throw away all they believe in, I admit its hardly seen nowdays but I agree with you and I am like you, even though I had bf's before and even know, I do have that kind of standarts of my own.
so it works the total opposite way, if you dont have sex your a whimp, if you dont are sexually active then your simple not anyone nowdays, or either if you have then you are some s***, when it gets to men, Its different you HAVE to do that to be a man or something like thats got anything to do with it.
thats why i think people is so strong about to judge or comment about this kind of things, I respect both sides because noone is a saint and neither you should be forced to be, the beauty of people goes right when you do and stand up for yourself, because is not about what you choose but also about being able to deal with consecuences of our actions.
That I think its the most difficult part about this, its like, what to do? should love be involved? should i care or not? its just a simple human function so why so touchy abuot it? or is it really a sacred union of love?. Everyone has its unique perspective and feelings toward it, and its about acceptance we all could get along with it.
I agree with Bushie about marriage. I was raised in a christian home, as a baptist, and I believe people should wait until they have found someone they are willing to make a commitment to before having sex. I doubt the v***** monologues will be shown anywhere in my area, people in this part of Florida are conservative, which is disapointing, cause I would like to see it.
I do respect very much other people's views about all that stuff, but sheeesh! I'm glad my family is Russian - we never have any of those sex problems....Russians are very passionate people and where sex is concerned, even in the church....they go for it!
And they do, and traditionally, have always talked freely about it(both women and men).
Not that they are sex maniacs or anything like that...just I'm soo glad I don't have all the "guilt complexes" about sex and stuff like that, a lot of my friends have.......their belief is very down to earth.
Ever heard the expression: "been flowered?"
Didn't think so!;)
You say "even in the church", what do you mean by that? That even Catholic Russians still have sex plenty before marriage? Or is sex actually in church??? j/k ;)
My parents are a bit weird about it, my mom's a strict Catholic and is like: "no sex at all! wait!" and my dad is a lot more iffy about it, his is more an issue of sex disease and the more practical problems of sex before marriage (unexpected kids, things like that). I don't have too much of a problem with sex, as long as it's meaningful (ie the two people really love each other and aren't just in it for the sex, there's something else too). But I'm remaining asexual until marriage anyways. It's a lot simpler when there is only one person, not 5 or 10 people that may have been previous sex partners or something. And it's kinda hard tor emain friends if you break up after a very passionate relationship, unless the two people really decide that it was just a passing thing and that all's okay.
Of course, from what I've learned in sex ed, the end results of sex are hardly ever okay.
Sex is a non-issue in my houshold. My parents left that up to sex-ed. Still, Like bushie, I believe it's a sacred thing, to be shared with very few. I'm not against having sex before marriage, as long as it's meaningful, and not just for the pleasure of it.
And Bushie, don't you mean you're abstaining from it until marriage? Asexual means you can reproduce without sex...
Ah, it's a little inside joke. ;)
A bunch of game geeks stay bachelors for pretty much all their lives, yet they don't seem to be going extinct yet. So they are called 'asexual', since somehow they are able to propagate.
;D
Well, I did sort of see it as a joke, but I wanted to make sure you knew what it REALLY meant...
Haha! How could you ever believe that lack of sex will make your balls shrivel! Guys are dumb (most of them). But yeah, they seem to think that (or rather, their balls do)
Oh I'm so sorry to confuse you Oldbushie, it is a delicate topic and I wouldn't want to upset anyone....
The church in Russia is not the Catholic church, but the Orthodox church....Christian, but more ancient...
and as to sex before marriage....Russians don't analyse things like that. Their is no law that states:"no sex before marriage", but the church does not bless it,
And this is not, because they view sex as a "Sin" or something "disgusting" (which, of course it isn't), but, because, if used wrongly it can lead to real problems: (especially if someone dumps you, single mum's, abortion etc..), but they don't analyse things like that, there are not all these rules and regulations that can often confuse people.
If you do it...OH well, that's your choice, and if you don't ...well your marriage is really blessed(all the more fun after the wedding!).:-X
You've only been kissed once? Weclome to the club! I've been kissed a few times before, but from my "almost" boyfriend who was my porm date who didn't seem to be in control of himself even though I told him FLAT out because of all the senior crap that was going on, i was in NO MOOD for anything. He said he understood, the completely ingored what I said after dinner.
So even though We did kiss about twice or so (before th prom), I don't really count him becuase he's a scumbag...
Boo to scumbags!
As for the sex thing....yeah, I think a lot of religion (Christianity) make people view sex as a "sin" and generally a terrible thing, whcih it completely isn't. Yes, there are serious consequences if you aren't careful, and I don't think it's something that should be casual, but something that should really only be shared when you really love and trust someone. In my opinion, it should just be waiting until you're ready, be that before or after marriage. Again, just my opinion of course.
Are Russian orthodox priests allowed to marry? The whole thing with christianity saying sex is bad started with St. Paul, who believed christians should remain virgins. They have all these stupid fairytales about virgin saints in the catholic and orthodox churches, where the young women (and sometimes men) have gone to great lengths to preserve their virginity, strange, they get beaten, tortured and murdered, but never raped! I think the apostle Paul was sexually repressed, he had some problems, he discriminated against women and was rather strict and bossy. As for Jesus himself, well, historians who have done research on the historical Jesus of Nazareth say he may have been married. I think Jewish men back then married in their thirties, the girls were teenagers when they married, Jesus was about 35 when he was crucified, so he could have had a wife, still christians think of Jesus as being pure, so the idea of him having sex is unlikely.
I've been feeling blue because I'm lonely, I wish I had a boyfriend, someone to love and cuddle. Well, I can cuddle my cat, but it's not the same thing!
The whole sex repression thing is a christian invention - in judaism there wasn't anything like monks or nuns, since getting married and having children is one of gods commands (the first one, actually :D).
As for Jesus himself, since he was jewish and at that time people married at a much younger age, you may assume he was married. Wives and daughters often go unmentioned in the bible since they are "unimportant" :P
Haha, and by "unimportant" you must of course mean "we won't mention that part of what really happened because that would undermine all this controversial repressive stuff that we're trying to tell everyone" :P
That's interesting, I never heard about that. I always thought that the whole "no sex before marriage" was a more essential part of Catholicism, not something one person decided. Of course, Jesus never actually told is disciples how to create teh Church, except that it should be used to worship God. And in no part of the New Testament (at least that I have seen) does God dictate how the Church should act. It's mostly from the Old Testament, and that's the same kinda stuff that the Jewish people follow. (Ten Commandments, keep the sabbath holy, and such)
And I agree wholly with Katiehal's previous point, that sex should only be shared with someone you completely trust and love, and that waiting until both of you are ready is important.
None of this "have sex when you get drunk at parties" crap.
oldbushie - i may have asked this before. have you seen the movie Dogma? very interesting movie, i think you'd enjoy it. also, it's akevin smith movie, so it's funny too:)
in my opinion, people who go for the "sex when drunk at parties" thing are looking for something, trying to find somewhere else or in or with someone else, and they can't and won't. whatever they are looking for, is only in themselves, and maybe they're just afraid of it, i don't know. but that's no way to find wahtever it is.
Yeah,...a lot of things in modern Church doctrine can be traced to individuals deciding to impose the ideas. A friend of mine was saying recently the whole idea of no meat for lent comes from the fact that a priest once had family members in the fish industry...now isn't THAT convenient, hmmmm! Also the fact that there were points in time where the position of the Pope was passed down between father and sons....."whoops." I think the idea of priests being unable to marry and women being unable to be priests is extremely outdated myself.
I don't think I've seen Dogma, but I'll check it out. :)
No sex before marrige in the bible applies only to women -
the girl must be a virgin when she marries, otherwise she's "damaged goods", and no one will want to marry her. There's actually a whole repulsive custom that says the girl should keep the sheets on which she and her husband used on their wedding night to prove she was a virgin when she married by showing the bloodstains. Ick :-/
Men can have sex all they want before the wedding, as long as it's not with someone else's wife or fiancee (that's an offence panishable by death, since she's someone elses property).
If a man has sex with a girl that isn't married or engaged, he has to marry her and compensate her father (even if he raped her).
Oddly enough, I've even heard tales/stories/rumors/something of some countries where a girl *can't* be a virgin before she marries and there are actually people whose jobs are to deflower virgins more or less. (not in the raping sense)
Talk about extremes in the world!
I mean, it's easy to understand why, especially in earlier times, it was very discouraged for a girl to have sex before marrying, because the ability to prevent pregnancy was more or less non-existent; which is still a good reason today, but now there are so many more options to protect onself. As they say though, abstinence is obviously the best contraception you can get.
And I think it vaired for men...yes, obviously, they have always been held to not nearly as many expectations as women when it comes to sex & virtue. But there is also a story in the bible (speaking for Christianity mostly here) where a man is punished by God for having sex with a woman but "wasting his seed." (I don't think I need to spell that one out, and I'd really rather not!) Which is where most of that whole thing about any sex that is not for the purpose of reproduction is a sin. Which doesn't make too much sense...after all, if God didn't want us to enjoy sex, why make it pleasurable?
Ugh...::shudder:: I can't imagine being forced to marry a man who had raped me....god, that's horrible. I mean, in a way a just punishment for him, force him to answer the responsibility of his actions, but god, for the woman? That's throwing salt and lemon juice on an open wound.
I finished watching Dogma, it was really really good!!!!!!!
The movie makes a lot of sense in a lot of areas, and I like the explanation of human existence at the end (but don't want to ruin it for those who haven't seen it ;) ). Sometimes the best answer to the Great 'Why?' is the Great 'Because.'
And, on that other topic, I suppose I'd be okay with marrying a girl whose had sex with someone besides me as long as she wasn't some kind of s*** that slept around a ton (or if she did, then it better be a habit that's long gone by the time of marriage). I do have some standards, but I'm not setting impossible ideals here.
I understand that one can only expect to find someone as perfect as themselves, there is no such thing as a truly perfect being (excepting some Saints, but I'm sure even they had a rough day in childhood now and then). But I will only marry someone who's perfect at being herself (a little tricky, too, sometimes so I'll cut some slack).
I read about those laws in the old testament, Dogma is right, the bible is gender biased! That's why I gave up on finding God in the bible, and started looking in other ways. Now about the whole "damaged goods" thing, isn't it men that started the idea? Why is marrying a woman who has had other sex partners considered so repulsive to men back then? What about a man who married a widow? If her last husband was rich, then he'd inherit the money.
I think some men feel possessive, and they feel they really need to own something. They want to be able to 'own' their wife, which is kinda hard if she was already 'owned' by 30 other guys.
And maybe other guys feel that they aren't special, since the woman was so much with other guys, and that the woman is less capable of loving.
Now here's the tricky part: there's been so much equating sex with love that the two seem psychologically inseparable, even though much of sex is devoid of love. Some people don't realize that, and think sex is the same thing as love, so if someone's spouse/girlfriend has had sex with many people, they feel as if there's only a sort of casual love going on. I do think that it's a good idea for real love and sex to go together, since that makes it more meaningful, but one can't really mistake one for the other.
So true OldBushie. It seems that nice guys are hard to find, and are already taken. most of the nice guys I've met have been over the internet. :( I wish I could find a good boyfriend.
In my opinion/view, I think people have sex so very casually because they are trying to find love or fix something taht has hurt them, and in some way or another, they feel like they get love fromt he act, but they don't necessarily. Other people find it as being their way of avoiding true intimacy, by saying they are intimate when it really means something entirely different.
Oh....I wish i'd replyd sooner!
Oldbushie...yes Orthodox Christian priests are usually married. And sex is not looked upon something that is bad or sinful, but actually the opposite. God Himself, made sex a pleasurable experience (orgasms, etc) so it wouldn't be hard to have children, and so men and women are attracted to each other.
virginity is also looked upon as good, but that does not mean that sex is bad. Not every person is meant for virginity.
In the russian Orthodox Church, we know that we have original, unbroken christianity as it was handed down to us from the apostles, and that is why sex (and virginity, for that matter) has never been an issue. But i know there are confused people out there: and most of it stems from christian sects that are not orthodox, or are churches formed after the schism(1054)...and others who are not christian at all, eg: moslems, etc.
I feel sorry for people who have problems with sex, because i know from experience with my friends who are catholic, that they have all these guilt complexes about sex.
As Storm said...it is one of God's commands.
Believe it or not...there are also people out there who don't want sex (though i don't think that's the thing for me) and would rather be virgins, that is why our church lets people become monastics(monks + nuns)....it's because people are sooo different! They must be free to choose. And virginity is never forced on a person...and neither is sex.
And as too all that talk about the bible....there are many different translations of the bible..and the fact is that a lot of the christian ones you get in english are very incomplete and can be confusing and "Protestant". If you can read Greek or Russian go back to the original sources...or you can get an english version that is translated direct from these sources.
Dang!
Well, I do remember that God said to go forth and multiply...
Oh, and what about the problem with multiple wives or whatnot? The Old Testament had no problem, some kings had very many wives. But many of today's societies outlaw multiple marriages, or communal marriages sometimes (in the case of people trying to form utopias). Why is that?
Multiple marriages are seen as wrong by most modern societies, because monogamy is seen as the best form of relationship. If you'll read the bible, having more than one wife created a lot of problems for the men and women, especially the women, they would get jealous and fight, and then bring their children into the fights. Abraham, Rachel and Leah, a lot of disputes were caused by this, and the purpose back then was for having a lot of children, later on with the kings and the harems it was for pleasure.
Polygamy is seen as an accepted form of adultery. In Genesis, one man who first had to wives, became violent and started to kill people. Mainly, this is because it is not fair to the women, who often are the second, third or fourth wife. Who ever heard of a woman having two husbands at the same time? Now I know there are some strange women out there who would not mind being in a threesome, or are not jealous of the idea of their husband having another wife, but most women are jealous. I certaintly don't want my true love to cheat on me. Even muslims today only have one wife, because it is more expensive to have two or four woman to care for, and more peaceful, to only have one wife to quarrel with. ;)
That's true... :)
And as was stated in Fiddler on the Roof, who in their right mind would want to be nagged by 30 wives? (or something like that...)
I don't particularly like polygamies, but it was just a thought running through my head. It must be hard for governments to keep track of polygamies, though. That must be part of it too.
Polygamy is more or less only looked down upon because of society, true, but yes I think it's for good reasons. Speaking from seeing a friend of mine deal with a BS boyfriend who claims half the time to still love his ex and be "polyamorous" (BS alert!!), I don't think that idea would work very well in the current day and age. People get jealous, especially when in love. We don't marry purely for money, etc, anymore, so it makes the idea of polygamy much less sensible or needed.
And, yeah, exaclt y oldbushie...who would *want* more than one wife nagging at him? ;-)
In the "old testement" it's mostly kings or rich people who have more than one wife, because only they can afford to. Kings usually married multiple wives for political reasons
Also, a man could have sex with another woman even if he's married without it being considered adultery, as long as the other woman isn't married :(
I don't know about the new testement's view on the matter, but Judaism got over polygamy - it was later banned by some bigshot rabbi. Technically, there are still cases where the letter of the law in Judaism allows polygamy, but it's considered premiscuity. :-/
In Islam, however, it's still "legal" to have up to 4 wives ::)
I don't think the idea of many wives is good because i'm a girl myself...and i know that if my husband liked any other woman except me I'd be gealous as hell!!!!!!!!!
I would love to get my hands on the original hebrew and greek copies of the bible, well, and english version, since I don't speak hebrew and greek. Actually, I have shied away from the bible because it disturbs me. Too negative. Peasant Girl, do you know much about the history of orthodox christianity? Did they have a period of witch persecutions and burning in the east like the western christians had? I heard of this book, Before the Burning Times, that talks about christianity's relationship with magic.
We all agree that polygamy is bad. I grew up baptist, and read a protestant version of the bible, a lot of the churches I go to keep it simple, they want to stick to he original christian values found in the new testament. In the new testament sexual immorality is forbidden. In Revelations is says that the sexually immoral, those who practice magic, the liars and murderers will not be allowed in heaven.
Of course, then you have to define "sexually immoral." The churches I go to say that you can only have sex after marriage, only with your spouse. That is awefully strict, and I imagine not all christians go by these rules, they apply to both men and women. Adultery, prostitution, homosexuality, incest, and beastiality are all sex sins strongly condemned in the bible. The irony is that I found out that in the middle ages some brothels were actually on church property. Prostitution is a form of slavery, in the past those poor women actually were slaves. Then again, you have some perverted women out there who think is a fun way to make a living. As for homosexuals, well, they amount of hate crimes and murders commited against them proves that some right-wing christian fanatics can be very dangerous. I don't know whether homosexuality should be considered morally wrong, a lot of psychiatrists say it's something you're born with, but you choose who to have sex with, right?
Yeah, I have no problem with homosexuals, but when they start coming on to me I run away. Otherwise I'm not that homophobic.
If that new testament is right though about the whole "sexually immoral" thing, heaven's gonna be pretty lonely... mostly the most religious nuns/monks and the hundreds of people who couldn't get a date if they tried really really hard will be in there; of course, some of those dateless people probably look at pornography, so there goes another hundred thousand.
"First do no harm", I think that's part of the doctor's oath. If sleeping around doesn't hurt anyone else, than where is the harm? But there's always the risk of sexually transmitted diseases. of course, there's condoms and other stuff to protect yourself. I think in today's society, with AIDS and SARS, people are more careful with who they sleep with. At least, if they're smart, they should be.
I don't like all those preachers butting in to people's personal sex lives. If there congregation is fine with abstinence and monogamy, that's great, but they shouldn't criticise the world and call people dirty for enjoying their freedom. A lot of christian organizations are very much against porn, they claim it leads to broken marriages, rape and child abuse. They're looking for someone to blame. I've looked at some porn, it can be shocking, but does that make me a bad person? No, I'm just curious, and I have fetishes like everyone else. God must know that we are sexual creatures, I mean he made us. I doubt that many people will be barred from heaven becasue of there flaws with lust.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dragonstar
In Revelations is says that the sexually immoral, those who practice magic, the liars and murderers will not be allowed in heaven.
Which book is Revelations? the Hebrew names of the books are completely different from the English ones :-/
It couldn't be in the old testement, since there is no concept of heaven there ???
Revelations is the last book of the New Testament, when God shows Peter (?) visions of the end of the world, etc. "Judgement Day" and so forth.
Anyone ever read the Left Behind series of books? Really interesting, though I only read the first two. They're fiction novels based on the Revelations, but not shove-in-your-face religion. INteresting stuff.
I would like to read them, but I have so many books on my reading list tright now, I have to finish those first, especially LOTR. Ach! I'm behind on the books I'm supose to read! (I'm talking about a personal reading list here.)