It's spelled criticism. No z. ;)
Constructive Critism #2...
Graham seems a little fat... Has he been putting on weight ;D.
One I would make is that the Graphics seem to be pretty Computer intensive. lol I thought my 128MB Graphics card running on a Pentium 3 833 would stand it lol, But I had to get on my dads comp to play it lol.
I think thats all though. I really like the gameplay, Cant wait for the game to come on!
Quote from: Petra Rocks on July 30, 2006, 05:21:23 PM
It's spelled criticism. No z. ;)
LOL! Thanks. :P *finds it odd that the verb "to criticize" is spelled with a z, yet the noun is not*
Quote from: TrueCrusader on July 30, 2006, 09:05:08 PM
Graham seems a little fat... Has he been putting on weight ;D.
Yup, he gained a whole new dimension of weight. ;-D
Quote from: TrueCrusader on July 30, 2006, 09:05:08 PM
One I would make is that the Graphics seem to be pretty Computer intensive. lol I thought my 128MB Graphics card running on a Pentium 3 833 would stand it lol, But I had to get on my dads comp to play it lol.
Yikes. What operating system are you using? Windows XP's minimum requirement
is 128MB, so if you're using that and ran our demo, I'm surprised your computer didn't melt. ;P
He said 128 meg graphics card, not 128 megs of ram LOL. :p
There is a big difference heh heh. However that brings up the question of how much ram he has.
:!Oops:
Ok, then yeah, I'd like to know how much RAM, because his video card is more than capable. I seriously hope it's not Windows Millennium that's ruining it for him. :S
I guess this is the best topic to ask such a question, but after playing the demo and use the eye icon on the Daventry coin, it says that that it is a new edition coin whereas the old one has Edward's face. However, the Garaham coin exist in kq6. Is this a continuity error that would be fixed in the future or does the game take place relativity after 6 and 7?
Quote from: doom saber on July 31, 2006, 04:42:54 AM
I guess this is the best topic to ask such a question, but after playing the demo and use the eye icon on the Daventry coin, it says that that it is a new edition coin whereas the old one has Edward's face. However, the Garaham coin exist in kq6. Is this a continuity error that would be fixed in the future or does the game take place relativity after 6 and 7?
Yes, VI and VII and MOE take place no more than a year before the events of TSL, so it's a relatively recent thing. Oh and by the way, welcome to the forums! Come on in, relax, stay a while...We won't bite :P
Overall, it's a very pretty game and shows promise, so kudos for the demo. I did, however, note the following that could be improved on.
The exit hotspots for certain areas (like the town) didn't seem large enough for me to exit the screen properly. I had to position my cursor at specific areas to exit.
There were also a couple of misleading exits, one in the starting room (right side of the screen, where you can't tell at a glance whether you can walk there or if there's a wall), and one at the main gate with the guard dog (left path).
There was no way I could verbally tell the ferryman that I was ready to use the ferry. Clicking the talk icon either showed conversation topics that shouldn't have appeared since I had already proven my identity and paid for passage (he was practically saying "I don't believe you're the king" and "I need money to feed my men, so no"), or there would be no conversation topic except "Goodbye". I found out later that I had to click my hand on the ferry to indicate that I was ready. There should be a "Yes" and "No" option available when he asks if I was ready, as some would think of clicking the talk icon on him to inform him rather than click the hand on the ferry.
I hope it helps.
Can you run the game in Windows ME? THat's the computer I have.
If not I can always run it on my dad's XP :-\.
Same thing for me on the hotspots. Also, if you move the camera too far out or in tou can see outside the building like your inside the wall, and you can't see anything except a green field Graham standing there.
I did like the multiple dialogue options, though,a dn the graphics were very nice.
Wow! Really great feedback! :)
Regarding the exit hotspots (we actually use the term "walk markers"), I agree. The demo orginally had major problems with poorly placed walk nodes, because as we re-exported a scene or changed the camera, the walk nodes had to be redone as well. If they were forgotten to be updated, it would result in hard to trigger exit hotspots.
The good news is that we've redone the walk system completely in the current build of the game. We don't use Torque-defined walk graphs and nodes anymore, we use Maya-defined walk polys and markers. This allows for much more freedom to explore than in this demo where paths are pre-defined, but the tradeoff is that you'll have to dodge obstacles yourself.
It would be most ideal if we could use both walk polys and walkgraphs, but there is a large amount of complexity involved in each, let alone the combination. So chances are that walking will work similar to how the Ferry does on the map, rather than how it is working presently.
Quote from: TheGreatGraham on July 31, 2006, 08:26:31 AM
Can you run the game in Windows ME? THat's the computer I have.
If not I can always run it on my dad's XP :-\.
If you do, you will be doing so at your own risk. I once asked a team member to try out our demo who was using Windows ME and it caused a blue screen. When he rebooted, it said something about a Windows critical security file had been corrupted or deleted or something, and he had to reformat his entire computer.
I don't think our game caused all of that, it's more likely that Windows ME can't handle .NET applications properly. Or, maybe that guy didn't have the 1.1 Framework installed.
In any case, I highly suggest backing up your computer before attempting to run the demo on Windows Millennium, as a safety precaution.
Quote
Yes, VI and VII and MOE take place no more than a year before the events of TSL, so it's a relatively recent thing. Oh and by the way, welcome to the forums! Come on in, relax, stay a while...We won't bite
Actually VI, VII, MOE up to TSL spans about two years, in the TSL timeline.
Remember Alexander and Rosella have just turned 21, and their birthday is in December in the TSL timeline.
So that means the dates between KQ6 and TSL are November 1615-December 1617.
2 years isn't that recent, imo. Sure in geological time its recent. But I'm sure its enough time that Graham would have gotten over his face replacing Edward's on a coin...
Also for a bit of Trivia, also depending on which version of KQ6 you play, sometimes its Valanice head on the coin, rather than Graham's, IIRC.
Additionally it probably should be noted, that KQ6 coin was a "copper coin", where as the one in TSL is a gold coin. So seperate types of currency.
So it may just be that the gold coin is newly commissioned, but previously Graham's face or his wife, or both had been comissioned onto Daventry's copper coins.
2 years in that time, considering they don't have the kind of technology we have now, could be easily considered "recent". It took months to cross the seas, whether now we can do it in one day. Don't forget that.
I think its more a matter that the gold currency seen in TSL was recently commissioned with his face.
Gold is definitely different than the copper currency seen in KQ6, the low denomination. Gold is certainly worth more.
We never saw a Daventry gold coin in KQ6, so there is no idea what was on the face of one at that time.
I think the big question is if Graham has allowed his treasury to start melting down gold from the Chest of Gold just so the kingdcom could have his face stamped on the new gold coins? :suffer:
That could be a good idea, cause i did notice the mouse problem with the thousands of icons didn't happen at all the second time I played it. Of course I probably should check my Graphics card settings and make sure they are set to the most optimal settings to run a game of this magnitude. I think they're still at the factory setting.
I never really meant this to be a general feedback thread, but if the mods don't have a problem it must be all right to proceed. :)
And not to nitpick, but while the lead thread on this sub forum spelling was fixed, the subforum description line in general demo thread wasn't. :)
Another question I have is will the final release support a larger number of polygons? I realize that while the graphics are good, the characters sprites seems a bit outdated comapred to today's standard. It isn't so bad, considering that you guys work hard on this game and that you are doing it for free. So if the polygon count remains the same, I understand.
The polygon counts in the game are not likely to increase that much. The scenes seen in the demo were some of the first so later scenes may contain more detail if we see the engine can handle it. Most likely any improvements in graphics will come from new tricks and better textures.
Some graphical limitations have more to do with the oudated engine than anything else. We hope to improve the engine for part 2 but if we changed it now we'ed never get part 1 out.
Rich
I think the demo looks awesome and hooked me in for the game. I do have a question, when you leave the bookstore area to go to the ferry we're missing the screen with the rose house(Beauty's house). Will that be added later or is it out? You can see the house in the distance of the bookstore.. That was one of my favorite screens it was so pretty.
Awesome job though!! I'm very impressed
Beauty's house was cut because it didn't play a key role in the story. I would have loved to put it in but since there is already so much to do it took a back seat. If we have some spare time we might get around to adding just for the fun of it but its not our top priority at the moment. It might eventually be added in a patch, but no promises.
On the bright side other Isles have been expanded so it sort of makes up for the few scenes we removed.
For those wondering there was discussion at one point about switching to the TSE engine but it was widely agreed upon that we should wait until Part 2 before considering it. This will give it time to become more stable.
Besides even if its a better engine, we would need time to learn how to use all the new functions and it would require even more time to update all the models and graphics to use light mapping and so forth (often this requires modeling a high res version so we'ed have to remodel a lot of things).
We want part 1 out first and foremost, its been a long time coming and we feel its time it sees the light of day. Don't worry it is a trilogy after all, so there will be plenty of opportunies in the future :)
*Wink, nudge* I don't want to nag, but the spelling of criticism in the sub-forum description is still wrong. :)
Quote from: Rick_Florez on August 03, 2006, 08:55:21 PM
On the bright side other Isles have been expanded so it sort of makes up for the few scenes we removed.
Yes. Actually, you could say that we even replaced Beauty's scene with another that didn't make it into the demo, mostly because we couldn't figure out dynamic scene loading back in November. I would actually love to re-add that scene if possible in RC2, but I'll need to check with you and Petter/Johan to see if there were any changes to it since. :)
Quote from: Petra Rocks on August 03, 2006, 08:59:23 PM
*Wink, nudge* I don't want to nag, but the spelling of criticism in the sub-forum description is still wrong. :)
Not anymore! ;P
Oh and I missed this before:
Quote from: Animan on August 02, 2006, 11:34:07 PM
As i understand Torque to operate ... couldn't you simply load the current scenes into the updated engine? It would probably work and provide you more flexibility ... unless the issue is upgrading all of the currebt developers to a newer version?
Actually the whole notion of a "scene" is something our team developed and it is not baked into Torque whatsoever. In fact, Torque's defintion of a scene and isle is what was causing the choppyness/audio bugs/out-of-sync animations in RC1. :P Our modifications are both on a source-code level and scripting level, so it's not just a matter of dropping in files.
I am curious, after the completion of the 3 chapters, are there plans to make add ons like how Sierra was going to make extra missions for QFG5?
Quote from: doom saber on August 04, 2006, 01:29:09 AM
I am curious, after the completion of the 3 chapters, are there plans to make add ons like how Sierra was going to make extra missions for QFG5?
While it's possible to have expansion packs, there's no need to because after the first 3 chapters, will be the next 3 (Part Two: The Two That Are One), followed by the final 3 (Part Three: Eternities). 8)
Quote from: Yonkey on August 04, 2006, 08:45:45 AMWhile it's possible to have expansion packs, there's no need to because after the first 3 chapters, will be the next 3 (Part Two: The Two That Are One), followed by the final 3 (Part Three: Eternities). 8)
I think instead of 3 chapters he meant the 3 games/parts. :P
In that case, no. After TSL we will be diving into original games using our own intellectual property. 8)
Thanks for answering my questions.. sorry I've been away from the net for a bit. But I am looking forward to the full chapter 1.
Just got done with the demo and I am impressed. Was always a big fan of the KQ series and am excited to be playing a new adventure game again. The graphics are beautiful. Alot of good feedback on this thread, I can't think of anything to add that hasn't been mentioned. I appreciate the hard work put into this so that we the fans can enjoy it. You should be getting paid big bucks for work this good. Kudos!
Regarding the graphics, don't underestimate how much you can push those textures. Look at this guy's work on some game characters:
http://www.rendernode.com/articles.php?articleId=218
This is just an example I found. As you can see, textures can really make or break the illusion of detail and complexity. The actual models are not particularly high in terms of polycount, roughly 3.5k tri's. How much tri's are you guys using for your characters on average?
around 2ks, so yeah, they are significantly lower than that 3.5ks :)
2k's? Well thats plenty too IMO. Nintendo 64 games like Zelda OoT, and some older PC games like Quake 3 had far less hardware resources, yet still managed to look pretty amazing.
But im sure you guys know what you're doing. All I'm saying is that textures can really be amazing in faking detail.
Just curious, what texture size do you generally use for characters? And do you keep the head and body in the same texture, or have 2 separate ones?
Both the head and body are on the same texture. The texture size varies, depending on how much detail we need. In the demo, both Grahams are 1024x1024, and all other characters are 512x512. ;D
cool, thanks for the info. I suspected it would be so.
QuoteNintendo 64 games like Zelda OoT, and some older PC games like Quake 3 had far less hardware resources, yet still managed to look pretty amazing.
Zelda OoT is not exactly amazing by today's standards. If you play the game with the higher resolution on Gamecube version the polygons really show, and certain textures look absolutely horrible since they used some shortcuts on the N64 utilizing its lower resolution, and lower draw rate(it had alot more "fog" hiding certain graphic shortcuts). But with the gamecube's higher draw rate and cleaner resolution the textures come out looking muddy and fuzzy. Especially on 2-d graphics on walls such as vines.
That being said sure it looked good when it was released, but graphics have evolved multiple times since then. TSL is on a generation of graphics higher than Zelda Oot.
I absolutely agree. Both Quake 3 and Zelda OoT are nothing amazing by today's standards. In fact if they were released today, they would be considered pretty poor. But in their time they made the very most of the resources they had and managed to pull off some very amazing results with what they had.
Another example is WoW vs Guild Wars or Everquest 2. Even though the latter 2 had somewhat more sophisticated engines, many say that WoW generally looks richer and nicer, despite using a less powerful (perhaps) engine, but having great art direction etc.
Everything IMHO of course.
and having a lot of resourcers we don't have in the first place ;)
See, we can go back and keep updating and updating characters, textures, backgrounds, poly counts, etc, but we don't work like a real company that takes 2 to 3 years to make a game with a full team of resources working 5 days a week for 8 hours or more on crunch time. I'd love to have the team we have at my work so that we could make TSL shine to today's standards.
The sad thing is that we don't. Things are pretty much constrained to our lives, our work and other duties like school. Directors and leads normally put the most time into this, but in the same sense, there are times, like now for me, that I'm in crucnch time at work and have family in town, and Yonkey went back to school to a very hard semester, so things go up and down, up and down. It's never steady, it's never reliable, it's never what we'd want it to be. So, going back to fix characters means time we don't have, and the more time we spend on this, the more outdated it will look anyhow. So, it's a catch 22 situation. We lost our character lead, and we were lucky enough that he could do all the most important characters before he had to take off, and we always could rely on him until his life took an unexpected turn.
So, yes, we could probably do wonders, we do have the talent to do the wonders, we just lack the time.
:)
Quote from: César_Bittar on September 14, 2006, 01:48:17 PM
I'd love to have the team we have at my work so that we could make TSL shine to today's standards.
Um, did César just diss us? :'(
Quote from: TribeHasSpoken on September 14, 2006, 04:35:32 PM
Quote from: César_Bittar on September 14, 2006, 01:48:17 PM
I'd love to have the team we have at my work so that we could make TSL shine to today's standards.
Um, did César just diss us? :'(
Naw... I think he just dissed the people at his work. ;D
hmm, I actually meant that I wish the TSL team had the same working conditions as my team at work :)
In response to the cut scenes, I remember in a gamespy interview, new screens were released with new locations, which I assumed were the isle of the crown. So I believe that the Isle of the crown was expanded a little. I think the market place was expanded wth a few new places. Or am I wrong? Also, I do not know how beauty's house would play a very significant role. Granted, I was surprised by it's absence, but I also noticed the ferry was significantly changed, so I think they modified/deleted/added scenes for the better good. Overall, the demo was great, and I did enjoy the castle of the crown a bit, because we saw more than we normally do. One question though. In the full game, do we explore the basement, like in KQ6? To be honest I always believed the basement in KQ6 was the castle, and just realized around the demo's release that it was the basement... XD
we don't go to the basement :) You probably played the long version of the game (KQVI) in which you go throuhg the basement. In the short ending, you go through the castle itself.
hi, Just finished the demo (patched) and wanted to congratulate you on a job well done!
I did notice although, that there were a couple of minor problem. perhaps with my system if no one else has noticed.
1. the screen just before the crossroads (after you leave the castle) I noticed that Grahm "hops" instead of walks.
2. The Reverb on the Oracle/Grahm's voice in the cave at the end seems too much. I had a hard time understanding what was being said. If this was intentional so to not reveal parts of the final game, the good job, otherwise, perhaps a little less?
I also agree with the prior post that there needs to be a dialogue for riding the ferry. It took me about 20 minutes to figure out how to get on the ferry. ::)
I just finished the patched demo. Awesome work. However, while playing, it seemed that Graham just slid through the entry hall. It might just be my computer, but overall really terrific job.
Hey!
Overall very well done! I loved how you guys just totally recrated the Green Isle, it was pretty much perfect! The only complant I have is sometimes during the dialog, the characters sentences would over lap. Like when you are talking to Edgar's parents in the garden and at the fairy. I have faith you guys will fix this, but I didn't see it mentioned in this thread so I though I would point it out.
Can't wait until the final version!
-Lessa
It's mentioned in some of the bug threads. Don't worry, the actual game will have it fixed. :)
And welcome, Lessa! XD (Calling you Rosella would confuse me to no end.) :P
Quote from: Rosella on April 08, 2007, 12:39:11 PMAnd welcome, Lessa! XD (Calling you Rosella would confuse me to no end.) :P
Lol no problem. Thats part of the reason why I put my name at the end.
-Lessa
Welcome to both Lessa and Angel!
Hello. First, I apologize for the spelling- I stink. Second, this might be the wrong board to post on but I'm new so give me a break, jeez.
I have some thoughts on the demo I'd like to share. First of all, I thought that everything was very nicely done, it's awesome you guys are undertaking a project as bold as this. I think the game has alot of potential and am definatly looking forward to exploring more of the game as it becomes availible. I did find some bugs, which have probably been addressed, but I'll share none-the-less:
The first time I ran the game, after changing clothes, Graham decided to start running in circles and ignoring my requests. I eventually made it back to the two guards in front of the twins' room... Graham was running in circles as the narrator was saying pleasantly, "Graham has more important duties than chit-chatting," like running in circles...
Graham's hat turns pitch black in certain areas, like in the entry way with the beautiful reflecting floors and mirrored stair cases.
The cloak in the garden was invisible to me... but kind of funny watching Graham squatting akwardly all of a sudden.
When opening the door to get back into the castle (by the 3rd guard you come accross), Graham's back was to the door as he pushed it open. Also, talking to the guard repetitively caused Graham to twitch and the crown the flash on the screen.
In the area with the burnt banner, Graham started hovering everywhere after walking down the stairs. Also, the hand icon's function somehow switched into the walking one (he would walk everywhere I touched).
A few suggestions:
1) non linear walking (which I think I read you've changed). The freedom to walk to anywhere was a nice touch in the old KQ games.
2) being able to multitask, such as walking while the narrator is talking. I know you can right click to cancel, but the narrarator has such a lovely voice.
3) there was no option of combining items... is this somethihng you are adding? I remember having to tweak some items in the old to solve some problems.
I guess that's it for now. Keep up the good work, It looks like this is going to be a great game.
Have a great day,
Welcome Doom! ;D
You should download the Patch 2.0 (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/trilogy/index.php?p=RC1_Patch_v.2.0.exe), as it contains fixes to many of the things you listed.
I'm not sure why the cloak was invisible in the garden, and the Graham facing the wrong way when opening the door has been fixed in the current build (I think).
As for multi-tasking, I just tried it now and it seems like you can click the eye on stuff while walking only if you walk to a point first (and the cursor is not a crown). If you click the eye first then try to walk, the narration will stop as soon as you click.
There are a couple of inventory items that you must combine together in order to solve a puzzle. But, they do not appear in the demo.
Thanks again for the feedback! ;D
WOW....i m VERY impressed...really...
i m sure that i could show ur demo to some friends,telling them it's a commercial product instead of a fan game...
I think that Roberta Williams has to be involved in the project too.... ;D
anyway....some little criticisms....
i saw that the game starts without an intro...only the written one...
will this be created in the final release?
in the castle hall,just before leaving the castle,Graham "slides" on ground instead of walking...
some dialogues with the captain hassan has a bad timing....
sometime is impossible to read them...
for now these are my "bugs" which need to be fixed....
but,i repeat....GREAT WORK guys.....
Quote from: irishman on March 06, 2008, 09:44:57 AM
WOW....i m VERY impressed...really...
i m sure that i could show ur demo to some friends,telling them it's a commercial product instead of a fan game...
I think that Roberta Williams has to be involved in the project too.... ;D
anyway....some little criticisms....
i saw that the game starts without an intro...only the written one...
will this be created in the final release?
No problemo :) I just saw the newest update of the intro today. All I can say is it's going to blow you away!
Quote from: irishman on March 06, 2008, 09:44:57 AM
in the castle hall,just before leaving the castle,Graham "slides" on ground instead of walking...
It's a bug the team's been working on that the beta testers just report anytime we see it. But last time I looked, it's getting better/seen less
Quote from: irishman on March 06, 2008, 09:44:57 AM
some dialogues with the captain hassan has a bad timing....
sometime is impossible to read them...
for now these are my "bugs" which need to be fixed....
but,i repeat....GREAT WORK guys.....
Another bug that the team's working on. But each time something like it is reported, they go right in to try to fix is :)
Thanks for your input and I'm so glad you enjoyed the demo. You'll LOVE the game :D