Oh really? In the US the closest thing to a dialect is them people down sowfth talking kinda funny. Or those quic' talk'ing Northerners, depending on which side of the Mason-Dixon line you live on. :P Interesting. :)
EDIT My exaggerated regionalisms led to bad spelling I didn't put in on purpose. XD
Don't forget west coast and central. (mostly northern central.)
Their accents are harder to exaggerate. :P At least, since I come from the North central US, that's what I like to think. :P
Quote from: Petra Rocks on October 25, 2006, 06:28:24 PM
Oh really? In the US the closest thing to a dialect is them people down sowfth talking kinda funny. Or those quic' talk'ing Northerners, depending on which side of the Mason-Dixon line you live on. :P Interesting. :)
EDIT My exaggerated regionalisms led to bad spelling I didn't put in on purpose. XD
*lives in the south*
HEY!
Istud n
on am
o!
Actually, try following the IPA vowel descriptions for American English on Wikipedia sometime... There are many dialects of American English. They are sadly suffering from dialectic diffusion and losing some phonemes (an issue that makes following the aforementioned descriptions even more difficult).
I have absolutely no talent for languages, so I'm afraid IPA vowels mean nothing to me. :-[ And I don't even know the proper definition of dialect, so you probably know what you are talking about when you saw there are many. I did noticed a difference in the way people in the south talk when we were on vacation in NC a couple of years ago, so I'm just talking from anecdotal personal experience here. :)
S'okay.
IPA is the international phonetic alphabet.
You can think of everyone's personal vocabulary and way of speaking as idiolect. Then, dialects are sizable generalized idiolects spanning regions or ethnicities (which may or may not have their own grammars but which generally differ broadly in idiom).
Probably the IPA of some words ending in '-tie' is different in Dutch and Flemish then. And words containing the letter 'a', which they tend to pronounce as a flat 'e' (which is pronunced as the letter 'i' in Dutch). So allow me to have doubts about the Internationality of that PA. 8)
Quote from: Delling on October 25, 2006, 09:59:20 PM
S'okay.
IPA is the international phonetic alphabet.
You can think of everyone's personal vocabulary and way of speaking as idiolect. Then, dialects are sizable generalized idiolects spanning regions or ethnicities (which may or may not have their own grammars but which generally differ broadly in idiom).
Cool...I write in IPA at school all the time, transcribing children's speech...since that's my major :P Anyway, IPA has a symbol for every single sound that appears in the world...even the clicks that happen in African languages. :)
A sampling of the vowels I know:
i - as in "
eat"
I - as "
inside"
e - as in "cre
ate"
ɛ - as in "b
et"
æ - as in "tr
ash"
u - as in "t
oot"
ʊ - as in "s
ugar"
o - as in "c
one"
ɔ - as in "c
aught"
ɑ - as in "w
atch"
ɜ^ - as in "f
urnace" (stressed)
ə^ - as in "fl
irtatious" (unstressed)
ə - as in "
astound" (stressed)
^ - as in "c
up" (unstressed)
But I'll spare ya'll the diphthongs :P
Quote from: koko_99_2001 on October 26, 2006, 07:58:45 PM
Quote from: Delling on October 25, 2006, 09:59:20 PM
S'okay.
IPA is the international phonetic alphabet.
You can think of everyone's personal vocabulary and way of speaking as idiolect. Then, dialects are sizable generalized idiolects spanning regions or ethnicities (which may or may not have their own grammars but which generally differ broadly in idiom).
Cool...I write in IPA at school all the time, transcribing children's speech...since that's my major :P Anyway, IPA has a symbol for every single sound that appears in the world...
well, that's mostly true, but they don't have an entirely perfect vowel system. There are some vowels that are subsumed into the ones they already recognize and marked out specifically by diacritics (though that is not always an entirely desirable procedure). Largely the imperfections that exist for IPA transcription exist because a consensus hasn't been reached yet as to whether or not the other sounds require their own symbols as independent phonemes.
It may not be perfect, even down to individual transcriptions because of the differences in what the listener hears. I am a Southerner, so obviously I'm going to hear Southern undertones in whatever I transcribe. That's part of why it's so important to be as unbiased as possible when you're diagnosing a child...which is what I do btw. I'm making it my life to transcribe people's speech and to help them...that's what an SLP does.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I just know what I've learned...what I've been taught...my own experience. Why do you think there are so many symbols outside of IPA to differentiate deviations from the norm.
Now, I didn't say all of this to get into a discussion. I said it because I know this is how it is. I even have a client from another country who was taught IPA before she moved to the states because it would help her differentiate the vowels (since vowels are the hardest things to learn from a language). How do I know this? Because I see her writing the symbols as I'm helping her pronounce words.
There's definitely not such thing as perfection. Everyone pronounces words differently. Just taking English alone, the pronounciation of words vary greatly with country, locale and era. I have to agree with Cat (especially considering speech recognition is her area of expertise), that there is a symbol which can map to every sound. 8)
In other words, the "you say potatoe, and I say potato" song applies. :P There is no perfect way of saying or even spelling potatoe, because it's dependant on your geographical location, but both words obviously have pretty distinct phoenems.
ɛks-di XD
The issue lies not in transcription. The symbols on the vowel chart all map readily to English and there's very little concern about the majority of wellknown, recognized languages. There are however some small Oriental languages which have distinct phonemes that because they're "close enough" are placed under another symbol that doesn't actually map to that sound. It was my understanding that the people responsible for the IPA were currently debating adding symbols for them.
Anyway, I posted again to suggest that this be moved to my thread as we've deviated a bit from the original discussion of what language Deloria should use in her signature next.
I don't want to debate this any further :) since I don't think it will be fruitful for either of us :)