Yonkey, I would just like to thank you for the very informative journal special. I think it shed a lot of light on some of the work required for the "simpler" stuff you guys have had to do. I'm looking forward to next month's too!
Thanks A3P! ;D I'm glad you like it. :)
I'm sorry to say that while the Journal Special itself is fairly decent (though it's all pretty much common-sense stuff, no 'professional secrets' revealed), I don't think the manner and timing in which it was introduced were the best of ideas.
The Journal Special's stated purpose is to deal with the pessimists and naysayers who come here to complain, but it might have quite the opposite effect: one major complaint those people often make is that most 'updates' aren't about the game's progress but about the forum & fan community (e.g. contests, fannatics etc.) As far as they're concerned this is just another update that tells them absolutely nothing. Another point they might make is that a guide which presumes to tell people how to make a game is better published by someone who, uh, actually made a game.
IMO, the best way of dealing with pessimists, flamers and nags who just drop by to say "it'll never be finished", is to let sleeping dogs lie. No need to wake them up and remind them you exist by sending newsletters that don't interest them - honestly, people outside this forum couldn't care less who won the beta testing contest. If you told them you're actually going beta and recruiting testers, that might interest them because it shows progress. If you told them 3 complete strangers are going to be beta testers in some unspecified time in the future, it will only serve to aggravate them.
In my experience in reading (and sometimes participating in) such debates in this forum, telling people how hard you're working on the game isn't going to persuade anyone who isn't persuaded already. What's worse, those who aren't persuaded usually see that as an attempt to excuse lack of progress.
There's a reason why debates like that are impossible to win (no, not just the one in my sig), so there's no point bothering with anything more than giving the mundane response over and over.
Just my two cents.
Quote from: Storm on January 01, 2008, 05:16:51 PM
The Journal Special's stated purpose is to deal with the pessimists and naysayers who come here to complain, but it might have quite the opposite effect: one major complaint those people often make is that most 'updates' aren't about the game's progress but about the forum & fan community (e.g. contests, fannatics etc.) As far as they're concerned this is just another update that tells them absolutely nothing.
Well, the idea was to show how many intricate parts there are to developing this game. It's one thing to say the plot is 2,000 pages long and x% complete, and another thing to show how and why the plot was developed the way it was. The goal of this special isn't to give a progress report, it's to show how TSL is being developed. :)
Quote from: Storm on January 01, 2008, 05:16:51 PM
Another point they might make is that a guide which presumes to tell people how to make a game is better published by someone who, uh, actually made a game.
The TSL Public Demo is a game published by us, and the majority of content described in the Journal Special is based on material from that game.
Quote from: Storm on January 01, 2008, 05:16:51 PM
IMO, the best way of dealing with pessimists, flamers and nags who just drop by to say "it'll never be finished", is to let sleeping dogs lie. No need to wake them up and remind them you exist by sending newsletters that don't interest them - honestly, people outside this forum couldn't care less who won the beta testing contest.
If the Newsletter doesn't interest them, they are free to unsubscribe from it at any time. The purpose of sending out a Newsletter is to inform people about the latest TSL updates. Yes, there may be people who aren't interested in all the updates, but there may also be people who become interested because of the updates. For example, I've noticed a lot of recent guests checking out the thread with the screenshots, despite them being released 7-12 months ago. :P
Quote from: Storm on January 01, 2008, 05:16:51 PM
If you told them you're actually going beta and recruiting testers, that might interest them because it shows progress. If you told them 3 complete strangers are going to be beta testers in some unspecified time in the future, it will only serve to aggravate them.
I believe I wrote: "There will be another Beta Testing contest held later this year open to everyone." Also, the winners are hardly "complete strangers". I mentioned they're TSL Fannatics... and people interested in knowing what a Fannatic is would click the link on the Home page that says "Fannatic" on it. From there, they'd discover who these 3 are, if they were that jealous, of course. ;P
Quote from: Storm on January 01, 2008, 05:16:51 PM
In my experience in reading (and sometimes participating in) such debates in this forum, telling people how hard you're working on the game isn't going to persuade anyone who isn't persuaded already. What's worse, those who aren't persuaded usually see that as an attempt to excuse lack of progress.
The special itself wasn't solely intended for the 4 or 5 people that whine about lack of progress. It was more for the 3700+ people that would actually appreciate it.
There are many people in this world that mock/insult things they simply don't understand. This special gives them a unique opportunity to understand, and will hopefully make them at least think twice, before saying something completely ignorant. ;P
Quote from: Storm on January 01, 2008, 05:16:51 PM
There's a reason why debates like that are impossible to win (no, not just the one in my sig), so there's no point bothering with anything more than giving the mundane response over and over.
Just my two cents.
Personally, I've gotten sick of saying the same things over and over, to the point where I can't even be bothered to read their rants anymore. They provided me with the
motivation to do the special, but they're not the reason
why I'm doing it. 8)
Quote from: Yonkey on January 01, 2008, 09:19:45 PMWell, the idea was to show how many intricate parts there are to developing this game. It's one thing to say the plot is 2,000 pages long and x% complete, and another thing to show how and why the plot was developed the way it was. The goal of this special isn't to give a progress report, it's to show how TSL is being developed. :)
That's my point - you're not giving a progress report and you're not really saying anything new about the game, which is what most ranters are ranting about.
Quote from: Yonkey on January 01, 2008, 09:19:45 PMQuote from: Storm on January 01, 2008, 05:16:51 PM
Another point they might make is that a guide which presumes to tell people how to make a game is better published by someone who, uh, actually made a game.
The TSL Public Demo is a game published by us, and the majority of content described in the Journal Special is based on material from that game.
It's not me you have to convince here, I was just pointing out what some people might say ;)
Quote from: Yonkey on January 01, 2008, 09:19:45 PMIf the Newsletter doesn't interest them, they are free to unsubscribe from it at any time. The purpose of sending out a Newsletter is to inform people about the latest TSL updates.
Most non-forumers subscribe to the newsletter so they can get updates about the game, not about what's going on in the website and the forum. Sure, they can unsubscribe, but then the newsletter will be defeating its own purpose, which is to keep people updated even if they don't want to keep checking the TSL site & forum.
Quote from: Yonkey on January 01, 2008, 09:19:45 PMYes, there may be people who aren't interested in all the updates, but there may also be people who become interested because of the updates. For example, I've noticed a lot of recent guests checking out the thread with the screenshots, despite them being released 7-12 months ago. :P
That only goes to prove my point – people want to see if there are new screenshots released. Since there aren't any, their next stop will be ranting on the feedback forum ;P
Quote from: Yonkey on January 01, 2008, 09:19:45 PMI believe I wrote: "There will be another Beta Testing contest held later this year open to everyone."
Ahh, but people want dates! Saying "there will be a public beta testing contest in the foreseeable future" isn't really news worthy of a newsletter. It didn't even get a headline. Saying "public beta testing contest opens today!" is something people are more likely to be interested in.
Quote from: Yonkey on January 01, 2008, 09:19:45 PMAlso, the winners are hardly "complete strangers". I mentioned they're TSL Fannatics... and people interested in knowing what a Fannatic is would click the link on the Home page that says "Fannatic" on it. From there, they'd discover who these 3 are, if they were that jealous, of course. ;P
Of course they are no strangers to us ;) But you do have to consider that most people, and TSL bashers in particular, aren't really interested in knowing who and what the fannatics are.
Quote from: Yonkey on January 01, 2008, 09:19:45 PM
The special itself wasn't solely intended for the 4 or 5 people that whine about lack of progress. It was more for the 3700+ people that would actually appreciate it.
It might very well be that 3700+ people would enjoy the journal special, but your expressed purpose (stated in the journal) is to show those 4-5 whiners why it's taking so long. My point is that your efforts will be lost on them.
Quote from: Yonkey on January 01, 2008, 09:19:45 PMPersonally, I've gotten sick of saying the same things over and over, to the point where I can't even be bothered to read their rants anymore. They provided me with the motivation to do the special, but they're not the reason why I'm doing it. 8)
Oh come on, it's not that bad! Look at the bright side of it – if people bother coming here and rant (even if they are offensive and insulting), it means they still care. I'd hate to see the day people give up asking "when will it be done?" (or saying "It will NEVER get done! I feel it in my bones") :P
Quote from: Storm on January 02, 2008, 03:59:11 PM
That's my point - you're not giving a progress report and you're not really saying anything new about the game, which is what most ranters are ranting about.
You're forgetting that even if it was a progress report and said something new about the game, ranters would still rant because the game is not out. As I said before, the purpose of the special wasn't to please whiners. If it does, then that's great, but the special is intended for people that would actually appreciate reading it. :)
Quote from: Storm on January 02, 2008, 03:59:11 PM
Most non-forumers subscribe to the newsletter so they can get updates about the game, not about what’s going on in the website and the forum. Sure, they can unsubscribe, but then the newsletter will be defeating its own purpose, which is to keep people updated even if they don’t want to keep checking the TSL site & forum.
I think the only time I sent out a Newsletter that actually talked about the game itself was when the VU incident happened. Every other Newsletter talked about website-related updates, events and/or contests. The Newsletter itself does keep people updated & informed. It's simple: people that find the news interesting will visit the site, and people that don't, won't. :scholar:
Quote from: Storm on January 02, 2008, 03:59:11 PM
That only goes to prove my point – people want to see if there are new screenshots released. Since there aren’t any, their next stop will be ranting on the feedback forum ;P
Ranters will always find something to rant about. It's their job. If they didn't have anything to complain about, they might lose their reputation. :P
Quote from: Storm on January 02, 2008, 03:59:11 PM
Ahh, but people want dates! Saying “there will be a public beta testing contest in the foreseeable future” isn’t really news worthy of a newsletter. It didn’t even get a headline. Saying “public beta testing contest opens today!” is something people are more likely to be interested in.
Heh, of course it's something they're more likely to be interested in, but the only date they'll be getting at this point in time is: :suffer: Obviously, I'd send out a Newsletter the day the public beta testing contest opens. But that day is not today. :P
Quote from: Storm on January 02, 2008, 03:59:11 PM
Of course they are no strangers to us ;) But you do have to consider that most people, and TSL bashers in particular, aren’t really interested in knowing who and what the fannatics are.
If they're not interested in knowing who and what they are, they shouldn't be aggravated by them winning either. :P
Quote from: Storm on January 02, 2008, 03:59:11 PM
It might very well be that 3700+ people would enjoy the journal special, but your expressed purpose (stated in the journal) is to show those 4-5 whiners why it’s taking so long. My point is that your efforts will be lost on them.
Actually, the effort isn't lost on them because the special
does answer the question "why is the game taking so long?". The question the Special
doesn't answer is "how far along are you?". However, the purpose of the special wasn't to answer that second question anyway. That should have been obvious from the title of the special.
Quote from: Storm on January 02, 2008, 03:59:11 PM
Oh come on, it’s not that bad! Look at the bright side of it – if people bother coming here and rant (even if they are offensive and insulting), it means they still care. I’d hate to see the day people give up asking “when will it be done?” (or saying “It will NEVER get done! I feel it in my bones”) :P
Well, they could easily show their care in a non-offensive manner if they chose to. Or better yet, they could show they care by actually
listening to what we've been telling them over and over again. Being offensive only increases their chances of getting banned. :P
Entry #2 in the Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special/) entitled "The Big Picture" has now been posted! ;D
Ooh the hall looks amazing !!!. These are very interesting to read too :D
Thanks Tessy! ;D Yeah, the Main Hall is pretty nice. I actually hadn't seen the final in-game set before, until I took that screenshot! XD
All of your stuff is very good. Keep up the good work!
You shouldn't worry too much about the people that complain you're taking too long. They just don't understand what is put into making a game. You guys are creating quality work here.
Can't wait until it's finished though.
Oh!!! I can't wait to see the main hall in game!!!
I haven't gotten that far yet! Gosh, I can't wait to see the new scenes :D
Thanks Connway! ;D
That particular scene appears in Chapter 2, and is one of my personal favourites. :) There are also a few different camera shots within that scene that reveal the set in more detail.
These journal entries are lovely. It's so nice to see such designs come to life, if only on screen. I'm looking forward to seeing more.
Wow, the effort put into these scenes is incredible! I can't believe you guys actually drew out three different pictures (in colour, no less) of the dock and ferry before modeling it.
Considering that this is just the art department, no wonder the game has taken a while to come out!
Keep up the good work, and take your time.
*Ducks blows from impatient fans*
Excellent work, guys! Everytime I see new stuff I get more and more excited ;D
I haven't gotten to the Isle of the Beast yet either. I'm currently breathing down the Oracles' cutscene-neck, but exited every time to refine a bug report.
The quality of the graphics IS quite amazing, and I'm running at a near full-screen resolution. (Won't do full-screen, as I'd have to Alt-Tab to switch from that window to the bug reporting tool-window).
I really like seeing how the video game creation process goes. :D It's very educational! :D
Lucky beta-testers... Wow, I love these entries! Keep them up, Neil! They're very informative!
This month's entry is far FROM weak - those screenshots, and even more so the sketches too, look AMAZING!
Quote from: copycat on February 03, 2008, 04:29:59 PM
I haven't gotten to the Isle of the Beast yet either. I'm currently breathing down the Oracles' cutscene-neck, but exited every time to refine a bug report.
The quality of the graphics IS quite amazing, and I'm running at a near full-screen resolution. (Won't do full-screen, as I'd have to Alt-Tab to switch from that window to the bug reporting tool-window).
XD I haven't exited the castle yet! I keep finding things! I need to try Alt-Tabbing, 'cuz if I press the windows key the game crashes and I can't get back in.
Quote from: awesomeasapossum on February 04, 2008, 02:44:00 PMXD I haven't exited the castle yet! I keep finding things! I need to try Alt-Tabbing, 'cuz if I press the windows key the game crashes and I can't get back in.
The Windoze key is evil, stay away from that and only use it as a last resort! Why are you running full-screen? However, are you SURE those things you find haven't been reported yet? I've been a long time in the Castle too and filed numerous bug reports. 8)
Thanks all! I'm glad you guys are liking the entries so far. ;D
Quote from: MangoMercury on February 04, 2008, 01:00:32 PM
This month's entry is far FROM weak - those screenshots, and even more so the sketches too, look AMAZING!
XD Well, the "weak/character" thing was just a pun for the next entry. ;B I actually really enjoyed looking through past artwork and seeing all the phases.
And yeah, like CC, I usually play the game in windowed mode rather than fullscreen, since it makes it easier to switch between windows.
Mine's in windowed mode as well...that's how it opened up for me. And, while it runs slow (I REALLY need to upgrade from my 256 RAM!), I'm able to easily jump to the search screen, check for the bug, and then report the new one. Then, right back I go. BUT...don't let me jump screens while the next scene is loading...I'll be lucky to get the scene loaded!
By default it opens windowed too, but I 'upped the ante' (read: resolution) graphics-wise, to see if that meant the graphics got more choppy, since they would be stretched but they most certainly did nothing of the sort! :D
BTW, I have 512 MB RAM. Got ample loading times on a new scene too.
Yes, you should get your memory upgraded if you have all those issues.
I like full screen, but I have problems getting back into the game after that, so from now on I'll be doing windowed, but use a higher res setting.
Wow, you Beta-testers are really lucky... I can't wait for the next entry in this special! I really want to see what character design will be like (thats what I assume the pun at the end hinted towards). I really enjoy reading these special entries (besides, there's the possibility of new screenshots that weren't previously released... XD) and it's really insightful for me should I attempt to make a game.
This all makes me very excited! I feel the actual game getting closer and closer to everyone playing it! And yes, the beta testers are SO lucky! Im jealous :p
Well, you'll soon have the chance to BECOME a beta-tester yourself. This year, TSL will be holding a public contest for anyone in the community to participate in for the chance to become a beta-tester. The Fannatics got an early chance, but the public will get their turn as well. Fret not, for the public's time will come, soon enough... This info has been publicly stated, so I'm not spilling any private stuff here. I can't divulge more info than that, because I have no more. All we know is that this year sometime the public will get their chance.
Yes. Very soon. 8)
And, I just noticed today that the entries were looking pretty hideous in IE. :P I've now fixed it so that people with IE see them the same way Firefox users do. :)
I haven't used IE in years. But it's great to fix them so that people using other browsers can view them correctly! I have a strange feeling that contest will be next month... When it's announced, I'll be sure to post it in the facebook group... Now, I just need my parents permission to participate...
Quote from: Yonkey on February 25, 2008, 09:10:34 PMAnd, I just noticed today that the entries were looking pretty hideous in IE. :P I've now fixed it so that people with IE see them the same way Firefox users do. :)
Serves people right for using IE to browse. IE is evil's spawn! :suffer:
PS: Are you sure, it's
exactly the same? IE has some serious quirks in how it handles W3C-compliant content, methinks. At least, I think that's what I remember reading some time ago, but me memory mishmashes things frequently so that may be way off. ::)
It should be. I normally use Firefox, so I didn't notice, but before the font sizes were wrong, the dotted lines had chunky dots, some captions were beside images... basically, it just looked horrible. :P
All those things are now fixed. It still may not look exactly as it does in Firefox, because the text justification is slightly different, but it's way better than before. 8)
I stopped using IE when I heard about Firefox. I jumped on the Firefox ship as soon as I could. I now no longer use IE. I use it only as a last resort (I have many browsers on my comp, but the main two I use are Firefox and Opera. Opera is actually a really cool browser...) But only a few more days until the third installment in the journal special is released!
Likewise, I too only use IE as the last resort, when all else has failed. 'All else in this instance, consists of FireFox in SuSe Linux9.2, FireFox in Kubuntu Feisty Fawn and FireFox in Windows XP Home, in that order.
Wow, it's been almost a whole month since Entry 2 was added, it seems much less. How time flies...
However, something better is about to happen in the next few days: [spoiler]Chapter two should be ready for the Beta Testers to have a crack at![/spoiler]
Lucky beta-testers... Well, soon the public will have their chance to beta-test! The contest I assume is going to be happening soon... And I hope it does! Now I just need parental permission. I hope my dad gives in this time...
Entry #3 in the Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special/): "Know Your Role" has now been posted! ;D
I loved it! Great work Neil! I can't wait for next months! I hear it's really orchastrated well! XD (yes, I realize I spelled it wrong... XD ROFLOL)
Very nice! I especially liked the observations about characters at the end... the royal family has certainly done a whole lot of "mooching" in its days. :P
Thanks guys! ;D
I've found these entries to be a whole lot of fun to read. It gives you a real insight into the development of the game. They're always interesting!
QuoteAcademy Award-winning actress, Jennifer Connelly, who was a perfect insipration for the role.
Never heard of her. ;B
PS: See if you find the spelling error. :scholar:
QuoteCassima respectfully declined our request to do any kind of nude modeling.
Ah, shoot. :P
BTW, nice entry! ;)
Quote from: copycat on March 02, 2008, 04:26:55 PM
PS: See if you find the spelling error. :scholar:
Wow, that's pretty hard to spot even with your quote! :o Thanks for spottin' it, and it's now fixed. 8)
I didn't even notice a spelling error... Wow, I must've been really into the special then to not have noticed the spelling error.
Quote from: Yonkey on March 02, 2008, 10:24:17 PMWow, that's pretty hard to spot even with your quote! :o Thanks for spottin' it, and it's now fixed. 8)
Haven't you noticed all the issues I've been posting about differences between the transcripts and the spoken words? Told you I had an 'eye for detail'! 8)
Anyhoo, wasn't me who spotted this one, it was FireFox's In-line Spell Checker. ;D
Kudos on picking the stunning Jennifer Connelly! It was an interesting read. The 3D model of Cassima looked great too! Keep up the good work guys.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, Dangling. ;D
Entry #4 in the Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special/): "The Hills Are Alive..." has now been posted! XD
aww, no paragraph written in 1337 HaXz0r format? :P
on another note, I am in love with "Valanice Sleeps" orchestrated version :sweetheart:
Quote from: Lenny318 on March 31, 2008, 09:55:23 PM
aww, no paragraph written in 1337 HaXz0r format? :P
LOL, sorry no. Maybe next time... or never. :P
Quote from: Lenny318 on March 31, 2008, 09:55:23 PM
on another note, I am in love with "Valanice Sleeps" orchestrated version :sweetheart:
Same here, I like how certain parts sound like they're from a musicbox or something. :)
The music is absolutely wonderful - loving it!
Some of it was familiar...some not. I'll have to listen more carefully :)
Cool, lovely music by the way. ;)
Quote from: koko_99_2001 on April 01, 2008, 06:19:51 AM
Some of it was familiar...some not. I'll have to listen more carefully :)
I know, I'm always sad when scenes DON'T have music.
Great music, great entry!
Yay! More music to add to my KQ playlist <3
Quote from: awesomeasapossum on April 01, 2008, 06:57:05 AM
I know, I'm always sad when scenes DON'T have music.
Great music, great entry!
You can blame Cesar for that. XD He
still hasn't sent me a list of what song goes with what scene. :P
Yay! I like blaming Cesar! :P
Especially after he suffer-ed me via email. That was demoralizing.
Or was that you Yonkey? :pokerface:
Either way...it was demoralizing!
:suffer:
GRRR! *is still pondering puzzles with A3P*
I think that TSL Main Theme version 6 sounds a lot like Howard Shore's LOTR music. :)
Quote from: koko_99_2001 on April 01, 2008, 06:36:43 PM
GRRR! *is still pondering puzzles with A3P*
We'll figure them out. Eventually.
Yes, yes we will. But without the help of the team...they just go: :suffer: ::)
Quote from: koko_99_2001 on April 02, 2008, 06:53:26 AM
Yes, yes we will. But without the help of the team...they just go: :suffer: ::)
Well, we can make them suffer by reporting more bugs. :P ...Oh wait, that's what they want us to do.
Of course, we could make them suffer by NOT reporting bugs...
but then the forumers would kill us :P
Nice music.
Forumers killing us? No violence! :o :suffer:
Quotebut then the forumers would kill us
Arn't you pretty much the epitome of a TSL forumer, Koko?
I don't think forumers would kill their own kind. A house divided, and all that. You have nothing to fear, I am certain. ;D
lol. I just meant that they'd be upset with us for not beta testing, and thus the game taking much longer to be released :P
Oh lord, please find the bugs. I would help if I could but I really don't have that much time. Please do all of us that can't Beta Test. :)
I've just updated the Journal Entry's: TSL Main Theme, orchestrated version of Valanice Falls, and the mastered version Beauty and the Beast, to use the final mastered versions.
There's a subtle, but appreciable, difference from the previous ones I had used. 8)
Quote from: Yonkey on April 05, 2008, 01:19:05 PM
There's a subtle, but appreciable, difference from the previous ones I had used. 8)
I'm glad that someone else appreciates the subtleties in a video game's score. *pulls out bubble pipe and looks refined* :scholar:
Yey more music stuffs!!! Oh how you spoil us, Yonkey. :)
If you based Cassima's design on Jennifer Connelly and since we've already seen Graham a hundred times who's he based upon? Guesses anyone?
We don't really need to guess... he's based on Harrison Ford :scholar:
And as far as my senility goes, Valanice is somewhat based on Julianne Moore and Edgar is based on the late Heath Ledger. I can't remember who Alex and Rosella are based on, maybe they're not based on anyone in particular.
Quote from: Storm on April 06, 2008, 03:26:39 PM
We don't really need to guess... he's based on Harrison Ford :scholar:
And as far as my senility goes, Valanice is somewhat based on Julianne Moore and Edgar is based on the late Heath Ledger. I can't remember who Alex and Rosella are based on, maybe they're not based on anyone in particular.
Don't know about Rosella, but for Alexander:
QuoteThis is again, another original. He was supposed to be based from Joaquin Phoenix (villain in Gladiator), but he turned into an original.
(Posted on: April 06, 2008, 05:55:04 PM)
Found another post of Michael Fortunato's that says Rosella was completely original.
Can these people sue you for using their pics?
Quote from: Haseth on April 06, 2008, 09:28:19 PM
Can these people sue you for using their pics?
I don't think so, since they only used them as general reference... it's not like they actually put their pics in the game.
Yeah, I wouldn't think so either, since the final result doesn't look 100% like them either. The actors/actresses were basically used to inspire the concept design, but from there they changed quite a bit.
What about Trogdor? The Brother Chaps could sue, you know. ::)
gah, FATALI, I thought Yonkey was talking to himself.
I doubt Trogdor would be in the final game. :P ...or the Bros. Chaps might very well have given permission.
Quote...or the Bros. Chaps might very well have given permission.
Nah. TSL and Bros. Chaps are in direct competition. Ever play Peasant's Quest? :P
I have... but I don't really see it as competition. :P I know that the Bros. Chaps have an okay working relationship with the people at nuklearpower (Brian Clevinger et al.); they seem amiable enough to the web community at large (of which TSL is a member).
Quote from: FataliOmega on April 08, 2008, 10:37:41 AM
What about Trogdor? The Brother Chaps could sue, you know. ::)
If anything, they should be happy to have TSL plugging their games :P
Of course. I'm just saying we wouldn't want Cesar Burninatored, or anything.
Play with Trogdor, and you are BURNINATED! ::)
I'm glad Jauquin Phoenix didn't end up how Alexander looks, I don't like that actor's look, personally. No offense to him. I think the only part I've really liked him in was Johnny Cash.
Quote from: Delling...or the Bros. Chaps might very well have given permission.
Quote from: FataliOmega on April 08, 2008, 05:05:07 PM
Nah. TSL and Bros. Chaps are in direct competition. Ever play Peasant's Quest? :P
Quote from: Delling on April 08, 2008, 05:17:01 PM
I have... but I don't really see it as competition. :P I know that the Bros. Chaps have an okay working relationship with the people at nuklearpower (Brian Clevinger et al.); they seem amiable enough to the web community at large (of which TSL is a member).
Ummm... I think FataliOmega was joking.
For those wondering, Journal Entry #5 got a bit delayed because April was a pretty hectic month. Hopefully, it'll get posted sometime tomorrow.
Quote from: Yonkey on May 03, 2008, 12:41:24 PM
For those wondering, Journal Entry #5 got a bit delayed because April was a pretty hectic month. Hopefully, it'll get posted sometime tomorrow.
Thank you for the update. I was looking for it today too! :)
It's actually going to be a pretty good one, once Mike sends me something... 8)
Quote from: waltzdancing on May 03, 2008, 03:03:40 PM
Thank you for the update. I was looking for it today too! :)
Me three! :P
The next entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special) is now posted. This month's entry entitled "Figure of Speech", describes the design process behind character voices. The entry features various sound clips and the audition video for TSL's King Graham. Enjoy! ;D
"that even to this day people comment on how annoying some voices were to listen to while playing."
XD I had a laughing fit at that which almost resulted in milk all over the place
The oracle sequence with SFX was cool :D
Looking forward to the next one. Code! :D
Horray I've been waiting for this one and I love it! :D
Had I not been so young (and oblivious to this website) back in 2004, I would have been one of the 300 people to submit online auditions *sigh* o well I'm sure everyone sounds super awesome! ;)
I LOVE the audition clip! Mr. Jason Victor... WOW! Those were incredible reads, both of those were cold readings? Geez. :o
Awesome entry, as always! And now I know what SFX means... :P *goes to update a bug* XD
I only noticed it yesterday, when the 'News'-ticker caught my eye, as I keep forgetting about this thing. So I surely wasn't waiting for it nor was I aware of it being late. Sometimes, having a forgetful mind can leave you with wonderful ignorant bliss. ;D
Quote from: tessspoon on May 04, 2008, 05:57:10 PM
XD I had a laughing fit at that which almost resulted in milk all over the place
:P I didn't want to mention any names, but I think we all know which characters have excruciating voices. XD
Quote from: Lenny318 on May 04, 2008, 06:32:20 PM
I LOVE the audition clip! Mr. Jason Victor... WOW! Those were incredible reads, both of those were cold readings? Geez. :o
I believe so. Unfortunately, I wasn't there when they had them, so this is the first time I've seen Jason's audition as well. ;D
Quote from: koko_99_2001 on May 04, 2008, 08:06:16 PM
And now I know what SFX means... :P *goes to update a bug* XD
All this time you didn't know?! XD Actually, speaking of bugs... I noticed those cool voice SFX from the Oracle Sequence were present in the Public Demo, but no longer exist in the current build. The echo is there, but the actual sounds seem to be missing. It was all in one large audio file back then, and now it's separated, so that may have had something to do with it.
Quote from: Yonkey on May 05, 2008, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: tessspoon on May 04, 2008, 05:57:10 PM
XD I had a laughing fit at that which almost resulted in milk all over the place
:P I didn't want to mention any names, but I think we all know which characters have excruciating voices. XD
I think it's even funnier that way than if you'd referenced by name XD
Why am I hearing the Oracle saying 'twisted into paz that never end'? :P
Great audition clip! :D Had my job not bound me to this country at that time, I would have come to those live auditions as well. Not that I would've gotten a part of course... ::)
I know I'm probably the only one whom the grammar mistake in the oracle's voice clip bothers. XD It's otherwise a very nice entry. :)
Quote from: Deloria on May 17, 2008, 08:16:52 AM
I know I'm probably the only one whom the grammar mistake in the oracle's voice clip bothers.
You're not. :P
What's the grammar mistake? ???
It should be "seek him", not "seek he". :P
Quote from: Deloria on May 18, 2008, 05:48:05 AM
It should be "seek him", not "seek he". :P
XD *worships*
As in: "I cannot help your further mortal, but there is one who may. Seek him who rules the Isle of the Mists"? It doesn't quite sound right to me though, since she never actually named the guy.
Quote from: Yonkey on May 18, 2008, 06:46:15 AM
As in: "I cannot help your further mortal, but there is one who may. Seek him who rules the Isle of the Mists"? It doesn't quite sound right to me though, since she never actually named the guy.
Neil, you are right on this one. People get he vs. him incorrect all the time. It should be "seek he..." You can always tell by removing the extra words. For example, "him rules the Isle of the Mists" is obviously wrong, whereas "he rules the Isle of the Mists" is obviously right. The reading in the game is correct.
Technically "who rules the isle of mists" is an attribute to the object, so we leave it as it is. :P If it were a full sentence, then it would, of course, be: "He who rules the isle of mists", but "he", in this context, is meant to be an object (and "he" obviously cannot be a object, being nominative). There can't be two subjects in the same sentence in this instance. XD
Would you say "seek him" or "seek he"?
"Seek" here is an imperative, so the subject is hidden, so to speak, in the predicate. :P "To seek" is also a transitive verb, meaning it requires an object.
EDIT: Typo. :-[
Absolutely right, Deloria! If it weren't for something else he said, I wouldn't continue... but you'll see why I can't quit quite yet below. (I already had most of this typed when I hit post to find that Deloria had already covered most of the ground on this... ...also, I've just read a chapter or two of
Eats, Shoots and Leaves so... my inner-stickler is in full inner-battledress...)
Quote from: Merlin on May 17, 2008, 10:13:00 AM
Quote from: Deloria on May 17, 2008, 08:16:52 AM
I know I'm probably the only one whom the grammar mistake in the oracle's voice clip bothers.
You're not. :P
Yes, you are absolutely not alone in this.
* * *
(At the point that one's post contains such a mark... that point may be the point at which one has crossed the edge of reason... :P)
Simply wrong, chucklas. It's a matter of case. There are no "extra words": the verb "seek" demands the objective case so that we must have "Seek him...."
That "extra word" you cut out with your hatchet (do you have a permit for your grammar hatchet?) is the subject of the relative adjective clause. I cannot abide your calling a !
subject! an "extra word" as if "I am" might just as well be rendered "am."
The spoiler contains an aside...
[spoiler](this is a bit of a linguistic joke b/c if English were pro-drop but still had its current semantics, this would be one of the cases where dropping the subject would be acceptable, :P and we would regularly see present progressive and present passive constructions with no subject in sight).[/spoiler]
The dependent clause in full is "who rules the Isle of the Mists."
As an example of where it would be right to say "he": "He who rules the Isle of the Mists is the only one who can help you." That's fine. You seem to be playing it by ear... "he who..." sounds right because we're accustomed to hearing nominative pronouns followed by adjective clauses beginning a sentence and acting as the subject. It isn't doing so here. It's wrong. The grammarian in all of us dies a little on the inside every time we pass over it... but it is wrong... but we'll live with it to get TSL. :P
* * *
I have to go disarm my stickler now... he's taking a machete to the part of me that is lazy when typing and permits numerous typos and grammatical mistakes.
I've been swamped these past few weeks, so for those wondering, the next journal entry will end up getting posted this upcoming weekend.
I can't wait to read it! I always enjoy reading the journal entries! They're very insightful!
The next entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special/) is now posted. This month's entry entitled "Start Your Engines!" discusses the software design and creation of TSL's dialogue system. It also features screenshots of prototypes and final versions of the Conversation Editor and Conversation Tool. Check it out! 8)
That's so kawaii! I mean.. awesome.. I mean, it's amazing. Thanks for the great read :D
LOL Kawaii! XD I'm glad you liked it. I wasn't sure if it was still too geeky to understand or not. :P
Very cool! :)
I specifically liked:
QuoteAre you a clone?
and
QuoteGraham goes webcam
LOL! ;D
very cool inside look! thanks for the entry. :)
Thanks guys! ;D
Quote from: copycat on June 09, 2008, 04:22:45 PM
I specifically liked:
QuoteAre you a clone?
and
QuoteGraham goes webcam
LOL! ;D
lol, that screenshot was taken years ago, back when we couldn't get any other characters to appear in the engine besides Graham. XB As for the webcam, I have no idea where
that came from! :P
I loved it! Especially the tease of Chessboard land! Did you guys intentionally put the dialogue test box right in front of the castle so we couldn't see it?
[spoiler]And I absolutely loved the guillotine! The place head here thing was hilarious! [/spoiler]
Great entry Neil! I'll edit the facebook group with the information later today (I'm at school, and they block facebook unfortunately). I loved it, and I can't wait for the next edition!
Quote from: dark-daventry on June 10, 2008, 09:55:42 AM
Did you guys intentionally put the dialogue test box right in front of the castle so we couldn't see it?
Yup! :suffer: :P
Thanks for updating it. :)
Neil, I love that the Chessboard Land screen is in there! If I didn't know what it looked like, I'd be soooo mad at you. :P
Hello, I am an amateur musician who use Sibelius software. Can you tell me please which programs do you use for the different levels of music production, or more specifically, what program is associated with each screenshot in the journal entry?
Thanks very much in advance.
I'm not sure about the first screenshot, but the software program used in all the others was Cubase 4.
Thanx 8)
It was definitely a great entry! How could you tease us with that dialogue box?! Argh lol. Well I suppose I should go round up all the goodies you've dropped in the journal specials... In every entry you seem to drop something (whether its a new version of the main theme, or a new screenshot, or a hint of what chessboard land looks like). Am I correct in guessing that every entry will drop something, and the final entry may have a nice surprise/treat? (I do realize my answer will likely be :suffer: lol). Anyway, I loved this entry, and I can't wait for the next one!!!!!
I think every entry had something old, something new, ...something borrowed, something blue! ;P
I haven't really thought about what the final entry will have yet, but that does sound like a good idea... 8)
Woot! Extra spoiler! :D
:P
Yay, I suggested something that might actually work lol. How many more entries are there? I assume the entries will conclude as the game nears release. I definitely can't wait for the next one!!! And I'll be sure to update the Facebook group with all relevant information!!!
I always look forward to these too! :yes: And the next one's code :D :D
(Posted on: June 27, 2008, 07:51:24 PM)
So, are we getting one this month? :)
I really hope we are! I'm really looking forward to it!
Yup. It got a bit delayed because I was more focused on the game this past week. It should be posted by next weekend, if not sooner. 8)
Sweet, I can't wait! Thanks for the update Yonkey!
Cool :D Though
game > journal.
:yes:
The next entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special) is now posted. This month's entry entitled "Execution is Everything" explores some of the code that goes into scripting scenes and sequences in TSL. Enjoy! ;D
Code makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. ^^
Code gives me a headache XD :P
Awww. :P But that code wasn't too difficult to understand, was it?
Kewl..! :)
That is just really cool :D
Makes me even more excited for my game programming class this fall !!!
You're taking a game programming class? Awesome! I really wish I could...
Ooh, game programming! XD Do you know what language you'll be coding in yet?
Not sure, but I think we're doing something with xbox's :P
Quote from: tessspoon on July 14, 2008, 07:29:39 PM
Not sure, but I think we're doing something with xbox's :P
XD! That sounds pretty awesome! Be sure to let us know how it goes. ;D
It's the first time she's (my professor) is doing this, so we'll see how it goes. (Personally, I'd rather stick to the PC cause I have very little to do with consoles) But, yeah, sure. ;D
ooooo *is very intrigued*
I loved the entry (even though I can't read code lol) and I updated the facebook group with the link to it! I can't wait for the next entry!!!!!!
No spoilers this time?
Nah. Revealing the scripting behind a never-before-seen puzzle would just ruin it entirely.
I have a feeling we'll get more spoilers in the future though. Coding is a hard thing to show a spoiler from. At least that's the way I see it. I can't read code to save my life, so a spoiler in that format would be torture and it would be a foreign language lol. But I have a feeling more are coming...
Possibly. I just couldn't give a scripting spoiler because it would either reveal exactly how to solve a puzzle, or it would be some obscure lines of code that wouldn't really interest anyone. I tried to pick stuff that wasn't too technical, and something that most people have experienced firsthand already, so that they could see exactly how it was done.
Anyway, I'll try to have the next entry up by this Sunday. :)
Cool, I can't wait to see it! I may be a bit late on putting it up on the facebook group as I'll be in california for vacation. I will still have internet access I assume, but I have no idea what my aunt uses for internet. If she doesn't have wifi, then my laptop will be useless over there. Though I suspect she has a computer (she sends e-mails all the time...) so we'll see. I can't wait to read it though!
The next entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special) is now posted. This month's entry entitled "Listen Up!" talks about sound effects and ambience used in the game. Check it out! 8)
Very cool :D I wasn't lost this month! :D
I thought the sound of the rain in the abandoned village square sounded great. Will there be a selection for sitting and just listening to the rain? :P j/k. Seriously though, you guys are doing great. Looking forward to the finished product.
-Dopey
Quote from: Yonkey on August 03, 2008, 09:17:15 PM
The next entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special) is now posted. This month's entry entitled "Listen Up!" talks about sound effects and ambience used in the game. Check it out! 8)
Need I say you have outdone yourself mister Yonkey. Once again very kawaii! ;D
Really, great read.
Thanks guys! ;D
Quote from: Dopey on August 04, 2008, 04:42:56 AM
I thought the sound of the rain in the abandoned village square sounded great. Will there be a selection for sitting and just listening to the rain? :P j/k.
lol, well, there are volume sliders for: music, voice and SFX. The SFX slider plays ambience and sound effects, so if you really want to only hear that, you can! ;P
Yeah, the sound for the village square is pretty cool sounding for sure. Great special!
Nice job with the sound effects. Ambience is very important to me while playing a game. I look forward to the final product.
Awesome job on both the ambiance and the journal :D
These journals are really very interesting ;D
I'm glad you guys enjoyed it! :D
Quote from: tessspoon on August 04, 2008, 12:33:07 PM
These journals are really very interesting ;D
I agree. I have found that I actually look forward to these on a monthly basis.
-Dopey
Quote from: tessspoon on July 14, 2008, 09:14:37 AM
Makes me even more excited for my game programming class this fall !!!
I got one of my game programming books today, and I got excited when I saw a section on the history of gaming with a page on Sierra and King's Quest XD XD
Awww. XD Did they have any screenshots? If so, which game(s)?
Nah, no screenshots. Was more about Sierra in general and Roberta and Ken with just a couple lines on KQ.
The next entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special) is now posted. This month's entry entitled "Lights! Camera! Action!" describes the elements involved in building the 3D set of a scene in TSL. Enjoy! 8)
Very cool!! Exporting, collision meshes, and triggers must be some of the more difficult parts to get right, as a LOT of the bugs are related to these! It's cool to see a little of how this works.
Steve
Heh yup. I was actually originally going to mention that in this entry, but I decided to save it for next month's entry instead.
I really enjoyed this entry!! It was very insightful!!! I can't wait for the next one!!!
I'm glad you liked it! This material from this entry actually inspired me to do the entire Journal Special. After seeing how scenes are built piece-by-piece, I expanded on the idea to show how the entire game is build piece-by-piece.
Well I'm definitely loving the journal specials! They're very very insightful for me to read!
Just to give everyone a heads up, entry #10 most likely won't get posted until this weekend.
I'll keep an eye out for it. I may be at work while it's posted, so it may take a little while for me to update the facebook group, but when I see the entry I'll update it.
(Posted on: September 29, 2008, 04:58:43 PM)
Hey Yonkey, was the journal entry delayed? I'm really looking forward to reading it, but I haven't seen it posted yet...
Could he be waiting until the 15th? ;)
Or perhaps the 13th? 10/13/2008 = 1 + 0 + 1 + 3 + 2 + 0 + 0 + 8 = 15
All speculation, but it has taken a long time for this one to come out ;D
Sorry, I was a bit too busy last weekend to finish it. It'll be posted Monday evening.
I can't wait to read it! And we'll have to wait and see whether there are any hidden goodies in it...
Absolutely!! The journal entries have been really informative and just plain fun to read. It's amazing the amount of work that goes into a production like this.
Looking forward to reading it. :)
Thanks guys! ;D I spent the last couple of hours finishing it up, and it looks like I'll be able to have it up by tonight! 8)
Awesome! I can't wait! I'll be standing by to update the facebook group. I will be having my friend over sometime today, so I may edit the facebook group a few hours after it's released, but I'll make sure the group is updated with the information! I'm ecstatic to see it!
Cool! Looking forward very much to seeing it. :D
The next entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special) is now posted. This month's entry "Testing 1, 2, 3..." discusses the process and tools we use while beta testing TSL. Enjoy! ;D
Finally, I have the Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious clip in its full form! XD
I almost peed my pants hearing that XB
I really like this entry! Though I would like to point out that there is a link problem. When clicking the blue "testing" button at the top of all the journal entries, I'm brought to an error page. I just thought you'd like to know. I'm currently updating the facebook group, and I can't wait for the next entry!
"Graham-eating Column"
Graham should be more careful about those. XD
I take back my broken link report. It's been fixed!
Quote from: dark-daventry on October 11, 2008, 09:15:32 PM
I take back my broken link report. It's been fixed!
lol, yeah I actually noticed the broken link myself and fixed it as soon as I spotted it. :P
Can't be many entries left after this... ;) *crosses his fingers*
I feel honored - my bug report made the journal entry! !!! That one's pretty funny ;D
I can see from that entry that the beta-testers are very dedicated! I have high hopes for the finished product! And as for the amount of entries remaining, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there are two. I remember when the journal specials were first announced, it said over the course of the next year they'd be releasing entries. So I'd wager the final entry will be in December. The next one is about management of the project (at least, that's what I am assuming based on what I read...) and so the final entry must be about the finished product and/or what's to come...
Quote from: snabbott on October 12, 2008, 01:28:39 PM
I feel honored - my bug report made the journal entry! !!! That one's pretty funny ;D
Hehe yep. I would have shown the attached screenshot as well, but it's a little
too suggestive. XB
I would've liked to see the screenshot.... Couldn't you censor it if it's suggestive? (then again, that defeats the purpose of showing the screenshot, doesn't it...)
Quote from: Yonkey on October 13, 2008, 09:51:41 AM
Quote from: snabbott on October 12, 2008, 01:28:39 PM
I feel honored - my bug report made the journal entry! !!! That one's pretty funny ;D
Hehe yep. I would have shown the attached screenshot as well, but it's a little too suggestive. XB
Now that you mention it, it
IS a bit suggestive, isn't it? ;]
Now you have me intrigued!
:suffer: :suffer: :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:
Interesting journal! Its obvious you gyus are all hard at work - im so excited :D
I went back and looked up the picture! I'd forgotten how funny it was XD :suffer:
please, for the sanctity of this forum, please, stop teasing us... lol. When the game is out, can we finally see this "suggestive" picture you're all so fascinated by...?
You guys are worse than my dad when it comes to teasing us. :P XD
Quote from: tessspoon on October 14, 2008, 05:55:24 PM
You guys are worse than my dad when it comes to teasing us. :P XD
Lol I agree with tessspoon! Come on, have mercy on us lol...
It's gotten really weird to see someone actually call me tessspoon XD XD
Quote from: dark-daventry on October 14, 2008, 05:31:16 PM
When the game is out, can we finally see this "suggestive" picture you're all so fascinated by...?
I hope not. If you still see it once the game is out, it means it never got fixed! :P
I think what was meant was, " can we see the screenshot outside of the game." Like posted on the forum, I hope that it wouldn't be in the game
I understood what he meant the first time, but was just tryin' to make a joke. ;P
As for the screenshot... we'll see. 8)
Sorry. Obviously I missed it. :P
I would love to see a screenshot, though now I wonder whether I'll regret it... And sorry, I didn't know what else to call you...
Quote from: dark-daventry on October 24, 2008, 10:27:30 AM
And sorry, I didn't know what else to call you...
Don't be, I don't mind at all. I just find it amusing; I've gotten so used to everyone calling me Tess or Tessy. :)
Well I was gonna say tess, but I wasn't sure anyone called you that. So now I know. Thanks Tess!
Just to let everyone know, the next journal entry won't get posted until next weekend at the earliest.
Thanks for the heads up! I'll keep an eye out for it!!!!!
Quote from: Yonkey on November 01, 2008, 11:00:02 AM
Just to let everyone know, the next journal entry won't get posted until next weekend at the earliest.
How DARE you, Yonkey! BOOOO!!!! ;P
Quote from: PirateKingChris on November 01, 2008, 03:37:27 PM
Quote from: Yonkey on November 01, 2008, 11:00:02 AM
Just to let everyone know, the next journal entry won't get posted until next weekend at the earliest.
How DARE you, Yonkey! BOOOO!!!! ;P
Hey! Be nice to Yonkey. He works hard!
I'm sure he's aware I was kidding :P
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to finish the entry this weekend like I hoped, so most likely it'll get posted next weekend.
Well, I can't wait to read it! I'll wait as long as it takes to get it posted, as I'm quite interested in this one. I'll be keeping an eye on the forum next weekend!
Looking forward to it! :D ;D
The next entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special/) is now posted. This month's entry "Stick it to The Man" talks about the many different strategies and tools used in managing TSL over the past 7 years. Check it out! 8)
Very cool! 8) Since I'm new to the team, it's interesting to see how things were done before I got here. I'm definitely glad we have Redmine - it seems much better than the previous options!
Very cool. :D We were having problems, particularly with file sharing and knowing what the most updated version was, with our adventure game for game programming class, and we only have 3 people on a very small project. Trying to manage TSL over the years sounds very complicated :P
*dances*
Can't wait for next month's! :D :D
It's my favourite so far!!! So I suppose you guys now use the wiki?
Very nice entry. I have enjoyed all of the a lot but I don't think I have ever liked a sentence as much as I like the last sentence of this entry. I'm looking forward to it
I love the last sentience too! Notice the change on my signature. I REALLY can't wait!
Thanks guys! I apologize for this entry taking a bit longer than expected. When the site went offline last week, it made it a lot more difficult to get screenshots for some of the things in this entry. But, I'm glad the wait was worth it. :)
Quote from: snabbott on November 16, 2008, 05:57:34 PM
I'm definitely glad we have Redmine - it seems much better than the previous options!
Yup! Even though we're not really using Redmine to its full potential, it's still a vast improvement over any of the previous systems we've used in the past.
Quote from: tessspoon on November 16, 2008, 06:30:34 PM
We were having problems, particularly with file sharing and knowing what the most updated version was, with our adventure game for game programming class, and we only have 3 people on a very small project.
I've also had that problem with group projects in University. Usually we had to just divide up the project into pieces and eventually e-mail them all to one person to combine them all together. For my final project, our group (of 5 people) used Subversion and since TSL had been using it for several months at the time, it was pretty simply to use. At work, we use CVS, but it's almost identical to SVN.
Quote from: atec123 on November 16, 2008, 07:27:02 PM
So I suppose you guys now use the wiki?
We stopped using the wiki once we started using Redmine, which was just over a year ago.
And yes, I'm pretty excited about the final journal entry too! XD
Wow!!
'nuff said!
WOW!!!!!! That was a great entry. I had no idea that the organization of the project changed THAT much over 7 years!!!! I am now looking forward to the final entry!!!!!! We will finally know when the game will be released!!!! Are you going to ask us what questions we want answered? Because, obviously, release date is a biggie. I would make a thread to get people's questions, and then choose the best ones to answer, but that's just me. Unless you've already chosen which questions are going to be answered... Oh, one quick question... Is there anything new for the fannatics? It seems like the whole idea of fannatics has died out...
It makes you wonder how the team got anything done back in the days of Yahoo Groups!
I'm guessing Yonkey already has a pretty good idea of what people want to know, since people have been asking questions about the project for years (and I think release date has to be #1)! He might be willing to entertain additional questions, though.
I know release date is my #1 question as darkdaventry said, you should start a question thread.
I haven't written up the entry yet, but yes, I have a pretty good idea of the questions people want answered. :P
Great, I am very excited! ;D
Of course, since I've already played chapters 1 and 2 (:suffer:), what I really want to know is what happens next! ???
Is there any chance of a little screenshot update or something??? I'm eager to see some more of the game without getting spoiled.
What's with the suffer smiley :suffer: it looks happy, not suffering.
The smiley's not suffering; the recipient of his superior laughing is. ;P
As in:
Yonkey: I know when the release date is!
Fan: When??
Yonkey: I'm not saying. Mwah hah hah! :suffer:
Fan: :(
I don't think I know the origin of the suffer smiley. ??? All I know is its been used to torment us fans since way before I joined. XD
(Still love the little guy though; I used to have an animated siggy with him in it)
I like the "Suffer" too :suffer: :suffer: :suffer:
It's cool.
Maybe the next jounal special is about the release date
Quote from: snabbott on November 18, 2008, 12:10:14 PM
I'm guessing Yonkey already has a pretty good idea of what people want to know, since people have been asking questions about the project for years (and I think release date has to be #1)! He might be willing to entertain additional questions, though.
It should be part about that.
The suffer smiley is an age old tradition here at TSL since before even I started posting (though I was a roamer years before I joined the forum...) It's use however has slowed considering spoiler's aren't so much a concern anymore. Now that the game is coming very close to release, spoilers are a thing of the past. And I am very much looking forward to the next entry. I haven't yet updated the facebook group (I've been monumentally busy with work, and this week is Thanksgiving in the US. Grocery stores get crowded in the days before Thanksgiving... And I'm at school now so I can't update the facebook group right now. But I will soon.) I do also wonder what's next after part 1. I assume it is part 2, then part 3, but we'll have to wait and see what Yonkey says next month...
Quote from: dark-daventry on November 25, 2008, 09:12:52 AM
It's Its use however has slowed considering spoiler's aren't so much a concern anymore. Now that the game is coming very close to release, spoilers are a thing of the past.
I wouldn't be so sure about that! Having played the game, I can guarantee that once you get through it, you'll be wanting to know what comes next!! What I've seen so far creates WAY more questions than it answers! :suffer:
I really liked the musical piece at the beginning of the first demo, with all the violins in it. I hope you're keeping it in the game!
Quote from: RollingStone on November 28, 2008, 09:51:34 PM
I really liked the musical piece at the beginning of the first demo, with all the violins in it. I hope you're keeping it in the game!
Yup, the same piece is used in the full game when exploring the Castle of the Crown.
good, I lovve the music in the demo. ;D
I liked the music but i hardly cared about it after 10 minutes in, it just sounded all the same to me tbh.
Yeah, I hope all the music is as good as that, I think it will be ;)
All the music
IS as good as that!
Quote from: Seymour on December 02, 2008, 03:08:11 PM
I liked the music but i hardly cared about it after 10 minutes in, it just sounded all the same to me tbh.
There is different background music for different places/times. I think it's kind of like in the movies - a lot of times, you're not really aware of the music, but it contributes a lot to the feel of the game.
In games I hardly pay attention to music really. I pay more attention to the game itself, but I do notice when their's an absence of music. Listening to just the music, I can tell it's quite good. It's very well orchastrated, and it sounds beautiful. I love the main theme of the game. I hope you guys release a soundtrack download (I remember mention of one some time ago...)
What I mean is that from what we know thus far of the first part, spoilers aren't as prominent. Considering the game is supposed to continue for two more parts, there of course have to be cliff-hangers and big plot points for those respective games, but we haven't gotten to that part yet. Right now, all gears are focused on Shadows, and spoilers for that particular game aren't nearly as common as they once were. I remember the good old days... lol j/k
(Posted on: November 25, 2008, 11:22:57 AM)
Just to let everyone know, I've been majorly busy with school and haven't had time to update the facebook group (and sadly my school blocks facebook) but I hope to have the group updated by tonight. Any update on the final journal special? I may hold out on updating the facebook group so that I can update it with both entry 11 and 12, but we'll see. I can't wait for the next journal special!!!!!!!
I would actually say to just go ahead and update it for entry 11. It'll still be a while before the final entry is finished. 8)
What's the face book web address?
Quote from: atec123 on December 03, 2008, 11:14:33 AM
What's the face book web address?
Do a group search for "TSL Phoenicians".
Thanks Yonkey. I'll update the group right now!
Will it be up before Christmas? Before 12.12 "The Day the Earth Stood Still"?
I hope :D ;D
I hope so too, but you never know. Only time will tell...
I saw in another topic that Phoenix does not have full control of when they can release the game because it will first need to go to Vivendi Universal for final approval before it is released. True?
I hope Journal entry 12 talks about this, Vivendi's stipulations and requirements and final date they give the OK light on the project.
Sincerely,
Sam
I imagine the final entry will at least touch on that subject. And from what i had heard, VU does indeed control the release date of TSL...
hey, samthunder, You cross posted again. Yes, I hope it will to D-D.
and I hope they mention the Non disclosure agreement that beta testers had to sign and its facts and details once the agreement expires, or the game or a public beta is released, whichever is sooner. :)
Quote from: samthunder on December 20, 2008, 03:55:51 PM
and I hope they mention the Non disclosure agreement that beta testers had to sign and its facts and details once the agreement expires
The NDA never expires, even for people that leave the team. There is a portion of the entry that discusses the rationality behind having the NDA though.
Great, I was wondering about that, I really can't wait. ;D :D
Neither can I! It really sounds like a really great read!
I'm sure it will. ;)
Oh, and I hear that Santa has entry #12 already packed up on his sleigh... :P
lol! Sounds like it is going to be December 25th :P
...unless Santa loses it :o or decides to keep it for himself :sneaky:!
Quote from: samthunder on December 20, 2008, 03:55:51 PMand I hope they mention the Non disclosure agreement that beta testers had to sign and its facts and details once the agreement expires, or the game or a public beta is released, whichever is sooner. :)
Clause 1: Thou shalt not
(REMOVED)Clause 2: Thou shalt not
(REMOVED)Clause 3: Thou shalt not
(REMOVED)etc.
Shouldst thou violate these clauses, thou shalt be excommunicated after being subject to th' three-headed dragon... :-X
Seriously though, did you really want to know a bunch of legalese? :-\
So yep, it's coming on Christmas day. That'll be the best christmas gift ever. And it's the only gift that'll contain a surprise for me (I know all my other gifts. My mom orders directly off of my list lol)
lol! It's coming on the one day I won't have access to a computer... great ;D
I hope that it will come tomorrow, I can't wait to see what it says!
me neither! ;D :D :D
The last entry in our Journal Special (http://www.postudios.com/archivedTSL/journal/special/) is now available. As a special Christmas present from the team, this month's entry "Freedom of Speech" finally answers many of the questions the public has been asking for the years, including details on TSL's current percentage complete and the release date. This is the entry you've all been waiting for. Enjoy! XD
Great journal entry Yonkey! I am really looking forward to the finished product, whenever it is released. Thank you for taking your time to explain all the intricacies, ins and outs, ups and downs the team goes through. Kudo's to everyone for their hard work.
I hope everyone has a great Holiday!!
Great entry, Yonkster! :)
Great job to all the team. I know it's been a long and difficult road. We're all so proud. And I'm honored to be part of a wonderful and dedicated group :)
Hurrah! We'll have the game by May 2010! :D
I really do wonder about the single real unknown in the equation; namely how long it would take Vivendi to approve the final product. At any rate, I'm sure building a solid foundation now makes it much easier to finish the last two parts of the nine chapters. :D
Thanks for the great journal entry, Yonkey!
Yay! Great entry, Yonkey! (Except the spelling is imminent, not immanent. :P)
When people started speculating that Shadows (Ch. 1 & 2) would be released in December or January, I knew that wasn't realistic, but I didn't want to say anything (and it wasn't my place to say anything). I feel that May is a very realistic goal, though. There are still some things that need to be fixed or added, but the game is quite playable at this point. A lot of the outstanding issues are relatively trivial - things like the spoken narration not quite matching the captions.
Of course, once it's released, I won't have occasion to use :suffer: anymore! :P It will be worth it when everyone sees how awesome the game is (not to mention silencing all those people who say nothing will ever be released)! :D
Oh - also, I wanted to say what a HUGE priviledge it is to work with the team! :D :D :D
OMGYAY!!!!! THE BEST YET! I love this!! I never knew all that had to be done with Vivindi!
To be entirely realistic, there will still be a LOT of people who will say it will never be released. They'll say the momentum is done and parts 2 and 3 won't be released. :P Irrespective to that though, it's AWESOME to see how much the game has progressed and how little time is left before Shadows is done!
Here's to an awesome summer break. 8)
Yea, this will be great, I have lots of confidence in this project, despite it taking so long. I know it takes long to make a game, especially if no one gets paid/works full time.
Quote from: Oldbushie on December 25, 2008, 06:26:29 AM
Hurrah! We'll have the game by May 2010! :D
That's May 2009 ;)
I'm giving Vivendi a maximum of one year to make up their minds as to whether the game's approved. XD
Quote from: Oldbushie on December 25, 2008, 02:49:34 PM
I'm giving Vivendi a maximum of one year to make up their minds as to whether the game's approved. XD
OMG! if they are crazy enough to delay it 2 ******* years.....
I don't think they will though, they can''t...
Great news! This game can't come fast enough. I have full confidence in the team though. Keep on rocking! 8)
Thank you all so much for the update and the hard work.
I believe when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains.
In this case, we all left King's Quest behind many years ago, the memories and love for a simple pixalated adventure always remain with us ... but part of us remained with King's Quest ...
It drew in a few foolishly optimistic developers and amateur artists... who simply believed against all adversity that they could bring a memory of a dream back to life.
Now we see it living and breathing again ... Daventry, and all of its friends will come back.
Faith manages...
Animan
Yeah, I'm not old enough to have played them all when they came out,, but KQ has this great, magical feeling to it. It's hard to describe, and I am very happy to see Tsl going well, and I think, (and hope )Tsl will bring that back. Great Entry Yonkey!
Thanks everyone! ;D
Personally, I don't think Vivendi will take one year to evaluate it. I don't know how long it took for them to evaluate QFG2VGA, but I doubt it was longer than a couple of months. The only reason why I could see the evaluation taking longer than expected is because of TSL being low on their list of priorities.
Quote from: snabbott on December 25, 2008, 09:01:21 AM
Yay! Great entry, Yonkey! (Except the spelling is imminent, not immanent. :P)
I knew it wasn't looking right for some reason! Thanks. It's now fixed. :P
Quote from: Rosella on December 25, 2008, 10:37:15 AM
To be entirely realistic, there will still be a LOT of people who will say it will never be released. They'll say the momentum is done and parts 2 and 3 won't be released. :P
Oh... I just realized I forgot to include a very important section on Parts 2 and 3. I've now updated the article.
Quote from: Yonkey on December 26, 2008, 12:12:45 AM
Oh... I just realized I forgot to include a very important section on Parts 2 and 3. I've now updated the article.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :'(
Does this mean at the end we will get a half finished game with no clear ending? :wall:
I understand the amount of work this project requires but storywise we would all like to know how it would end. Will you at least release the story of chapters 3-9 after the game release?
:stars:
OMGNO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I am still excited to see this game, REALLY excited, but now, I don't know what to think. That doesn't mean you are ditching the storyline of 3 does it??? But, I still can't wait for May 2009!!!! And I still've got to say, YOU GUYS ROCK!
Quote from: Animan on December 25, 2008, 05:40:37 PM
I believe when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains.
Faith manages...
Animan
Sounds like
someone has watched a little Babylon 5. ;) Great show.
Quote from: Haseth on December 26, 2008, 04:11:42 AM
Does this mean at the end we will get a half finished game with no clear ending? :wall:
I understand the amount of work this project requires but storywise we would all like to know how it would end. Will you at least release the story of chapters 3-9 after the game release?
We have added a few minor things to Chapter 2 to make the ending slightly more satisfying than it was before, but obviously it's not quite the same as ending with Chapter 3, or Chapters 4-9.
We don't have any plans to release the storyline. However, there was some discussion at one point about releasing Chapter 3 in a different medium than video game. We'll revisit this possibility after the release of Chapters 1 & 2.
Wow...jeez. That is a big difference, cutting out 2/3 of the game. But I can understand if you thought it was going to take years to do more of it.
So we may get Chapter 3 in some form, but we'll never get 4-9?
Is this Vivendi's fault? I mean if vivendi hadn't shut down the project few years ago would this still have happend?
If it's Vivendi's fault I'm going to start a "Down With Vivendi" ;D petition. Vivendi's caused original Sierra fans enough misery already.
>:(
I doubt it. They took away a few months of working time and a lot of momentum, but they didn't take away enough to cause 10 years worth of change. :P
Quote from: Rosella on December 26, 2008, 11:11:16 AM
So we may get Chapter 3 in some form, but we'll never get 4-9?
Correct. The little work done on Chapter 3 at least gives us something to work from. The other Chapters have barely any work done on them, if anything.
Quote from: Haseth on December 26, 2008, 11:29:26 AM
Is this Vivendi's fault?
Not entirely. The game itself is very large, and to develop something very large takes a very large amount of time. The only way it could be developed in less time is if we were paid to work on the game full-time, as opposed to occasional part-time. Legally, the only way we could profit off Sierra-based IP is with a commercial agreement from the trademark owners, who happen to currently be Vivendi.
Let's blame it on me. :)
When I came up with the original plot for TSL, and together with Katie wrote the game design document, I had absolutely no idea what we were getting into, and I used to fill my mouth with pride in the 3000 page game design document.
Anyone with a little experience would have told me " You are crazy".
Even with a budget, it would still be a very large game.
However, and I think I speak for all the team, let's enjoy what's coming. Chapters 1 and 2 are great and something to enjoy. Chapter 3 will probably come out in some form, and as for 4-9, it's too early to say. The script is written, miracles happen, 20 million dollars sometimes do drop from heaven lol
Seriousy though, let's focus our energies on what's there. Even if we have made the (very) tough decision of cutting the game short so we can have our lives back and we can pursue other ventures, TSL will always be with us, wherever we go, and who knows, maybe things will change in the future and we get a chance to work on it. I'm personally always going to be looking for one ;)
After all, it was 20 years till we saw a new Indiana Jones movie... but we saw it!
Enjoy Chapters one and two.... very soon!!! It's still about the same size as King's Quest 6.... so imagine :)
QuoteAfter all, it was 20 years till we saw a new Indiana Jones movie... but we saw it!
Eesh...as long as it doesn't include aliens, and does include a kick-ass soundtrack by John Williams. Then I'm sold.
I just am very happy now, I was thinking it would be really small now, very nice to hear that is still a good size game. ;D
Quote from: César_Bittar on December 26, 2008, 12:19:50 PM
Enjoy Chapters one and two.... very soon!!! It's still about the same size as King's Quest 6.... so imagine :)
Oh wow, ok then. I think I can deal with a game that "short" XB
If the original was to be 3x longer than KQVI, a commercial game following a successful series and with a decent budget, then I have to agree that it was just a tad over-ambitious. It's a massive accomplishment to have come even this far. Excellent work and dedication getting it this far, it is a truly impressive accomplishment.
What?!? I can't believe we had so few bugs reported in December! I knew I should have been looking harder :P
Seriously now, I know it's very disappointing to hear that Parts 2 & 3 won't be released in the foreseeable future :( but being a beta testers, I can see a little 'behind the scenes' and appreciate just how much hard work has to go into getting the game ready for release (and also, how real life can keep you from getting the work done :-\), so I can understand the team's decision.
I still have some hope that the release of Chapters 1 & 2 will motivate the team enough to finish and release Chapter 3 at least... I know I wouldn't mind the extra work ;)
LOL! Well, the 95 new issues created this month were offset by the 94 Polish bugs removed. :P But the team actually did a great job at fixing and closing off a lot of previous open bugs in the past few weeks. That accounts for the massive percentage complete this month.
I would love for Chapter 3 to be released someday as well, especially because of how unique and different it is from the rest of the game. But I think it will really depend on the "momentum" (as Rosella put it :P) that will come from releasing Chapters 1 & 2.
I'm glad, that we, finally, will be able to see the fruits of your tireless labors! A bit sad, that we won't see Chapters 3+, for now. But that's understandable.
Quote from: Yonkey on December 27, 2008, 10:51:00 AM
......................
I would love for Chapter 3 to be released someday as well, especially because of how unique and different it is from the rest of the game. But I think it will really depend on the "momentum" (as Rosella put it :P) that will come from releasing Chapters 1 & 2.
I would love this as well. The thing is, will you need to take KQ out of the game if you did this? What about making a KQ10, and using AGS, and 2d graphics, and doing something like IA did? I don't recall IA getting into trouble with Sierra. What do you think Cez, Neil???
Chapters 3-9 are still owned by Vivendi, because they own Sierra intellectual property and any derivative works. So, no, we wouldn't need to take KQ out of any of the other chapters.
We're not planning on making a KQ10 or any other games based on Sierra IP. TSL is the only Sierra-based product we'll ever make. There are far too many legal hoops to jump through.
To be honest, I don't really know what decision process Vivendi uses when deciding who to contact or not. As for making 2D games, it's not entirely out of the question. I'm not sure if we'd develop them using AGS though. Personally, I'm far more familiar with Adobe Flash, and Torque has a 2D game engine as well. We'd probably use either of those.
You wrote that Parts 2 and 3 will probably never be released "non- commercially." So is it possible that we'll see them if we're willing to pay for them? I'd certainly be willing to pay a reasonable price, and I'm willing to bet that other "fannatics" would too. Hell, I'd even be willing to pay up front if that's what it takes to finish the game!
If that kind of situation came up, I too would be more than willing to pay up front for them!
Afraid that's not likely. It would take a whole new arrangement with VU that is pretty unlikely unless the release of chapters 1 and 2 is quite spectacular indeed. :(
yeah, I was thinking, I f they don't waant you getting this out for free, I don't think they would want it going commercial, but I am not an expert on that.
I would LOVE to see TSL completed, even as a 2D game. I know it would still be a lot of work, but it should be a lot less than developing it as a 3D game. As great as the graphics in Ch. 1 & 2 are, I think the story is the most important part. If the rest of the story is anywhere near as good as the first two chapters, it would be tragic for it to never be released! :'(
Quote from: RollingStone on December 27, 2008, 10:22:38 PM
You wrote that Parts 2 and 3 will probably never be released "non- commercially." So is it possible that we'll see them if we're willing to pay for them?
Like I mentioned in the entry, the only legal way for us to release them commercially is with a commercial license from Vivendi. Our current license with them is non-commercial, meaning we're not permitted to sell the games.
I'm just thankful if part of the game is released. The team has really worked their behinds off and I think we're all very grateful for your hard work and can't wait to get to play it ourselves, and it seems like what you're releasing will be pretty lenghty so how can we lose :D
Quote
I would LOVE to see TSL completed, even as a 2D game. I know it would still be a lot of work, but it should be a lot less than developing it as a 3D game. As great as the graphics in Ch. 1 & 2 are, I think the story is the most important part. If the rest of the story is anywhere near as good as the first two chapters, it would be tragic for it to never be released!
I definitely agree with snabbot on this. As wonderful as the graphics are in Chapters 1 & 2, the most important component making up The Silver Lining is the story. It would be awful if we never able to see what happens in Chapters 3-9.
However, I also know that the TSL team has been working very hard for a very long time on this project, and I'm ecstatic that we'll be able to see Chapters 1 & 2. You guys rock!!!! :D
Just so you don't get the wrong idea, I AM thrilled that Ch. 1 & 2 are nearing release! The fans have been waiting a LONG time for this. (I waited a long time, too - I was just lucky enough to be one of the ones to see it early. :D) The team have worked very long and hard for this (and they still have quite a bit to do over the next few months). Nobody can say they haven't done enough for this, and nobody has a right to expect more from them. I do hope the rest of TSL will eventually be released in some form or another, though.
Even if chapters 1 & 2 are all that get released, believe me, you won't be disappointed! :D
I guess you're right about commercial release; I forgot about the legal problems involved. Don't give up on Viviendi, though. I understand how hard it is to communicate with big faceless corporations, but I've found that if you harass them enough they eventually get to your question. :)
What if you found a source of funding? I'm sure that the same fans who would pay for the game would gladly contribute if we passed around the collection plate. But I guess that you'd probably need more money than you could realistically raise, although it wouldn't hurt to have a rich supporter who might be reading this... ;)
Maybe these are dumb ideas, but the reason I keep coming up with them is that I don't think you should EVER give up on this game. After all that time and effort and work, it would be a tragedy to leave it unfinished. Personally, I don't care how long it takes. If it takes ten years, I'm willing to wait ten years. Getting something later is infinitely better than never getting it at all.
Unfortunately, donations wouldn't be enough to allow us to develop TSL full-time. However, receiving funding from a more wealthy source isn't entirely out of the question. We've gotten offers in the past, but had to decline them because of the whole legal mess that would ensue.
But keep in mind that our decision today is all based on the present situation. We don't know how things will change once Chapters 1 & 2 are released. Perhaps Vivendi will change their mind, or perhaps someone else will become very interested in purchasing TSL or even Sierra as a whole from them. If something like this were to happen, we might consider completing the other chapters. If we were paid to work on the game full-time, it wouldn't take ten years to develop.
Quote from: Yonkey on December 29, 2008, 10:48:29 AM
Perhaps Vivendi will change their mind, or perhaps someone else will become very interested in purchasing TSL or even Sierra as a whole from them. If something like this were to happen, we might consider completing the other chapters. If we were paid to work on the game full-time, it wouldn't take ten years to develop.
In that case, can you be absolutely clear with me and tell me whether or not my statement is right:
As it stands now, the other chapters aren't coming out.
If by "now" you mean as it stands today, then you're correct. The only chapters scheduled to be released are 1 and 2.
Quote from: Yonkey on December 29, 2008, 02:04:01 PM
If by "now" you mean as it stands today, then you're correct. The only chapters scheduled to be released are 1 and 2.
I mean as in if there isn't in the future (both the foreseable and beyond just the foreseeable future) any sort of buyout or alteration in the Vivendi agreement.
Basically what I'm asking is if none of the situations you or Cesar suggested (buyout of Sierra or TSL, 20 million falling from the sky, alteration with the Vivendi deal, etc) occur in the future, will chapters 4-9 not come out?
Quote from: TheReturnofDMD on December 29, 2008, 02:10:20 PM
Basically what I'm asking is if none of the situations you or Cesar suggested (buyout of Sierra or TSL, 20 million falling from the sky, alteration with the Vivendi deal, etc) occur in the future, will chapters 4-9 not come out?
Correct. The team has no intention of developing those chapters non-commercially. Chapter 3 is the only one that may, mainly because it could be developed differently and released in a far more reasonable timeframe.
I thought the whole thing was supposed to be free.
Quote from: Boogeyman on December 30, 2008, 02:03:25 AM
I thought the whole thing was supposed to be free.
I think it was, but, wouldn't you buy it? All I mean is, it's better to have it as a commercial game, then not have it at all.
QuoteI thought the whole thing was supposed to be free.
You might want to re-read the journal special to see why "what is supposed to" and "what ends up happening" don't always match.
I gotta say the entry contained some stuff I could closely empathize with. Particularly the digital sugar buzz at the start of the project that is then slowly followed by the more mundane phases. I applaud the decision not to spend the next decade pouring all your free time into one project, though I feel fortunate it wasn't me who had to make that decision. Must have been mighty tough.
I guess the best bet would be to try and give chapter 2 as much "closure" as possible, rather than a "to be continued"-caption at the end. The thing with commercial deals is that even if one gets the go-ahead (which, if the shutdown of the official Sierra forums and the desire to sell the rights is any indication, is very unlikely), financers don't go funding a 4 to 5 year process all at once. (which I would assume it would take a paid team to finish all nine chapters) Or if they do, they cancel the deal the moment they feel like it. That's why quite a few TV-shows got cancelled mid-season.
(http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashshp.jpg)
Quote from: Boogeyman on December 30, 2008, 02:03:25 AM
I thought the whole thing was supposed to be free.
Back when we assumed nine chapters would take a total of three years to make, we thought we could release it all for free. But after realizing that it would take at least a decade more (on top of the seven years already) to make the remaining chapters for free, it's obviously not feasible.
When we came to this realization, it was an extremely difficult decision to make. Like all of you, we always assumed the entire game would eventually get developed, but after seeing where we stand and doing some simple math, we realized it was no longer realistic to think that. Instead, we decided that if Chapter 2 happens to be as far as we go, we'd try our best to make it worth the wait.
Regarding closure, I guess it will depend on how people feel individually after playing it. It definitely wraps up the chapter and the storyline involving the Green Isles. However, even though the game doesn't have any "to be continued" caption, it's still somewhat apparent that there's more to be told.
As far as funding goes, I would assume it would be on a chapter-by-chapter basis. This is mainly due to the fact that apart from Chapter 1, each chapter is large and complex enough to be a standalone game on its own. But then again, saying this with words is one thing, and physically experiencing it is another. The future of TSL is largely dependant on how well-received Chapters 1 & 2 are, both by fans and potential financiers.
My jaw did drop and I didn't believe it when I 1st saw it would be free, I understand why, even if part 2-3 came out, they wouldn't be free. I don't care though, I'd pay a ton for something as amazing as this, I wouyld totally ignore the price, I just want to see it, and if not, well, I think you guys should be a bit more excited, after all, you guys ARE GETTING TSL! EVEN IF IT"S NOT WHAT YO THOUGHT IT WOULD BE, HERE, IT"S COMING YOUR WAY!!!!
The closure thing is... complicated. The story as planned is (presumably) on an epic scale. Graham is facing his biggest foe ever. To resolve everything as an epilogue to chapter 2 (or 3) would trivialize it (as well as ruining the story in case the other parts ARE ever developed). On the other hand, resolving nothing would be a huge disappointment - kind of like when your favorite show gets canceled and ends with a cliffhanger. I'll be interested to see how the team will deal with this challenge.
Hi team,
I want to wish you all a Happy New Year. The journal series was great info, and feel free to enjoy some time off of this game to celebrate and take a break from the game. I bet it's been a rough time with all that you went through as a team and from the info you mentioned in the journal series, particularly no. 12 :suffer: Hear's to a great 2009 and to TSL!
I said this in another thread, just wanted to sum it up here:
If all else fails, I'd love to read the rest of the story in e-book form. I enjoyed the King's Quest books just as much as the games themselves, including the King's Quest Companion. I know turning a script into a more easily readable book form is a challenge in itself, but hopefully far more plausible. However, Yonkey makes a good point that we don't know what the future holds. I'll be elated to finally play what I've been waiting for for so long.
It it were certain that the rest of the game would never be developed, I would settle for the script as-is! :D
I would like to read the rest if it is never released so more closure will be there. EVen if the rest ended up coming out and I had already read it, I would still love to play it. I play these games over and over :) I also love the Kings Quest novels and anything else KQ I can get my hands on!
Does anyone remember when the King's Quest compilation came out? You know, the compilation that didn't have the original King's Quest in it? :P It was number one on Amazon for a while, with the other compilations not too far behind. Let's take a moment to think about this for a second. Number one, on Amazon. That's kind of a big deal. If there's still that big a market for old school Sierra games, imagine the market for a new one. Once Vivendi sees the full quality of chapters 1 and 2...once they see how much popularity this game is going to get (anyone remember the demo? XP)...I mean, if you guys keep track of the number of downloads, like you did with the demo, Vivendi will have a quantitative value of how much interest is in this game, and that's without any funded publicity. People want this game. People miss King's Quest. There is still a market for adventure games, because there is always a market for great plots. The reason RPGs are so successful is because of their characters, character development, and plot. TSL has all of this, and there IS a market for it, even in people who have never touched a Sierra game.
Am I being hopelessly optimistic? Probably. :P
But do I have a point? I think so. :P
What I have been looking forward to, all of these years, is the plot of TSL. I wanted to see what you guys did with the characters I loved, related to, felt for, and accidentally killed. I wanted to see them become three-dimensional (figuratively, though literally is pretty cool too. :P) I wanted to see them become people, with strengths, weaknesses, pitfalls, goals. I wanted to see the characterization more than anything. A very close second was, of course, the plot. I wanted to know what happened, the explanation for everything, loose ends tied up, closure for the royal family. Of course, being a fairly morbid person, I certainly didn't mind the idea that the plot was going to be darker, more mature. Not only do I want more King's Quest, but I want this King's Quest. It may not be canon, but the idea was everything to me. If we can't have the game, then yes, I'm begging you for the plot in some form. I just still haven't given up hope to see this as it was intended to be.
I'm obviously upset that this is what it's come to, but I fully understand why. I'm a TSL fan through and through, and I'll continue to support the team, even though I'm disappointed by what had to happen. Make sure to keep us updated on games you produce (under whatever name :P) in the future. You'll have me as a consumer. :P
I'm not sure how well the number of free downloads would correlate to potential sales. ???
It's interest. Obviously it doesn't directly mean this many people would buy the game. XP If people are interested in something enough to download it, there's a good, though obviously not solid, chance that they'll at least think about buying a full version of it. For all we know, this could be considered the shareware version of TSL in the future. :P Also, if Vivendi were to put money into advertising it, it would get to a far larger group of people, which would help even things out a bit. Personally, I would base possible sales of TSL more on the ones of the KQ compilation.
Only TSL would sell more, because it's new and amazing. :P
Oh, I'm not saying that the market isn't out there - I'm just saying that I don't know that the number of downloads would convince Vivendi. The compilation would probably make for better estimates. There's still the question of the cost of development, though. :-\
I hope SOMEBODY decides TSL is worth completing - it would be sad not to ever see the completed product. :'(
(Posted on: January 01, 2009, 01:10:30 PM)
Quote from: Rosella on December 31, 2008, 12:20:46 PM
What I have been looking forward to, all of these years, is the plot of TSL. I wanted to see what you guys did with the characters I loved, related to, felt for, and accidentally killed.
XD XD XD
Well, ya know, it's true. :P
I actually agree with snabbott that the number of people that download a free file doesn't exactly translate to the number of people who would potentially purchase the game. Plus, the download count itself will never be 100% accurate, especially if the files are hosted on a mirror site, torrent or equivalent. You're right about the interest though. If hundreds of thousands of people download something, there's definitely a market for it.
Personally though, rather than number of downloads, I'd say the popularity of the game will be based on the game itself. If fans like it, they'll encourage others to get it. If critics like it, more will be likely to try it. And if the quality of the game itself speaks for itself, it won't be a hard sell for those who will market it. Basically, I'm saying rather than downloading it out of curiosity, they're downloading it because bottom-line: it's worth downloading it.
It's obvious to me it is, as well as many of our fans, but it won't be obvious to everyone else until it's released and out there.
As long as people have been waiting for this, I think it will probably generate a fair amount of publicity when it is released.
Quote from: Yonkey on January 01, 2009, 07:05:48 PM
Personally though, rather than number of downloads, I'd say the popularity of the game will be based on the game itself. If fans like it, they'll encourage others to get it. If critics like it, more will be likely to try it. And if the quality of the game itself speaks for itself, it won't be a hard sell for those who will market it.
So it's our job to make sure that the game is as good as it can be when it is released! :D
(Posted on: January 01, 2009, 10:10:48 PM)
Quote from: snabbott on January 01, 2009, 12:15:19 PM
Quote from: Rosella on December 31, 2008, 12:20:46 PM
What I have been looking forward to, all of these years, is the plot of TSL. I wanted to see what you guys did with the characters I loved, related to, felt for, and accidentally killed.
XD XD XD
Quote from: Rosella on January 01, 2009, 01:08:08 PM
Well, ya know, it's true. :P
Actually, I have to admit - it wasn't always an accident! ::)
I'm curious if any consideration has been given to the possibility of 'passing the torch', so to speak.
If the current POS "staff" were willing to dedicate years of their lives to create chapters 1 & 2, certainly there exist other young up-and-comers out there willing to take over the project.
What are the legal implications of this scenario with respect to POS having a non-commercial agreement with Vivendi? Would a new team need to take ownership of POS, and would such a transfer of ownership void said agreement?
Thanks,
John
See John, the owner of POS is Cesar Bittar, (correct me if I'm wrong, Neil) I think that they could do it with the same owner, or another member of the [current] team as the owner, and the same essential people, but with a new company. But you are right, that isn/t a bad idea, what you have siad could be possible, (for all I know) but don't mistake me as a team member here, you should ask Neil (Yonkey) I like your idea there, nice.
thanks,
atec123
The license we have with Vivendi was modified to only cover Chapters 1 & 2, so a new license would need to be negotiated for future chapters regardless of whether POS develops them or someone else. A transfer of ownership wouldn't be necessary, since it would be a separate license.
And POS is actually owned jointly by Cesar, Rich, Mike, Katie, Petter and myself.
*edited*
be back in a few minutes to finish what I was going to say
(Posted on: January 02, 2009, 01:47:44 PM)
I haven't yet read all of this thread, or any of the other threads yet, but I want to say that I 100% agree with everything Rosella said here (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=6608.msg260724#msg260724).
I haven't posted about this yet because it upset me quite a bit, even though I understand completely why. I was really looking forward to seeing the story and how the characters were portrayed and developed, particularly as I've known for a while now that I have a very unhealthy obsession with one of them (three guesses who :P).
Just like Rosella said, I still remain in full support of you guys, and am looking forward to this summer for the release!
That's all I'm going to post on the subject for now, until I've looked through everything else.
I don't normally post around here, but I figured this was a suitably important moment. So, casting off my lurking cloak...
This is fantastic news. Even if this isn't the whole game (or the whole of Part 1 as we thought it would be), it's at least a great big 3D showcase for all the hard work the team has done over all this time. They deserve to be given pats on the back for making something concrete, and we'd like to see what it's like (though we all know, of course, that it will be the epitome of brilliance).
Not so good is the fact that chapters 3-9 look shaky, to say the least. I'd kind of hoped that I'd one day be able to play all 9 chapters one after the other and have a complete story. (Heck, maybe even play KQ1-8 and then 9 over the course of a month or something.) But, well, this is the real world unfortunately and your decisions have to be realistic. So, though I'm saddened by your decision, I fully support it. I still think you should try to persuade Vivendi to give you financial backing, though, once chapters 1 and 2 are out: after all, if you can get that then everything will become a lot, lot faster and easier and you can finish the whole thing. I'd be more than willing to buy KQ9 if it was put on sale and I suspect there are enough people who'd be willing to do the same, as long as it got some publicity on enough websites. I'd also be gladdened by the thought that, rather than just going into some faceless company's bank account, my money was in some way helping you guys.
But, whether Phoenix does end up on that road or strikes out on its own as a new company with its own original ideas, you guys have my full sympathy and support. In this industry filled with WW2 shooters and party games (poor, poor Wii, what have they done to you?) it's genuinely uplifting to see a company doing something because it loves games and has creative vision.
I know you have said you are going to do original games and you have probably answered this question before, but I can't seem to find it. Are your original games going to be anything like KQ or other adventure games?
I don't know if they'll be like KQ, I know they won't BE KQ, but they might be good adventure games on other consoles, that have a nice story like that..
First off, its a shame that you won't be able to present the entire game as you intended. Congratulations on finishing what you have so far. ...and good luck on your future endeavors. Hopefully the rest of the story can be released in some other form. Is Peter Spear still writing the novel?
Secondly the blog says that Vivendi Universal currently owns Sierra.
Actually isn't it Activision Blizzard now? At least sierra.com redirects to Activision's website.
Thanks for your support and understanding, darthkiwi. What you mentioned is actually what will happen. Once Chapters 1 & 2 have been out for some time and we get a general idea on how people feel about them, we will re-approach Vivendi to discuss a commercial license. Their response at that time will determine whether the remaining chapters will come to fruition or not.
On the other hand, if the release of Chapters 1 & 2 create opportunities for the team to develop new products, we'll finally be able to pursue those, without having the burden of TSL on our shoulders any longer.
Chapter 3 is the only one that isn't so clear cut as the rest. If given the opportunity to develop it commercially, it will be a game. Otherwise, we'll really need to assess how worthwhile it would be to develop non-commercially. We know for sure that it would have to be made in an alternate format, in order to be released in a reasonable timeframe. But the bigger question is whether it would be worth the effort or not. We can't really commit to a Yes or No at this point, because the way we feel today might be very different from how we'll feel 6 months from now.
Quote from: jewelkid87 on January 04, 2009, 12:54:44 PM
I know you have said you are going to do original games and you have probably answered this question before, but I can't seem to find it. Are your original games going to be anything like KQ or other adventure games?
We haven't decided entirely on what our first original game will be yet. All we know for sure is that it won't be based off of any Sierra-related intellectual property.
Quote from: Baggins on January 04, 2009, 03:41:27 PM
Is Peter Spear still writing the novel?
We haven't heard from him in a few years, so I'm not sure.
Quote from: Baggins on January 04, 2009, 03:41:27 PM
Secondly the blog says that Vivendi Universal currently owns Sierra.
Actually isn't it Blizzard Activision now? At least sierra.com redirects to Activision's website.
Even after the merge, Vivendi remains the majority shareholder with 52%. But you're right that the decision-makers the company employs today may be completely different from the ones there 4 years ago. On the other hand, there is no trace of any classic Sierra game on Activision's site.
Well, Sierra.com redirects to Activision's site. There are articles on various websites last year about the merger, and how Activision may possibly decide to sell off Sierra and their mobile game departments. Apparently Activision is making the decisions (at least for Sierra).
http://www.edge-online.com/news/activision-set-sell-sierra
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/03/21/activision-vivendi-merger-not-quite-as-rosy-as-it-seemed
http://www.gamespot.com/news/blogs/rumor-control/909119209/26296584/activision-blizzard-freezing-out-sierra-projects.html
Other than that I don't understand the situation very well.
Those articles are 5-9 months old, and don't really say what exactly happened to Sierra after the merge. In the 5-month-old article, they state that they're reviewing their options regarding the games they won't be publishing.
In any case, we're still going ahead with what we plan to do, and we'll just have to see how things turn out in May.
Ya, like I said "last year". Not much update after that... I don't think there is any updated news after that really.
Edit:
I checked wikipedia, this is about all it had to say;
On the 9th of July 2008, the merge between Vivendi Games and Activision was complete. Around this time there were articles released stating that if a Sierra product does not meet Activision's requirements, "they won't likely be retained."[2]. Althought some of Sierra's games such as Crash Bandicoot, Spyro The Dragon, and Prototype have been retained by Activision and will be published by them.
During October, Sierra made an announcement stating that they will close their forum servers on the 1st of November 2008 (Which has been delayed for an unknown reason). Most of Sierra's games will not have a forum anymore except for Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon, Prototype, and Ice Age 2 (which have been retained by Activision [3])which will be moved to Activision's server. [4]
On the 10th of November 2008, Massive Entertainment was sold off to Ubisoft. [1]
Swordfish Studios is now owned by Codemasters.
Sierra's two remaining studios include High Moon Studios and Radical Entertainment, both of which are now part of the Activision Blizzard umbrella.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_Entertainment (links to information there)
Unfortunate...
And completely understandable.
I was just as sad as the next guy to hear that the game won't be released in its completed state. However, I am curious how far your contract with Vivendi goes, since everyone is talking about e-booking or releasing the script or whatall, I was just wondering if Vivendi had given you the rights to produce the entire script in whatever medium it may take.
However, that question aside, if you need an e-book editor, let me know. Let all of us know.
hey, who knows. an e-book beta! (ok, that wouldn't work... I lied)
Our license with Vivendi currently is for Chapters 1 & 2, but they have a clause in there which states that they will still own any derivative Sierra IP. In other words, they would still own rights to whatever we decide to release that is Sierra-based. Changing the medium is more to benefit us, because doing so would result in far less work and time than building a game.
all right, but that still does mean that you would have to negotiate with vivendi in order to get the rights to do the continuation...
I guess I can handle that...
barely...
I agree with Oldbushie, Snabbot, and Quertan. An e-book, script, or a Word document would definitely be MUCH better than an epilogue at the end of Chapter 2.
Unfortuanately, it seems, as Quertan said above, that POS would need to reopen negotiation with Vivendi in order to release Chapters 3-9 in any type of format even if it was just a Word document.
What I don't understand is why POS is having to go through all this legal hassle with Vivendi considering the fact that POS is releasing this game for free.
I mean, look at AGDI...they've released King's Quest I, King's Quest II (with signifigant addition of plot changes, more puzzles, better graphics, music, etc. etc.), and Quest for Glory II. And it seems to me that AGDI did not go through all this legal stuff that POS has been dealing with :-\
I'm fairly certain that AGDI went through the same evaluation process will be going through for QFG2, and the updated versions of KQ1VGA & KQ2VGA. The fact that Vivendi's still giving approvals gives us some re-assurance.
Due to my absence I first learned of the decision to only complete Chapters 1 & 2 rather late....
The work that the team has put together thus far is nothing short of breathtaking, work that has quite obviously taken much time, care, and love to create. Thus I can totally understand why the choice would be made. To put as much time into the remainder of the trilogy would surely be a difficult venture without monetary support and resources.
Vivendi would be nuts to not give you guys their full support after the release of the first two parts, but I suppose we can only wait and see.
Either way the most recent journal entry has added excitement and anticipation in regards to the ideas such creativity could bring to life in the form of new original projects! :)
If worse came to worst, is there any chance you guys might would give up the resources(scripts, voice acting, ect.) to group making a less technically ambitious game? Like a classic style 2D version? I'd love to see where you guys go with the story.
Quote from: J-Rod on April 04, 2009, 03:57:55 PM
If worse came to worst, is there any chance you guys might would give up the resources(scripts, voice acting, ect.) to group making a less technically ambitious game? Like a classic style 2D version? I'd love to see where you guys go with the story.
This question has actually been asked many times. I will try to find a link to yonkey's answer.
Atec, here is the link: http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=6626.0
Thanks for finding the link, Liggy. :)
The only thing I'd add to this is that I've been told that Activision (i.e. the current KQ owner) does not grant fan licenses, so it looks like it would not even be possible for another group to continue TSL.
Also, many of the directors don't like the idea of doing other chapters in 2D. Besides the technical complications that I previously mentioned, it would change the look and feel of the game, and would be akin to what Sierra did with KQ7 after KQ6. And even though I enjoyed KQ7 itself, the drastic graphical change made it feel somewhat sub-par. It did had some pros though, namely better music and auto-recovery on death.
In other words, if we were to develop further chapters commercially, they would be 3D and at least match the style of Chapters 1 & 2, if not look even better.
QuoteBesides the technical complications that I previously mentioned, it would change the look and feel of the game, and would be akin to what Sierra did with KQ7 after KQ6. And even though I enjoyed KQ7 itself, the drastic graphical change made it feel somewhat sub-par. It did had some pros though, namely better music and auto-recovery on death.
While I understand what you are trying to say, I'd like to point out that your analogy is flawed.
Graphically KQ7 is vastly superior to KQ6. It has SVGA graphics compared to VGA. Even the sprites are SVGA graphics and therefore a higher resolution than the sprites in the previous game. The main difference between the sprites is that the previous game used a more realistic art style, while the designers decided on a disneyesque style for KQ7.
Your analogy is based on your taste in art style rather than actually an analogy of technical differences. KQ7 is not a downgrade on KQ7, it actually an upgrade technically and graphically (graphics does equate "style").
KQ6 vs. KQ7 would be more akin to Zelda games; Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask vs. Wind Waker. In that series, OOT and Majora's Mask used a more realistic art style, whereas the designers went for a cel-shaded animation style in Wind Waker. Wind Waker is technically superior in every way to previous games, but the cel-shaded style was not to everyone's tastes. The next game in the series Twilight Princess went back to a more realistic style, but the technical side is slightly better than Wind Waker. Both games are more or less gamecube generation graphic technology (though there is a WII version which likely has graphical improvements as well). In anycase this is an argument over aesthetic choice of the designers, rather than the technical differences between the games.
A better analogy that you could have used could have been Mega Man 8 vs. Mega Man 9. In that series it went from high resolution graphics in MM8 back to the NES 8bit style in MM9. They litterally went retro for old school fans. I haven't tried the new game, but from what I understand its not just a style difference, but literally they went back to old school style of game play as well. So it literally was a technical downgrade.
I didn't say the graphical resolution was worse. I said I felt the graphical change (i.e. the look and feel) was somewhat sub-par, relative to KQ6.