Hello, another serious discussion now :)
Seeing as a large majority of you are from America I'm asuming you are all mostly belong to the Christian faith (generalisation I know but forgive me this instance). SOOOO I was wondering if any of you didn't read Harry Potter on grounds of your religion or if you know anyone that didn't/stopped their kid from reading due to religious beliefs. It just really puzzled me, and made me slightly angry how people could damn an entire series of books due to the fact that it features magic as one of the aspects of the books.
So if you do know anyone, or if you didn't read it, what were the actual reasons, not just because of my religion etc, what was the exact reason?
Not trying to be offence or 'owt just always been interested at people who are scared of letting others read material on matters of fantasy.
DISCUSS(heh sounds like an essay now!)
Ok, I'm neither Christian nor religious, but you're asking KQ fans if they wouldn't read some book because it features magic? wrong crowd if you ask me ;)
I watched the two movies, but I've only read one of the books because I didn't have the time, the interest or a copy of the others :P
I don't personally know of anyone who didn't read Harry Potter for religious reasons, but I did see a news article about religious people against Harry Potter. It was really stupid! Why don't they protest against other fantasy books? aren't books like Narnia and Lord Of The Rings good enough for them? they had to wait for Harry Potter to come along to start protesting?? >:(
yikes alex what a heavy topics you've brought in lately :P
PERSONALLY I havent met yet anyone that has stopped reading harry potter because it includes magic or so, it that were the deal noone would even read horoscopes... lol cuz you know all that stuff is offensive and yet on every single newspaper you do get an entertainment little part where you do have cartoons and other sort of goodies even horoscopes and such.
I am a cwappy catholic I must admit, I take religion when it suits me and I feel I can believe when I want to, sounds kind of mean but at least Im honest about it. I love Harry Potter concept myself it brings a whole new fantasy world into kids and people who do enjoy this genre, and I dont find it offensive I actually believe somehow it has some values to consider.
Heheh yes another heavy topic Say :D
Well funny you mention Narnia storm as thats whats got me thinking about this. I'm doing a major piece of coursework for my english lit. atm comparing Narnia The Last Battle And The Amber Spyglass by Phillip Pullman. Well I read the Narnia books when I was a kid and loved the due to the fact that they had no real ties and worries to the real world BUT my entire image was obliterated when someone happened to mention how Narnia is closely linked with the Bible!!!! It never clicked with me, not once, not even the magicians nephew with the garden and the apple etc. I suppose cus I'm an atheist it wouldn't have clicked straight away...
Still anyway thats how I got to thinking about why people wouldn't read fantasy (perticularly HP due to all the press that incident got) due to religious grounds.
Quote from: Storm on February 22, 2004, 06:57:55 PM
I don't personally know of anyone who didn't read Harry Potter for religious reasons, but I did see a news article about religious people against Harry Potter. It was really stupid! Why don't they protest against other fantasy books? aren't books like Narnia and Lord Of The Rings good enough for them? they had to wait for Harry Potter to come along to start protesting?? >:(
so true... I consider Harry Potter a fantasy book too... I dont know why religious would feel offended :/
Heh, I also learned about Narnia being linked to Christianity long after reading it... not being Christian, all those motifs just eluded me ;)
I'm a Catholic and I've never read a Harry Potter book! But then again, I don't really read books. ;D
I saw the first Harry Potter movie and found it a little too childish for me, that's why I didn't watch any others. Personally, the magic/witchcraft thing itself doesn't bother me at all. I actually like movies that involve fantasy/surreal themes & have special effects that defy the laws of physics (Matrix, Spiderman, etc). :lovegoggles:
I don't think I'd ever NOT watch something because of religious reasons. The only reason I wouldn't watch a movie is if I heard it sucks, but even then some movies I just have to see for myself regardless. ;D
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/harry_potter_fact_or_fiction.html
Pure bunk, in my opinion, but some of the reasons why more extreme Catholics hate Harry Potter. I'm Catholic myself and I think they are the ones who have gone a bit far...
It's a work of FICTION, people! It's not written to pull people to the Dark Side! Yeesh!
They could use those same arguments against any work of fiction that has an element of evil or occultism practically. It's ridiculous. And there have been a lot of great works of fiction that deal with the occult in some form or another. :P
"Sorry, no Star Wars for you, it has levitation in it and stuff which looks like witchery and might make you want to be a witch instantly. I'm burning your priceless colelction of Star Wars stuff now."
:P
ARGH! I don't f***ing believe how ignorant some people can be!!!!1!!!11!!!!!11!!!! (none of you before I continue, your all beautiful and lovely :D)
I've just been reading a Narnia forum and the amount of crap that is being spouted in the Christianity in narnia section is really worrying and aggravating! Theres poeple now saying that Allah is Satan, any other people's beliefs automatically realtes back to Christianity and Satan! I can't believe that people can be so unaccepting of other beliefs and I'm sorry if anyone else believes the same but its things like this that cause wars and s***. Also a reason why I can never belong to any religion.
Well kinda pointless post really, just wanted to get the burning aggression out of my system!
I think jeysie's point is correct, because of harry potter is more orientated to kids thats probably why its got so many negative feedback perhaps from concerned parents, but then again I also agree even if kids do enjoy badly fantasy they can at some levels KNOW they shouldnt jump out the window with a broomstick hahaha, because it wont freaking fly :P, I dont know its more about common sense when it gets to that point I guess :P
woah... so serious in here, does anyone want some milk and cookies? :) <3
you know... to take a break from all the typing :P, lol
This is nothing. You should see me when I *really* get going.
Peace & Luv, Liz
Quote from: Jeysie on February 23, 2004, 05:11:13 PM
Heck, I'll eat Mike's scarf, too. ;)
Peace & Luv, Liz
You'd need a *lot* of ketchup for that. ;)
And yes, milk and cookies please! <3 All this reading needs a break...
Quote from: Jeysie on February 23, 2004, 05:29:47 PM
This is nothing. You should see me when I *really* get going.
lol I suggested that not cuz I would like you guys to stop, in fact If you get a break and get back to it would be nice :P, thats why I suggested, not that I do not agree, I actually do, I seriously couldnt see how a book like HP could be offensive at all myself, I think its great reading for everyone in fact :)
*shares cookies!* :P
Yay! <3
*eats yummy cookies baked just by Say*
Quote from: Say on February 23, 2004, 05:35:16 PMQuote from: Jeysie on February 23, 2004, 05:29:47 PM
This is nothing. You should see me when I *really* get going.
lol I suggested that not cuz I would like you guys to stop, in fact If you get a break and get back to it would be nice :P
(laughs ) I was teasing... sort of a "Break? What for? This is just warm-ups!" sentiment. ;D
Peace & Luv, Liz
Yeah one of my firends is a Christian but not to the extent that she lets it rule her life etc. I think some people want to know that there is a community or any number of people who believe what they do, it is a comforting idea. I'm not sure what type of christian she is but they are quite liberal compared to catholicism I think.
Meh, I'm kinda running out of steam now but I'm sure i'll get some more when I get home from school hehe.
Mike and everyone else had very good points. The "Christians" who freak over the HP books think it's all about magic and dark arts and witchcraft in the "bad" way - it's not! It's a book about kids growing up and facing an evil force, and trying to win against it! The only point I *might* give them is that the kids do break rules a fair amount in the books and it's kind of forgiven quite often. But it's most commonly done for good reasons, and in efforts to help their friends.
People who think HP are teaching kids to be evil have never read the books. Period. If they had, they would clearly see how wrong that idea is. (My opinion, but hey.)
I mean honestly, their kids are begging to read something!! And loving it!! How can you discourage that??? And the more you tell a kid NOT to do something, the more he or she will want to.
Also, as far as Narnia, CS Lewis was a Christian writer, and though I never took a class on it or read into much myself, from what I understand there is quite a bit of Christianity worked into his works.
His Dark Materials!! I read not long ago, Alex, good books!! Really good. I think I liked the first one best myself, THe Golden Compass, but they were quite good. I've never read Paradise Lost, which I know they are a retelling of, but I'm sure doing so would give even more insight. Have you read the whole series? And what exactly is the topic/thesis of this paper?
Wow...I just missed writing research papers...but only the ones with cool topics like his has!! Well, bound to happen if you were an English major .... ::)
And no, I don't personally know anyone who refuses to read the HP books. My friends have all either read them or just aren't fantasy fans and therefore haven't.
You know, a thought just occurred to me...
Anyone else find it rather bitterly ironic that a country that was founded on the principles of freedom, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom to "pursue happiness", is starting to become so restrictive, based on the tenets of *one* religion?
Peace & Luv, Liz
His Dark Materials is awesome! <3
I remember the first book came out in middle school I think and I was always waiting fervently for the next one. Took a long time for the other two to finally be written but it was well worth it. ;)
Chronicles of Narnia is great too, I think I've read the entire series at least twice. <3
Quoteremember you are slave of what you say and master of what you dont.
Wise words Say, very wise :)
Sorry if I'm coming accross as only seeing this from my point, I DO understand why people fiercely devoted to their beliefs could find reasons not read HP/not let their kids read HP but I could never imagine being so devoted to a single thing to deny myself or others of something as important as literature. I suppose unless you are someone who disagrees with HP you'll never really totally "get" why they don't agree. Still its making good discussion and helping me with my coursework hehe. If only I'd taken sociology I'd have a near limitless amount of source material here!
I'd love to join in the controversy talk, but since I've sworn off of it, I think I'll just observe.
I have a diary on TeenOpenDiary, and there, its kind of "cool" to be controvercial and yell at other people for voicing their opinions, and about a year ago, I just got tired of it and swore off talking about controvercial topics on the internet.
Quote from: Say on February 24, 2004, 05:23:40 PMBelieve it or not, you can actually say about anything hence you do have freedom, if you didnt you wouldnt be able to say ANYTHING AT ALL, and perhaps, you wouldnt even have HP books there at all, so you cant please everyone at once, sadly they are a minority but even so they do have space to speak their mind regardless, because that's what freedom is about, I think. It is not about restriction its about them being able to say what they want to say, even if you think they are wrong.
Sorry, I wasn't very clear with my opinion on the matter. (I do that a lot, unfortunately. :P )
I have no problem with people speaking their minds against something... it's their right, and they can protest all they like with my blessing. It's when people start placing unwanted restrictions on other people without some kind of objective proof that the thing they're restricting is harmful... that's what bugs me.
If religious people want to avoid doing a certain thing, and speak out about that thing being wrong, I'm not going to begrudge them that. (Be a little annoyed, perhaps, but hey, that's *my* right. ;) ) But this thing of trying to push people who don't share their tenets into not doing something, with nothing more to go on than what they deem to be Holy Text, that I disagree with. :P
And then there's the whole matter of taking action on something without first researching what you're taking action on.
And yes, words (and therefore books) *can* be dangerous things. But it's a matter of *what* ideas they convey, not *how* they convey those ideas. Plus, if we refused to let people do/say things because they were "dangerous" (i.e., disruptive to the status quo), we'd still be stuck in the Dark Ages or something. :P
(Actually, if people didn't find a way to do/say "dangerous" things, we wouldn't even have Christianity, for that matter.)
Peace & Luv, Liz
the problem about it that you guys may fail to see its that if you get carried away you are being exactly the same as they are but in different ways, ironic but its how its being seen cuz I read from the beggining and during the heat of it there were made heavy asumptions that IMHO, you haven't research either. I dont see anyone around here being a parent, neither being inside the shoes of someone like that, so its back and forth.
We may read an article about it and asume we know the -news-, but that's the -event-, we know nothing about the people involved, (for the most I find it a bit odd myself), I dont judge who is christian and who is not, or what is or what is not, who is restrincting what or not, Im sad they have a problem with it cuz I think those books kick ass but honestly, deep down myself, they can do as they want, you must respect in order to get it back, if I dont want them telling me what to do so I should act the same way. Even if they choose to be in dark ages. You cant save the world, you can only save yourself.
So as I see it, it is so easy to judge and so hard to understand, that I rather pick neither. But I am aware that Im not going to tell someone what is christian and what is not, or who I think they are or not because I dont want noone stepping in my limits neither I would try to convert them to agree to what I say. Tolerance is a delicate art I see noone practice.
Unfortunately, you've got fanatics in every religion. I consider myself a free Christian. I don't follow it vividly, but I live by the general principles of it. Don't know anyone why didn't read the HP books out of their religious so I won't comment on it either. Everyone has a right to have their own opinion, but it gets awkward if their own opinion is interfering with someone else's 'free space'. I won't tell anyone else not to read a book I don't like.
Ok... i skipped a lot of what you guys said simply cuz theres so little to read, and so much time... (strike that... reverse it)
Im a Christian and I, unfortunately, have run into a couple Christians who have some reservations about HP...
Their MAIN problem being that HP makes Witches and Warlocks out as sometimes good people and real life magic as a good thing. In actuallity, this is never the case. Magic according to the Bible is evil in everyway and there NEVER is a good use for it
and since HP is more closely linked to "reality" and its aimed at kids... many Christians are afraid that it might convince them that Witchcraft and the like is good....
Now, In LOTR no magic is ever used thats good. Even Gandalf and his powers are described simply as "powers"... In fact, magic doesnt turn up at all in LOTR... Read the Silmarillion and the Christian influences become apparent.
C.S. Lewis also takes the "anti-magic" stance in Narnia... Who has magic? the Witchqueen... is she good? No
Furthermore, C.S. Lewis condemns magic in "That Hideous Strength" (third book of his space trilogy)
So... thats their defense and argument... I personally dont have much of a problem with HP (ive read all the books... cant wait for the next one too...) But I do respect the position i described above...
As for JK Rowlings be a "Satanist" and HP being a "Demon Worshiper".... thats just plain bull!
BTW... when is the next HP book due out? Anyone know?
CC's got it right about the "free space". I'm not telling the Christians, or anyone else, what to do. I'm just saying I think it's sad that they restrict kids from doing something that they think is harmful from a subjective perspective rather than an objective one. Since AFAIK there aren't any Christian parents trying to restrict non-Christian kids from reading the books, I'm not really any more than just sad at the matter. After all, Christian parents have a right to raise their kids the way they see fit. I have the right to disagree with it, but I don't have the right to stop them, and wouldn't wish to anyway.
I don't have a problem with people speaking their minds, ever. I might feel sad if people create restrictions for people of their own "group" if I think the restrictions are unwarranted, but it's still their right. It's only when a group of people tries to restrict the actions of everyone, even people who *don't* share their beliefs, that I get uptight. And I won't apologize for that... after all, if I wanted to be answerable to a certain group's set of rules, I would join that group. I don't need them pushing their rules on me.
So, yeah, this sort of thing makes me sad, and seeing as how the topic came up, I'll state my feelings on the matter. ;) But make an actual counter-protest, no.
I may try to respect other people's opinions, but that doesn't mean I can't have a dissenting opinion of my own, ya know.
Peace & Luv, Liz
I know what you mean... For me, I was taught what was right and wrong... but unlike many Christian familys... they also taught me the all important "Why?"
You can bet my lil bro watches HP! ;D
Quote from: FataliOmega on February 25, 2004, 03:56:03 PMTheir MAIN problem being that HP makes Witches and Warlocks out as sometimes good people and real life magic as a good thing. In actuallity, this is never the case. Magic according to the Bible is evil in everyway and there NEVER is a good use for it.
Truth be told, I don't think magic exists at all... at least, not in any of the "sterotypical" forms. But even if it did... I never really did understand why the Christians think *all* magic is evil. I mean, what about the idea of "white magic", where a spell is cast to do good? In fact, IIRC, the main credo of Wiccans is the gist of "Do what you will, as long as it harms no one." Wiccans don't allow themselves to cast spells unless it benefits everyone, and causes no harm. Anything that benefits people (or at least doesn't cause harm) doesn't seem evil to me.
To me, magic would be like technology... it's not inherently good or evil... it depends on how you choose to use it, and why.
I guess it's worth noting that my own moral code revolves around the questions of "Does it harm anyone?" and "Does it benefit anyone?". So there's a lot of stuff that Christians get cranky about that I end up scratching my head over, because I don't see how those things are harming anyone... and indeed some of them may even be benefitting someone.
Peace & Luv, Liz
When will the sixth book in the Harry Potter series be published?
There is no deadline for this book, so no publication date has been set
Thats from bloomsburys, her publisher. I hope she can make the summer deadline though, it was kinda nice having Harry age year by year. Still I suppose the three year wait for phoenix has kinda ruined that idea :D
In a way I don't want it to come out as its going to be smaller than Phoenix which means I'll finish even quicker and have an even longer wait for the final book (which is going to be absultely huge according to J.K. Rowling)
but... but... what about the movies?? I want to see all 7 books in movie form! *sniff* :-[
oh well... I wanted a sixth Tex Murphy game too, and that never happened...
(a 5th MI game... Babylon 5 Crusades finished.... Antioch Chronicles Episode 3... gee.. a lot of things...)
atleast theres going to be a KQ9... power to you guys :suffer:
Thanks! :D
We won't disappoint. ;)
Quote from: FataliOmega on February 25, 2004, 09:56:11 PMBabylon 5 Crusades finished....
All right, another Babylon 5 Crusade fan! Whoo!
Uh, that's all.
Peace & Luv, Liz
Quotebut... but... what about the movies?? I want to see all 7 books in movie form! *sniff*
Noooo don't worry it just means she's being sensible about writing the books, it will get released :) After writing the fourth book she was having a breakdown due to 5 years of constant writing so she said to the publishers I don't want a deadline to work, hence no date o look forward to and casue more pressure for her!
lol! It's good to see that my ramblings mean something to you Jeysie. ;D and I thought I was the only Babylon 5 freak out there.... This forum never ceases to amaze me (not that thats very hard ;-D )
Quote from: KatieHal on February 26, 2004, 08:17:10 AM
And Stephie, I can understand that! I'd like to say though, that unlike a lot of forums and so forth online, we're rather respectful and open-minded here, and if anyone attacks anyone else for an opinion of theirs, be sure Say & Yonkey will kick some ass on that guy or gal ;-) Don't be afraid to share your thoughts here, by all means! No one's going to burn you for being a witch - hahaha. ;-)
hahaha *cracks knuckles* :P
Quote from: FataliOmega on February 25, 2004, 06:05:12 PMFair enough... and if it really worked like that, Id be the first one to learn white magic... the supernatural is divided into two camps... God, and Satan (God is infinitely more powerful than satan... so its not a good and evil balance or anything...) and 'magic' according to the Bible is only Satan's doing and is only for evil. There is no other kind of 'magic.' But yeah, its pretty much a dead argument.
Is it a matter of, magic powers can only come from Satan, therefore that magic is always evil, even if you do good deeds with it? That makes a certain amount of sense... although as you can probably guess, I disagree. ;) Actually, speaking of Babylon 5 and Crusade, Jeanne Cavelos' Technomages novel trilogy deals with posing that "question" rather effectively.
At any rate, I agree with Katie... the Biblical definition of magic and the literary "definition" of magic have little do with each other. Of course, the Christian defintion of magic likely has little to do with anything except the Christian definition of magic. (shrug)
Peace & Luv, Liz
Quote from: Jeysie on February 26, 2004, 01:57:45 PM
Is it a matter of, magic powers can only come from Satan, therefore that magic is always evil, even if you do good deeds with it? That makes a certain amount of sense... although as you can probably guess, I disagree. ;) Actually, speaking of Babylon 5 and Crusade, Jeanne Cavelos' Technomages novel trilogy deals with posing that "question" rather effectively.
At any rate, I agree with Katie... the Biblical definition of magic and the literary "definition" of magic have little do with each other. Of course, the Christian defintion of magic likely has little to do with anything except the Christian definition of magic. (shrug)
Peace & Luv, Liz
A theorem & logic procedure.
Well, if Satan can come up with magic, then by default God must be able to, too...as there is nothing God cannot do. So is magic from God also evil? Well, no God is good. So all things coming from God are also good, right? Okay. So magic from God must be good, as well.
Yay logic.
I guess the Flemish have become too detached from religion to not notice this 'Christians against HP books'-issue. Sure, there are probably some minor groups here who are also against those books, but they keep their assesment to themselves. It is not publised, at least not in a noticeable manner. Like I said, I consider myself a free Christian, but I've read all books, and I see no problem in the use of magic.
If anyone's watched Buffy, you can see that a white wicca (Willow) can turn into a black wicca due to strong (negative) emotions but she can turn into a white wicca again by other strong (positive) emotions. Once again an example of how, even the same person, can use magic for good or bad, in other words, for good and evil. In HP, the good guys only use magic in a good way and the bad guys do magic in a bad way. They may even use the same spell, but they'll use it in a different way.
There's really nothing I can add to that post, Jeysie. Some of your reply was something I would have written, had you not beaten me to it. :lovegoggles:
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
*collapses due to extremely long posts* ;P
lol.... Is there any stout hearted Christian out on this forum who agrees even somewhat with me? I feel out gunned here... If theres anyone here who believes even half of what Ive said... please give me a "yelp!" on this thread... My last post took 40 minutes to write and send.... and honestly, Im running out of reasons to continue... but... being the glutton for punishment I am... Ill try to answer the faith question...
...This aint an easy one either... and I used to wonder myself... Heres all I can say.
I was born into a the world with two loving parents, both Christians, who not only believed, but also showed it... they werent hypocritical.
They taught me to question and to think (didnt just drill rules into me) I learned several things real quick from my own observations (even in my childhood)
1. This world, as complex as it was, just couldnt have come about on its own... there HAD to have been someone involved in making it.
2. Humanity in everyway was flawed... I tried to not mess up and sin, but it happened on a daily basis... No one is perfect and everyone tends to do more bad than good... We are fallen and broken.
3. My parents and I were so blessed... Something they were doing HAD to be right and different from the rest of the mainstream world... Christianity (since it was the centerpiece to their lives) was the most likely candidate.
With that said, I trusted my life to Jesus Christ and slowly but surely, my doubts have been removed. I cant really explain much of this... its not something you can touch and examin. I simply know He is there... and I know He loves me... I've had so many things go right for me... and I could mention so many of His miracles and how He answered prayers... Heres a few that stick in my mind.
1) I prayed about a month ago for my best friend, Bekah about a certain situation going on in her life. The situation was resolved within five days. In fact, when she told me about it, she told me how it was resolved... an idea had come into her head, she tried it, and it worked... very miraculous (Trust me, its an idea no one would have "just come up with," I cant mention the situation, but it was serious and didnt look like it would end.)
2) My parents (whom are very trustworthy, BTW) were threatened at gunpoint by a stranger a few years before I was born. My dad suddenly, without any reason, told the man a joke, and he went away without robbing or hurting them, laughing... can anyone say, miracle?
3) Again, as I mentioned earlier, I should have died 8 days old... I didnt, the Dr said I should have, and I believe firmly it was a miracle.
Anyway, those are some key reasons why I believe in Christianity... It's been the key to my parent's joy and happiness, and its been a key to mine. Im no "koolade" drinker, and Im not saying all this just to impress anyone on my debating skills... Please listen to me on this... Christianity is the truth... He loves you, and I love you all as brother and sisters... <3
Anyway, Im gonna cut back on this thread for a little bit, ok guys? This has been another 20 minute post... and it seems like im the only one who sees things this way on the forum... its wearing me out a little... so... God bless all of you, and I hope my posts here have meant something... :)
Just thought I'd jump in here real quick. I agree with what both sides are saying here. I've actually learned to stay out of controversial discussions because no side is 100% right.
As for the original topic, I don't believe magic exists and therefore cannot attribute it to good or evil. I do believe in unexplained phenomena/miracles, but I also believe in causality, karma and things happening for a reason. Since logic guides most, if not all, of my decisions, it's really difficult to define certain aspects of faith or religion because no one can "prove" God or Satan exists.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that if you don't feel like continuing you don't have to. If you want to continue you may as well. As long as the discussion doesn't turn into personal attacks or become circular (by this I mean the same arguments getting said over and over), it's fine by me. ;D
Geez, I really talk too much. :P I think I've probably said enough to give y'all an idea of how I draw my personal conclusions about things (i.e. attempt to be relentlessly logical and cover as many possibilities as feasible ;) ), so I'll just everyone else babble on without me, at least unless I see a spot to post something *short*. ;)
Peace & Luv, Liz
Nope... not gonna get into it... to respond to all that would take an hour and a half... Im tired and just not gonna do it... Anyway, thanks for your insight Jeysie... its been fun 8) God bless!
Ah. Me, I tend to be *very* concise with my personal rule set. Instead of memorizing all the laws, I just focus on the single law of love. Works for both government and religion in one fell blow, IMHO. ;)
this thread official gives me a headache and Im way too lazy to read all that, so, erm cookies again anyone? :P
YAY! KOOKIES! <3
I've only read a few posts to this topic and decided that I needed to reply to it. I am a Southern Baptist preacher's daughter, who is a devout Christian myself, and I live in the Bible belt. (I know that I've just used some pretty tough words: southern baptist, preacher's daugher, and Bible belt! lol). I personally HAVE read the Harry Potter books and love them...my mother and sister have read them also! I really don't see the problem with children reading these books if they do know the difference between fantasy and reality.
I am currently reading a book as a side note to a class that I'm taking right now where we're reading Lord of the Rings and the Harry Potter series (I have read both of these previously and my professer is a Christian). The book is called "The Gospel According to Harry Potter" and is written by Connie Neal. She proves the fact that a person can get whatever they want to out of the book. She has found MANY references in the books that refer to Biblical Truths. The funny thing with the references is that she's used some that people have previously said went against what the Bible says. I have to say that I agree with her conclusions.
I think that one reason that so many people support Lewis' and Tolkien's writings is that they openly and repeatedly declaired that they were Christians. Rowling has openly said that she believes in God and she attends the Church of Scotland, but maybe she hasn't stated this as loudly as Lewis and Tolkien did. Being a Christian, I do not see the problem of reading the books, as long as the reader (as I said earlier) realizes that the book is just fantasy, not actually reality.
I think this post has gotten long enough, but I was wanting to put my two cents in (although, I'm sure that I'm closer to a dollar now! lol)
Catherine
Quote from: FataliOmega on February 27, 2004, 08:20:44 PM
lol.... Is there any stout hearted Christian out on this forum who agrees even somewhat with me? I feel out gunned here... If theres anyone here who believes even half of what Ive said... please give me a "yelp!" on this thread...
"yelp!"
I so agree with you FataliOmega! I know I'm replying to my own post, but I just read more of the posts. I thought I'd give FataliOmega some support. My parents are also devout Christians (as mentioned before, my father is a Southern Baptist preacher). About the premarital sex post, I agree with you whole-heartily...I am 20 years old and also a virgin, and intend for it to be that way until my wedding night. I can't think of a more precious gift to give my husband than my virginity. However, I do not condemn those who have had sex...my roommate here at school and I are best of friends, and she has slept with a former boyfriend.
I also do not believe in the drinking of alcohol, but do not condemn those who do drink it. I did not grow up around alcohol and was always taught that it was something God has taught us not to do. (Also, a member of my family was an alcoholic and there are studies done that if someone in your family is an alcoholic, it is more likely that you, yourself, will be one, so my family and I stay away from it for that reason also). Just in the last few weeks was I exposed to most of my friends in my major drinking...they were very sweet about it and asked me if it offended me. Know what I said? "No, because I was taught one thing while growing up, while everyone else in the room did not grow up in my family, so they were taught other things." However, should my sister or brother come up to me and tell me that they are drinking, I'd be hugely disappointed in them, b/c I know what they were taught.
Hope no one was offended from this post. Just stating something from my point of view...and yes, I do know that everyone has a different point of view.
Catherine
Quote from: Jeysie on February 27, 2004, 10:58:28 PM
I believe humanity itself is the truth. To be honest, I consider the question of whether or not God exists to be irrelevant. We can't live our lives thinking that some mysterious force will come in and save us if things go badly. We need to rely on ourselves and each other to build this world into a better place. Yes, if God does exist, He may pitch in to help, but is He going to do the work for us? I doubt it. As the saying goes, "God helps those who help themselves." Trust in yourself, trust in your fellow human being, do good deeds with your own hands, and the rest will fall into place as it will, there's nothing to be done other than your best. If God is up there, I'm sure He can take good care of Himself... right now it's humanity that needs our collective attention. (shrug)
Peace & Luv, Liz
Amen :)
I am a Christian and I enjoy the Harry Potter books. It is just a fantasy and it is fun reading about good battling evil. I also am amused how a boy can say Voldemort and almost everyone else is afraid to say his name.
I just saw the Passion of Christ on Thursday night. I suggest that everyone see it, except maybe not young children because it really has a lot of blood. Talk about an intense movie. I felt really physically drained after seeing the movie. The cinematography was fantasic.
passion of Christ --- I did not want an emotion face -- sorry
I so want to see the Passion of the Christ! I'm probably going to wait until I go home and can see it with my parents...but my roommate told me that a box of tissues is needed!
You can edit posts yanno. ;)
I have not seen the Passion of Christ yet, perhaps when I get the free time. It certainly sounds like an interesting movie!
Trust me -- Interesting is certainly an understatement for this movie ;)
Thanks Catherine :)
I had been going at it on this thread for a couple days straight and it was late... (and I have to admit, I was more than a little grouchy)... Hmm... more people seem to post on this thread when Jeysie and I shut up... It's probably better that way ::) Hey, have any of you seen the Passion, and what did you guys think of it? (I havnt seen it yet)
Well, gotta go and get lunch... God Bless ;D
Quote from: FataliOmega on March 02, 2004, 11:45:24 AMHmm... more people seem to post on this thread when Jeysie and I shut up... It's probably better that way
Everybody always posts more when I shut up. :suffer:
Peace & Luv, Liz
lol, well feel good with yourself jeysie, you can certainly admit you are the only and unique one that has beated me up in posts lenghts ever :P, and geez... lol you can keep that recognition Im sooo not even going to try to beat you up hahaha :D
I occasionally go into the lengthy posts-area too, but not as often and not as long as Jeysie. However, with me, the written word is always more lengthy than the spoken word.
I'm totally sided with Jeysie on this issue, but I too believe everyone ie entitled to have their own opinions on these matters. To all and everyone, a good night from Flanders, Europe (11:30 PM).
42. That's allllll you need to know in life. ;)
It has nothing to do with that. ;P
I agree. I have friends that are Jewish and feel no less for them after seeing the movie. If you had to blame someone, it could be the Pharisees, I guess.
I think Mel Gibson does some great movies. I really enjoyed Braveheart --- yes gory but great music in my opinion.
The movie is awesome! period!