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The Royal Archives => Fan Feedback => Topic started by: koko_99_2001 on July 21, 2010, 05:50:22 AM

Title: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: koko_99_2001 on July 21, 2010, 05:50:22 AM
Ok, so I don't know about everyone else, but my mouth dropped open during the ending video. I thought it was awesome...and so many questions! What are your theories??
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: crayauchtin on July 21, 2010, 10:43:29 AM
The Fates have started using illegal substances!!! They're hallucinating the entire adventure!!! :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Tolin on July 21, 2010, 02:08:32 PM
Alexander relives the events of KQIII... now in stunning 3D!

More seriously, it's mostly expository.  Alexander and Rosella are central to ending
whatever happened a thousand years back.  I don't know how much we can infer
beyond what it makes fairly obvious.  Rosella's light and innocence, and the darkness
residing in Alexander's heart through his own childhood under Manannan - both are
opposites of the other, and likely play a part moving forward.

I honestly think Alex's past will haunt him... not physically, necessarily, but it will be
part of the struggle he'll have to face.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: tessspoon on July 21, 2010, 04:33:46 PM
I honestly think Alex's past will haunt him... not physically, necessarily, but it will be
part of the struggle he'll have to face.
Agree... some of the released dialogue points that way.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 21, 2010, 11:01:37 PM
The Fates created a prophecy that is entwined with the Silver Cloaks and the Black Cloaks. Rosella is going through a "light/silver" realm and Alexander is going through a "dark/black" realm. They apparently have some sort of test to accomplish. I just hope Alexander going through the "dark realm" won't tempt him to become a dark wizard like Manannan.  :(

What I want to know is, why was Alexander possessed? Shadrack went up to Rosella and just whacked her with a face-full of evilness, but Alexander was possessed before he passed out.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: B'rrr on July 22, 2010, 12:31:51 AM
What I want to know is, why was Alexander possessed? Shadrack went up to Rosella and just whacked her with a face-full of evilness, but Alexander was possessed before he passed out.

I asked a likewise question here (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8783.0).

it never really got answered  ;)
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: liggy002 on July 22, 2010, 01:49:57 AM
What I want to know is, why was Alexander possessed? Shadrack went up to Rosella and just whacked her with a face-full of evilness, but Alexander was possessed before he passed out.

I asked a likewise question here (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8783.0).

it never really got answered  ;)

Of course not, because the reason is probably central to the storyline.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Allronix on July 22, 2010, 05:52:35 AM
It's probably cross of reading the King's Quest Companion and an overly-heavy dose of the AGD King's Quest working its dubious magic on my fanficcer's brain...but I've got theories.  

As for why Alex was nailed first and why Shadrak didn't even have to touch him? The Black Cloak is VERY fond of Xanatos Gambits, and long-term schemes. Just check Alhazred and Mordak! Or Dahlia, if you want to go diving through the supplementary material for KQ1. If we're going with the idea that the Society is a nemesis for Graham and family and has been for a while, then the answer is simple.

While Mannanan has always been fond of young boys, enslaving them, and killing them off at the cusp of manhood (any further speculation on my part goes into Brain Bleach territory)...Alex wasn't an ordinary case. The Black Cloak had taken him specifically as an attack on Graham. Furthermore, Mannanan had his hooks on Alex for at least sixteen years. There are all kinds of escape clause curses, time bomb spells, dark rituals, and general bad juju they could have worked on him. So what if he had somehow managed the impossible and escaped Mannanan - they still could have him back under their control or dead at any time they wanted.

Rosella? If you want to work some of the usual twin tropes, they had a hook in her via Alex, but probably a weaker version. Shadrack had to go in for something quick and direct to activate it.

The content of the twins' dreams seems to reflect their lives and adventures.  To use a DCU analogy, Alex would end up with a green ring of willpower, while Rosella is a blue ring of hope.  Alexander literally went to hell and back, and it was treated very seriously while Ooga Booga Land wouldn't be out of place in a Tim Burton comedy. Tamir, despite Lolotte's hostile takeover, was a fairly welcoming and friendly place. The same could not be said for Llewdor. Did both of them risk their necks to save unfamiliar lands? You bet. Did they both endure some severe ordeals to do it? Sure. However, their approach is different.

Rosella acts, but she also inspires others to act. She did it twice with Edgar, first inspiring him to slip her the key to her cell and the second time making him break Malicia's brainwashing long enough to stop her. She gave Dr. Cadaver a spine - literally. She was also the one who inspired her own brother into finding her and himself by offering herself to the dragon. I'd expect Graham to spend a lot of time in her dream trying to convince people to help in some form.

Alex is better at direct action, at surviving. He's not as good at finding allies. No slouch, certainly...but it's not his element.   He's better at trickery, as evidenced by his fake suicide in front of Shamir and his use of Bump-on-a-Log and Stick in the Mud's rivalry to get the swamp ooze. He also transmutes the dark magic of the spell books into good uses. Expect Graham's trip here to be full of unfriendly elements requiring an underhanded move or two.

As for the odd prophesy? Again, could be the AGD talking, but there was something in the King's Quest Companion stating that their universe isn't as stable as it seems. There's some kind of magic that created it when the sorcerers withdrew from the universe into the multiverse in order to save themselves. If the Black Cloak is undermining the very magic that keeps the KQ universe alive and separated from other realms, or there's a weakness in the magic the Black Cloak is exploiting, things could go very badly very quickly.



 
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 22, 2010, 07:17:37 AM
What I want to know is, why was Alexander possessed? Shadrack went up to Rosella and just whacked her with a face-full of evilness, but Alexander was possessed before he passed out.

I asked a likewise question here (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8783.0).

it never really got answered  ;)

Thanks, I have a slightly better outlook on the event now. Alexander being "resistant" to the dark magic is very plausible. It still doesn't answer anything, but it's believable nonetheless.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: GwydionAE on July 22, 2010, 08:12:26 AM
I really like your theories, Allronix!  I agree with your thinking that Mannanan could easily have worked his "bad juju" on Alexander, especially considering KQ villians' other long term schemes and their BCS connections.  And you brought up some interesting points about Alex and Rosella's dreams and the differences between their experiences.

I also agree with Tolin and tessspoon about Alexander having to face his past.  I'd almost go so far as to say I'd be disappointed if he didn't as some of the discussions on the forums and such have got me thinking about how staying with Mannanan effected him quite a bit lately.

I'm curious about the black haired guy.  He is wearing a silver cloak, so perhaps he's the one following Graham around?
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Allronix on July 22, 2010, 09:48:44 AM
Hey, I've been a fanfic writer for over 20 years. Crackpot theories and finding nasty implications are my business. I still think I'm the only one who ever came up with a Space Quest angst fic, though.  Speaking of that, Silver Lining prompted me to go and find my abandoned SQ/KQ crossover...

If I was going for a critical hit on Graham? Remember, Alexander was his greatest failure. He brought back the three treasures. He got Valanice out of imprisonment. He liberated his family and Serenia from Mordak's threat...but he couldn't save Alexander. There could be some lingering fear on Graham's part and some subconscious anger on Alex's part in regards to that.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: crayauchtin on July 22, 2010, 10:24:26 AM
Allronix -- I had come up with something similar (as far as the curse being planted long ago while Alex was enslaved) thinking about this yesterday after I went out clubbing -- yes, I was at a club thinking about King's Quest. :-\ Oh well!

Anyways, I'd love to see some of your fanfics! In the Asylum section of the forum there's a perfect sub-forum for it! Pleeeeeease? :P
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Allronix on July 22, 2010, 02:32:29 PM
Check the fanfic section. http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8990.0 I dug up one of my oldies and posted it there.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 23, 2010, 02:27:19 AM
If I was going for a critical hit on Graham? Remember, Alexander was his greatest failure. He brought back the three treasures. He got Valanice out of imprisonment. He liberated his family and Serenia from Mordak's threat...but he couldn't save Alexander. There could be some lingering fear on Graham's part and some subconscious anger on Alex's part in regards to that.

I wouldn't go as far as to say Alex's kidnapping was Graham's greatest failure. If you look at the big scheme of things, he couldn't stop Mordack from stealing his castle and family in the first place, but he was able to redeem himself by saving them. Even in TSL, he couldn't stop Shadrack from attacking his children, but he will (hopefully) save them. The one exception, or Alexander's kidnapping, couldn't be helped. For some reason, the Magic Mirror clouded up and King Graham couldn't find where Alex was. Not really a failure, as much as misfortune. If it weren't for the Magic Mirror, Graham wouldn't have been King cause he would only have two treasures. He couldn't save Valanice, cause he wouldn't know she was in Kolyma. The Magic Mirror even helped Rosella find Tamir, and Alexander find Cassima. I wouldn't call losing Alex "a failure" just because the Mirror wasn't "active" at the time of his kidnapping. In fact, the Mirror didn't work until Alex came back to Daventry on his own. That's convenience for you.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Allronix on July 23, 2010, 03:21:44 AM
I'd argue that. Yes, Mordak capturing the castle and family was pretty bad, but they were rescued quickly. There was something Graham could do. He went out and did it, and it was awesome, the owl notwithstanding.

Being arguably the Biggest D*mn Hero on that planet and being unable to spare your son sixteen years of slavery and torture at the hands of your enemies? Then, being so demoralized by the dragon's repeated ravages of Daventry that you can only watch as your last shred of hope offers herself as a sacrifice to it?

Mordak's little stunt was nothing in comparison.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 23, 2010, 03:32:31 AM
I'd argue that. Yes, Mordak capturing the castle and family was pretty bad, but they were rescued quickly. There was something Graham could do. He went out and did it, and it was awesome, the owl notwithstanding.

Being arguably the Biggest D*mn Hero on that planet and being unable to spare your son sixteen years of slavery and torture at the hands of your enemies? Then, being so demoralized by the dragon's repeated ravages of Daventry that you can only watch as your last shred of hope offers herself as a sacrifice to it?

Mordak's little stunt was nothing in comparison.

I'd agree with that. But labeling it as a "failure" is demoralizing in itself. It was pure misfortune. What did Graham do to have those atrocities happen to him? Nothing. What could he have done to spare his kingdom and family from said atrocities? Nothing. Not failure, just wrong place, wrong time. Not to mention, having an entire organization of dark wizards hellbent on wiping out your very existence is a bit of a downer too.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: crayauchtin on July 23, 2010, 10:58:18 AM
I think, as Baggins pointed out, he had the magic shield. Why couldn't he and his armies use that to stop the dragon? Probably because he was already so demoralized by failing to find his son.

....unless, and I only JUST thought of this theory for whatever reason, all three of the treasures stopped working when Alexander was kidnapped. Oh. My. God! That just solved a plot hole in the fanfic/Companion I'm starting to write. I'm a freaking genius!
(Well, to be fair, I'm probably going to go with "A little bit of both" :P)
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: KatieHal on July 23, 2010, 12:42:07 PM
The exact mechanics of how that shield worked were never explained, either. Maybe it only worked for the guy holding it. Or against swords/armies.

Now I'm enjoying the image of tiny tiny print on the inside of the shield at the bottom that reads "May not work against dragons." :D
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: wilco64256 on July 23, 2010, 12:44:31 PM
And someone reading said print in a total panic as the shield starts melting.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 23, 2010, 04:40:44 PM
I think, as Baggins pointed out, he had the magic shield. Why couldn't he and his armies use that to stop the dragon? Probably because he was already so demoralized by failing to find his son.

....unless, and I only JUST thought of this theory for whatever reason, all three of the treasures stopped working when Alexander was kidnapped. Oh. My. God! That just solved a plot hole in the fanfic/Companion I'm starting to write. I'm a freaking genius!
(Well, to be fair, I'm probably going to go with "A little bit of both" :P)

That's an interesting assessment. Not only would Daventry suffer from war, but the Magic Chest would stop producing coins, so they would suffer from a depression (although having an infinite of supply of currency would result in an inflation).
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Baggins on July 23, 2010, 04:49:30 PM
Quote
unless, and I only JUST thought of this theory for whatever reason, all three of the treasures stopped working when Alexander was kidnapped. Oh. My. God! That just solved a plot hole in the fanfic/Companion I'm starting to write. I'm a freaking genius!

Yes, that's one of my theories as well... I mean it would explain alot of things, including why they were worried about running out of gold in See No Weevil.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Jafar on July 23, 2010, 08:25:32 PM
And someone reading said print in a total panic as the shield starts melting.
Funny thing is, the shield actually DOES melt if you bring it to the dragon in KQ1. :P
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: GwydionAE on July 23, 2010, 11:05:46 PM
I actually have to agree about Alexander being Graham's biggest "failure".  To those of us playing the games it might not be, but try thinking of it from a parent's perspective.  As Alexander's father, you'd think that being unable to save his son while having done so many other great things (even before the games he was Daventry's best knight) would be seen - to him, at least - a failure.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 24, 2010, 04:47:24 AM
I actually have to agree about Alexander being Graham's biggest "failure".  To those of us playing the games it might not be, but try thinking of it from a parent's perspective.  As Alexander's father, you'd think that being unable to save his son while having done so many other great things (even before the games he was Daventry's best knight) would be seen - to him, at least - a failure.

I don't see how considering it to be a failure is constructive. If I were a parent, and I lost my son, and tried as I might, I couldn't find him. I think I would be showing more care and be grateful that he arrived home okay. I would like to think, "he's finally home", rather then "this is going to hurt my perfect adventuring record". The only reason I find the word "failure" to be an inaccurate metaphor for Graham's and Alexander's relationship is cause I can't detect any animosity between them.

Alexander grew up under the tutelage of a dark wizard that was going to eventually sever him from the living world but was willing to let him live so as to finish the chores in the house. Alexander being the heir to the kingdom of Daventry is comparable to winning a lottery ticket. From where Alexander was standing (over Manannan's kitty-self), he could have everything he wanted, a family, a home, a real father, the glamorous lifestyle, etc. I don't see how Alexander would hold a grudge if he wanted to fit in with these people.

Also, Graham was in a very dark time with the kingdom of Daventry being in the wreck that it was. Would Graham truly feel guilty over something that couldn't be stopped almost 2 decades ago? As Alexander comes into Castle Daventry with Rosella at his side and the dragon's three heads dangling in his arms, would Graham ponder, "He is my only failure", or would he think "This is my son!". So Alexander would get the family and home he always wanted, and Graham gets the son to pass his adventurer's cap on to. Saying Alexander was Graham's "failure" is so pessimistic, I'd rather think of Alexander being a "missing piece" to Graham's metaphorical puzzle (which is his complicated life). 
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: KatieHal on July 24, 2010, 06:32:14 AM
Of course it's not a constructive thought; but it's an emotional one, and a depressing one at that, so it's not really going to be.

I think you may be thinking of this not quite in the way they meant. Alexander himself isn't Graham's greatest failure--losing him and never being able to recover him is. Of course when Alex returned he'd be overjoyed! But the idea they're talking about is that while Graham was able to save his kingdom and his wife, he was never able to recover their son no matter what he tried. He failed to do that, and as a good and loving father, his instinct of course would be to protect his children at all costs. But he couldn't do that in this case.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 24, 2010, 08:47:04 AM
Of course it's not a constructive thought; but it's an emotional one, and a depressing one at that, so it's not really going to be.

I think you may be thinking of this not quite in the way they meant. Alexander himself isn't Graham's greatest failure--losing him and never being able to recover him is. Of course when Alex returned he'd be overjoyed! But the idea they're talking about is that while Graham was able to save his kingdom and his wife, he was never able to recover their son no matter what he tried. He failed to do that, and as a good and loving father, his instinct of course would be to protect his children at all costs. But he couldn't do that in this case.

Oh, I understand that. I just don't think it'd be a lasting effect. The fact that Alexander was able to come back to Daventry on his own, and slay the three headed dragon would make a father proud. So the "I'm a failure for losing my son" wouldn't be a long-lasting emotion, I would think. I understand the reasoning behind what they're saying, I just don't agree with it.

Also, there were many things that Graham wasn't able to do. He couldn't prevent his family from being kidnapped by Mordack, he wasn't able to save Daventry from Lucreto, he couldn't save Alexander and Rosella from Shadrack. But regardless of these events, Graham seems to overcome and succeed. So there were many "failures", but it doesn't sound right to call them failures when Graham didn't do anything in the first place to deserve the treatment. Like I said earlier, it's just an organization of dark wizards hellbent on pissing him off. 
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Baggins on July 24, 2010, 09:00:02 AM
Quote
Funny thing is, the shield actually DOES melt if you bring it to the dragon in KQ1.
It does? That's the original KQ1 I'm reckoning (the shield is the last item you get in the remake)? Hmm need to try it out.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: crayauchtin on July 24, 2010, 03:13:03 PM
Oh, I understand that. I just don't think it'd be a lasting effect. The fact that Alexander was able to come back to Daventry on his own, and slay the three headed dragon would make a father proud. So the "I'm a failure for losing my son" wouldn't be a long-lasting emotion, I would think. I understand the reasoning behind what they're saying, I just don't agree with it.
People are incapable of having multiple emotions?
Graham could view his inability to find/rescue Alexander as a failure, and yet be proud of his son for his accomplishments. And I don't know that there would be animosity either (as you said, there isn't any): Graham's emotional feelings of failure wouldn't have any effect on Alexander's view of him. No doubt, Alexander understands -- he only found out from an oracle in Llewdor. How is Graham supposed to accomplish that? I'm sure Alexander isn't happy that he wasn't saved, but I don't think he would blame anyone except Manannan for that.

Quote
Also, there were many things that Graham wasn't able to do. He couldn't prevent his family from being kidnapped by Mordack, he wasn't able to save Daventry from Lucreto, he couldn't save Alexander and Rosella from Shadrack. But regardless of these events, Graham seems to overcome and succeed. So there were many "failures", but it doesn't sound right to call them failures when Graham didn't do anything in the first place to deserve the treatment. Like I said earlier, it's just an organization of dark wizards hellbent on pissing him off.
You seem to be misunderstanding. *We* are not saying Graham is a failure. We are saying, Graham -- in his own mind -- likely views it as a failure. He's always been able to rectify the problem (excepting the Lucreto incident, but Connor did it and Graham was encased in stone, so I think it's fair to say he's not taking that one too personally, other than showering Connor with gratitude).
However, his son, his heir was kidnapped and he never found him. Emotionally, that takes a toll. It takes a further toll when said son returns on his own after a traumatic life. No, there's no animosity. Yes, Graham can still be proud of Alexander. But it's just silly to think he just shoved it aside as a "oh whatever" that he didn't save Alexander.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 24, 2010, 06:20:23 PM
People are incapable of having multiple emotions?
Graham could view his inability to find/rescue Alexander as a failure, and yet be proud of his son for his accomplishments. And I don't know that there would be animosity either (as you said, there isn't any): Graham's emotional feelings of failure wouldn't have any effect on Alexander's view of him. No doubt, Alexander understands -- he only found out from an oracle in Llewdor. How is Graham supposed to accomplish that? I'm sure Alexander isn't happy that he wasn't saved, but I don't think he would blame anyone except Manannan for that.

I wouldn't say he would be incapable of feeling multiple emotions, I just think the overall thought of him losing Alexander would be somehow redeemed through the time he spent with him. Not to say the thought wouldn't linger in his mind, but that he may one day forgive himself. I see your point. I agree with everything you said. I think I just have to chalk it up to the terminology of "failure". I don't think it would be a failure if he redeemed himself.

You seem to be misunderstanding. *We* are not saying Graham is a failure. We are saying, Graham -- in his own mind -- likely views it as a failure. He's always been able to rectify the problem (excepting the Lucreto incident, but Connor did it and Graham was encased in stone, so I think it's fair to say he's not taking that one too personally, other than showering Connor with gratitude).
However, his son, his heir was kidnapped and he never found him. Emotionally, that takes a toll. It takes a further toll when said son returns on his own after a traumatic life. No, there's no animosity. Yes, Graham can still be proud of Alexander. But it's just silly to think he just shoved it aside as a "oh whatever" that he didn't save Alexander.

Graham may see it in his own mind as a failure, but I wouldn't be one to debate the psychology of a fictional character. So I'll agree with you for the benefit of the doubt. Like I said, I had a misunderstanding of how the word "failure" was being used. I don't think Graham is made out of stone (no pun intended for the MoE reference). I wouldn't think that Graham would ignore the fact that Alexander was kidnapped either, I just wouldn't think it a positive mindset to constantly burden himself with the thought. But I get what you're saying.     
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Rosella on July 24, 2010, 09:37:46 PM
I wouldn't think that Graham would ignore the fact that Alexander was kidnapped either, I just wouldn't think it a positive mindset to constantly burden himself with the thought. But I get what you're saying.     

That's really a wonderfully positive outlook to have. Obviously, Graham was heartbroken to have his son stolen from him, but probably, Graham, tasked with ruling the kingdom and such, would be forced at some point to adopt such an outlook to just get through the day (How long do you think you could go on thinking, erroneously or not, that your son was kidnapped and may be dead, and it's all because you couldn't save him? I mean, truly, think of all of the suffering you would have to go through, or worse, that your beloved wife would have to go through...) And of course, once you son came back, it would be the most wonderful day of your life, but that doesn't mean that, in the darkest times of your life, your mind wouldn't go back to that mindset, that you could ignore that voice in your head saying "You couldn't save him once, what makes you think you could do it now?"
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: colin on July 24, 2010, 10:43:05 PM
Yes graham must be mentally upset about not being able to save alexander. But of course think about all the people in daventry that were killed by the three headed dragon. The sacrifices every year and to top it off his
daughter was about to be sacrificed as well. Yes rosella survived but the dragon must still be also in the back of  graham's mind.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: GwydionAE on July 25, 2010, 03:06:53 AM
I wouldn't say he would be incapable of feeling multiple emotions, I just think the overall thought of him losing Alexander would be somehow redeemed through the time he spent with him. Not to say the thought wouldn't linger in his mind, but that he may one day forgive himself.
I agree that perhaps one day he might forgive himself.  But I think that - in the context of TSL - he wouldn't be able to just yet.  I would think that seeing his son who he couldn't save before lying there helpless would remind him of when he couldn't save him before and cause him to maybe doubt himself just a bit - not that he wouldn't be focused on doing everything he could while trying to ignore that, of course.  But it seems like both Graham and Alexander (and Rosella, of course!) in some way have to overcome Shadrack/the spell/the prophecy/etc, so perhaps going through that experience, helping his son as well as actually witnessing Alexander "in action", could help Graham come to terms with it.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 25, 2010, 06:19:43 AM
I agree that perhaps one day he might forgive himself.  But I think that - in the context of TSL - he wouldn't be able to just yet.  I would think that seeing his son who he couldn't save before lying there helpless would remind him of when he couldn't save him before and cause him to maybe doubt himself just a bit - not that he wouldn't be focused on doing everything he could while trying to ignore that, of course.  But it seems like both Graham and Alexander (and Rosella, of course!) in some way have to overcome Shadrack/the spell/the prophecy/etc, so perhaps going through that experience, helping his son as well as actually witnessing Alexander "in action", could help Graham come to terms with it.

I can agree with that. I understand the emotions he must be going through, but he never let anything get in the way of his duty as a King, as well as a father. So the doubt he would be feeling won't prevent him from trying to save his child. After all, he left his kids behind at the castle so he could go save them. That was a risk he was willing to take. So emotions play a big part, but Graham controls the emotions, so he can see what is truly important. It must be the courage he has developed from every one of his adventures. But I can guarantee that Graham will come to terms with the situation once he sees both of his children in action. Shadrack's got nothing on the royal family.  :P 
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: crayauchtin on July 25, 2010, 12:54:20 PM
I would say, during the dragon's attack on Daventry especially, it's likely that Graham repressed the emotions and adopted a positive outlook to do his duty as best as he could. But adopting a positive outlook doesn't necessarily indicate what's going on underneath the surface. Sometimes things happen that bring those feelings right back up despite one's best efforts -- the return of Alexander (as happy as it was) was probably one of those moments. The re-kidnapping of his entire family (although, as per usual, Graham swallows it all down and does his duty!), Alexander's presumed death at the beginning of KQ6 (remember, the crew (miraculously) made it home without Alex) and then, in TSL, the curse on his children. At this point, it's probably wearing away on Graham's psyche, trying to keep so much emotion bottled up.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Damar on July 27, 2010, 05:58:59 PM
I always felt that the final part of Kings Quest III in Daventry was one of the darker parts of Kings Quest and implies serious damage to Graham's psyche.  I mean here's a character who was always charging into impossible situations, trying to make things right, and would succeed (granted it's because we were playing him) yet at the final parts of Kings Quest III we see that Graham is a broken man.  He's locked up in the castle, the moat is drained, the whole countryside is in disarray, and the people of Daventry are being eaten as sacrifices.  We don't see Graham leading armies against the dragon, we don't see him questing to save the dragon himself.  He's locked up in the castle and he's a beaten man.

And don't get me wrong, that's nothing against Graham.  Alexander was 18 years old when he finally got home.  He was kidnapped after he was born and the dragon showed up not long afterwards.  So Graham had well over a decade of seeing the atrocities of the dragon, to say nothing of the personal grief of losing his only son.  And he probably did lead an army (unsuccessfully) against the dragon so he'd basically start seeing himself as an impotent leader in an occupied country.  Anyone would be broken after that.  And even after Alexander returned, he decided he was through adventuring and passed his hat on to his kids.  I think you could argue that the magic fruit Rosella got probably healed his mind just as much as his body.  It's a darker part of Graham we don't see much of.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Allronix on July 28, 2010, 11:32:36 AM
Good point, and it's one of the reasons I thought the AGD was "Better than Canon." The Air Gem tests actually touch on that. Here's Graham at his darkest hour; Alex is gone, Rosella has been sent to sacrifice, Daventry is in ashes and the Big Bad shows up to gloat. The highest-scoring ("in character") option is telling the guy to go to hell.   

Infamous Adventures also touched on it in their KQ3 remake, but not as deeply. They show a scene of Rosella being led to sacrifice as the vision the Llewdor oracle shows Alexander-Gwydion. The final shot is of Graham, alone, on his knees with grief.

I realize they aren't Sierra canon, but I still can't see things playing out any other way.
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Lambonius on July 28, 2010, 12:15:04 PM
Infamous Adventures also touched on it in their KQ3 remake, but not as deeply. They show a scene of Rosella being led to sacrifice as the vision the Llewdor oracle shows Alexander-Gwydion. The final shot is of Graham, alone, on his knees with grief.

I realize they aren't Sierra canon, but I still can't see things playing out any other way.

We have plans to fill in some of this story in Kingdom of Sorrow as well--there are spots here and there throughout the main story that allude to the dragon and other such things, though it's not really part of the main plot.  :)
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Fierce Deity on July 28, 2010, 02:48:09 PM
What I liked from the KQ3 remake was when Alex is returning to the castle, and Rose is filling him in on what he missed. She had said that Graham looked high and low for Alex, but to no avail. Although it's not canon, it shows that Graham was persistent in finding his son, despite losing the power of the Magic Mirror. Also, Graham and Alex were catching up with each other, and Alex was gloating about killing ole' Three Heads, and Graham was like, "When I was your age, I slayed a dragon as well (but it didn't have three heads)".

I liked AGDI's remakes a lot, but KQ3 was probably the best I think. It may just be because I'm a fan of Alex's character and background. I also can't wait to play Kingdom of Sorrow, and the remake of KQ4 (if Magic Mirror Games ever decides to release it).
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Lambonius on July 28, 2010, 03:14:50 PM
I liked AGDI's remakes a lot, but KQ3 was probably the best I think. It may just be because I'm a fan of Alex's character and background. I also can't wait to play Kingdom of Sorrow, and the remake of KQ4 (if Magic Mirror Games ever decides to release it).

I am SO excited about Kingdom of Sorrow.  Like giddy about it.  Lol.  I can't wait for people to see our work--it is so far beyond our KQ3 in terms of art, music, and cinematics--we've come up with some cool stuff, if I do say so myself.  Anyway--I shouldn't say too much more about it here or the guys will beat me.  :P  You will be in for a real treat though, I think.  It's a ways off though--so don't expect it anytime soon.  ;)
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: KatieHal on July 28, 2010, 04:00:21 PM
I'm also excited for KOS! Best of luck with your production process :)
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Lambonius on July 28, 2010, 04:23:21 PM
I'm also excited for KOS! Best of luck with your production process :)

Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Theories on the Ending Cryptic Video
Post by: Damar on July 28, 2010, 08:57:36 PM
I'm pretty excited about Kingdom of Sorrow as well.  And of course I'm pretty wicked psyched about Space Quest II!  They both look like they're going to be fantastic!