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The Royal Archives => Fan Feedback => Topic started by: scintilla77 on August 08, 2010, 02:10:29 PM

Title: Something that I noticed
Post by: scintilla77 on August 08, 2010, 02:10:29 PM
Has anyone else noticed that TSL is a lot like KQ6 so far?
 
I mean, in both games, you first have to prove that you're royalty by using something from Daventry (a ring in KQ6, a coin in TSL), then you have to convince the grumpy ferryman to help you.
 
In both games you also have to go see the oracle on the isle of the Sacred Mountain who talks to you about fate and then tells you to visit the isle of the Mists. Then when you get to the isle (again, in both games), the Archdruid tells you that in order to succeed, you have to travel to another realm/dimension, and he gives you clues how to get there.
 
Almost all the scenes in TSL are one's we've already been to in KQ6, and this is just in the first episode. The screenshots from the second episode look like we're going to more places we've already visited, and in the bookshop scene, Jollo's even sitting in that exact same chair!
 
I'm new here, so this stuff may have already been posted somewhere else, but I wanted to post it anyway because I thought it was really interesting.
 
What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 08, 2010, 02:14:32 PM
Immitation is the best form of flattery?
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 08, 2010, 02:43:08 PM
Almost all the scenes in TSL are one's we've already been to in KQ6

It is to be expected that when a game takes places in the same location another game did that you'll see some of the same areas.  More than a quarter of the scenes in Episode 1 weren't in KQ6, and we have quite a few more new areas coming in future Episodes as well.

Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Fierce Deity on August 08, 2010, 03:00:36 PM

Then when you get to the isle (again, in both games), the Archdruid tells you that in order to succeed, you have to travel to another realm/dimension, and he gives you clues how to get there.
 

I distinctly remember the Arch Druid trying to roast me over an open fire in KQ6. In TSL, he was rather quite friendly.

I understand why people are labeling TSL as a KQ6 Remake of sorts, but I simply see it as a new adventure, just going to the same places and meeting the same people. Besides, what do people expect when a character goes to the Oracle? Giving an ominous reading about fate and a prophecy is the only thing the Oracle CAN do. Same with the Arch Druid. People wouldn't go to the Arch Druid to buy a book, they would go to Ali's.

It's hard to see the game as something original when all we've seen so far has already been introduced in KQ6, but it's a guideline that needs to be followed to keep the game relevant to the official, canonical King's Quest universe.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: TheReturnofDMD on August 08, 2010, 03:10:18 PM

Then when you get to the isle (again, in both games), the Archdruid tells you that in order to succeed, you have to travel to another realm/dimension, and he gives you clues how to get there.
 

I distinctly remember the Arch Druid trying to roast me over an open fire in KQ6. In TSL, he was rather quite friendly.

I understand why people are labeling TSL as a KQ6 Remake of sorts, but I simply see it as a new adventure, just going to the same places and meeting the same people. Besides, what do people expect when a character goes to the Oracle? Giving an ominous reading about fate and a prophecy is the only thing the Oracle CAN do. Same with the Arch Druid. People wouldn't go to the Arch Druid to buy a book, they would go to Ali's.

It's hard to see the game as something original when all we've seen so far has already been introduced in KQ6, but it's a guideline that needs to be followed to keep the game relevant to the official, canonical King's Quest universe.

Wasn't the guideline/formula in every one of the KQ games to go to a new place, outside of maybe beginning in Daventry in a cut-scene? I mean the only games that returned to an old location are KQ3 and MoE, and in MoE we visited a different part of Daventry than in KQ1 with all new characters and a completely different layout.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Fierce Deity on August 08, 2010, 03:15:40 PM
Almost all the scenes in TSL are one's we've already been to in KQ6

It is to be expected that when a game takes places in the same location another game did that you'll see some of the same areas.  More than a quarter of the scenes in Episode 1 weren't in KQ6, and we have quite a few more new areas coming in future Episodes as well.



Something I had noticed in Episode 1 when I stepped outside of the castle; I tried to take the left-hand path to see if it would wrap around to the side of the castle like it did in KQ6, but I just ended up at the Fork in the road. Seeing as how the protagonists are no longer enemies of the Crown, it seems pointless to try to sneak into the castle, but I was curious as to whether that area would make a reappearance for whatever reason.

Or is that area too :suffer: worthy?
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 08, 2010, 03:20:23 PM
Quote
are KQ3 and MoE, and in MoE we visited a different part of Daventry than in KQ1 with all new characters and a completely different layout

To be fair, the layout of Daventry in KQ3 is different than the layout in KQ1. The two maps don't fit on top of each other. The ancient well was no where near the Door into Mountain.

Beyond that, in KQ3, Daventry is only a small part of the game towards the end. In MOE, Daventry is only the first area of the game in the beginning (the rest of the game is visiting a bunch of assorted lands).
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: TheReturnofDMD on August 08, 2010, 03:22:10 PM
Quote
are KQ3 and MoE, and in MoE we visited a different part of Daventry than in KQ1 with all new characters and a completely different layout

To be fair, the layout of Daventry in KQ3 is different than the layout in KQ1. The two maps don't fit on top of each other.

Beyond that, in KQ3, Daventry is only a small part of the game towards the end. In MOE, Daventry is only the first area of the game in the beginning (the rest of the game is visiting a bunch of assorted lands).

Right. In both cases, Daventry isn't EXACTLY the same as it was in KQ1. I mean if Roberta had wanted she could've made the Daventry level of MoE essentialy a 3D version of the land in KQ1.

Going back to old lands or old characters was never really the spirit of KQ. It was about new lands, new colorful NPCs, new adventures.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Fierce Deity on August 08, 2010, 03:24:37 PM

Then when you get to the isle (again, in both games), the Archdruid tells you that in order to succeed, you have to travel to another realm/dimension, and he gives you clues how to get there.
 

I distinctly remember the Arch Druid trying to roast me over an open fire in KQ6. In TSL, he was rather quite friendly.

I understand why people are labeling TSL as a KQ6 Remake of sorts, but I simply see it as a new adventure, just going to the same places and meeting the same people. Besides, what do people expect when a character goes to the Oracle? Giving an ominous reading about fate and a prophecy is the only thing the Oracle CAN do. Same with the Arch Druid. People wouldn't go to the Arch Druid to buy a book, they would go to Ali's.

It's hard to see the game as something original when all we've seen so far has already been introduced in KQ6, but it's a guideline that needs to be followed to keep the game relevant to the official, canonical King's Quest universe.

Wasn't the guideline/formula in every one of the KQ games to go to a new place, outside of maybe beginning in Daventry in a cut-scene? I mean the only games that returned to an old location are KQ3 and MoE, and in MoE we visited a different part of Daventry than in KQ1 with all new characters and a completely different layout.


I'm personally considering TSL to be an exception to the rule, simply because it's not being made by the original developers. A new area, with a brand new cast of characters would be welcome, I'm sure, but it's easy for them to 'mess it up' in accordance to what fans would expect. In a way, you could call it "Playing it safe", and I think that's perfectly fine given the circumstances.

And what I meant by 'guideline' was that the location and setting for the game was already made up for them (it being the setting from KQ6), they just needed to fill the setting with their plot, characters, progression, puzzles, etc.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 08, 2010, 03:27:52 PM
Quote
Going back to old lands or old characters was never really the spirit of KQ. It was about new lands, new colorful NPCs, new adventures.

True with the exception of Old Gnome (KQ1/3), Cassima (KQ5/6), and Edgar (KQ4/7), and a few no-named encounters that reused sprites (dwarf, enchanter/sorcerer), I don't think the games had very many "reoccuring characters".

The Wizard in MOE, almost became Crispin, but they never made a point of it.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Lambonius on August 08, 2010, 03:43:29 PM


I'm personally considering TSL to be an exception to the rule, simply because it's not being made by the original developers. A new area, with a brand new cast of characters would be welcome, I'm sure, but it's easy for them to 'mess it up' in accordance to what fans would expect. In a way, you could call it "Playing it safe", and I think that's perfectly fine given the circumstances.

Actually, I think it would be MUCH safer to create a whole new area with new characters and events exactly for the reason that you WOULDN'T have all the nitpickers comparing every little thing to the game that came before.  That way, since it was something completely original, it'd be a lot easier to accept things like differences in tone and character/dialogue style from previous games, because we know that those are unique creations of POS, not explicitly borrowed and recreated characters and areas from KQ6.  By so explicitly and exactly attempting to reproduce the land (and even more than that, the EXACT SCENES AND ANGLES) from KQ6, the team automatically opens themselves up to direct comparisons, and essentially sets themselves up for harsher criticism than they'd receive if they had attempted to create something wholly original.  
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Fierce Deity on August 08, 2010, 03:58:16 PM


I'm personally considering TSL to be an exception to the rule, simply because it's not being made by the original developers. A new area, with a brand new cast of characters would be welcome, I'm sure, but it's easy for them to 'mess it up' in accordance to what fans would expect. In a way, you could call it "Playing it safe", and I think that's perfectly fine given the circumstances.

Actually, I think it would be MUCH safer to create a whole new area with new characters and events exactly for the reason that you WOULDN'T have all the nitpickers comparing every little thing to the game that came before.  That way, since it was something completely original, it'd be a lot easier to accept things like differences in tone and character/dialogue style from previous games, because we know that those are unique creations of POS, not explicitly borrowed and recreated characters and areas from KQ6.  By so explicitly and exactly attempting to reproduce the land (and even more than that, the EXACT SCENES AND ANGLES) from KQ6, the team automatically opens themselves up to direct comparisons, and essentially sets themselves up for harsher criticism than they'd receive if they had attempted to create something wholly original.  

Valid point. I'm giving PO Studios a chance to make something out of this opportunity. They have promised original areas and original characters, so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, most people won't give them that much. I haven't really even made my own personal thread about what I think of the game yet. Many people have already jumped on the "Episode 1 was AWESOME!" bandwagon, but as much as I liked being reintroduced to the series, I'm really waiting for Episode 2 before I state my opinion of what I think.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: scintilla77 on August 08, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
I'm not saying that the way things happened in TSL was wrong at all, but still, think how it might have been if Rosella and Edgar's wedding had been in Etheria instead of the Green Isles.* We could've had the same general plot, but we would be able to see all kinds of new locations and maybe meet some new characters (Etheria looked so big in the KQ7 ending video, but we only got to explore a little piece of it in KQ7). We could've explored Oberon and Titania's castle, then used a flying ship to travel to the island where that portal to the Fates' world is, and then they would tell you what was going on and how to lift the curse.

Again, I'm not saying that this is what TSL SHOULD have done, it was just something I thought of.
 

*BTW, I still don't get why R+E were getting married in the Green Isles and not Etheria or Daventry. Was this explained in the game somewhere?
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 08, 2010, 05:01:51 PM
Quote
I'm not saying that the way things happened in TSL was wrong at all, but still, think how it might have been if Rosella and Edgar's wedding had been in Etheria instead of the Green Isles.*
It's interesting to note that in the Authorized KQ7 Hintguide, and King's Quest Companion, the rumors of the wedding was it was going to take place in Daventry, go figure.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Fierce Deity on August 08, 2010, 06:10:02 PM
I'm not saying that the way things happened in TSL was wrong at all, but still, think how it might have been if Rosella and Edgar's wedding had been in Etheria instead of the Green Isles.

There was actually early screenshots of what the game was going to look like back when it was still called KQIX that showed Graham standing in what looked to be Etheria. I'm sure the idea of having a wedding in Daventry or Etheria was tossed around, however, I actually liked that it was in The Green Isles. It doesn't make much sense, but The Land of the Green Isles was my favorite location out of the entire series. Just the large array of diverse characters makes the place so intriguing. I wasn't the biggest fan of Etheria, but then again, I wasn't the biggest fan of KQ7 (and it's Disney-ness).

The way I'm looking at it, Alexander was a brand new King and probably still had to heal the relations between the isles, and couldn't afford to travel around like King Oberon and King Graham. It wasn't just Edgar and Rosella's wedding, it was also the twins' birthday as well. So he probably offered to allow the couple to marry in the Isle of the Crown so he could partake in the festivities as well (it's probably Alexander's excuse to get both birthday cake and wedding cake). 
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 08, 2010, 06:24:48 PM
This is a major reason why the game is taking place in the Land of the Green Isles.  Certainly there are people who would recognize locales from any game of the series, but KQ6 is by far the most well-known game in the series.  Plus it offers a really wide variety of locations within the same general game area.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Lambonius on August 08, 2010, 06:29:29 PM
This is a major reason why the game is taking place in the Land of the Green Isles.  Certainly there are people who would recognize locales from any game of the series, but KQ6 is by far the most well-known game in the series.  Plus it offers a really wide variety of locations within the same general game area.

Actually, I would think that limiting the game to 5 distinct pre-defined geographic islands rather than an ambiguously defined land like Etheria (or even Daventry) would be far more limiting when it comes to the variety of possible locations.  A little creativity is all it takes to come up with new locations.  And I would imagine that 90% of people that find their way to this website in the first place are probably familiar with the entire series (from at least a cursory standpoint,) not just KQ6.  So I don't buy that reasoning.

Show of hands of people who have only played KQ6 and no other game in the series.

...
...
...

Exactly.  ;)
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Allronix on August 08, 2010, 08:05:32 PM
I'm chalking it up to "It's the Green Isles. Nothing's going to run smooth."  :suffer:

Going with the idea that this is going to be a "farewell" of sorts, it makes sense to unravel it, starting with the Green Isles where the story begins. (And the one game 90% of the fandom will call the crown jewel). The Arch Druid also said we'd be headed back to Daventry, as the spell will only work there.

The contents of the twins' dreams? We're liable to see Llewdor and Tamir influences there. Judging from the trailer I found online, there is going to be a point where Graham confronts memories from Kolyma, too. So, through dreams and memories, this may be a surreal and bittersweet walk through all of the history we've build up. Again, there's a heaviness to all of this that gets me thinking the ending may not be "happily ever after."
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 08, 2010, 08:19:22 PM
And I would imagine that 90% of people that find their way to this website in the first place are probably familiar with the entire series (from at least a cursory standpoint,) not just KQ6.  So I don't buy that reasoning.

You might be surprised - quite a few people have played KQ6 and not all of the others, but very few people have played other games in the series but never 6.  I have yet to speak with anybody who has only played 6, but I have chatted with a number of people who have only played 6 and one or two of the others.

And yes we could have come up with an entirely new location, but that would make even less sense for the wedding (why are they getting married someplace nobody in the family has ever been before??) and using an existing location that people are familiar with gives us a basic outline of areas to work with from a game design standpoint.  At least we picked what most would likely agree is the best game in the series to build on.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: sahara on August 08, 2010, 08:25:17 PM
Actually, I think it would be MUCH safer to create a whole new area with new characters and events exactly for the reason that you WOULDN'T have all the nitpickers comparing every little thing to the game that came before.  That way, since it was something completely original, it'd be a lot easier to accept things like differences in tone and character/dialogue style from previous games, because we know that those are unique creations of POS, not explicitly borrowed and recreated characters and areas from KQ6.  By so explicitly and exactly attempting to reproduce the land (and even more than that, the EXACT SCENES AND ANGLES) from KQ6, the team automatically opens themselves up to direct comparisons, and essentially sets themselves up for harsher criticism than they'd receive if they had attempted to create something wholly original.  

You are so right.  This was one of my biggest concerns when I first played the demo.  I felt like I was playing KQ6... total deja vu... but a KQ6 with more limited gameplay.  I was very surprised that they copied the art style and scenes from KQ6 so much; I think it would have been more exciting to see a lot more new locations or at least different takes on previously-visited locations.  PO Studios clearly has the talent and ability to pull this off, as the 3D renderings in TSL are absolutely beautiful.  Let's hope future eipsodes have more new characters and locations to explore.  A few "old" locations would have been acceptable in TSL for nostalgia reasons, but the majority of the game should feel like a new, fresh adventure and not a retread.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 08, 2010, 08:26:37 PM
Up until a year ago, I had only played KQVI. In the last year, I played KQI, II, III, and V.

The whole reason I know about KQ in the first place is because it was bundled with an old Windows 95 computer we bought eons ago. I don't know if other KQ games were bundled as well, but if they weren't, it would mean that many people have played only KQVI.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Lambonius on August 08, 2010, 08:36:03 PM

You might be surprised - quite a few people have played KQ6 and not all of the others, but very few people have played other games in the series but never 6.  I have yet to speak with anybody who has only played 6, but I have chatted with a number of people who have only played 6 and one or two of the others.

That doesn't surprise me at all actually, I was just playing devil's advocate.  ;)

And yes we could have come up with an entirely new location, but that would make even less sense for the wedding (why are they getting married someplace nobody in the family has ever been before??) and using an existing location that people are familiar with gives us a basic outline of areas to work with from a game design standpoint.  At least we picked what most would likely agree is the best game in the series to build on.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that it would make sense for Rosella and Edgar to get married in an entirely new location, just that it would make a lot more sense for them to get married in one of their respective kingdoms, and that it would be more in keeping with the formula of the series if from there, the game moved on to an entirely original land.  Design choices aside, you can't really deny that it presents something of a plot oddity, if not a hole.  :)

(Posted on: August 08, 2010, 10:28:40 PM)



You are so right.  This was one of my biggest concerns when I first played the demo.  I felt like I was playing KQ6... total deja vu... but a KQ6 with more limited gameplay.  Let's hope future eipsodes have more new characters and locations to explore.

I understand why they chose to do it this way, I just think that there is a very fine line between homage and unoriginality.  If it's just a few scenes, it's a nice homage.  If you recreate 90% of the Green Isles exactly as it was shown in KQ6, I think it jumps over the line and starts to be uninspired.  I mean, if I wanted to explore the Green Isles I saw in KQ6, I'd just play KQ6.  I want to see new locations, or, if they have to be old locations, I want to see them from different angles and in entirely new ways.  So far, the Isle of the Crown in particular feels like an exact copy of KQ6, even with the few additional "new" areas.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 08, 2010, 08:40:18 PM
So far, the Isle of the Crown in particular feels like an exact copy of KQ6, even with the few additional "new" areas.

Even with the castle explorable in full 3D?  We've gotten quite a bit of positive feedback specifically about that and how people love that even though it's pretty much the exact same castle, it's a totally different way of exploring it.  And it has a garden now.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Lambonius on August 08, 2010, 08:44:58 PM
No no, that's nice, but to be honest, I think the castle in KQ6 feels a lot bigger and more mysterious (what with all the rooms in the basement, and the secret passages behind the walls and such.)  And a big part of that is that there were actually a lot of things to DO in those areas, whereas in TSL you have really just a few added hallways with doors you can't open, with only Graham's room and the garden to break things up.

Also, I wouldn't really call it a "totally different way of exploring it."  You're still basically walking around in third person view with a fixed camera (meaning that the player has no control over it--I realize it does pan and move.)  And as I said, there are actually a lot LESS areas available to explore than even in KQ6.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 08, 2010, 09:02:00 PM
Well in Episode 1 there are a lot less areas, true, but it is only the first episode and you didn't exactly get to explore the entire castle the first time you visited in KQ6 now did you?  Perhaps more will open up in time.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Lambonius on August 08, 2010, 09:14:30 PM
Well in Episode 1 there are a lot less areas, true, but it is only the first episode and you didn't exactly get to explore the entire castle the first time you visited in KQ6 now did you?  Perhaps more will open up in time.

Indeed you couldn't.  Fair enough.  :)
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 09, 2010, 02:42:46 AM
Quote
The way I'm looking at it, Alexander was a brand new King and probably still had to heal the relations between the isles, and couldn't afford to travel around like King Oberon and King Graham.


Ahh, well actually in classic fairy tale style, if you successfully get the good ending, we are told "the islands are no longer fueding, already the wounds are starting to heal. Discovering the stolen treasures has brought more peace to the land than anything else."

As Alexander says, "With Shamir's powers we can visit often." Of course in King's Questions they do have one of their visits back to Daventry.

Here a shot from the King's Quest Companion;
(http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:RoyalfamilyofDaventry.jpg)
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 09, 2010, 07:29:01 AM
Even with the castle explorable in full 3D?  We've gotten quite a bit of positive feedback specifically about that and how people love that even though it's pretty much the exact same castle, it's a totally different way of exploring it.  And it has a garden now.

Yes, this was completely awesome. Even though it's the same castle, it definitely felt like a new way of experiencing it.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 09, 2010, 08:33:36 AM
It's definitely cool, although I went "huh" about certain aspects where the blueprints in KQ6 and TSL differed in potrayal of the castle and its layout.

Like for example that door under the stairs was the Kitchen itself in KQ6, rather than a hallway. During the "short path", Alexander opens the door looks in sees its the kitchen, and can even go inside the kitchen  (the game describes a bit of what is in the kitchen). Plus that alcove on the top floor was circular in KQ6 rather rectangular.

Its also interesting bit of trivia that Graham's bedroom on the top floor, is described as being a "storage room" in KQ6.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Fierce Deity on August 09, 2010, 10:15:20 AM
Its also interesting bit of trivia that Graham's bedroom on the top floor, is described as being a "storage room" in KQ6.

Only the best for the King of Daventry.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: B'rrr on August 09, 2010, 10:22:51 AM
could be changed since then though  ;)
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 09, 2010, 10:23:45 AM
The castle didn't have a garden at all before, Alex decided he wanted one and so Shamir added a hallway leading to the garden he also created and then moved the kitchen further into the hallway.

He also converted what used to be a storage room into a rather nice guest room with a balcony and a view.

Or something like that.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Lambonius on August 09, 2010, 10:46:12 AM
Yes, Shamir is a genie who can poof the layout of the castle into something entirely new, but can't be bothered to help Alexander's father save his master's life.  ;)
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: KatieHal on August 09, 2010, 10:49:04 AM
How do you know he isn't? Like I said, Shamir's been busy...you'll find out what he's been up to....  :suffer:
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 09, 2010, 11:13:49 AM
Getting drunk on Mint Julep and Mojitos, and York Peppermint Patties.

Interesting bit of trivia, go into the game script, and it describes Shamir as "drunk" from the mints he's been eating, LOL
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Fierce Deity on August 09, 2010, 02:19:20 PM
How do you know he isn't? Like I said, Shamir's been busy...you'll find out what he's been up to....  :suffer:

I'm speculating that he went after Shadrack. When Graham asked if Shamir knew anything, he said it's like nothing he's ever seen. Shamir is probably trying to find out more about who the man was and what magic he used, while Graham is trying to wake up his kids. Seems reasonable. 
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: TheReturnofDMD on August 09, 2010, 03:23:42 PM
How do you know he isn't? Like I said, Shamir's been busy...you'll find out what he's been up to....  :suffer:

He wasn't busy in the intro. He was standing right next to Graham. He could've helped him then.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 09, 2010, 03:27:30 PM
Graham isn't Shamir's master.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 09, 2010, 03:29:05 PM
Shamir is "busy" after the incident, while Graham tries to save his children, and therefore not a feasible means of transport of means for Graham.

He could have transported Graham the first time, but he is not a permanent means of transport. Therefore Graham must use the ferry.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Fierce Deity on August 09, 2010, 03:42:15 PM
Shamir is "busy" after the incident, while Graham tries to save his children, and therefore not a feasible means of transport of means for Graham.

He could have transported Graham the first time, but he is not a permanent means of transport. Therefore Graham must use the ferry.

Very true. Shamir could have teleported Graham to the Isle of the Sacred Mountain, but if Shamir was busy doing other things, Graham would have been stuck on the island. His only way of getting off the isle would be imbibing the Nightshade berries.  :dead:
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: KatieHal on August 09, 2010, 03:53:15 PM
Exactly, which is pretty much the point Cesar made previously when the discussion of "why didn't Shamir help Graham travel around" came up before.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: crayauchtin on August 09, 2010, 04:11:14 PM
Getting drunk on Mint Julep and Mojitos, and York Peppermint Patties.

Interesting bit of trivia, go into the game script, and it describes Shamir as "drunk" from the mints he's been eating, LOL
When I ingest mint I usually end up drunk too.
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2q3au8p.jpg)
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 09, 2010, 05:59:03 PM
Gotta love mint.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Damar on August 10, 2010, 07:39:25 PM
It never actually occurred to me that Shamir was actually busy doing something.  I just figured that he couldn't really act because Alexander's still his master and since Alexander is basically in a coma, there's no one to order him about.  Plus, genies take on the attributes of their masters so I guess if a genie has a cognitively impaired master, there's not a whole lot that genie could do.  They always seemed like such a pragmatic bunch.  "Oh, you have my lamp now?  Ok, I'll do what you say."  "Oh, you stole my lamp from my last master?  Ok, I'll do what you say."
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 10, 2010, 07:41:34 PM
I like the idea that if the master is asleep the genie goes all loopy and useless.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 11, 2010, 12:40:11 AM
Graham didn't think about taking his bottle with him. That would change the master.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 11, 2010, 08:48:53 AM
Graham only takes things when it's unclear who the proper owner is.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: KatieHal on August 11, 2010, 08:54:58 AM
LOL, it'd be nice if that were true, but I know what Graham does in our game!
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: wilco64256 on August 11, 2010, 11:31:52 AM
*Or if they're not securely and immovably nailed to the floor, wall, pole, tree, door, etc.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: KatieHal on August 11, 2010, 11:39:51 AM
**And sometimes even then!
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 11, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
To quote Graham's dad;

"Boy if I have learned anything in my life, I have learned this: When in doubt, or in trouble, pick up anything that is not nailed down, and if it is, look for loose nails or boards. Check carefully into, under, above, below, and behind things. Read everything; you might learn something. Wear clean undergarments, brush after meals, and always remember: nothing is as it appears."
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Fierce Deity on August 11, 2010, 02:38:17 PM
To quote Graham's dad;

"Boy if I have learned anything in my life, I have learned this: When in doubt, or in trouble, pick up anything that is not nailed down, and if it is, look for loose nails or boards. Check carefully into, under, above, below, and behind things. Read everything; you might learn something. Wear clean undergarments, brush after meals, and always remember: nothing is as it appears."


Was that from one of the games or the Companion? It sounds familiar, I just can't remember where it's from.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 11, 2010, 02:41:08 PM
Is from the Companion, but its based on a quote that was often printed in the early Sierra games manuals or gameplay card, with its own additions.

It's based on what they used to call the "Rules for Adventure Games."

It might predate Sierra to Infocom, I'm not sure though.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 11, 2010, 02:48:07 PM
Is that all we know about Graham's dad?
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 11, 2010, 02:50:36 PM
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Sir_Hereward
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 11, 2010, 05:51:48 PM
I should have known you would have an article already written about that. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2010, 04:42:50 AM
We also know a tiny bit about his grandfather as well;
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Great-Grandfather
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 12, 2010, 01:01:38 PM
Very interesting. Is this all from in-game dialogue?
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2010, 01:23:29 PM
Ya, from Hoyle I. Here you go;


http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Graham_quotes_(Hoyle_I)

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Rosella_quotes_(Hoyle_I)

What I find interesting is that both Graham and Rosella speak in "ye olde english" style), quite a few "'Tis...", "thou", "methinks", etc; As a side note even Alexander in KQ6 has a few older style terms himsef, including "tis", "zounds", "gadzooks", and a few others. There were also the fairy godmother and little elf in KQ1 also used a few retro style terms.

There is some fun stuff for Roger Wilco too;
http://spacequest.wikia.com/wiki/Roger_Wilco_quotes_(Hoyle_I)
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 12, 2010, 01:38:31 PM
1. All of those pages were blank.

2. What is Hoyle I?
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2010, 01:44:04 PM
Try the links now, it should work.

Hoyle Book of Games, Volume I. It was a Sierra themed card game. You could choose to play against various Sierra adventure game characters, such as Rosella, Graham, Roger Wilco, Sonny Bonds, Colonel Dijon, etc, and other other original characters (some based on Sierra designers, and their children) to play various games like Cribbage, Hearts, Gin Rummy, etc.

The characters would have conversations with each other, talking about their ancestral history,  where they came from, relatives, hobbies, etc.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 12, 2010, 01:48:04 PM
Oh, very cool!

Unrelated question: By volume, what percent of the KQ wiki did you write?
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2010, 01:51:17 PM
Umm, I've probably at least edited each article in some way. I created many of them, many are just started so I could remember that the reference was made. Many still need to be expanded.

When I started editing, I think there were only less than 200 articles in the wiki.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: kindofdoon on August 12, 2010, 02:11:06 PM
The wiki is extremely impressive. The way you've collected, organized, and presented information is really quite excellent. You said that your profession is archeology, right? You seem like the perfect historian type.
Title: Re: Something that I noticed
Post by: Baggins on August 12, 2010, 02:36:28 PM
Anthropology  and archaeology was my major. History was one of my minors.

I'm currently working on my masters in archaeology.