Episode 1 contained about 1 hour of gameplay, and Cez stated that Episode 2 is "about 4 hours to complete". Assuming that Episodes 3-5 are as long as Episode 2, then the whole of TSL will be about 17 hours long. Wow!
But as I understand, Episodes 1-5 originally comprised the first 2 of the 9 planned chapters of TSL. If the remaining chapters were the same length as the first 2, then the original length of TSL, with all 9 chapters, would have been around 76.5 hours! Can that be accurate?
It was extremely large, I can tell you that. Chapter 5 for example was double of what this current game is.
And had most of the stuff I wrote! *tear* *pours one out for lost chapters*
I know you've stated that you won't develop chapters 3-9 for free. If no one offers to commercially support these chapters, will you perhaps release the script anyways?
We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Well, at least you had the courtesy to not use the suffer. Thanks for that.
Yeah, I'd still like to see what the original idea was. Maybe, when you are releasing your own commercial projects (Corridor 9 for example), you can release little bits of the story on the side. If Activision allows you to make a profit off of The Silver Lining after these five chapters, I have no quarrel with paying for the extra chapters. I'd love to see the original vision you had for the game.
It would be SO cool if Chapters 3-9 came out "Developed by Phoenix Online, Published by Activision".
Quote from: KatieHal on August 26, 2010, 02:22:54 PM
And had most of the stuff I wrote! *tear* *pours one out for lost chapters*
If you send it to me, I'll tell you how great it is! :P
Wait, does that mean this game won't provide closure to the story?...
that can only be if the entire royal family is killed.
The plot has been reworked so that there will be closure with the eposodes that are being produced. I don't know whether it will be the same level of closure as it would have been with the full 9 chapters, but they're certainly not going to leave a cliffhanger - which is pretty much what you would have had if they had released Chapters 1 and 2 (Episodes 1-5) as they were.
What Stephen said. We reworked the story when we condensed it to provide a complete narrative; it's not everything that would've been in the whole 9 chapters, but it's still a full story.
Personally I hope there's not too much closure! I don't want my nice idealistic/fairy tale "and they lived happily ever after... until next time" feeling ruined. I would be a bit sad if every loose end was carefully tied up and we were left feeling like "that's the end of that"! But I guess if that happens I can always pretend that, like MOE, TSL doesn't exist and we're still living happily ever after at the end of KQVII ;)
Quote from: Cat1 on August 31, 2010, 06:19:30 PM
Personally I hope there's not too much closure! I don't want my nice idealistic/fairy tale "and they lived happily ever after... until next time" feeling ruined. I would be a bit sad if every loose end was carefully tied up and we were left feeling like "that's the end of that"! But I guess if that happens I can always pretend that, like MOE, TSL doesn't exist and we're still living happily ever after at the end of KQVII ;)
But the ending to KQVII was so rushed, I felt. I rather liked MOE, but in the off chance that TSL does not provide closure, I'll stick with the ending of KQVI and believe that Rosella doesn't get a happy ending. :devil:
Yep pretending that VI was the last one would work too :D And true - VII possibly ended a bit too suddenly, but I liked the way it ended happily and at the same time still left you with questions. I would hate it if, at the end of TSL, they told us something like, "so, after defeating Shadrack and the black cloak society, and thus putting an end to the forces of evil for ever, Graham and his family lived in peace and harmony for the rest of their lives and never had another adventure. Graham's adventuring cap was put in a glass case in the Daventry museum..." :P I don't like being told all these things - I like imagining for myself what might have happened! Plus (the real reason) I want there to be potential for more sequels! Maybe I'm cruel to want there to be potential for more trouble and strife for Graham and his family, but after all they're not real ;)
Quote from: Cat1 on August 31, 2010, 10:52:58 PM
Yep pretending that VI was the last one would work too :D And true - VII possibly ended a bit too suddenly, but I liked the way it ended happily and at the same time still left you with questions. I would hate it if, at the end of TSL, they told us something like, "so, after defeating Shadrack and the black cloak society, and thus putting an end to the forces of evil for ever, Graham and his family lived in peace and harmony for the rest of their lives and never had another adventure. Graham's adventuring cap was put in a glass case in the Daventry museum..." :P I don't like being told all these things - I like imagining for myself what might have happened! Plus (the real reason) I want there to be potential for more sequels! Maybe I'm cruel to want there to be potential for more trouble and strife for Graham and his family, but after all they're not real ;)
True, ending it so that another game can't be made (like killing off the family members for instance) would definitely be a troublesome matter for fans of the series. However, the whole Black Cloak Society has been a widely speculated topic of discussion for the series, and many have already speculated that every villain that has ever interfered with the family's personal business has done so for the benefit of the Black Cloaks. I do want their to be some closure so that these past games (and the family's past strife) can be rectified for the greater good. In other words, I want to see Shadrack get his comeuppance. :P
Well ok then, I can put up with the end of Shadrack/the Black Cloak Society as long as they leave us some potential future adventures :D
By the way, are there any references to the Black Cloak Society in VII? I haven't played it for a while but can't remember coming across any?
Quote from: Cat1 on August 31, 2010, 11:59:56 PM
Well ok then, I can put up with the end of Shadrack/the Black Cloak Society as long as they leave us some potential future adventures :D
By the way, are there any references to the Black Cloak Society in VII? I haven't played it for a while but can't remember coming across any?
Nope, no actual references to the Black Cloak Society. People joke around because there was a black cloak that Princess Rosella puts on to make herself incognito while Malicia is looking for her. I did see an unofficial list of the "members of the Black Cloak Society" on the King's Quest Omnipedia, and Malicia was listed as one of the members (but so was Lucreto, so I'd take the list with a grain of salt).
I think it's interesting that people want to believe that all of the villains from the series were members. The Black Cloak Society was an idea by Jane Jensen and was only referenced in KQVI; it was never really supposed to amount to much. Yet it's the one thing that I think is driving the fans for an ending that provides closure.
That was quite a vision, to make an 80 hour freeware game. I hope you guys found a way to make these five episodes one single story. :P
Quote from: Cat1 on August 31, 2010, 06:19:30 PM
Personally I hope there's not too much closure! I don't want my nice idealistic/fairy tale "and they lived happily ever after... until next time" feeling ruined. I would be a bit sad if every loose end was carefully tied up and we were left feeling like "that's the end of that"! But I guess if that happens I can always pretend that, like MOE, TSL doesn't exist and we're still living happily ever after at the end of KQVII ;)
I haven't actually seen how it all ends - that part's not in yet - but I'm pretty sure it's not an "everybody dies" or "it was all a dream" ending. (Well, I guess TSL is all a dream for Alex and Rosella so far... :P)
Quote from: snabbott on September 01, 2010, 08:22:41 AM
Quote from: Cat1 on August 31, 2010, 06:19:30 PM
Personally I hope there's not too much closure! I don't want my nice idealistic/fairy tale "and they lived happily ever after... until next time" feeling ruined. I would be a bit sad if every loose end was carefully tied up and we were left feeling like "that's the end of that"! But I guess if that happens I can always pretend that, like MOE, TSL doesn't exist and we're still living happily ever after at the end of KQVII ;)
I haven't actually seen how it all ends - that part's not in yet - but I'm pretty sure it's not an "everybody dies" or "it was all a dream" ending. (Well, I guess TSL is all a dream for Alex and Rosella so far... :P)
I hope it doesn't end like The Sopranos. :-\
Call me crazy... but I am still secretly hoping that the game is so well-recieved that Activision permits commercial development of Chapters 3-9 for the release of an alternate version of TSL- whoops! Did I say that out loud? :)
That's why it's so essential that we bust out the big guns so that our competition can "say hello to our little friend" upon release of all of the other episodes. In accordance with what Ken said, I would like to see more King's Quest yet. I'm just a King's Quest junkie; I can't help it.
Quote from: liggy002 on September 01, 2010, 03:31:20 PM
Call me crazy... but I am still secretly hoping that the game is so well-recieved that Activision permits commercial development of Chapters 3-9 for the release of an alternate version of TSL- whoops! Did I say that out loud? :)
That's why it's so essential that we bust out the big guns so that our competition can "say hello to our little friend" upon release of all of the other episodes. In accordance with what Ken said, I would like to see more King's Quest yet. I'm just a King's Quest junkie; I can't help it.
In the off-chance that Activision does front the money for further development in this project, the first five episodes would probably have to be patched to fit the full story. After all, from what I hear, a lot of things were cut from the original vision of the game. So that stuff would have to be put back in if Chapters 3-9 are going to be released to the public. I'm sure it was a fascinating vision, and one day, I'd love to play a game that doesn't settle for replay value and actually focuses on the main storyline in the long-run.
Quote from: Fierce Deity on September 01, 2010, 01:33:03 AM
Nope, no actual references to the Black Cloak Society. People joke around because there was a black cloak that Princess Rosella puts on to make herself incognito while Malicia is looking for her. I did see an unofficial list of the "members of the Black Cloak Society" on the King's Quest Omnipedia, and Malicia was listed as one of the members (but so was Lucreto, so I'd take the list with a grain of salt).
I think it's interesting that people want to believe that all of the villains from the series were members. The Black Cloak Society was an idea by Jane Jensen and was only referenced in KQVI; it was never really supposed to amount to much. Yet it's the one thing that I think is driving the fans for an ending that provides closure.
Thanks for that info. Yeah I think that the Black Cloak Society 'loose end', which was never tied up, is one of the things that has kept us KQ fans wanting more. That's why I'm a bit worried that if they tie that one up too carefully, without leaving a few other things unresolved, it will all feel too final. But hopefully that isn't the developers' plan :)
Quote from: snabbott on September 01, 2010, 08:22:41 AM
I haven't actually seen how it all ends - that part's not in yet - but I'm pretty sure it's not an "everybody dies" or "it was all a dream" ending. (Well, I guess TSL is all a dream for Alex and Rosella so far... :P)
Well, but don't you know that life is but a dream anyway ;)
Also, keep in mind that Activision doesn't necessarily have to front the money. A third party could do so on Activision's behalf. Heck, I would do it if I were rich. I'm not there yet but if I was, Shenmue 3 and an extension of the King's Quest saga would be a couple of things that I would be willing to throw money at. I guess we don't have any multi-millionaires out there who are willing to do that, at least not that I am aware of.
Quote from: liggy002 on September 02, 2010, 12:40:29 AM
I guess we don't have any multi-millionaires out there who are willing to do that, at least not that I am aware of.
Also, POS actually has to prove they can finish the project, and at a consistent level of high quality, before any legitimate businessperson would seriously consider doing that... ::)
Well, yeah. I think those of us who have followed the project for a while tend not to think of how it looks from the outside. We know it's good, but to most people it's just another fan project that may or may not amount to anything. Yeah, we released Episode 1, but content-wise, it's not that different from the original RC1 demo. There's still a long way to go to prove the project to the general public. I don't think the release of Episode 2 will do it, but it will be a BIG step in that direction.
Quote from: snabbott on September 02, 2010, 11:52:54 AM
I don't think the release of Episode 2 will do it, but it will be a BIG step in that direction.
Perhaps not to the
general public, but for the long-time KQ fans who are still on the fence, Ep. 2 will probably be the measuring stick that will tip them one way or the other. :) So that's something, anyway.
Quote from: Lambonius on September 02, 2010, 02:26:57 PM
Quote from: snabbott on September 02, 2010, 11:52:54 AM
I don't think the release of Episode 2 will do it, but it will be a BIG step in that direction.
Perhaps not to the general public, but for the long-time KQ fans who are still on the fence, Ep. 2 will probably be the measuring stick that will tip them one way or the other. :) So that's something, anyway.
Yeah, probably.
Quote from: Lambonius on September 02, 2010, 11:11:56 AM
Quote from: liggy002 on September 02, 2010, 12:40:29 AM
I guess we don't have any multi-millionaires out there who are willing to do that, at least not that I am aware of.
Also, POS actually has to prove they can finish the project, and at a consistent level of high quality, before any legitimate businessperson would seriously consider doing that... ::)
Obviously that is a given but they will finish the project and it will be at a high level of quality- that I do not have my doubts about. This is a highly talented lot and I never said that it had to do anything with business either, it could just be an act of charity with no return expected. It's not always about the money and it should not be either. Let me use Shenmue 3 as another example. Sega is hesitant to release this game because sales have been poor for the previous 2 entries in the series. That is understandable that they would not want to release it without some third party backing (Sony or Nintendo for example). If an individual investor does not want to commit to a project because they do not believe it will return a profit, that is understandable as well. However, for someone who is really rich and charitable and knows that they can easily make back a large sum of money elsewhere even if the game venture was not profitable, maybe that person will like that game while most other people may not and would still throw money at it. The crowd is right when it comes to business success in this particular industry. Even so, they may be wrong in terms of how good a game is. I don't agree with the crowd when it comes to Shenmue- it is a heck of a lot better than most games out there that sell very well.
So, all in all, all it takes is a single investor with lots of money to spare who can make it back easily.
The point was that no company is going to license the rights to POS for a commercial game if they haven't successfully released anything. No matter how dedicated we believe they are, no company can make that assumption until they release everything and it has a good response.
I was just reading that the original script for TSL was 1,500 pages... :o That's insane!
Quote from: kindofdoon on September 02, 2010, 09:07:37 PM
I was just reading that the original script for TSL was 1,500 pages... :o That's insane!
To think I was gonna go back and read all of the Harry Potter books. I think I'll just wait till Phoenix publishes their original script into a book. :P
QuoteNope, no actual references to the Black Cloak Society. People joke around because there was a black cloak that Princess Rosella puts on to make herself incognito while Malicia is looking for her. I did see an unofficial list of the "members of the Black Cloak Society" on the King's Quest Omnipedia, and Malicia was listed as one of the members (but so was Lucreto, so I'd take the list with a grain of salt).
The list is actually a list from a fan story called the Revenge of the Black Cloak. The omnipedia actually has several alternate lists from several fan writers and fan games perspectives, in the article "Black Cloak Society (unofficial)".
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Cloak_Society_%28unofficial%29
The main article "Society of the Black Cloak" only lists three, the three hinted at in in KQ6, and no others.
Quote from: Baggins on September 03, 2010, 06:46:43 AM
The list is actually a list from a fan story called the Revenge of the Black Cloak. The omnipedia actually has several alternate lists from several fan writers and fan games perspectives, in the article "Black Cloak Society (unofficial)".
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Cloak_Society_%28unofficial%29
The main article "Society of the Black Cloak" only lists three, the three hinted at in in KQ6, and no others.
Yup, that was the one. I just thought it was interesting that someone wanted to unite all of the antagonists into this "Legion of Doom" syndicate.