POStudios Forum

Hi everyone;

I think TSL is an amazing game.  The thing that set Roberta's games apart from others on the shelf was how much heart you could feel as you played.  TSL is no different.  Phoenix is not allowed to charge anything for TSL because the game elements belong to Activision.  However, if Activision hired the TSL team to create TSL and sold the game in stores I would gladly pay for it.  I am also looking forward to Phoenix' new game, Corridor 9, and will gladly pay for it if it is not offered as a free download.

The purpose of this poll is to demonstrate to Phoenix how well a game of TSL's quality would fare on the shelf and to demonstrate to Activision how much demand there is for games just like TSL.

And I swear, we didn't put him up to this! But I'm quite curious to see the results myself. :)

And, thanks for the compliments and support C-Guy!

what about a someware in-be-twe-een  35-50
::)

I love TSL, but in complete honesty, I don't think it has much appeal beyond old-fashioned adventure gamers, whose numbers are relatively small these days.

Right, but the poll is whether or not you would buy it, not whether or not other people would buy it.
The thread title is a little misleading.

C9 will be a commercial product, yes.

I would for about $50. But I have to agree that adventure games are not the same popularity level as back in the day. For US, yes, very exciting to see them back. But for adventure games to survive nowadays, like everything else they have to evolve to go mainstream. In terms of commercial opportunities, the old style sierra games from 80s and 90s (in my opinion) would only fair well with old schoolers. There IS a market. Look at nintendo wii bringing back Goldeneye, mariokart, donkey kong, and STILL mario bros.? How many generations was that? But, they re-did them with enough changes to makes them viable. But OBVIOUSLY they cater to people over 30.  So, in conclusion, there is still a market for these games, but don't expect the same commercial success, as say, call of duty.  I will save what else I have to say for another thread. But, in my opinion, TSL would be a DEFINITE buy for me, as will doom 4 whenever that comes....

Quote from: Ultima992 on December 13, 2010, 02:11:43 PM
what about a someware in-be-twe-een  35-50
::)

That would fall under the "up to $50" - as in any amount up to and including $50.

Quote from: Big C from Cauney island on December 13, 2010, 02:40:16 PM
I would for about $50. But I have to agree that adventure games are not the same popularity level as back in the day. For US, yes, very exciting to see them back. But for adventure games to survive nowadays, like everything else they have to evolve to go mainstream. In terms of commercial opportunities, the old style sierra games from 80s and 90s (in my opinion) would only fair well with old schoolers. There IS a market. Look at nintendo wii bringing back Goldeneye, mariokart, donkey kong, and STILL mario bros.? How many generations was that? But, they re-did them with enough changes to makes them viable. But OBVIOUSLY they cater to people over 30.  So, in conclusion, there is still a market for these games, but don't expect the same commercial success, as say, call of duty.  I will save what else I have to say for another thread. But, in my opinion, TSL would be a DEFINITE buy for me, as will doom 4 whenever that comes....

I dunno about that, my kids and nieces and nephews have just as much fun playing Mariokart and Mario Bros as me and my brothers do.

Plenty of kids play wii, but I think the intention of releasing those old school titles is to get the attention of people who played them in the past. Specifically, goldeneye.  Anyone who played it on N64 would want it.  It obviously struck a chord. There is a promo video on youtube for it proving just that.  And though kids play it, it could only help that adults (ones with money) would pick such a system for dual benefit.  Look how much attention TSL has gotten.  We all remember those games, thats why we are here.  I can't even recall how many hours I played goldeneye in high school. When I heard it was coming back, I was excited. Metroid as well.

I dont' know what price American games go for :( NZ games go for anything up to $130. Things are so expensive here >.> DS games cost $80 full retail. I'm a bad judge on this T.T

Quote from: Big C from Cauney island on December 13, 2010, 02:40:16 PM
But for adventure games to survive nowadays, like everything else they have to evolve to go mainstream. In terms of commercial opportunities, the old style sierra games from 80s and 90s (in my opinion) would only fair well with old schoolers. There IS a market. Look at nintendo wii bringing back Goldeneye, mariokart, donkey kong, and STILL mario bros.? How many generations was that? But, they re-did them with enough changes to makes them viable.

That's exactly right and Nintendo is a great example.  Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 were hailed as being among the best video games ever made on any platform.  Nintendo took all the elements of past Mario games and implemented them on a brand new platform with immersive new technology and a new story.  

In a way, that's what Phoenix did with TSL.  They took elements from past games of the series and breathed new life into it.

I think the reason a lot of people claim that the adventrue genre is dead is because there is little supply in the marketplace.  That doesn't mean there's no demand and I think that TSL proves it.  Sure, there is an instant draw for those of us who grew up with the original King's Quest.  But even in isolation, TSL is a great game.  

I've never understood why the adventure genre died out so badly.  There seems to be a demand for it, there seems to be a lot of people ready to move on from the mundane cookie-cutter first person shooters that have saturated the market.  And there's just as many veterans starving for new games.  All the industry needs is a publisher willing to take the risk and a team as talented as Phoenix to make games worthy to be in the genre.  That's why I hope Activision is paying close attention here :)  

No doubt, TSL is a great game, though naturally I have some critiques but nothing major.  I agree, I think there is a profitable market for the genre, though I think the age range is mostly over 30.  TSL a great example of taking on oldschool concept and bringing it into a new age.  I haven't played the whole thing, so there could be new features, like a boss battle I think I heard about in previous threads.  This is a GREAT idea.  For adventure games to survive, they need new elements similar to this. I got SO MANY ideas........ but I failed programming.

As far as why they declined?  The same reason anything does. If adventures games were still around, would you really want to play them every year with no changes? KQ6 was a masterpiece of presentation. After that, what else can you do? CD gaming was still relatively new back then. People were still experimenting with how to utilize the technologies to make things better. Not to mention my first 2x cd drive was 200 dollars. Nowadays, you can probably get something comparable much cheaper.  Unfortunately, and this is JUST MY OPINION, people ingenuity and technology didn't correlate and hit that sweet spot in a way that could really blow people away. So, people looked to new things. IE, Doom. That game really changed things.

Big C you are spot on when you say "KQ6 was a masterpiece of presentation. After that, what else can you do? CD gaming was still relatively new back then".  This is why Sierra was the pioneer in their day.  Ken knew that to stay ahead he had to push new technology.  That's why he pushed soundcards (remember the letters enclosed in old King's Quest games?) and why Phantasmagoria was one of the first Full Motion Video (FMV) games available.  If this drive to push new technology had continued, the gaming market would be very different today.

Imagine for a moment what a third Laura Bow would be like using Microsoft's Kinect on XBOX 360.  You could actually take the role of the protagonist and instead of using a mouse or keyboard, you would actually do what you want your character to do and speak what you want the character to say.  This brings us ever closer to virtual reality which designer Jane Jensen predicted many years ago. 

That said, the foundation of any adventure game is the story.  Get that part right and the fans will follow.  TSL is the proof :)

I could see it going for up to $50 - kind of like some of the Telltale games.

Quote from: C_Guy on December 13, 2010, 03:40:26 PM


Imagine for a moment what a third Laura Bow would be like using Microsoft's Kinect on XBOX 360.  You could actually take the role of the protagonist and instead of using a mouse or keyboard, you would actually do what you want your character to do and speak what you want the character to say.  This brings us ever closer to virtual reality which designer Jane Jensen predicted many years ago. 

Couldn't agree more.  And I was waiting for Laura bow 3. if you could use Kinect to question suspects and walk through the museum? This is pretty much what i was saying about technology.  IE, they shock factor from EGA to VGA. They really needed a bump THAT big to keep the mainstream involved. And CDs had great potential, but you just need to know how to utilize it.  I think phantasmagoria tried that, but i never played it. By 1994, doom was that big 2-3 year jump that got people's attention, just after KQ6 in 1992. Your laura bow idea is great. Something like that could jumpstart adventure games for sure.

Quote from: snabbott on December 13, 2010, 04:12:28 PM
I could see it going for up to $50 - kind of like some of the Telltale games.

Except that none of the Telltale games cost 50 dollars.  ;)

Let's be realistic here, people.  50 dollar games nowadays have production values along the lines of a 360 or PS3 game.  They also have to have mainstream appeal.  If you tried to sell something like TSL for that price range, no one would buy it, except for a few hardcore fans.  Adventure games just don't sell in that price range today.

$29.99 U.S. would be the best bet.  That's the about the price of a standard Telltale game.  You might even be able to milk $34.99 out of it, but that'd be it.

This is not a dig at TSL specifically.  But you guys are being naive if you think an adventure game with last-gen production values is going to sell for anywhere close to the price of today's new video games.

I'd pay any amount.

Quote from: Lambonius on December 13, 2010, 04:54:19 PM

Quote from: snabbott on December 13, 2010, 04:12:28 PM
I could see it going for up to $50 - kind of like some of the Telltale games.

Except that none of the Telltale games cost 50 dollars.  ;)

Let's be realistic here, people.  50 dollar games nowadays have production values along the lines of a 360 or PS3 game.  They also have to have mainstream appeal.  If you tried to sell something like TSL for that price range, no one would buy it, except for a few hardcore fans.  Adventure games just don't sell in that price range today.

$29.99 U.S. would be the best bet.  That's the about the price of a standard Telltale game.  You might even be able to milk $34.99 out of it, but that'd be it.

This is not a dig at TSL specifically.  But you guys are being naive if you think an adventure game with last-gen production values is going to sell for anywhere close to the price of today's new video games.

I always thought that'd be the price I'd stick on TSL. 29.99 for a retail, 19.99 for a download (for the full thing of course).

I personally wouldn't mind paying 50 or more if I wasn't attached to this project. I've paid that for other games I'm not as fond of.

Quote from: Enchantermon on December 13, 2010, 02:29:05 PM
Right, but the poll is whether or not you would buy it, not whether or not other people would buy it.
The thread title is a little misleading.

Oh, I did misread. I'm with Haids, then; I would pay any (reasonable) amount (if I wasn't already on the team, lol).

*Long-distance high five*

*returns the high five from 3,000 miles away*

Yeah, if I weren't an employee, I'd gladly pay 300 bucks for this game. I realize that's REALLY stretching it, but the point is I'd pay for it any day, any time, at any price. I just love TSL. I also still believe that adventure games will have a resurgence in mainstream popularity. I know not when, but I feel it deep down. Something is telling me that the genre will come back, so long as we continue to support it. I've always envisioned Kinect as one of the greatest development tools for an adventure game. I've always wanted to be able to use my own voice in an adventure game. Think of it; we already have both the hardware and software neccesarry for such a game. All you need to do is build a database of words and phrases, and then have a speech recognition program thrown in to fetch said phrases. It's the next evolution of adventure games right there. I still want my myst on kinect though. I'm not departing this earth until that happens. And I want them to remake Myst V with live action video. I know I'm taking this very far and off topic, but I have a bit of a passion for adventure games. I love em to death.

Quote from: dark-daventry on December 13, 2010, 10:14:02 PM
I'd gladly pay 300 bucks for this game. I realize that's REALLY stretching it, but the point is I'd pay for it any day, any time, at any price. I just love TSL.

My sentiments exactly. :yes:  This game took so long to come to fruition, I'd pay anything for it.  The team AND the game deserve it.

Quote from: dark-daventryI know I'm taking this very far and off topic

Hahahaaaaaaa!  You know it's impossible to stay on-topic here! :rofl:

I would never like a game with voice command.

Quote from: dark-daventry on December 13, 2010, 10:14:02 PM
I'd gladly pay 300 bucks for this game...I'd pay for it any day, any time, at any price. I just love TSL.

Lol...you just made my point.  ;) 

Of course any price.

Quote from: dark-daventry on December 13, 2010, 10:14:02 PM
I've always envisioned Kinect as one of the greatest development tools for an adventure game. I've always wanted to be able to use my own voice in an adventure game. Think of it; we already have both the hardware and software neccesarry for such a game. All you need to do is build a database of words and phrases, and then have a speech recognition program thrown in to fetch said phrases. It's the next evolution of adventure games right there.

Precisely.  I think using Kinect similar to this could add new dimension and popularity to adventure games.

I would actually rather type than talk.

(Posted on: December 14, 2010, 10:49:28 AM)

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Quote from: Lambonius on December 13, 2010, 04:54:19 PM

Quote from: snabbott on December 13, 2010, 04:12:28 PM
I could see it going for up to $50 - kind of like some of the Telltale games.

Except that none of the Telltale games cost 50 dollars.  ;)

TMI was officially $49.95 (I think), though I don't know how many people actually paid that much for it. I think I got it for $15. You're probably right that not many people would pay that much for TSL. As much as I like TSL, there's no way I'd pay $300 for it.

Any day, Snabbott. I don't especially like the sound of my voice, and I am not fond of new video game systems like the Wii, Kinect, and Move that attempt to bring actual physical motion into video games. I would rather press a button.

I don't think ToMI was ever 49.95. iirc, the season sold for 35 something.

I would probably not pay 300 bucks for TSL to be honest, even if Roberta was attached to it. The highest I've paid for a game was 70 bucks for Phantasmagoria.

Quote from: kindofdoon on December 14, 2010, 09:01:18 AM
Any day, Snabbott. I don't especially like the sound of my voice, and I am not fond of new video game systems like the Wii, Kinect, and Move that attempt to bring actual physical motion into video games. I would rather press a button.

For the record, neither Kinect nor Move are technically new systems. They are peripherals for currently in existence systems that merely the extent the life cylce of said systems. That being said, I'm on the fence with them. Move right now is technically the better option in terms of game available. Sony took a very smart route and decided against all casual games. They have both casual games and core games. Kinect on the otherhand, right now, appeals only to casual gamers. But I can envision kinect working very well for adventure games. The problem is that developers don't seem to realize that the potential is there. Someone has to take a risk and innovate, or else we aren't gonna go anywhere. Nintendo took a risk with motion control, and look where we are now. Whether you love or hate motion control, the fact is that if Nintendo hadn't done it first, we may not even have Kinect or move. When Roberta and Ken were making the KQ games, they pushed the envelope with almost every game released. The video game industry needs that right now. If no one takes risks in this industry, we aren't gonna go anywhere. Risks can always backfire, in which case you never try it again, and keep trying to do something new until you find the right thing. Are we going to be the innovators, or the adopters?

As for the price of TSL in a store, well, my point was that I'd pay any price for it. Obviously, $300 is a vast over-estimation (or a really good collectors edition), and I made that number up simply to make a point. Now I think I'm gonna go make a new thread for discussion of kinect and everything else to go into...

EDIT: For all discussion relating to the future of the adventure genre, including discussion of Kinect and Move, please go here (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=9845.msg308847#new). This thread is meant for discussion of TSL in a retail setting. Let's try to keep it on that, shall we?

Quote from: Cez on December 14, 2010, 03:51:19 PM
I don't think ToMI was ever 49.95. iirc, the season sold for 35 something.

Yeah - I don't know where I got that idea. By the way, I love your new avatar! XD

Quote from: snabbott on December 14, 2010, 04:26:01 PM
By the way, I love your new avatar! XD

It makes me want to work harder. :yes:

Quote from: kindofdoon on December 14, 2010, 04:29:03 PM

Quote from: snabbott on December 14, 2010, 04:26:01 PM
By the way, I love your new avatar! XD

It makes me want to work harder. :yes:

XD I would work harder, if only I had a better internet connection to do it on. I can't really do much with the internet I have right now. But once my finals are over and my one week leave of absence is over, I'll be hunkering down and working until my brains explode. (And yes, for those wondering, I did take a temporary leave of absence to focus on my education. That was the beginning of this week. I halted all my work on TSL to do my finals. But I can still visit the forum in my off-time, which is great. Getting to interact with such an amazing community is just... Indescribable!)

DD, I just realized: I have no idea what you do. Can you explain?

Quote from: kindofdoon on December 14, 2010, 05:52:27 PM
DD, I just realized: I have no idea what you do. Can you explain?

Whatever they want me to do, really. I do PR work mostly, like being a mod on the forums, but I've got some FW articles in the works too. And when I'm back at my house for vacation, I'll hopefully be doing some beta-testing. Why do you ask? Does it seem like I do nothing? XD I'm just messin with ya. I do what I can when I have time, but with college eating away at my life, it's hard to find the time to even eat breakfast these days...

No, I was just asking because I didn't know.

Quote from: kindofdoon on December 14, 2010, 09:55:39 PM
No, I was just asking because I didn't know.

I figured. I was only joking anyway. The main reason I don't do much work for TSL at the moment is because of my internet connection. It simply does not allow for much work to be done. I can only browse the net with it really. Trying to download things is a nightmare. A 7 hour long nightmare. My house has faster internet, but I live at the dorms for the time being. But, let's try to keep this thread focused, alright? It isn't meant for this kind of discussion.

I'd buy it. But that doesn't mean it would do well in stores.  ;)

I suppose if you had a huge advertising budget it might make a profit with the old school crowd.

Quote from: Bludshot on January 02, 2011, 08:58:01 AM
I'd buy it. But that doesn't mean it would do well in stores.  ;)

I suppose if you had a huge advertising budget it might make a profit with the old school crowd.

That's good point. I think the digital download space has been one of the greatest things to happen to the video game industry, especially for adventure games. If retail doesn't work, digital distribution most certainly will.

Well, I have to say I have reservations... If I had bought episode 1, at full price I would have probably felt gipped and it would probably have had impact on future decisions to buy later episodes. If Telltale games pulled that kind of thing, I'd probably not buy their games  either.

As its free, it neither hurt me nor affected my decision to try later episodes.

If it was one single game, released at one time, then maybe I'd have payed between $20 and $30 dollars for it. comparable to what I'm willing to pay for Telletale and other company's adventure games currently. This is contrast to the fact that I'm far more willing to pay $40-$50 for well developed action or FPS games. The latter offer far better replayability than traditional adventure games. My tastes in gaming and what I want in games has evolved over time. I do not feel willing to pay over $30 for limitations in adventure games anymore.

The only exception, that I've payed up to $45, is perhaps buying exclusive adventure games on old GBA, and Nintendo DS. Because those are portable, and its nice having a fun adventure on the road.

Even KQ8 imo has better replayability, as I've mixed it up a bit by making things more challenging, by changing the difficulty, and avoiding armor, and certain weapons upgrades. So there is more variety in ways of beating the game. Unfortunately its game ending bugs, hurt its replayability... I was wiling to pay $50 bucks for it back then, and if it was made today, with today's bells and whistles of today's technology, I'd still be willing to pay $50. I wouldn't be willing to pay $60 for kQ6 if it was made today, unless it was substantially modernized and that would probably mean action elements of some kind.