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The Royal Archives => Fan Feedback => Topic started by: KaiserBreath on December 31, 2010, 09:03:49 AM

Title: Extremely low poly.
Post by: KaiserBreath on December 31, 2010, 09:03:49 AM
Hi, I am wondering what is the poly count limit for each character? It seems like some characters do not have enough edge loop to deform properly. Not sure is game engine restriction or other issues. Just curious. Thanks.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: dark-daventry on December 31, 2010, 05:32:25 PM
I'm by no means an expert, but im going to take a stab and say its more the game engine than anything else. We have some amazing people working to make the game look as good as possible, but we can only make it look as good as the game engine will allow. I could be wrong though, so don't quote me.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: Arkillian on December 31, 2010, 06:35:06 PM
Well, when you compare it to the near accurate stuff of today I guess it's lower, but I wouldn't call it extemely low. Ever played the first Tomb raider? Where she had a painted on face that didn't move and cone shaped boobs? I'd call that low. The graphics in TSL I find are high. That's just my opinion though. I'm use to DOS games where it's all pixels. Even the modern games I play are pixels (Phoenix Wright)
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: Haids1987 on December 31, 2010, 07:12:57 PM
Well, when you compare it to the near accurate stuff of today I guess it's lower, but I wouldn't call it extemely low. Ever played the first Tomb raider? Where she had a painted on face that didn't move and cone shaped boobs? I'd call that low. The graphics in TSL I find are high. That's just my opinion though. I'm use to DOS games where it's all pixels. Even the modern games I play are pixels (Phoenix Wright)
Yeah, good point, Arkillian. :yes:  You gotta remember, this game started in 2002.  Graphics have come a long way since then, but their programming system probably stayed the same.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: Arkillian on December 31, 2010, 07:19:33 PM
That's right :) It's also another really excellent point that I didn't think of. Modern games are raced through in a short amount of time, so they get to release games on the engines before they get old. When you're working on something for 8 years, the quality starts to become old school and it fights to stay as shinny as the current tech.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: dark-daventry on December 31, 2010, 07:26:09 PM
Well, when you compare it to the near accurate stuff of today I guess it's lower, but I wouldn't call it extemely low. Ever played the first Tomb raider? Where she had a painted on face that didn't move and cone shaped boobs? I'd call that low. The graphics in TSL I find are high. That's just my opinion though. I'm use to DOS games where it's all pixels. Even the modern games I play are pixels (Phoenix Wright)
Yeah, good point, Arkillian. :yes:  You gotta remember, this game started in 2002.  Graphics have come a long way since then, but their programming system probably stayed the same.

If im correct, the engine being used is technically outdated as torque came out with Torque Game Engine 3D or something of that nature (I don't know gaming engines well, so if I got anything wrong, please correct me). Im not positive, but I believe corridor 9 will use the latest torque game engine, and thus look better than tsl. But again, I'm not positive, and so far I haven't actually done any C9 work. I'm strictly TSL for the time being, but I've made it abundantly clear that I want to stay on past TSL.
That's right :) It's also another really excellent point that I didn't think of. Modern games are raced through in a short amount of time, so they get to release games on the engines before they get old. When you're working on something for 8 years, the quality starts to become old school and it fights to stay as shinny as the current tech.


I think thats what happened to the game Too Human. It spent years in development, but when it finally released, the graphics weren't all that spectacular. But you must also remember that most commercial games have. Bigger full time staff than we do. We currently have 0 full time staff. Every single employee of POStudios right now, to my knowledge, is working out of their own free time and not being paid a dime for any of their amazing and hard earned work. But graphics aren't everything to me. I think TSL can certainly compete with a lot of commercial games out their based solely on it's plot, art assets and the dedication this team has had to the project. I mean, we're like the underdog story of the video game industry.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: wilco64256 on December 31, 2010, 07:35:09 PM
That's right :) It's also another really excellent point that I didn't think of. Modern games are raced through in a short amount of time, so they get to release games on the engines before they get old. When you're working on something for 8 years, the quality starts to become old school and it fights to stay as shinny as the current tech.

Though we totally love the fact that our non-profit fan game gets compared against current commercial games.

True that we don't have any paid employees, but a number of us do still spend a full-time number of hours working on The Silver Lining.  Keeps us crazy busy but we all love what we're doing.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: Arkillian on December 31, 2010, 07:36:55 PM
It's probably cause TSL is a fangame. If TSL were a self contained story it'd get better press. That can't be helped though cause it's the nature of a fangame. I like how this game has it's own little niche to be honest :)

The plot MORE than makes up for it- I agree. A Good plot is timeless. I don't think you could improve the graphics from what they are to something better without redoing all the polygons though. had TSL been released 5 years ago, it would've floored the market I bet. It'd be interesting to see how corridor 9 turns out if it's on a more modern engine.

(Posted on: December 31, 2010, 10:35:56 PM)


Though we totally love the fact that our non-profit fan game gets compared against current commercial games.

I was going to mention that I'm pretty happy it is too XD That's pretty awesome really :)
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: Haids1987 on December 31, 2010, 07:37:07 PM
Keeps us crazy busy but we all love what we're doing.
*Is jealous* :jealous:
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: dark-daventry on December 31, 2010, 07:41:32 PM
Yeah, working on TSL is really pretty amazing. I do love doing it, when I'm around. Which I admit, i could be better at. Perhaps that should be my new years resolution?
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: KaiserBreath on December 31, 2010, 07:44:34 PM
For a game with 0 budget, this is really good, but if the engine allows, it will be good if normal maps can be used to break the shape of the polys. Just my suggestions.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: Arkillian on December 31, 2010, 07:57:30 PM
Yeah, working on TSL is really pretty amazing. I do love doing it, when I'm around. Which I admit, i could be better at. Perhaps that should be my new years resolution?

Sounds good to me :) I can't see how there can be improvement, but I don't know anything about character mapping ^^;
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: dark-daventry on December 31, 2010, 08:09:24 PM
Yeah, working on TSL is really pretty amazing. I do love doing it, when I'm around. Which I admit, i could be better at. Perhaps that should be my new years resolution?

Sounds good to me :) I can't see how there can be improvement, but I don't know anything about character mapping ^^;

I don't know diddly squat about character mapping. Which is probably why I'm in PR and not whatever department does character mapping...
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: Arkillian on December 31, 2010, 08:10:38 PM
Yeah, working on TSL is really pretty amazing. I do love doing it, when I'm around. Which I admit, i could be better at. Perhaps that should be my new years resolution?

Sounds good to me :) I can't see how there can be improvement, but I don't know anything about character mapping ^^;

I don't know diddly squat about character mapping. Which is probably why I'm in PR and not whatever department does character mapping...

XD Sorry- I had character mapping stuck in my head XD I derped ^^;
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: dark-daventry on December 31, 2010, 08:16:21 PM
Yeah, working on TSL is really pretty amazing. I do love doing it, when I'm around. Which I admit, i could be better at. Perhaps that should be my new years resolution?

Sounds good to me :) I can't see how there can be improvement, but I don't know anything about character mapping ^^;

I don't know diddly squat about character mapping. Which is probably why I'm in PR and not whatever department does character mapping...

XD Sorry- I had character mapping stuck in my head XD I derped ^^;

Lol I do that all the time. I think college has actually damaged me more than it has made me smarter. I tend to confuse things every once in a while and I sometimes draw a blank on names and places. I swear the structure of my brain is way older than it should be for a 19 year old college freshman. I shouldn't be forgetting peoples names at this age, yet I do so everyday...
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: KaiserBreath on December 31, 2010, 08:28:24 PM
normal maps are like bump maps with direction. If you put these on the bricks or rocks indents, it can really create depth in the holes and break the polygon. If put on costumes, things like belt and collars can pop out distinctively even though it is 1 polygon. I am not sure but it seems like there are some AO "ambient occulsion" baked into the diffuse. Not sure if it is possible to jus convert those into bump maps. Thanks.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: Cez on December 31, 2010, 08:37:25 PM
Hey Kaiser,

the engine doesn't allow for Normal maps. We do have AO on the models and environments, but sadly no normal mapping because of the engine. Keep in mind also that these models are from 2004/2005. Because of all the animation work gone into them, it was impossible for us to update the models much, otherwise it would have been a nightmare.

I can tell you our next game will use all the technology from today, and our models will look MUCH better :)

Thanks!
Cez
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: KaiserBreath on December 31, 2010, 08:47:13 PM
well guess you guys have pushed it to the limits. The graphics are good enough to drive and deliver the story, which I think is of most importance. Gd job!
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: crayauchtin on January 12, 2011, 03:29:41 PM
Kaiser, are you referring to how Edgar is just a neck coming out of a shirt and has no chest? :P

I'm sorry, it amuses me. Rosella must be a "neck" girl. :rofl:
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: KaiserBreath on January 13, 2011, 09:57:47 AM
Not really. just some of the deformation looks weird due to not enough poly I think. Still, it is able to drive the story which is gd enough.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: Arkillian on January 13, 2011, 11:47:17 PM
Yeah- some of the shadows curve in weird ways, and some of the lighting on the edges are unnatural. It's not too distracting though so it's fine :) I'm a fan of retro though, so for me, I'm totally tripping in it ^^ I think if there was more polygons in it, I'd not like it cause it'd be too far from the original stuff. I think sometimes it's nice to be not as realistic as the modern stuff. There's something to be said about being different.
Title: Re: Extremely low poly.
Post by: LightWarrior on January 30, 2011, 01:27:43 AM
While low poly helps games run better and such.

It's nice for animators when we have high poly characters. >>;