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Is there such a thing as "bad" press?

Started by wilco64256, March 09, 2011, 11:58:55 AM

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wilco64256

I've pondered this quite a bit over the years and am pondering it again today and wondering if anybody else feels up to pondering it as well.  I wonder if there really is such a thing as "bad" or "negative" press.  Because really I'm of the opinion that any press at all is good press.  Even critics still raise awareness of something, and honestly one of the biggest reasons I went to see that Last Airbender movie was because the reviews were so bad.

Sometimes I just think that there's something in human nature where if you see something really negative said about a product it's actually a bit tempting to go and see for yourself whether it really is that bad (yes Airbender really was that bad).

Anybody agree with me here or do the same type of thing where you've looked into something even though you heard horrible things about it just to see for yourself?
Weldon Hathaway

crayauchtin

There is, it's just that you have to REALLY screw up for it to be bad press. And, usually it has to be something related to your career. It's not so much the "press" that's bad, it's the effect that press has on your professional network. Some examples:

-Charlie Sheen. He's psychotic right now, so he hasn't noticed, but this press is going to *murder* his career. All this press is raising awareness of is that Charlie Sheen is a nightmare and he's totally willing to bite the hand that feeds him.

-Tiger Woods. Sure, he can still golf despite all that stuff that happened but that's not where athletes really make their cashy cashy goodness. It's in sponsorships, and his behavior was considered so outlandish and awful that he pretty much lost *all* of those.
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snabbott

Yeah - what cray said. Also, if you find out that a certain brand's product is tainted, you're probably not going to buy it to find out.

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KatieHal

Likewise. Sure, bad press still gets you attention and that's good, but if you continue to get bad press, you won't be continuing to get that interest. The reviews of The Last Airbender are why I didn't see it, to counter your example. :)

That said, if you get bad press, you can try to handle it well and turn it around into good press, too, I think.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

wilco64256

Yeah but I think "informative" press is a bit different from "negative" press.  If you hear that some lettuce has been killing people yeah you're not going to eat it to find out for yourself.  That doesn't quite fall into what I think of as "bad" in this context.

The Charlie Sheen thing for example - yeah that's bad press, but look at how much more popular he is today than he was a month ago because of it.  There's even talk about him getting his own talk show, and his weird video blog thing that he does is like 50 times more popular than it was before.

Same with Tiger Woods - yeah that was a terrible situation but at the same time I saw people who I don't think have ever watched another golf game in their entire lives tune in when he started playing again to see how he'd do.  Granted, I do think that in general people are less interested in what he's up to these days, but Charlie Sheen does seem poised to come out on top thanks to his public craziness.
Weldon Hathaway

crayauchtin

Charlie Sheen believes he's poised to come out on top, but I seriously doubt it. There's talk of him maybe getting his own talk show but I don't think it's going to happen. Every interview he's done lately is basically people trying to convince him that he's batsh** crazy. And this is what people are watching his video blog for -- because the man's psyche is imploding. It's a train wreck. But when it's over, he's not going to be on top.

By the time Tiger Woods played again, the bad press had mostly died. He did manage to turn it around *some* by going to rehab (for longer than two weeks...) and the fact that he seemed to be taking responsibility is why his return to golf was publicized as much as it was (and that was good press). That doesn't change the fact that his meal ticket, the sponsorships, were taken from him during the bad press.
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Damar

I agree.  And honestly I don't think Charlie Sheen is bigger now than he was before this meltdown.  Two and a Half Men was huge.  I've never been able to figure out why.  I've always thought it was profoundly obvious and stupid, but then I feel that way about most sitcoms.  But regardless, Charlie Sheen's not big right now.  He's a trainwreck like cray said.  If Charlie Sheen does get a talkshow, it will be on VH1, where careers go to die and become undead walking zombies (I'm looking at you Bret Michaels and Flava Flav.)  It won't be because he's gotten even bigger because of the press.

And you can see that with other people as well.  Tiger lost sponsorship.  Dennis Rodman got dropped from the Bulls despite his talent.  TO is fast getting to the point that no NFL team will touch him.  Randy Moss was almost to that point until he shut his mouth and turned it around.  No one will ever produce another Gary Glitter record.  Scientology became (more of) a laughing stock to most people once they learned the name "Xenu."  Whistle blowers have ruined companies through press.  The list goes on and on.  There's definitely such a thing as bad press and it can take you down.  It just has to be really, really bad press, pointing out how unreasonable someone is, the fact that they're not functional at what they're meant to do, or that they're a pedophile or some such.

Big C from Cauney island

Well, look at jersey shore and all the negative attention it got from critics and sponsors.  And a few of those guys are making serious money.  As long as the ratings are there, and money is made, bad press is hard to define.

I mean come on. KANYE! He's still selling records.

Enchantermon

Quote from: Big C from Cauney island on March 09, 2011, 09:47:40 PMI mean come on. KANYE! He's still selling records.
Well, his bad press balanced out when he apologized, I think. Plus there are lots of people who didn't think he did anything wrong in the first place. :P
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Arkillian




Enchantermon

So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

atec123

Quote from: Enchantermon on March 09, 2011, 09:51:05 PM
Quote from: Big C from Cauney island on March 09, 2011, 09:47:40 PMI mean come on. KANYE! He's still selling records.
Well, his bad press balanced out when he apologized, I think. Plus there are lots of people who didn't think he did anything wrong in the first place. :P
I am most certainly a kanye fan.  He messed up, but he just wasn't thinking.  It annoys me when people instantly hate him because of it.
Quote from: Enchantermon on March 10, 2011, 06:34:34 AM

hahaha thats a good one.
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Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Cez

It depends, and, like Katie said, it's how you manage it. I'm sure a lot of artists spark some controversy when they are to make a come back, or just to get back on the news. However, there's some times when bad press really ruins someone's career --See Winona Ryder, for example.

Now, if you get a bunch of bad press and know how to handle it, it can end up becoming very good. For example, the TSL shut down news were not good for Activision. It's the kind of press they didn't need (which is another good point, sometimes you are big enough or shine enough that you don't need press), but they knew how to turn it around. For us, it was, in hindsight, one of the best things that ever happened to this project pr wisse--in both cases! It brought the kind of attention to the project that took it to an almost mainstream level.


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Enchantermon

Quote from: atec123 on March 10, 2011, 06:52:41 AMI am most certainly a kanye fan.  He messed up, but he just wasn't thinking.  It annoys me when people instantly hate him because of it.
I was already not a Kanye fan when it went down, and though it didn't make me outright hate him, I was disappointed at his conduct. Though apparently he was drinking before the show too, so it's possible that he was tipsy at the time (though he didn't seem like he was). Not that it's an excuse, but it could help explain why he would do something dumb like that.
But I feel you, still. I saw YouTube video comments where people were cussing him out up one side and down the other and I couldn't stand it. It's one thing to be disappointed or maybe just a little angry (even Obama was ticked off, lol), but seriously. Some people were taking it way too far.
Quote from: atec123 on March 10, 2011, 06:52:41 AMhahaha thats a good one.
Yeah, I'm quite fond of it, too. :)
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

crayauchtin

Okay, here's the thing about Kanye..... he's not a good person, I think most of us can agree on that.

But, as often happens (and has even happened somewhat to Tiger Woods) his bad press was about him as person, not about what his career at all. When he shut up and made music again, though, people were like "Oh, right, he makes music and it's AWESOME."

Then you have someone like Charlie Sheen -- and don't ask me how he's getting so many deals out of being on the crazy train -- but he talked trash about the people he worked with. And he lost his job. And, yes, people think his crazy is entertaining enough he'll be able to do a comedy tour but let's be honest, when that sucks he'll have burned his last bridge.
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

atec123

Quote from: crayauchtin on March 25, 2011, 09:31:45 AM
Okay, here's the thing about Kanye..... he's not a good person, I think most of us can agree on that.

But, as often happens (and has even happened somewhat to Tiger Woods) his bad press was about him as person, not about what his career at all. When he shut up and made music again, though, people were like "Oh, right, he makes music and it's AWESOME."
I don't know.  his lyrics (his first album at least) were amazing.  it is possible that they aren't real, but they have really helped me through stuff and they are very well written.  this was back in 2004 though.  I think the real problem might be the media.  Maybe.  they portray him like that and everyone knows about the whole taylor swift thing and other things (george bush hates black people).  I dunno, maybe he changed, or maybe it really is just the media.  I have a feeling that he (and most famous people) are very different than they are portrayed.

quick example:  tupac was portrayed as a thug and stuff...even in some of his lyrics you hear that.  but seriously... after listening to me against the world (the album with dear mama on it) i have a hard time believing it.  it seems much more sincere.

this is off topic and not very well thought out, just some ideas.
QuoteThen you have someone like Charlie Sheen -- and don't ask me how he's getting so many deals out of being on the crazy train -- but he talked trash about the people he worked with. And he lost his job. And, yes, people think his crazy is entertaining enough he'll be able to do a comedy tour but let's be honest, when that sucks he'll have burned his last bridge.
this is true.  it will be interesting to see though. (for a little bit)
QuoteBut, as often happens (and has even happened somewhat to Tiger Woods) his bad press was about him as person, not about what his career at all. When he shut up and made music again, though, people were like "Oh, right, he makes music and it's AWESOME."
this is kinda true too, for a lot of people.  most people won't not buy one of his songs because they don 't like stuff he did.  the same people who don't pay attention to what the songs are about anyway.

media/press in general, I think, is really messed up (the way it works)
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People say, when they see us:
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darthkiwi

I guess that some "bad" press does at least let people know that something exists, like the people who saw the bad reviews of The Last Airbender and then went to see it. If people don't know about something, or it's slipped to the back of their minds, press of any kind will inform or remind them, which is probably a good thing.

I think problems arise when the person seeing the press knows about something and already has moderate or high expectations, and the bad press then tells them that the thing is terrible. That can only be bad.

For example, I just read this review:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/24/ghostbusters-sanctum-of-slime-review-pc/#more-55198

I'll take one section:

QuoteThe mistakes hit so fast and so frequent that I was actually too bewildered to catch on to just how terrible a game this is. Mistakes such as these:

    The intro cutscene lasts almost 15 minutes.

    You don't play as the Ghostbusters, but as some charisma-vacuum rookies who pop out of nowhere without a proper introduction.

    There is no voicework whatsoever in the game, thus rendering it doubly mysterious that the familiar Ghostbusters are not the playable characters.

    It's a game built around co-op play, but does not include online co-op.

    The vast majority of ghosts are defeated simply by zapping them – no traps required.

    Locked Door Syndrome defines every single moment of progression.

    It's mindless, aggravating and packed with absurd difficulty spikes.

I mean, seriously. A fifteen minute cutscene? That's not scene-setting, that's appalling writing and a lack of understanding regarding videogames as a whole. Having read this review, I know I'll stay well away from this thing, even though I had only a passing interest in it in the first place.

The same can be said of Homefront. It looked like a generic FPS trying to rip off CoD and get extra controversy-points by setting the combat on American soil. But I thought, "Well, maybe it'll be brilliant. Maybe it'll deconstruct the American dream. Maybe it'll make us think about what civilisation is. Maybe it'll make the West look at itself in a cold, terrifying light."

And... no. It apparently has a lot of potted wisdom about the horror of war, and then you're headshotting guys and loving it. And it's really badly put together. And the whole campaign can be beaten, *easily*, in less than four hours. Hrm. Nope, bad press can *definitely* be bad.
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Buddy1991

I kind of tried to find a definition for "bad press", but actually most of the points have been said.
I just wanna add something which has not been mentioned yet.

I think we need to differentiate between "bad press" and "crazy press".
(For further examples I'll stick to newspapers only, altough I know that Television does exist, too ;) )

"bad press" is, for example, a general negative opinion which is shared by many different sources - taking your example, "The airbender is a bad movie" (btw I agree to that, too ;) ). However, after all the newspapers have reported on tha movie, it's done. There is nothing left to talk about. The people will or won't go and watch it, and the makers of the movie will take notice of the reviews, or they will not.

Now, crazy press, unlike bad press, goes further. Crazy press starts with something scandalous ("Tiger Woods had sexual intercourse with many different women although he's married!), and all the other newspapers jump on that "boat". (They have to because that's stuff people really wanna read about, and everybody wants to get new pontential readers, right?)
Since the newspapers need to outpace all the other newspapers they need to come up with new stuff.  They all start expatiating, they quote each other, they do interviews with Wood's cleaning lady, they talk to the women he's slept with - and it goes on and on.
This crazy Press can lead into something rather positive (something like a notorious fame Charlie Sheen is having at the moment, for example) or just negative. (Wood doesn't have any sponsors left. That's just bad.)

So, it depends on what you personally understand by the expression "bad press". However,  I don't agree with you that there isn't any bad press. But I agree with you that bad press can be made to something "good" if the persons concerned are clever enough. That would be the magic of propaganda ;)

Morwen

QuoteNow, crazy press, unlike bad press, goes further. Crazy press starts with something scandalous ("Tiger Woods had sexual intercourse with many different women although he's married!), and all the other newspapers jump on that "boat". (They have to because that's stuff people really wanna read about, and everybody wants to get new pontential readers, right?)

This is so very true...even to the point where some of the tabloids will make stuff up and it is then up to the reader whether they choose to believe it or not. As far as Charlie Sheen goes...the press seems to be moving on from him already. At one point when his craziness was first happening he was all over CNN... (which is really sad)...and already the media seems to be sick of talking about it...
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