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Tropes vs Women in Video Games

Started by Bludshot, December 06, 2012, 11:48:46 PM

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Blackthorne

Quote from: crayauchtin on December 15, 2012, 08:04:40 PM
Quote from: stika on December 13, 2012, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: crayauchtin on December 13, 2012, 04:40:34 PM
Dungeon Siege feature a female on the cover even though the gender of the main character wasn't set. The first game, with the female on the cover, was (I believe?) the best selling of the whole trilogy.

I know the sequel also features a female character in its cover
Okay... why can I not for the life of me remember that cover?! :P




Bt
"You've got to keep one eye looking over your shoulder
you know it's going to get harder and harder as you
get older - but in the end you'll pack up, fly down south, hide your head in the sand.  Just another sad old man, all alone and dying of cancer." - Dogs, Pink Floyd.

GrahamRocks!

That IS a nice cover! She looks confident and ready to kick some monster butt.

stika

#182
that's the first game though, he was talking about the sequel's cover.



and the version I own:


personally, I'm not fan of Dungeon Siege's 1 cover, her face looks weird

and I'm also not a fan of the first image I posted, a bit too 'we want to cash in on Lord of The rings' for me

Bludshot

Quote from: Neonivek on December 14, 2012, 08:30:18 PM
Alexander rarely came off as Emo to me. He rarely complains about anything.

Yeah the only time the characters in the series come off as annoying is in KQ7.  Besides none of the characters are particularly developed anyway (which is fine).
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"

Neonivek

So basically Dungeon Siege covers basically devolved into using women for inappropriate sex appeal immediately after the first box.

KatieHal

You've got some image-linking issues there, Stika.

EDIT: Odd, as soon as I posted that, it worked.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

GrahamRocks!

Maybe I meant Angsty... 'cause, well, he DOES have a Dark and Troubled Past that he's still haunted by according to the Companion.


Neonivek

Quote from: GrahamRocks! on December 17, 2012, 04:45:24 PM
Maybe I meant Angsty... 'cause, well, he DOES have a Dark and Troubled Past that he's still haunted by according to the Companion.



I will say that KQ6 was the most legitimately romantic of the King Quest games. You send her love poetry to convince her you are alive and not a trick.

Cassima is quite vicious.

Bludshot

Quote from: Neonivek on December 17, 2012, 07:21:53 PM
Quote from: GrahamRocks! on December 17, 2012, 04:45:24 PM
Maybe I meant Angsty... 'cause, well, he DOES have a Dark and Troubled Past that he's still haunted by according to the Companion.



I will say that KQ6 was the most legitimately romantic of the King Quest games. You send her love poetry to convince her you are alive and not a trick.

Cassima is quite vicious.

Actually if you send her the poem before the ring she assumes Alhazred sent it to her. :P
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"

Neonivek

I will say that one thing I do hate about the handling of female characters is just the HUGE tendency they have for being demoted from being a capable member of the group.

Where often if they continue to contribute anything it will be the one spell they will do from a mile back.

I see this more often in Anime but even videogames arn't immune to this.

I know people are going to list exceptions and there are... but notice how many exceptions there are when
A) The main character is female
or
B) A large portion of the cast (at least 50%) is female.

There just seems to be an ingrained image of female frailty in people's heads.

The WORST I've seen wasn't even from a videogame it was from an anime (Marchen Awakens Romance... where the only consistantly competent female was also the fanservice girl... and the one who wasn't fanservice gets immediately demoted AFTER her speach... Thanks anime, so I can either get invested in a woman who constantly gets put in compromising possitions, or someone who could be a main character in her own right being thrust aside because she is a girl and this is a anime for men -_-)

Blackthorne

You know, though, I love it when a female character is just as capable as the boys - and it's not this HUGE deal that she's a woman.  She's just a part of the group, you know?

Zoe, from Serenity, for example.  It's not a big deal that she kicks ass and is Mal's best friend and partner in crime because that's just who she is.

Over course, then, on the other side - you have River, who's this damaged, frail thing, who's been so damaged, she's turned into an other-worldly killing machine.... the maniac pixie girl who suddenly kills everything in sight....


Bt
"You've got to keep one eye looking over your shoulder
you know it's going to get harder and harder as you
get older - but in the end you'll pack up, fly down south, hide your head in the sand.  Just another sad old man, all alone and dying of cancer." - Dogs, Pink Floyd.

stika

I prefer it when a female character is equally capable as the rest of her team

seems these days they're either less capable then any of them... or more capable then all of them put together :P

KatieHal

Neonivek--you pretty much hit the nail on the head of what the whole project that Anita Sarkeesian is doing is about, there. :)

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Bludshot

Quote from: Blackthorne on December 18, 2012, 06:06:50 AM
You know, though, I love it when a female character is just as capable as the boys - and it's not this HUGE deal that she's a woman.  She's just a part of the group, you know?

Zoe, from Serenity, for example.  It's not a big deal that she kicks ass and is Mal's best friend and partner in crime because that's just who she is.

Over course, then, on the other side - you have River, who's this damaged, frail thing, who's been so damaged, she's turned into an other-worldly killing machine.... the maniac pixie girl who suddenly kills everything in sight....


Bt

Or Kaylee...uggggghhhhh.

While it is nice that Zoe isn't a walking stereotype, she still has the personality of a twig.  The only thing we know about her is that she likes nerdy white guys and that shotgun she fondles every episode. 

...

I take it back, now I'm convinced she is Joss Whedon's fantasy woman.
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"

KatieHal

I'm a Whedon-phile, but I love Firefly for a lot of reasons, and the variety of female characters is one of them. Zoey, River, Kaylee, Inara, YoSaffBridge--there's a wide array of them and I think that's great. They've got different personalities, strengths, weaknesses, different roles on the ship and the show, and none of them are secondary or punished because they're women. They all do their share of day-saving, same as the guys on the show/ship. Your mileage may vary on which ones you like and why, of course, that's personal taste. But, there's my take on it.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Bludshot

I do think Whedon is above par on the issue.  It also bears mentioning that he is in a rare club that features main casts that are have just as many female members as male.

The dude loves his cliches though, and for me they get pretty tiresome.

On Season 2 of Buffy though, I am enjoying it.  Whedon should stick to campy stuff.  I thought all of the serious Firefly episodes were garbage.
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"

crayauchtin

Quote from: Neonivek on December 17, 2012, 03:06:12 PM
So basically Dungeon Siege covers basically devolved into using women for inappropriate sex appeal immediately after the first box.
Women with swords for sex appeal.
But the point I was making is that the games sold just fine with a woman on the cover. And the third one, which did not have a woman on the cover, crashed and burned.* Possibly because she was dressed like a medieval warrior stripper. No, actually, I'm pretty sure that was it. But nevertheless, the argument that "women on game covers don't sell" is clearly false.

*The fact that third one seemed to have a stupid plot from all of the pre-release promotions and was developed by a different company and seemed to completely ignore the events of the second game (not that the second game acknowledged the events of the first game but whatever), I'm sure, had nothing to do with why it didn't sell... ::) :P
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

KatieHal

QuoteNo, actually, I'm pretty sure that was it. But nevertheless, the argument that "women on game covers don't sell" is clearly false.

Actually, in the recent article about this myth/fact, one major point was that women are so rarely featured on covers that it's almost impossible to even study if this is true or not. There's so little of a sampling out there, comparatively, that you can't even accurately compare it.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

crayauchtin

Honestly, I think the only time I've ever seen a woman on a game box cover who was *not* scantily clad or sexualized is that Alice in Wonderland horror video game.... never played it, just saw the box. Little blonde Alice..... with blood all on her.
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

Neonivek

Quote from: crayauchtin on December 19, 2012, 10:23:40 PM
Honestly, I think the only time I've ever seen a woman on a game box cover who was *not* scantily clad or sexualized is that Alice in Wonderland horror video game.... never played it, just saw the box. Little blonde Alice..... with blood all on her.

The Fatal Frames...

Oddly enough in an interview they said they thought of having a male protagonist but said that a female one would be better since she is more helpless.

While a part of me agrees in that people expect a woman to attempt to do things by just destroying stuff with her hands... It does get a bit uttarly stupid in the Third, the only one I own, when both female protagonists refuse to push heavy objects. (Oddly enough the only male protagonist is actually the weakest psychically and is thus able to hide from ghosts because of it.)

Then again only one of the protagonists, of the three, is willing to duck down into small places. All the others will refuse.