Frank Feedback on Episode 3

[Lambonius]

I'm sorta thinking if you have a problem with TSL, maybe you should just make your own game that satisfies the needs you want.

That's why I'm working on KOS.  lol...well not the only reason why. 

Yeah, I was just being snarky.  Grumpy morning today.  Sorry. 

Haha, I wasn't talking to you, Lambo.  I know you're working on KoS!  Hahah.... I was talking to others I'd heard complaining about the game.


Bt

I'm going to take that as an invitation to continue to loudly voice my complaints whenever possible.   

[Arkillian]

I'm sorta thinking if you have a problem with TSL, maybe you should just make your own game that satisfies the needs you want.

That's why I'm working on KOS.  lol...well not the only reason why. 

Yeah, I was just being snarky.  Grumpy morning today.  Sorry. 

Hmm... I'm reading KoS right now. I hope it's better than the Floating castle That story didn't interest me. Except when Alexander turned into a frog- that was funny

[Lambonius]

I'm sorta thinking if you have a problem with TSL, maybe you should just make your own game that satisfies the needs you want.

That's why I'm working on KOS.  lol...well not the only reason why. 

Yeah, I was just being snarky.  Grumpy morning today.  Sorry. 

Hmm... I'm reading KoS right now. I hope it's better than the Floating castle That story didn't interest me. Except when Alexander turned into a frog- that was funny

I don't know about the book...but I can guarantee that the GAME will be better. 

[snabbott]

I'm sorta thinking if you have a problem with TSL, maybe you should just make your own game that satisfies the needs you want.

That's why I'm working on KOS.  lol...well not the only reason why. 

Yeah, I was just being snarky.  Grumpy morning today.  Sorry. 

You, snarky? Nooooo...

Speaking of KQ5... Graham seems rather mercenary to me. "Oh, I'd love to help you, but... what do I get out of it?"

[glottal]

This seems to be a difference between what I'll call the Williams tradition and the Jensen tradition.

(note: the only Roberta Williams' games I've played are the KQs ... I don't know what Laura Bow, Phantasmagoria, etc. are like)

Between KQ4 and ... say Gabriel Knight 3 ... TSL feels a lot more like GK3 (and I am not talking about the graphics).  While KQ4 has a great sense of urgency, it's like a fairy tale in that one event after another happens, but the events are only loosely tied together (for example, the minstrel is not particularly connected to anything else, he just happens to be there for Rosella's convenience, rather than, say, being Lolotte's spy or anything), and there is no particularly significant revelations.  Likewise, the characters are quite simple - we don't get a lot of psychological depth.  Whereas GK3 is full of connecting various bits of history and lore together in mind-shattering ways and revealing deeply-buried secrets. We also get a much more nuanced notion of what's going on in the characters' heads.

Granted, KQ3 does have the big revelation about Gwydion's past, and KQ5 does have the plot-connectivity points previously mentioned, but not nearly to the same degree as the GK games ... or TSL.

So I'm basically agreeing with BT that TSL is a KQ6 fan's dream ... since anyone who prefers KQ6 over the other KQs is likely to be more of a Jensen fan than a Williams fan.  Note that it was Jensen who dropped the Black Cloak Society bit into KQ6.

I myself prefer the Jensen tradition, so TSL is pretty much my dream KQ fan game.  I also like the simplicity of the Williams style, and if this were an official KQ9 game I would want it to be more balanced (a la KQ6), but while playing that official KQ9 I would probably constructing a TSL-esque story in the back of my head.

[wilco64256]

We're huge Jane Jensen fans all around, so this isn't much of a surprise to us!  *wanders off to buy Gray Matter*

[Lambonius]

I am really impressed with the way AGDI seamlessly integrated more complexity and story into their KQ3 Redux while still retaining nearly the exact same feel of the original game or something like KQ5/6.  In my opinion they reached the perfect balance as far as additional plot and backstory are concerned.

See, guys?  Plot complexity doesn't necessarily have to equal dripping sticky melodrama. 

[kindofdoon]

So far KQIIIR does seem like a fairly optimal KQ game. Honestly, after looking at TSL's 3D models and scenes for so long, it was extremely refreshing to see nice old-fashioned VGA sprites.

[glottal]

KQ3VGA is also a great example of a KQ fan game where I was adding all kinds of melodramatic details in the back of my head (not saying that KQ3VGA should have gone in that direction ... after all, I am perfectly capable of using my imagination to add whatever details I please).

Still it's nice to have a particularly Jensen-esque KQ fan game since the melodramatic plot twists can actually surprise me.

EDIT: Since you refer to AGDI's KQ3 redux, I wonder whether you actually meant AGDI's KQ2+ or IA's KQ3.  I would say that KQ2+, while a bit closer to the original KQ tradition than TSL, is a departure in the same direction - more intrigue, more psychological depth (not even TSL - so far - goes as much into Graham's character as KQ2+), more tying together of the plot than any official KQ, more epic.  In all of the official KQ games, including KQ6, it's pretty straightforward who's good and evil, whereas both KQ2+ and TSL mix it up a little (I like that, mind you).

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

I am really impressed with the way AGDI seamlessly integrated more complexity and story into their KQ3 Redux while still retaining nearly the exact same feel of the original game or something like KQ5/6.  In my opinion they reached the perfect balance as far as additional plot and backstory are concerned.

See, guys?  Plot complexity doesn't necessarily have to equal dripping sticky melodrama. 

I think AGDI goes a little too far (in KQ2VGA) of tying all the events together via a 1000 year old prophecy and curse. Yes, they do retain the feel--but they also skewer a lot of the supporting characters, twisting them into either very different from the original or making them polar opposites of who they were in the original story. TSL does the same with the Royal Family and some supporting characters like Jollo and Hassan.

I don't like the idea that every single event in all the games is tied together in some kind of conspiracy, be with KQ2's The Father or with Shadrack in TSL.

[Lambonius]

No.  I said KQ3 Redux, and that's the only game I was referring to.  It's the perfect balance.  Everything feels fresh--graphics, music, additional plot elements and added depth.  But the game retains the exact charm of the original series.  They fleshed everything out just enough.  Like you said, not as far as KQ2+ and not as off-tone as TSL.  Just a great, great, all-around accomplishment.