TSL - Cease and Desist
Started by DavNomDan, March 25, 2011, 06:33:14 PM
Quote from: Arkillian on March 30, 2011, 05:36:43 PMThat's unfair to say. Some people don't like the mechanics of it. That's up to them. I'm not going to argue with them as long as they don't try to convince me that it's inferior to how I see it. That's when I get ticked off.
Quote from: Roivas on April 08, 2011, 12:32:31 PMQuote from: Arkillian on March 30, 2011, 05:36:43 PMThat's unfair to say. Some people don't like the mechanics of it. That's up to them. I'm not going to argue with them as long as they don't try to convince me that it's inferior to how I see it. That's when I get ticked off.I'm afraid that good game design would disagree with that opinion. The most frustrating aspect of any game is when the player is given a task, they know what they should be doing, and cannot do it because the controls have them genuinely confused. The Shadow sequence comes out of nowhere and doesn't give any clues as to how it should be done.I personally think that the Phoenix folk could've thrown us a small text box telling us the general idea instead of us resorting to trial and error. My first instinct was to go for the keyboard. When AGD remade King's Quest 2 they added in a sequence in which you have to race away from Man Shark creatures on a giant seahorse. Before the action sequence began they threw up a text window telling me the controls and I got through it flawlessly.In Episode 3 I got to the dragon thing and was killed twice before I even got the hint that clicking on the sides to dodge was the idea. Any system in which the player's only recourse is to guess is a poor design decision and will drive away players.
Quote from: KatieHal on April 08, 2011, 01:20:40 PMI have to say I disagree. I see what you're saying, but the game is entirely run by using the mouse, so it would seem to me that the natural inclination would be to continue using the mouse unless we said otherwise.
Quote from: wilco64256 on April 08, 2011, 02:03:54 PMDon't you think it would have taken all the effort out of that whole sequence though if we had a tutorial that just said "Click on the screen wherever you see a new icon?" If we told you up front exactly what to do ("If you see dodge, then click where it says that to dodge") there'd be no challenge or learning at all.
Quote from: Roivas on April 08, 2011, 02:14:25 PMIf the challenge of a sequence is figuring out what the interface is in a PC game you may wish to rethink the sequence.Just having a thing saying Use the Mouse would be enough for most.
Quote from: glottal on April 09, 2011, 08:03:15 PMI'm no programmer, but would it be feasible to make the action sequence respond to both mouse and keyboard control? That is, if I dodged by clicking the mouse, it would work, and if I dodged using by clicking the arrow keys, it would also work?
QuoteThat's the part of the suggestion that's throwing me off - you've been using the mouse for every other interaction for the entire game, it seems a bit redundant that I would need to throw up a text box saying, "Keep using the mouse."
Quote from: darthkiwi on April 12, 2011, 05:23:18 AMQuoteThat's the part of the suggestion that's throwing me off - you've been using the mouse for every other interaction for the entire game, it seems a bit redundant that I would need to throw up a text box saying, "Keep using the mouse."I will just say that, in my experience with games, mouse contol is always used for contemplative, complex actions (such as those found in an adventure game or an RTS), and keyboard control is always used for fast movements and action sequences. There are no platformers played by clicking, and the only action games which use the mouse either use it for freelook and leave the action movement to the keyboard, or use the mouse to draw gestures - which is secondary to the player's movement and is a very specialised action.Sure, up until this point the player hasn't used the keyboard - but there have been no action sequences up to now. What you're effectively doing is changing the genre, and it's entirely possible that some players will instinctively reach for the contols that they associate with that genre. Other adventure games, such as Gemini Rue or the QFG2 remake, contain action sequences and switch to keyboard controls when they do, so it's natural that people might expect that.I'm sure that this isn't a huge issue, and it sounds like it hasn't really impacted anyone's enjoyment of the game (unless, like the reviewer, they already disliked it), but just bear in mind that your goal as a designer is to make all players understand the game: if it's challenging then that's fine, but if it's actually obtuse then the design is flawed. The challenge of a really great design for a game or even just for an action sequence is to make it both accessible and challenging.Having said that, I'm not sure how this sequence could be changed, but I just think you guys should bear this in mind for the future. I'm not trying to put you guys down, it's just that I'm aware that after TSL is done you'll start work on (what I presume is) a commercial project, and I really don't want you to do less well than you deserve because of imperfect design choices.