Author Topic: Please Don't Kill Me! But...  (Read 98646 times)

Offline Deloria

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #300 on: July 08, 2012, 03:36:54 PM »
And Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian.
 
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Offline GrahamRocks!

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #301 on: July 08, 2012, 06:23:17 PM »
Quote
Please don't kill me, but I much preferred IA's remake over AGDI's reinterpretation. (And let's not get confused -- I love the AGDI games but they did not remake KQ2 or KQ3, they reinterpreted them.)
I love the storyline of the Father, but KQ3 is the first King's Quest that had a solid, complex-enough storyline. It didn't need to have more story thrust into it, and when they did it felt.... really really extraneous.

Besides, the curse in KQ2+ is set up (purposefully!) so that they didn't need to bring the Father into the other games in the series. There's forum posts from the AGDI team on their own forums explicitly saying as much. So then they went ahead and put the Father in another game in the series where he's totally unnecessary?


Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):




So what I'm getting at is, AGDI should have made a sequel and not remade KQ3 to continue their story. They set it up that way in KQ2+ and they did their whole story a disservice by NOT going that route in the end.

Now, IA stayed with the traditional KQ3 except in places where the story is a little uncertain or doesn't make much sense. The only "new" things, really, are fixes or things like Mordack -- who Roberta had no doubt not imagined. Now, the graphics and the voice acting.... I love the graphics, myself, but I agree some of the voice acting is flat. That said, the story is perfection. 

To each his own, I guess. *shrug*

Offline writerlove

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #302 on: July 08, 2012, 07:33:52 PM »
I liked KQ 2 AGDI, but not everyone did. And that's fine.

I agree with the four stars mentioned, especially Kim Kardashian. I have NO FLIPPIN idea why they are famous. I don't know much about Hilton, Kim K, Kristen Stewart (Darn it she has the same name I do) and Bieber. but I'm not interested. Bieber I think I've just outgrown the market for that type of thing.  It's for tweens mostly. And I remind myself 13 years ago it would have been Justin Timberlake. (Never was a Timberlake fan. More of a JC girl myself. Anyway)
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Offline LadyTerra

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #303 on: July 08, 2012, 09:07:53 PM »
Beiber has YouTube and Canada to blame, Kristen Stewart is because of even being connected to Twilight, and Paris Hilton is the daughter of the woman who owns the Hilton Hotel chain (though she is worth seeing in Repo just for the scene where her face falls off  :rofl:).  Kim I think was in a sex tape.
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Offline crayauchtin

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #304 on: July 09, 2012, 12:37:21 AM »
Beiber has YouTube and Canada to blame, Kristen Stewart is because of even being connected to Twilight, and Paris Hilton is the daughter of the woman who owns the Hilton Hotel chain (though she is worth seeing in Repo just for the scene where her face falls off  :rofl:).  Kim I think was in a sex tape.
But how did Kristen Stewart even get cast in Twilight to begin with?! I don't understaaaaand!!
I've had auditions that I know I did better than her performance in Twilight and didn't get the part. How did she?!?!

Now, blaming YouTube for Justin Bieber has one flaw: there are MANY talented people on YouTube. More talented than Justin Bieber. And Usher has not signed any of them. For this, I demand an explanation!And I'm sure there's a lot of talented people in Canada -- Toronto is full of actors, I bet there's talented musicians there too!

Now, I do understand (even if I don't like) Paris and Kim. Firstly -- reality TV. They do drama very well, they make perfect reality TV stars. Both of them are also geniuses at manipulating the media and at knowing the businesses they can poke their fingers into and excel... (with the exception of that time Paris tried to be a singer....)
Am I a fan? Not even a little.
Do I get it? Yes.
Do I want them off of my TV? Yes.
Do I respect them? Unfortunately... as someone who would probably kill people to have even a fraction of their fame (I'm an actor, what can I say? :P)... yeah, I absolutely do. I want to learn their ways!

(PS Both Kim and Paris "launched" their celebrity careers with sex tapes... with other famous people, I believe. And they both have famous families -- Kim's father represented OJ Simpson during his trial.)
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Offline darthkiwi

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #305 on: July 11, 2012, 02:58:07 PM »
Just my two cents on the AGDI/IA versions of KQ3:

Of the two, I prefer the AGDI version. I really liked their KQ2 reimagining, because the original lacked a complex story, the additional puzzles were welcome, and the whole Father thing tying the other games together was, I thought, pretty neat. I grew up on the KQ games, and would inevitably make up stories or conpiracies connecting Hagatha, Manannan, Lolotte, Mordack and Alhazred together under the Black Cloaks (even though the early games don't really support this) - so seeing this done retroactively was incredibly satisfying for me. So the fact they continued this in KQ3+ came as no surprise to me, and was welcome since it'd be weird if they did it for 2 and not for 3.

I also really liked the expanded story for KQ3+, particularly the extra details regarding Alexander's predecessors. Finding the hair and leftover notes of the previous boys was chilling, and really brought home the situation he was in. The occassional extra room was welcome, too.

Compared to this, the IA version was, as has been pointed out, a straight remake. And there's nothing wrong with that in the slightest: bringing an old game into the age of VGA is a worthy goal in and of itself. But, put simply, this was a game that I had already played. The graphics and music were an awful lot better (it was a great relief to walk around Manannan's house without it being garish pink and blocky) but it was still the same house, with the same story.

Gameplay-wise I also prefer the AGDI version. My favourite part of the game has always been the spells: there's a sense of wonder and danger to mixing them, and you have to follow the recipe exactly. One of my formative gaming experiences was peering into the manual, typing out the next line of recipe, going to the next line, with every spell finished neatly off with a wave of the magic wand. The IA version streamlined this so much that this was completely lost. The AGDI version, on the other hand, updated the system to a point and click laboratory, which I think kept the feel of the spell-making. The clock system was also rather cleverly done in the AGDI version: I'm afraid I can't remember how IA did it, but AGDI made Manannan's timing both unpredictable (the length of time he stays away is random) and foreseeable by the player (the clock changes colour to indicate how much time is left until his next visit). This vastly improved upon KQ3's original mechanics, where Manannan is always away for exactly 25 minutes, allowing you to gather enough ingredients to make the required spell. (Deloria tells me she was even able to make ALL the spells in that time - except the teleportation one, I guess - a feat I never achieved.) In the original, you really didn't need to watch the clock too much, since you'd only need to make one visit down the mountain to get the required spell ingredients. In AGDI's remake, though, the puzzles are constructed in such a way that you can only get all the spell ingredients you need to destroy Manannan by making up almost all the other spells first. This completely changes the dynamic of the game: whereas before, you just nipped down the mountain once, got the ingredients, popped into the laboratory one time and made the spell the kill Manannan - and once he was dead you were free to make spells as much as you liked - now you have to sneak up and down the mountain several times, there are several opportunities for you to cut it incredibly fine, and you have to sneak into and out of the lab again and again, making sure you cover your tracks each time. The overall effect is that, while the original could feel like an ingredient-fetching race that could be won in one fell swoop, the remake feels much more like what I think the original was meant to be: a battle of wits against the wizard, a sort of stealth game in plain sight where you have to use his own resources against him while he pops in and out of the picture, completely oblivious. By the time you finally feed him his fatal meal, it feels less like the result of one afternoon of defiance, and more like the climax of a long and deadly game of cat and mouse.

Having said that, there are some places where the remake falls down - mostly with regard to the Father. My problem is that, while the KQ2 remake tied together a lot of the early games with the curse - which gave the whole series a bit more unity - the Father's actions in this one just confuse things. The story ends with the Item falling into his hands, albeit in a crushed state. My problem is that, while KQ2+ retroactively unified the series and answered the question "Why do all these things happen to the royal family?", KQ3+ retroactively complicated the series, and prompted the question: "So what on earth happens with the father? Why don't we hear about him later in the series?" This wouldn't be such a problem, except that AGDI seem to be finished with the KQ series, which means that the last we will see of the Father will be the closing moments of KQ3+ - which open up rather than close down the questions we have about this plotline.

Also, it should be borne in mind that for IA this was their first game, and to turn out a work of such quality, with excellent backgrounds and art, and which was a really solid remake of the original, is no mean feat for a group of dedicated fans. Comparatively, AGDI had already remade KQ1, KQ2 and QfG2 by this point, and had a great deal more experience. Basically, I think that both teams did a sterling job and should be applauded for the hard work they put in, and the fact that both turned out such quality work.
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Offline GrahamRocks!

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #306 on: July 11, 2012, 03:30:39 PM »
Quote
Having said that, there are some places where the remake falls down - mostly with regard to the Father. My problem is that, while the KQ2 remake tied together a lot of the early games with the curse - which gave the whole series a bit more unity - the Father's actions in this one just confuse things. The story ends with the Item falling into his hands, albeit in a crushed state. My problem is that, while KQ2+ retroactively unified the series and answered the question "Why do all these things happen to the royal family?", KQ3+ retroactively complicated the series, and prompted the question: "So what on earth happens with the father? Why don't we hear about him later in the series?" This wouldn't be such a problem, except that AGDI seem to be finished with the KQ series, which means that the last we will see of the Father will be the closing moments of KQ3+ - which open up rather than close down the questions we have about this plotline.

Kinda surprised there aren't many fan theories abound about the KQ3+ ending.

A theory I have for him is: when he finds The Item, naturally, he's ticked off and makes sure Graham pays dearly for what he's done. Knowing his curse is still in effect, he hides himself away to formulate another plan for the Ascension and contacts his fellow Black Cloaks...

Whether he knows or not though, his curse has already been beaten. Alexander and Rosella are safe, Graham survived his heart attack, and a certain young man has been made the heir to the throne...

Offline KatieHal

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #307 on: July 11, 2012, 03:51:50 PM »
The thing is, since I didn't find The Item during the game itself, I had NO idea what that ending was about. It didn't make any sense to me, and likewise the fact I couldn't do anything with the Father when you run into him in the forest made me feel like I was missing something. But I had NO idea where I'd missed something, as there's no real hints about The Item and where to find it during the game itself. So, yeah, I'd agree that the Father storyline could've been a *little* bit stronger there. It didn't need to be a huge part of the game, but a little more of it showing up would've helped.

Overall, I agree with your assessments of the two games. Good write-up!

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Offline GrahamRocks!

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #308 on: July 11, 2012, 03:55:35 PM »
Wait... i thought getting The Item was required to win the game?

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #309 on: July 11, 2012, 08:57:01 PM »
Maybe I'm (we're?) confusing The Item with...

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

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Offline crayauchtin

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #310 on: July 11, 2012, 11:30:32 PM »
Maybe I'm (we're?) confusing The Item with...

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):
No, that IS the Item and you don't need it to win, you just need the Green Orb.

But, that's exactly what I was saying storytelling wise darthkiwi.

Now, I had sort of forgotten the things about the predecessors in the AGDI version -- in fact, I had been thinking they were in the IA remake but, no they're not. That's apparently how turned off I was by the way the Father's storyline was handled in the AGDI remake, I took the brilliant additions to original KQ3 story and attributed them to a different game entirely.... oops! :P
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Offline Delling

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #311 on: July 12, 2012, 01:14:05 AM »
(it was a great relief to walk around Manannan's house without it being garish pink and blocky) but it was still the same house, with the same story.

Manannan without Manannan's pink and fluffy bedroom is NOT Manannan. Think about what that room says about him!! Seriously, think for a second. Yeah, I don't know where I'm going with this either (I'm on a bus to Galway after getting off a transatlantic flight)--but!--I do feel that Manannan's room being so out of character for Manannan is important to Manannan in ways we don't really think about. (Maybe he's all killy-killy about things because he feels misunderstood...



... I mean... can you understand what he was going for here? Or why an evil murderous wizard has a pink and frilly four-poster canopy bed? I rest my case.
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Offline Deloria

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #312 on: July 12, 2012, 01:43:55 AM »
Most boring tapestry ever. ::) If anyone ever goes to the expense and effort of getting a tapestry, at least make sure it depicts a pre-Raphaelite painting. :P
 
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Offline crayauchtin

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #313 on: July 12, 2012, 10:22:52 AM »
My assumption was always that the furniture had belonged to the witch who was now Manannan's cat and that he'd never gotten around to changing it....
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #314 on: July 12, 2012, 02:06:01 PM »
Naw, anyone who's a ninny at chess must have a pink fluffy bedroom. It's a requirement.

That's why my room is pink and fluffy! :yes: ;D
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Offline snabbott

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #315 on: July 12, 2012, 03:23:26 PM »
Naw, anyone who's a ninny at chess must have a pink fluffy bedroom. It's a requirement.
That was Mordack! No pink frills in HIS bedroom!

My assumption was always that the furniture had belonged to the witch who was now Manannan's cat and that he'd never gotten around to changing it....
I don't remember the cat being a witch - is this something from the Companion? ???
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 03:31:35 PM by snabbott »

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Offline Haids1987

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #316 on: July 12, 2012, 03:29:40 PM »
Naw, anyone who's a ninny at chess must have a pink fluffy bedroom. It's a requirement.
That was Mordack!
Rookie mistake. :wall:

I still have a pink and fluffy bedroom, however, because I still am a ninny at chess.  :scholar:
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Offline Pacman928

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #317 on: July 13, 2012, 09:38:53 AM »
Final Fantasy VIII? Yeah, I didn't like it so much. >.<
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Offline crayauchtin

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #318 on: July 13, 2012, 09:51:27 AM »
My assumption was always that the furniture had belonged to the witch who was now Manannan's cat and that he'd never gotten around to changing it....
I don't remember the cat being a witch - is this something from the Companion? ???
Yeah, but even before reading the Companion I kind of inferred that it had used-to-been a non-cat.
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Offline Rosella

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Re: Please Don't Kill Me! But...
« Reply #319 on: July 13, 2012, 01:10:12 PM »
Final Fantasy VIII? Yeah, I didn't like it so much. >.<

I think that's normal. I liked it a lot, but I'm in the minority.

FFIX, on the other hand, I really didn't like at all, and that's gotten me almost kicked out of houses. XD
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