What if there was a KQ1 Retelling/Redux?

[Baggins]

If AGDI could have made a KQ1 redux what would you have liked to see in it?

I think first off it would have interesting to see if the Father was behind the three stolen treasures. I would have like to see expansions to the roles of the randomly encountered villains like the Sorcerer and the dwarf. Perhaps more interactions with the leprechauns, giant, and other characters?

How would the Quest for the Crown fit into this? Was the father attempting to get the crown even back then? Maybe two individuals sent out, so that Graham was in competition? The other individual the father in disguise, who had manipulated Edward into offering him the same quest?

[MusicallyInspired]

I wouldn't want to see The Father in KQ1Redux. The Father's big reveal was in KQ2. While I'm sure Daniel could write something brilliant enough to put the Father in there somewhere, I'd rather it just be those three villains who stole the treasures with their roles and puzzles fleshed out.

[Baggins]

So perhaps, The Father is alluded to, but not seen in the game? Letters and books (the game needs a library or two!) could hint at him. But nothing that reveals him on screen. That way the physical reveal still occurs in KQ2RTS.

Maybe a visit to the Town of Daventry would be a good idea as well? The other two games offered visits to local towns, and even included libraries (so that would be a great theme to keep). Good place to offer new puzzles!

I'd like a fully interactive library, like in KQ2RTS, with plenty of books to read! Flesh out Daventry's backstory! Maybe read about several of the kings, including Edward's history! Histories concerning the three stole treasures, how they came into Daventry's hands and their original purpose to the First King!

[KatieHal]

I'd love to see a more fleshed out kingdom of Daventry--a town, citizens, and so forth. And some evidence of the kingdom having fallen from better days, too, since we're told that's happened since the three treasures were lost.

Hints of the Father would be nice, or hints of a greater network of evil at large. Maybe Dahlia or her house could handle that.

The story is VERy simply as-is, so there's plenty of room to flesh more of it, really.

[Enchantermon]

I think I'm more with MI as far as The Father is concerned. But what would be cool is to have a special scene at the end, maybe for people who obtained full points, that shows Gervaine coming to the castle and Graham taking him on as an advisor.

[glottal]

Continuing from KatieHal's suggestion of a kingdom which has seen better days, how about each time a treasure is recovered, the condition of the kingdom improves a little?  For example, maybe the library hasn't been entered in years because it's locked and the key has been lost.  When Graham gets the mirror, he sees where the key to the library is.

[Damar]

KQ1 has always been my least favorite of the games specifically because it seems to have so much backstory that's just not fleshed out at all.  It would certainly be interesting to see AGDI do a take where they expand everything.  Things I would want to see would be:

An expanded history of King Edward.  He's a very uneven character.  The game treats him like a saint and this really fantastic king, yet the whole plot of the game centers on him being either a thieving warlord (he sends out a knight to steal treasures that aren't his in the original game) or a naive patsy (he lost all the treasures through trickery in the remake).  King Edward could stand some increased development to reconcile the different attributes.

An expanded Daventry.  I'd love to see other people living in Daventry aside from the random monsters, magic guys, and the woodcutter and his wife.  Plus it would be a good way to tie in Mask of Eternity by having landmarks such as the mill, the covered bridge, the keep, and so on.

Improved motivations for the sorcerer and the witch.  The sorcerer especially.  I mean, what is up with this guy?  He just runs around randomly freezing people.  He's not even so much evil as he is just an incredible jerk.

I've never been much of a fan of the Father character, but since he played such an important part in II and III with AGDI, I'd expect to see a bit more of him on the sidelines and maybe learn more about him.  Other than that he's Morgelian.  I figured that out after II, though I did appreciate III confirming it.  Still, I would have liked a bit more information and resolution at the end of III, particularly since they were saying they weren't going to make another non-commercial game, which means that the Father storyline would appear to be completely over now.

Baggins' idea of having a second knight who is the Father in disguise would be pretty interesting I think.  Perhaps even make the knight Gervain himself (though it occurs to me that Gervain may have mentioned coming to Daventry while Graham was King.)  Still, the idea is good, and having a knight constantly attempting to thwart Graham, and perhaps even being the one to send the witch and ogre and so on after Graham in the first place would add more puzzles and conflict to the story.

[Baggins]

An expanded history of King Edward.  He's a very uneven character.  The game treats him like a saint and this really fantastic king, yet the whole plot of the game centers on him being either a thieving warlord (he sends out a knight to steal treasures that aren't his in the original game)

To be fair in the original version of the story, The King's Appeal, it is  suggested Edward believed they were legendary lost treasures, he had heard of in the tales, and he may not have known about their guardians.

Improved motivations for the sorcerer and the witch.  The sorcerer especially.  I mean, what is up with this guy?  He just runs around randomly freezing people.  He's not even so much evil as he is just an incredible jerk.

Well he is described as evil, but KQ1 never really shows how he is evil. He is also apparently supposed to be assumed to be the character who stole the mirror originally. They have Dahlia associated with the chest, and the dwarf may be associated with the shield (unless of course the 'dwarf' was a leprechaun all along).

As you may know, the Companion went further to connect the sorcerer and the enchanted as the same character. Although they are more obviously not the same character in AGDI's universe.

Baggins' idea of having a second knight who is the Father in disguise would be pretty interesting I think.  Perhaps even make the knight Gervain himself (though it occurs to me that Gervain may have mentioned coming to Daventry while Graham was King.)  Still, the idea is good, and having a knight constantly attempting to thwart Graham, and perhaps even being the one to send the witch and ogre and so on after Graham in the first place would add more puzzles and conflict to the story.

Well, such a character need not even be The Father to be a compelling addition. Perhaps this dark knight is another member of the Black Cloaks, not The Father himself. Perhaps it's Shadrach I'm disguise, AGDI has of yet not revealed Shadrach's role in the Society in their universe. Their is also the other expert sword fighting member of the society Abdul Alhazred even...or it could be a completely original character! The black knight motif would also allow the incorporation of more Arthurian legend concepts!

...and ya Gervaine mentions in KQ2 intro that he only recently came to Daventry, in the last few months even, IIRC. He also states that he wishes he had met Edward when he was alive! One of the games narrations even mentions that KQ1 occured one year before the game. So this means that Gervaine in AGDI's universe could not have been another knight of Daventry back then. That's not to say that The Father might have met Edward under another guise! ...and how many of Daventry's King's has he tried to manipulate and trick into giving up the Crown to him or his organization?

[Lambonius]

I (and I'm sure many other TSL fans) would love to see more intimate conversations between Graham and his mentor/liege lord, King Edward.  I always imagine Graham cuddled up on Edward's lap telling him about his day's adventures, and Edward smiling down at him and running his fingers through his hair.

[MusicallyInspired]

According to the remake, King Edward said they were lost stolen treasures of Daventry. How is he a thief by sending a knight to get them back?

Also, not every King's Quest remake has to have The Father or The Black Cloak Society in it. Don't force something that ain't broken. Just flesh it out. (I know, many would say that about KQ2+ as well, but there's even less reason to throw it in a prequel to KQ2 than to put it into a sequel of KQ2).

I (and I'm sure many other TSL fans) would love to see more intimate conversations between Graham and his mentor/liege lord, King Edward.  I always imagine Graham cuddled up on Edward's lap telling him about his day's adventures, and Edward smiling down at him and running his fingers through his hair.

*uncontrollable shudder*

[Arkillian]

I (and I'm sure many other TSL fans) would love to see more intimate conversations between Graham and his mentor/liege lord, King Edward.  I always imagine Graham cuddled up on Edward's lap telling him about his day's adventures, and Edward smiling down at him and running his fingers through his hair.

I donno about the lap thing, but I concur about a more meaningful conversation. I didn't' end up caring enough about the previous King when I played it cause well, who was he? A fuller conversation would make me care more about his honour as a King. Although, I get the feeling that he wasn't anything like Graham cause he pined over the treasures much >.>

[crayauchtin]

I (and I'm sure many other TSL fans) would love to see more intimate conversations between Graham and his mentor/liege lord, King Edward.  I always imagine Graham cuddled up on Edward's lap telling him about his day's adventures, and Edward smiling down at him and running his fingers through his hair.

That is SO creepy.

[Damar]

According to the remake, King Edward said they were lost stolen treasures of Daventry. How is he a thief by sending a knight to get them back?

It's not.  In the remake.  In the original game, though, that was never stated.  Edward just sends you out to get treasures he's heard of.  It's the story of a king sending out his knight to take treasures from others by any means necessary while the knight also pillages random treasures from the countryside.  It's probably the most historically accurate thing King's Quest has ever done.

And Lambonius, I really don't think there's any need for that in the game.  Let's face it, there's probably hundreds of slash fan fic stories out there with just that set up so you can get your octogenarian lovin' fix.  And I'd put money down saying that 90% of them have the title "A Knight to Remember."

[Baggins]

Ya, just read the introductory message at the beginning of the original, and see how it relates to the King's Appeal...

The weakened king answers, "Sir Grahame, Daventry is now a poor country desperately in need of help to overcome its misfortunes. Recently, I have heard tales of three magical objects that would end Daventry's troubles. I am an old man, Sir Grahame, and my death is near. I am depending on you to search the countryside and find three objects. If you do, the throne will be yours."-The King's Appeal

It was hardly changed in the pc version (Grahame became 'Graham');



Other than that it establishes he "had knowledge"  of three legendary treasures, they weren't stolen treasures.

They released a manual in later releases of KQ1 that added the, idea that they were stolen, but that wasn't changed in the game. The remake was the first game to make a reference to the manual.

Also, not every King's Quest remake has to have The Father or The Black Cloak Society in it. Don't force something that ain't broken. Just flesh it out. (I know, many would say that about KQ2+ as well, but there's even less reason to throw it in a prequel to KQ2 than to put it into a sequel of KQ2).

KQ1 already has a 'fleshed out remake', compared to the original. What I was discussing in this thread was the idea of a remake that fleshes out KQ1 even further and fits it more directly into AGDI's universe, rather than one that fits closer into the classic King's Quest universe. There are compelling ideas and suggestions made about Daventry's past, and the First King Leginimor (Morgeilen's brother) made in AGDI's later two games, that could better be explored in a game concerning the kingdom of Daventry itself! We were also told that those three treasures were originally the First King's, along with several other similar powerful treasures. Most were scattered and hidden around the world apparently. This is something that could  be explored in an expanded remake, through notes and library books!

I also seem to recall KQ2+, and Redux even hint at larger role of the treasures and even Morgeilen's connection to them. For example The Father is apparently able to control the prophecies that appear in the mirror.

[KatieHal]

I think Lamb's starting to confuse his sig banner with TSL

In any case, yes, more about Edward and what made Graham stand out to him as being the right person to make his heir would be good. That is kind of a big deal, after all!

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

This is what I hate about today's view of stories--Does EVERY secret have to be told? Does EVERYTHING have to have an explanation? Does EVERY story have to be fleshed out and made into something hyper-realistic?

[Arkillian]

I don't care about the secret as much. I just want to give a damn about him. In KQ1 original, you see so little of him it's like, does the kingdom care about him more than I do?

[Baggins]

Who said anything about every secret being revealed in KQ1 expanded redux/retelling? The big reveal actually occurs in KQ2RTS, and continued in KQ3 Redux. Both make nods back to KQ1, in few cases hinting at a somewhat more complicated importance to KQ1's events.

What I'd like to see is not so much something that reveals everything but makes their KQ1 fit better into the universe they created, rather than the original universe. Make Daventry more lived in, influenced by the history established in the later AGDI games, and hinted at in the manuals. Like the rest of the games of AGDI's series it should hint at vague histories and keep a sense of mystery. Look at the libraries in both games for a good example how they have done it so far.

Based on the ending of KQ3 Redux it would seem that the biggest reveals, and explanations would have come in a hypothetical future installment. [spoiler]Now that the Father has what he has been looking for![/spoiler]

[KatieHal]

This is what I hate about today's view of stories--Does EVERY secret have to be told? Does EVERYTHING have to have an explanation? Does EVERY story have to be fleshed out and made into something hyper-realistic?

WE REQUIRE ALL TEH SECRETZ!!

[glottal]

WE REQUIRE ALL TEH SECRETZ!!

I concur.

SECRETZ AR TEH DELISHUSH!

Edit - On a more serious note:

I like KQ-QftC the way it is, and simplicity is one of its charms.  However, a redux would not change the original KQ-QftC - it would still be there as it has been for almost 30 years.  Meanwhile, a redux could be a lot of fun.

For me, the joy of secrets come in two parts.  One part is, of course, the denouement when the secret is revealed, and getting reactions from all relevant parties.  However the other part is the tantalising potential connections between things - enough evidence that one can imagine what is there, but not enough to know what that is.  As KQ-QftC stands, it's low on both.  Sure, there's lots of stuff we don't know, but in any story there will be lots unknowns (even stories where 'all the secrets are revealed') but the original KQ-QftC doesn't even have much in the way of tantalising tidbits.  Now, that's fine - but that doesn't mean we can't have fun speculating on what tidbits could be put into a hypothetical redux which will probably never happen.