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Started by Baggins, August 17, 2011, 03:46:31 PM
Quote"A libertarian state would be interesting. It's far from the morals of Andrew Ryan, but I wonder if the outcome would be the same."
Quote from: wilco64256 on August 17, 2011, 04:38:19 PMMaybe the most expensive epic fail ever. You can't expect to basically give the whole civilized world "the finger" and then get on a big boat forever. An experiment like this can only succeed if the society that it forms can be totally self-sufficient. Won't happen.
Quote from: Baggins on August 17, 2011, 04:42:50 PMQuote"A libertarian state would be interesting. It's far from the morals of Andrew Ryan, but I wonder if the outcome would be the same."The United States at one time was more 'libertarian' (i.e. 'classical liberal') than it was modern liberal or modern conservative. It was even closer to 'anarchism' under the previous Articles of Confederation. The latter didn't work out, and almost divided the country into separate countries/states!The real question will the socialistic 'collectivists" also lead to a similar outcome in this "Rapture" . Because Bioshock essentially criticized both extreme 'Randist' laissez faire capitalistic form of libertarianism and the collectivist version of socialism. Both leading to 'worst case scenarios'!One of the more amusing undertones about Andrew Ryan is he seem's to be based off a bit of Howard Hughes and Walt Disney! If you have seen some of Walt Disney's WW2/Cold War era videos he was widly anti-communist! Some argue he might have even had fascist tendencies! Similarly, Andrew Ryan in his need to control his world, and defend it against perceived "outside threats" became a dictator, he enlarged his government, into a toltalitarian behemoth, to control over every minor aspect of his society (he began to break from his own 'ideal utopian' system of 'freedoms' in order to eliminate the 'collectivists')! It can be argued in the end he was far from being a true libertarian, than what he had wished for when he started his dream (since he started taking away everyone's 'liberties').Then there is Sophia Lamb who wanted to turn Rapture into a socialist utopia... But she too became a dictator in the end, and began sacrificing people for what she perceived as the 'common good', or murdering (or enslaving) those who disagreed with her methods or beliefs. There is a bit of Lenin/Stalin and Mao, and even a bit of Pol Pot in her methods. Perhaps she is a bit closer to Pol Pot, in that Pol Pot began as an unassuming academic, who believed he could institute a utopian society that everyone could enjoy and be a part of. But after he failed to convince everyone one to agree, he had those who resisted his government destroyed or imprisoned.
Quote2K Marin was probably using Sophia Lamb as a polar opposite to Ryan, and then showed that a similar conclusion would ensue. A helluva statement to say the least. If capitalism and socialism lead to a similar downfall, then what's the right answer? 42, that's what.
Quote"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which iswrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the factsthey misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are notwarned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit ofresistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right asto the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lostin a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed fromtime to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.It is its natural manure."
QuoteGovernment, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.