TSL - Cease and Desist
Started by Sir Perceval of Daventry, August 17, 2011, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: MusicallyInspired on August 18, 2011, 12:10:58 AMAs far as I'm concerned, KQ5 had the best atmosphere and most compelling story. KQ6 had a more moving story, but the story of the father and head of his family journeying across God knows where to save them by turning his back on his kingdom to do so is incredibly noble, loyal, and inspiring. Not to mention heroic. That's more interesting to me than a love story, even a very good one. Alexander done good, but he's no Graham.I love the locations, characters, random events, and the pacing of the gameplay and the story. The perfect fantasy adventure. In every sense. I never minded the dead-ends or spontaneous deaths because I never really ran into them. And if I did I got over it quickly enough.Best soundtrack in the series, too. My opinion. KQ6 and KQ1 are a close second and third (in what order, I couldn't tell you).
Quote from: KatieHal on August 18, 2011, 11:47:16 AMKQ5 had a lot going for it, yes, but as I've said somewhere before, I feel like because it was the first point-and-click, the first with voiceovers, and the first with such a huge and noticeable upgrade in quality (graphics and soundwise) over previous games, the flaws in its design and story get overlooked. It was an immense achievement, and a good game--very good even. But it has some serious design problems, and a lot of the voice acting is very lacking, really. KQ6 still remains my favorite and IMO the peak of the series.
Quote from: Blackthorne on August 18, 2011, 11:35:31 AMKQ5 = teh awesome. KQ6 = teh suck.
Quote from: KatieHal on August 18, 2011, 02:49:29 PMI won't speak to the puzzle issues, since you didn't say design. Story-wise, while the set-up is good, the execution...kind of lacks. Graham's family and home have up and vanished completely. These are big stakes and, it would seem, a seriously powerful bad guy! He lucks out in that Cedric is there and can bring him to Crispin for help, and can give him a name to the man who did this. So Graham sets out in this strange land trying to find his family and...kind of takes him time about it. There's no sense of urgency once you're actually playing the game. The first section feels more like Graham's Adventures in Serenia than a man fearing for his family's lives. It doesn't get much mention even, except for when you reach the plot points of things like Madame Mushka's crystal ball sending you further along your way. Graham has a pretty jovial attitude most of the time considering what's at stake here. This mostly goes away once you leave Serenia, but it feels like that's mostly because the latter sections of the game are far more brief before you move on to the next step. Serenia by comparison is the largest section of the game. It just feels like the story could've been constructed a little better to convey that, and avoid jarring the tone of fun adventures with urgent quest. If you want to be specific, that would be more the writing than the story per se, but that's starting to split hairs. That's on it's own. By comparison to KQ6, you're always aware of time running short, of Alex's quest to save Cassima and by extension the Green Isles. As well, the place he's in actually matters to his quest--Serenia and even the Icy Mountains have little to do with Graham's ultimate goal. In fact, all of the other games relate the land directly to the quest more than KQ5 does, now that I think about it. In KQ5, where Graham is and what he's doing have little to do with his ultimate goal.
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on August 18, 2011, 06:04:55 PMAs for the lack of urgency...You have to remember Graham is in all new territory, for one. There's a lot to see, a lot to do. Cedric tells him early on that Mordack's castle is beyond the mountain path and his main goal is to get ready to go to mountains...But he gets sidetracked into sub-plots as well as helping others. It's well established that Graham is a very good man, and will put helping others above his main priority; in most cases, sometimes helping others does indeed help him in his main priority.
Quote from: Damar on August 18, 2011, 07:00:54 PMCrazy emo, melodramatic narrator! Can't even look at a bird without getting some overwrought, unnecessary message about how Graham is sad!For its flaws, King's Quest 5 really is a great game and one of the best of the series. I'm also in the camp that likes 6 better, but 5 is fantastic too. In fact some of the different areas of 5 are among my favorite locations in King's Quest. The desert, for example I loved. I also enjoyed the look of the Harpy's island and wish you could explore more of it. And Mordak's castle was very well rendered and designed. The music too is the best in King's Quest. As much as I enjoy the music from 6 and 4, there's just no comparison to the Willow's Song, Mordak's Theme and it's variations, and the original Cassima theme which later inspired Girl in the Tower.And really, the flaws aren't terrible. The illogical puzzles didn't bother me much (except getting the emeralds out of the pouch and thinking to throw them to hidden elves.) And most of the flaws are more a result of the technology being new. Yes, the red X looks bad now, but the interface was new and it was no more jarring than the game responding to your command with, "You can't do that" or "I don't understand what a -blank- is."I will agree with Katie that the mood could have been a touch more urgent in Serenia. Or rather, some of the dialogue could have been tweaked to be more realistic. I remember thinking that Graham and the people of Serenia were just way, way too polite. It seemed like every transaction you had was obligated to end with a, "Thank you, my good man, this will certainly prove useful in my quest." "And good day to you, sir. Stop in again any time." "I will, thank you." "Thank you!" "No, thank you!" Or something of the like. Maybe it was just me, but it kind of bugged me a little. At the very least the dialogue could have added Graham occasionally asking people if they'd heard of Mordak. But these are just minor criticisms. They're nothing that hurt the game in the long run.The only thing that really bothers me about KQ5 are the voices. The game is much better without them. There's really not a single standout in the bunch. At best, the voices are passable, like Mordak and Icebella and Cedric (roll your eyes all you want, but you know that's exactly how an owl wearing a waistcoat and monocle should sound!). At worst they're a lisping narrator, shopkeepers reading their lines, and a guy making a really annoying growly wolf noise. I know that none of these guys are actually actors, that they were all designers, and yes the technology was new, but it just didn't sound good.That's really the only major complaint I have with the game though. Everything else about KQ5 is pretty fantastic.
Quote from: Sir Perceval of Daventry on August 18, 2011, 08:34:44 PMJosh Mandel actually is a voice actor. I spoke to him about two months ago, apparently he studied off studying voice acting--Years before he ever even considered a career in computer games. It shows as he's probably the best voice in the game. I hope TTG brings him back, if they make Graham the protagonist or even have Graham in a cameo--For me, Josh Mandel = KQ's Sean Connery.
QuoteJosh Mandel = KQ's Sean Connery.
Quote from: Baggins on August 19, 2011, 09:43:32 AMQuoteJosh Mandel = KQ's Sean Connery. About the only thing they have in common is a beard...
Quote from: Damar on August 19, 2011, 06:50:26 AMThis might be sacrilege to say, but I was not a fan of Josh Mandel's Graham. I didn't like how he delivered his lines as they sounded kind of forced. Also I felt that his voice in general just didn't sound polished enough to be in voice acting. But more than that, he just did not sound like Graham to me. I'm sure everyone has had an experience with a book that's been made into a movie and you watch and say, "That's not so and so." I had that with Graham. It's nothing against Josh Mandel but he just sounds like an everyman, which Graham is not. Yes, he's not royal blood, but he is a hero. Mandel has the gentleness but not the strength that I expect of Graham. (Plus the issues with the line delivery and professional polish, which again are totally my opinion.) And of course all fan games prior to TSL go after Mandel to voice Graham, and I understand why to some degree. But I do strongly prefer the TSL Graham's voice. It has the strength that Mandel's voice lacked.Regardless, even if Mandel did have voice acting training, he was picked more because he was a designer at that point. That's where all the KQ5 voices came from. And it really does take away from the game, I feel. I understand the thought of voicing your own game to do something new, but it just didn't work. I'm left feeling that if they wanted to put voices to the game, they should have just hired actors or left well enough alone since the game was already on the shelves in disk form.