Author Topic: Opinions on King's Quest IV?  (Read 11985 times)

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« on: August 28, 2011, 05:41:54 PM »
We're working backwards, before we go forwards. What are your opinions on King's Quest IV? Mine are that it's a great game, with a great story, a lot of urgency and a very eerie, creepy atmosphere. It's probably the creepiest game in the KQ series. More than at any other time, you're in almost constant danger. Pretty much EVERYTHING which resides in Tamir wants to or can kill you. There is a bleak, dreary loneliness to the land too. The little musical cues--even the "points" cue--have an eerie, melanchony sort of feel. Right around the same time as KQIV was made, Roberta started work on the first Laura Bow, and I have to wonder if the same eerie ideas--Roberta was always a self proclaimed fan of the horror genre--bled over into KQIV.

Even the KQ Companion makes note of this--mentioning that creatures from HP Lovecraft's Mythos roam the land, as well as the Whately Manor having connections to one of Lovecraft's stories--I think the Dunwich Horror?

I do wish the day/night cycle had continued into the next games. One of the main downfalls in KQ5-8 is the lack of any realtime passage of time. You could stand anywhere in KQ6 for HOURS and nothing will happen--you won't miss any key events, night won't come. That's a flaw which all of the games, except KQ3 and KQ4, have. I like the way QFG handled that--and feel it should've been incorporated into KQ.

Anyway, what are your feelings on the fourth entry in the series? Does anyone else feel it's creepy and eerie?

Offline Lambonius

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2011, 06:04:07 PM »
It's better once you apply the nude patch.

Offline Baggins

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2011, 06:26:36 PM »
WTF?!

I know the game has an 'undress' easter egg, but it makes fun of the player, IIRC, maybe a Leisure Suit Larry reference... She doesn't actually undress.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2011, 06:30:26 PM »
It's better once you apply the nude patch.

I went backwards because I knew if I went forwards--to KQVI--we'd get the inevitable KQ6/Jane Jensen lovefest. So I figured it'd be better if we'd talk more about the other KQ games first.

Offline Baggins

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2011, 06:34:15 PM »
Quest for Glory II has the X-ray specs...
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 07:12:00 PM »
Uh, well. Nude patches put aside, I rather liked KQ4 for the most part. I liked that they introduced Rosella as her father's daughter. A real adventurer to the very core. The day/night cycle was a plus. It added to Tamir's environment contrasting from day to night. It felt like a King's Quest game should. I expressed my feelings towards King's Quest 5, and I liked King's Quest 6 despite it being a unique kind of King's Quest, but KQ4 was, in my opinion, the last true KQ. It's debatable, I know. And I'd rather not digress into another discussion over my opinion, but that's how I feel. Cause after KQ4, is when the series started to fluctuate in my opinion. With that being said, I was disappointed in the character development. Given, the disappointment has been greatly affected by the latter titles, and I am judging the game in retrospect. They downplayed Edgar's character greatly. Then, when he becomes a human again (assuming this is the typical 'frog turned prince' motif), Rosella turns him down, making his character rather insignificant. Later in the series, Edgar comes back into Rosella's life, and then it's all of a sudden, "meant to be". I was put off by how quick she changed her attitude towards him, but I guess that's women for you.  :P

With the story put aside though, and the (lack of) character development, I think the game was true to King's Quest nature and is a classic. Now, if only someone can pick up a project to make a King's Quest 4 SCI.  ::)
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Offline Baggins

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2011, 07:33:07 PM »
Quote
Rosella turns him down, making his character rather insignificant. Later in the series, Edgar comes back into Rosella's life, and then it's all of a sudden, "meant to be". I was put off by how quick she changed her attitude towards him, but I guess that's women for you.
Well, she did technically think long and heard about accepting him then, according to the narrator. The only thing that got in the way of making the decision was the life of her father (she needed to get back to help him).

Interestingly enough, in the Hoyle 1 game, Rosella is still pining for Edgar, wishing she could see him again!

Quote
Now, if only someone can pick up a project to make a King's Quest 4 SCI.

It's already been made! What do you think the engine used in the current KQ4 is? There are actually two main versions of KQ4 AGI (rare) and the more common KQ4 SCI.

You probably meant a KQ4 VGA?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 07:36:38 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Lambonius

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2011, 07:34:45 PM »
I personally had a hard time suspending my disbelief to play as a female protagonist.  It made me feel all funny inside, and I kept having to check that all my usual parts were still there.

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2011, 07:36:50 PM »
Quote
Now, if only someone can pick up a project to make a King's Quest 4 SCI.

It's already been made! What do you think the engine used in the current KQ4 is? There are actually two main versions of KQ4 AGI (rare) and the more common KQ4 SCI.

You probably meant a KQ4 VGA?

Ah, yeah. That's what I meant to say. Sorry. :-[

I thought a team was going to make a VGA remake. What ever happened to that?

(Posted on: August 28, 2011, 09:35:13 PM)


I personally had a hard time suspending my disbelief to play as a female protagonist.  It made me feel all funny inside, and I kept having to check that all my usual parts were still there.

What happened when you finished Metroid in under 2 hours? Did your mind explode?
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Offline Lambonius

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2011, 07:37:52 PM »

What happened when you finished Metroid in under 2 hours? Did your mind explode?

Haha...let us never speak of that again.

Offline Baggins

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2011, 07:38:32 PM »
There have been two teams, and maybe three versions in development.

All have been cancelled as far as I know.

Magic Mirror Games was designing two. One was going to be a straight updated version, and their second was to be a KQ4+
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Sir Perceval of Daventry

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2011, 08:07:06 PM »
There have been two teams, and maybe three versions in development.

All have been cancelled as far as I know.

Magic Mirror Games was designing two. One was going to be a straight updated version, and their second was to be a KQ4+

Sounds the idea of a VGA KQ4 is a cursed idea.

Offline Baggins

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2011, 08:34:43 PM »
I'd really rather see AGDI do it, just because they have created a fully developed storyline of there own. I would like to see what direction they would take it. But that's not going to happen, alas.

Whereas other teams doing just creates a bunch of unconnected random stories.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2011, 09:41:30 PM »
I really enjoyed KQ4. Loved that I got to play a female protagonist...loved that I got to ride a unicorn. :) It has a few puzzle snags, although the only one that really comes to mind is the bridle that you can entirely miss and then can never get back to, and really overall I've got no complaints. Suggestions, however...well, that's a different question. ;)

I think an AGDI KQ4+ would be great. I'd love to see how their storyline would continue, and to see how else they might touch up the game. Seeing the separate parts of the game's setting tie together the way they tied things in Kolyma together would be really a great addition. I don't think we could see any kind of effect of Lolotte's rule vs. Genesta's, as Genesta has only JUST recently been stricken ill, but maybe some things could show the past effects of both rulers--maybe Lolotte had something to do with the haunted mansion's family dying off. How did Pandora's Box end up in this seemingly random crypt, for another thing. How is it the dwarves and fisherman are not bothered by the ogre? Things like that, I think it would be neat to see them drawn into a bigger story.

But overall, again, there's little I don't like about this game. Edgar could've been given a little more character, but  I didn't mind that Rosella turned him down--I thought it was pretty modern of her, really! A nice twist on the usual fairy tale ending, that, and fitting for the independently-minded Rosella. So really, he was there to support her story, not the other way around, and good for her.

Oh yes--as far as the day/night cycle, it was cool to have a clock in some of the games, but I wouldn't say other games lacked for it not being there. If having a ticking clock adds to the game, awesome, go for it. If it doesn't, there's no reason to have it. KQ6 *could* have employed this, and in some scenarios did, but only when it was directly a factor in what you were doing at the time--like curing the Beast, for example. And I think it was possible to be too late to stop the wedding as well, but I'm not entirely sure.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 09:44:59 PM by KatieHal »

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Offline Damar

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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2011, 08:33:22 AM »
King's Quest IV is a great game.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's probably as close to perfect as King's Quest has gotten.  That said, it's not my favorite game.  As an example, it's like when a band does a song that is literally just perfect.  It encapsulates what the band is all about, the instrumentation is perfect, and it's just the right level of produced.  Anything added or taken away would kill the perfection.  That said, it might not be your favorite song.  There might be another song that you like the lyrics to, or the music of, better.  Put another way, it's like Lord of the Rings.  On a purely technical level, I think you'd have a tough time arguing that Lord of the Rings wasn't the best movie ever made.  It's scope, the fact that it successfully filmed an unfilmable novel, the sheer size of the cast and extras, it's just the best.  That said, it's not everyone's favorite movie.  I'd include myself in that.  I love it, but it's not my favorite.

All that to say, I think that KQ4 is basically a perfect game.  The puzzles are just hard enough without being impossible.  The game changes enough in its fetch quests that it never becomes tedious or repetitive, and its roaming hazards actually serve a purpose.  Technically, KQ2 did that with the dwarf and KQ3 did it with the bandits, but the ogre in KQ4 felt more central to the plot.  Mainly because you had to go search him out, whereas the dwarf and the bandits were more a part of exploring the countryside.

The tone of KQ4 was also fantastic and very dark.  Until MOE I'd say it was the darkest KQ.  And really, it gives MOE a run for its money.  And the fact that it accomplishes that with the older graphics and sound whereas MOE had a 3D environment you could immerse yourself in might make KQ4 the darkest out of all of them (adjusting for inflation, or whatever you want to call it).  Tamir, despite having more residents than any other game, dead and undead, still feels incredibly empty.  But not in a bad way (like Daventry in KQ1) but rather in a way that evoked a feeling of hopelessness and barely controlled despair.  And the further east you went, the more the feeling of dread grew.  Areas like the waterfall, which in past games would be a nice little place, actually felt foreboding because of the graveyard, the proximity to Lolotte, and the troll that was lurking just behind it.  The land itself was a character in the story.  KQ2 did this too to a lesser extent.  The east side of Kolyma was enchanter territory and came to an abrupt stop with the mountains and the poisonous lake was always off-putting.  KQ4, though, did it better.

I'm rambling and gushing, so I'll cut it off here, except to say that Rosella was a great heroine for the game.  After Graham, then Alexander, then the implication that Graham wanted Alexander to carry on his legacy (he threw his hat in your direction) it really was a big step on Roberta Williams' part to make Rosella the star here.  It clearly was meant to be Alexander if they weren't going to continue with Graham, but Rosella took the series in a new direction and brought the royal family into the story more.  Yes, again, KQ3 did that with Alexander, but if they had just made Alexander the new Graham in the games, then KQ3 would have been seen more as his debut, not as a widening of the narrative to include the whole family.  KQ4 was clearly saying, "This is about the whole family now."  Plus, at the time, it was unheard of to have a female lead.  Not only did KQ4 do that, but they elevated Rosella from being the simple damsel in distress, made her adventure wicked dark, and had her not get the guy in the end because she didn't want him (and because Edgar is creepy clingy.)

So those are my thoughts off the top of my head.  I'll stop there since I don't want to post a wicked long dissertation.  Oh, though I do want to add that the nude patch was just weird.  Maybe pixilated nipples just aren't my thing.  Oh, and the implication that Rosella isn't a natural blonde?  Just unnecessary!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 08:35:34 AM by Damar »

Offline Baggins

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 09:22:02 AM »
Quote
The puzzles are just hard enough without being impossible.

With perhaps the exception of the fact, that you can give the diamonds to the Fisherman without getting the lantern! Just think about going through the cave maze without a lantern! Makes placing the board across the chasm much more difficult.

The bridle being hidden inside of a broken ship bow isn't clear. People tend to be annoyed by hidden items.

If you somehow forgot the fish before going to the desert island, you are screwed! But dead-end deaths are cool to me, personally.

Quote
The tone of KQ4 was also fantastic and very dark.  Until MOE I'd say it was the darkest KQ.  And really, it gives MOE a run for its money.  And the fact that it accomplishes that with the older graphics and sound whereas MOE had a 3D environment you could immerse yourself in might make KQ4 the darkest out of all of them (

Considering that MOE's darkest spots are early on in the game, Daventry & DoD (in the latter half, elements of the Underground Realm of the Gnomes and the Temple of the Sun), really... Most of the later half of the game is more alive, with whimisical characters. By then Connor is a paladin of light, nothing can stop him, and he knows will succeed. But those early areas, feel rather lonely and bleak, and though Connor vows to save the world, there is still some question to if a mere peasant can do so (even a peasant forchosen to do so)!

Even the Swamp has some sense of loneliness about it (its the location of the last bastion of human civilization visited in the game, but humans again are turned to stone). But it's also very much alive, very lush, filled with plants, and whimisical characters. It has its darker areas too, heading towards the Swamp Witch's house, but its overall a fairly bright though foggy land (which contrasts well considering Connor left one of the more drearier, lifeless, and hopeless places in the game in the previous level), and there is a sense of hope that builds during the level, that was lacking in previous levels.


« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 09:36:06 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline MusicallyInspired

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2011, 10:07:56 AM »
Remember there were two SCI versions of KQ4, bringing the number of versions to three. The early SCI release had very different background designs compared to the newer more common version. And an annoying walking decision in the programming where Rosella walks half as fast she she normally does when moving up or down the screen.

Offline Baggins

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2011, 10:37:08 AM »
Well, technically the difference between the 'two' sci versions is that one currently released is the most up to date version. It's the same game, but one version replaced the previous version (updated graphics in some cases, and some technical fixes, or changes to save space).

1.006.004 vs. 1.000.111

Wheras KQ4 AGI is properly a different game built on a different game engine. Some of the puzzles function differently because of it. There are actually at least two versions of the AGI version as well. One with the "Beam me" easter egg, and one without. 2.0 vs. 2.3.

It's really a matter of 'version #s'.

It's basically like talking about KQ7 version 1.4 vs. 1.5, or even the earliest 1.0 (or was it 1.2?). Basically windows 3.1 only (first release), then the Windows 95 version, and the version that added Dos support (new menu features & cutting deaths/cutscenes).

Essentially if you look at most Sierra games, they came in different 'version #' flavors. KQ3 for example has 2-3 versions.

The first was version 1.01. In this version there wasn't really a menu, pushing esc paused the game. Though most features from the later menus were in the game, you had to manually type them, or use F keys to access them.

The common version released in most collections has a fully functional pull down menu, by pushing 'escape'. Version 2.14.

SQ1 VGA has essentially two main version #s, the original release, and the one that was changed due to lawsuits. The newer version replaces the previous version (it's possible trick the game into using the original cut assets though!).

Likewise usually main difference between floppy and cd-versions of later SCI VGA games are largely 'version numbers'. Though occasionally there are further tweaks to the game and interface. Sometimes there are ven minor changes to the script, and the occasional puzzles. KQ5 floppy for example has an extra walk icon on the interface on the floppy version. SQ4 modified the Galleria Mall/time police escape puzzle between floppy and cd-rom version (and removed things due to lawsuits), KQ6 has alternate introduction on the cd-rom than on the floppy, and the windows version has enhanced graphics in the menu, and character portraits.

On a side note, with SQ5 there is a beta version running around on the internet. Filled with some strange differences.

Interesting enough the difference between the Apple II versions and the Dos AGI versions are really only 'version #s', and changes made to make them run on the Apple II with improved sound. Both share the same engine and files otherwise. But of course its a large enough change, that one wasn't designed to replace the other.

Another interesting fact, is that some games were updated to new versions of the interpreters. For example some of the AGI games were updated AGI1 to AGI2, or from AGI2 to AGI3.

http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Sierra_Game_Versions
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 12:53:41 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2011, 04:12:41 PM »
I love King's Quest 4.  I love the backgrounds, the characters, the atmosphere - the day and night cycle.  It was such a great game.  I remember playing it late at night, lights off in the house, and getting spooked. 

I would love to see a VGA remake in the style that AGDI and IA have made the other games. 


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Offline MusicallyInspired

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Re: Opinions on King's Quest IV?
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2011, 06:44:23 PM »
I had SQ5 beta at one point...but I seemed to have lost it. Apparently the debug mode was still enabled.
 

anything