An apology

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

I just wanted to say some things which were on my mind....
For a long time, I was vehemently outspoken against this game; I was indeed almost a foe of it in some ways. I'd get into petty arguments and probably came off rather reactionary. I even went as far as to make accusations and the like. I acted almost as if it was a Crusade. And thinking back on it now, with time, hindsight, and a lot of real life events that have unfolded, I think it was stupid. I don't think I have the will in me to fight any longer. To press on and on ever so passionately. I just want to apologize to anyone on the team, and to any TSL supporter who was offended by my Crusading in the past. I hope that time can heal wounds and whatnot. To be honest, I don't really feel like I'm a part of the community here, and I'd like that to change.

So, once more, I apologize. I owe a special, separate, yet deeply heartfelt apology to Deloria for things best left unmentioned.

I will reinterate that, however, I'm not a TSL fan, and haven't been for a while--though I was for many years;      I do not agree with or appreciate the direction it has taken, similar to how many dislike KQ7 and KQ8 for their various reasons; I do not think I shall ever support it. My main disagreements with the game lie fourfold: In it's storyline thus far, it's characterization of the characters, what I feel is an overly dark and melodramatic tone, and and the alteration or rewriting of significant backstory elements.

With that said, I will also not fight against it or try to tear it down any longer. Even if it I HATE what it's done to the back story of KQ, at the end of the day, it's simply a fan game, and nothing to get overly upset over, or cause bitter feelings on any side, over. It is what it is and all fighting does is drain me these days. A recent, bit traumatic appendectomy along with being very close to Diabetic I guess has tempered my passion.  

Also, at the end of the day, it is still an achievement. It's still a work. It's still something that took a lot of effort, time and patience. I can respect a body of work, even if I do not appreciate it's content, and I will say that I do believe all of the artists, programmers, etc and voice actors did do a great job. I don't know the motivations of the designers in designing the game--But I do know that it has brought great joy to a segment of the fanbase--and I can respect it for that.

Anyway, like I said, it's just a fan game and all of us here are fans of the KQ series and most of us I would assume also love many of Sierra's other products as well. I myself am probably one of the biggest lovers of KQ and Sierra you'll ever encounter. Both have been a part of my life since I was 4 and a half years old, through the best times and the darkest, and during that time my love for both has never waned; I'm nearly 21. King's Quest and Sierra's games are something I always return to, like a good Disney movie; They never get old for me. So, too, I can respect TSL because it's keeping, in it's own way, the KQ name alive, as do ADGI's games and IA's games, and any other fan or fan group who makes a fangame. All do their part to keep the name, games and legacy from perishing and being forgotten.

Again I say, I'd hope that in time that I could feel more a part of the fan base, more of this community. That would be something really nice.

Some may wonder why I even made this thread, but those who remember all the threads and fierce fights will probably get it, and I think Cesar, Katie, etc will understand it's sentiment. I've learned that I can disagree without being disagreeable, and I want to say to them (Cesar, Katie, the rest), to finish off, that I wish you nothing but good luck on your future endeavors and projects.

[Haids1987]

I appreciate the apology and I think that you mean it, but I feel like this thread is hypocritical.  You say that you are sorry and that you don't want to tear the game down, but between every positive word you say, that's exactly what you do!

I just wanted to say some things which were on my mind....
For a long time, I was vehemently outspoken against this game; I was indeed almost a foe of it in some ways. I'd get into petty arguments and probably came off rather reactionary. I even went as far as to make accusations and the like. I acted almost as if it was a Crusade. And thinking back on it now, with time, hindsight, and a lot of real life events that have unfolded, I think it was stupid. I don't think I have the will in me to fight any longer...I will reinterate that, however, I'm not a TSL fan, and haven't been for a while--though I was for many years; I do not agree with or appreciate the direction it has taken, similar to how many dislike KQ7 and KQ8 for their various reasons; I do not think I shall ever support it. My main disagreements with the game lie fourfold: In it's storyline thus far, it's characterization of the characters, what I feel is an overly dark and melodramatic tone, and and the alteration or rewriting of significant backstory elements.

Why do you feel like you need to reiterate that you're not a TSL fan?  We get that.  Believe me, we DEFINITELY get that.  And once you've already spoken your piece, you do it again!

With that said, I will also not fight against it or try to tear it down any longer. Even if it I HATE what it's done to the back story of KQ, at the end of the day, it's simply a fan game, and nothing to get overly upset over...Also, at the end of the day, it is still an achievement. It's still a work. It's still something that took a lot of effort, time and patience. I can respect a body of work, even if I do not appreciate it's content...

Just apologize and be done, stop bashing the game.  You've already said that you're not a supporter, and if it wears on you so much to "Crusade" against it, then STOP.  I was taught that when you make an apology, you can't add any "buts" or "howevers," you need to state what you did wrong and just be done.  Apologies need to be sincere and complete.  I can't consider this a true apology since you're negating everything that you say.

[Baggins]

Hmm... apologies and acceptance of apologies work both ways! What can be said about apologies with caveats, can also be said about acceptance with caveats! Both apologies and acceptance can both be insincere.
http://www.manager-tools.com/2006/10/accepting-an-apology

Now that we all know how to apologize, it just wouldn't do to not know how to accept an apology. Thanks to the growing scarcity of genuine apologies, the art of accepting one seems to be slipping away from us. Since our imperfect nature dooms us to continued errors, faults and failures, opportunities for apologies seem to stretch to the horizon. That means someone has got to accept them, because if an apology falls in the forest and no one hears it, it wasn't an apology.
 
But how? What do we say? And why do say those things? And does that end the interlude? (you might be surprised to hear us say it may NOT).

That doesn't mean that you have to 'accept an insincere apology', but there are ways to avoid misunderstandings. It really depends on the type of offense that one is apologizing for.

Seriously, though generally speaking you can tell a truly insincere apology if the person was forced into making the 'apology'. In those instances, the 'apology' is not from genuine 'guilt', but because the person was caught, and is suffering from public backlash! If they are apologizing in an attempt to 'save face', then its probably insincere.

If someone tells someone else to 'apologize' to them or others over an offense, more than likely they will get an insincere apology back instead. Especially if the one 'apologizing' really believed what they said or did in the first place. In general if someone believes somethng, but others might find offensive, they'd be best not apologize, and just stand up for their beliefs. Unless they truly have had a change of heart, and no longer believe what they once believed.

Also remember an apology accepted, is not actually a forgiveness for the offense. They are two separate things.

For something else entirely;
http://www.cracked.com/article_17105_the-6-most-insincere-apologies-all-time.html

[Deloria]

Haids, I don't think that's what he's doing at all. He's making his position clear; that's not the same as bashing or trolling. Not being a supporter of something doesn't mean you're against it either. I, for one, am deeply appreciative of it.

[oberonqa]

To be honest, I don't really feel like I'm a part of the community here, and I'd like that to change.

If you want to be a member of this community, you need to try to be a member of the community.

I will reinterate that, however, I'm not a TSL fan, and haven't been for a while--though I was for many years.

And this is why you are not a member of the community here.  In your own words, you state your not a TSL fan and haven't been one for years... though you used to be one for many years.  No one expects you to fawn over TSL or pontificate yourself to the development team... objective criticism is a necessary and welcome part of this community. 

But let me ask you something... why do you want to be a part of a game community for a game that you hate?  Me personally, I'm not a big fan of the Modern Warfare games.  Since I don't care for those games, would it make much sense for me to hang out on community forums dedicated to Modern Warfare making my distaste known?  My distaste for the games would be met with grudging approval at best or downright hostility at worst.  Furthermore, my distaste of the games would ostracize me from the Modern Warfare community, making me an outsider.  I wouldn't gain anything by trying to be a member of that community... so I don't bother.  Different strokes for different folks.

I don't accept your apology because, as far as I can tell, your still fighting the good fight that you have always fought.  Your presence here in this community is met with grudging approval due to the open nature of our community.  If you truly are interested in putting a stop to the fight, then I would suggest that you simply don't visit this community anymore.  You have demonstrated many times that you are intolerant of other peoples viewpoints and are incapable of contributing to the community (either by being helpful, providing support to the development team, or even providing constructive criticism in the many discussions that take place here) .  You are the proverbial leper, tolerated and sometimes pitied, but never accepted.  And, to be honest, you have no one to blame but yourself. 

[Baggins]

And this is why you are not a member of the community here.  In your own words, you state your not a TSL fan and haven't been one for years...

Just saying...

I don't know I'm not really a 'fan' of TSL (sometimes more of a critic), but I do feel like I'm part of the community!...

I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive!

I'm here more because I'm a fan of Sierra or KQ in general (like many other members here), and I like discussing various aspects of KQ both official and fan made. Although I may not necessarily like aspects from fan made games (or even some of the official games even)! It's also interesting to discuss non-King's Quest topics as well...

However, I respect that others will have differing opinions about different topics!

On a side note, yes he has some anti-social behaviour he needs to work on... like calling people crazy 'right-wingers', 'tea partiers" or 'fascists', or whatever, LOL!

[KatieHal]

Perceval,

We appreciate the gesture and apology, and I'm glad to hear that you don't plan to "crusade" against our game in the future. We've always maintained that everyone is welcome to express their opinions here so long as they do so respectfully, and asked that criticisms be given in a constructive way so that we can improve our games with that feedback.

As for feeling a part of the community, as some have said, that will always be challenging when this is a forum for a game that you have a strong dislike for. But that aside, being a part of the community is up to you and up to the other members of this community. It really comes down to the golden rule--treat others as you would like to be treated. The best way to be respected and welcomed, is to in turn be respectful and welcoming.

Thank you for good wishes, and the same to you.

[snabbott]

For a long time, I was vehemently outspoken against this game; I was indeed almost a foe of it in some ways.

Almost?? 

Anyway, like I said, it's just a fan game

That's what we've been saying all along!

I've learned that I can disagree without being disagreeable

Congratulations! That's a difficult thing to do.

all of us here are fans of the KQ series and most of us I would assume also love many of Sierra's other products as well.

To be honest, I don't really feel like I'm a part of the community here, and I'd like that to change.

I've noticed you've been a lot less combative lately. That's a big step in the right direction.

[dark-daventry]

Allow to me to add my two cents; I can understand where this apology is coming from. Some years ago, I, too, posted a public apology here on the forums for some conduct that with hindsight was foolish and rather unprofessional. I've been through a great deal on these forums. I've made some fantastic friends (Haids, Deloria, Enchantermon, etc; I love you all, forever), but I've gone through some particular rough patches as well. I will not elaborate on what these rough patches are; those that have been around will know to what I am referring to. Despite everything that's happened to me, I continually return. I cannot turn away from this community. I started out as a fan many, many years ago. One day, I officially joined the team. I joined not because of TSL, but because of Phoenix. I have only the greatest of things to say about this company. We're reviving a once mighty franchise; we brought hope back to a community that was wavering. Without TSL, the flame of the KQ community could very well have died out years ago. Regardless of what your personal opinions of this game are, the fact remains that we achieved something very few in the video games industry have done. We are the underdog story of this industry. A group of fans from myriad backgrounds and countries have banded together to bring back an important piece of our past. We've put our differences aside and have become a force to reckoned with.

To become a bigger part of this community, you must put forth the effort. I am ready and willing to accept you back, but an effort must be made, and I cannot say that everyone would welcome you back with open arms. I am a forgiving person and try to see the best in people. I believe time does heal all wounds. Someday, if you truly, truly wish it, you can become a bigger part of this community. But it is something you must truly want.

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

To be honest, I don't really feel like I'm a part of the community here, and I'd like that to change.

If you want to be a member of this community, you need to try to be a member of the community.

I will reinterate that, however, I'm not a TSL fan, and haven't been for a while--though I was for many years.

And this is why you are not a member of the community here.  In your own words, you state your not a TSL fan and haven't been one for years... though you used to be one for many years.  No one expects you to fawn over TSL or pontificate yourself to the development team... objective criticism is a necessary and welcome part of this community.  

But let me ask you something... why do you want to be a part of a game community for a game that you hate?  Me personally, I'm not a big fan of the Modern Warfare games.  Since I don't care for those games, would it make much sense for me to hang out on community forums dedicated to Modern Warfare making my distaste known?  My distaste for the games would be met with grudging approval at best or downright hostility at worst.  Furthermore, my distaste of the games would ostracize me from the Modern Warfare community, making me an outsider.  I wouldn't gain anything by trying to be a member of that community... so I don't bother.  Different strokes for different folks.

I don't accept your apology because, as far as I can tell, your still fighting the good fight that you have always fought.  Your presence here in this community is met with grudging approval due to the open nature of our community.  If you truly are interested in putting a stop to the fight, then I would suggest that you simply don't visit this community anymore.  You have demonstrated many times that you are intolerant of other peoples viewpoints and are incapable of contributing to the community (either by being helpful, providing support to the development team, or even providing constructive criticism in the many discussions that take place here) .  You are the proverbial leper, tolerated and sometimes pitied, but never accepted.  And, to be honest, you have no one to blame but yourself.  

Well, I come here because everyone or at least most people here like King's Quest; That's a very big common tie right there. We also have some other interests in common; some are fantasy fans, some are general Sierra fans. And most of the people here--TSL fans or not--are genuinely nice people with fun personalities. I've been coming to this forum for 8 years now, since I was 12 years old, so....It's not like I was some guy who joined and just began hating on the game for the last eight years. I was a big time TSL fanboy at one time and even wanted a position on the team at one point. I simply disagreed with the direction but took it to an extreme because of how much KQ means to me--Especially when I had heard the whole idea of POS buying the IP, which would mean the dark direction would likely continue in future games, indefinitely. I took it way too personally and feel stupid about it in retrospect, and that's why I apologized.

As you say, my presence here is begrudgingly tolerated; I didn't need to apologize. No one told me, "either say sorry or leave." I decided on my own accord because it was something I felt needed to be cleared up and something I felt bad about. I'm not the only person here who comes due to a common love of KQ only; Others here aren't necessarily fans of TSL itself but of the universe it's based on. And I have changed. I think that can be seen when I asked Lambonious not to revive the old arguments, when he made a little sarcastic comment about the game. In the past I might've laughed along with it.

As to other people's viewpoints,  I am tolerant of others' views or else I wouldn't visit here or anywhere else on the internet. The entire internet is one steaming stew of millions of viewpoints. I simply at times become overly passionate with my own viewpoint.

As to being the "proverbial leper"....I do not want yours or anyone else's pity. I'm not some poor, hobbled little person. I didn't make this begging for forgiveness, lying and renouncing what I believe in simply to gain yours and everyone's undying love.To go so far as to compare me to a leper is really horrid and extreme, and I'd hope for any real leper's sake that you never met them.  I'd be tolerant of lepers, and not simply pity them.

[Baggins]

Leprousy, actually Hansen's disease is quite curable btw. The term 'leper' is actually an insult. It is not considered polite to call someone with Hansen's disease a 'leper'!

But who cares about political correctness!

[MusicallyInspired]

Never a dull moment at the POS boards!

[Fierce Deity]

How would one become a "part of the community"? I always considered it a state of mind. If you are here posting, and discussing topics with other members of the forums, aren't you within the community itself, or are you the equivalent of a man throwing rocks outside of the community? I've had up and down opinions on the project ever since it was announced, but I never considered myself to be a fanboy or a troll. I'm basing my opinions on the evidence. I can play Episode 1 and say that it was lacking in gameplay, because it was lacking in comparison to the other episodes. It doesn't mean I'm going to start a crusade, or necessarily partition a favoritism towards games with little gameplay, I'm just pointing out something that is blatantly opposed in some respects.

Anyway, I don't feel like being a "part of the community" is something that can be decided by the community itself. It's not an exclusive club. Phoenix is providing a game to the masses, whoever is interested can be a part of the community, regardless if they are positively or negatively affected by the game's quality.

Also, why would you apologize for stating your opinion? You clearly had something to say about how the game made you feel. Because you were not in the majority of fans, doesn't mean your opinion was wrong, you just didn't have the same experience. Now, if you feel like you have changed your mind, you can simply say so. You don't have to say that you're sorry because you've had a change of heart. Opinions change constantly. Once again, it doesn't mean you were wrong. If you ever made a personal attack on any one individual, I can see why you would want to apologize, but having an opinion is not something to feel sorry for (even if you no longer think the way that you did).

[snabbott]

The apology wasn't for stating his opinion - it was the manner in which he expressed it.

[Fierce Deity]

The apology wasn't for stating his opinion - it was the manner in which he expressed it.

I realize that, but his post is more about making personal attacks against the team and the TSL-fans. I can see why he would want to apologize to them, but his opinion was coincided with the apology. So it was hard to discern whether he was sorry for his opinion as well. You can dislike the game and get along with everybody too. I still think he has melded with the community pretty well, despite what may have happened in the past. I feel like an apology would be like beating a dead horse, or digging up old bones. It's something he felt needed to be resolved, but I'm an example of someone who forgot.

[snabbott]

I think if you've offended someone (even if it was a while ago), it's a good thing to apologize. Also, I think there are probably some who are not so quick to forget (as evidenced by some of the responses to the apology). Of course, an apology doesn't mean much without a change in behavior, but I think he's made a good start in that direction.

[Fierce Deity]

I think if you've offended someone (even if it was a while ago), it's a good thing to apologize. Also, I think there are probably some who are not so quick to forget (as evidenced by some of the responses to the apology). Of course, an apology doesn't mean much without a change in behavior, but I think he's made a good start in that direction.

To make things clear, I support him apologizing to the people he offended. I just don't think he should feel obligated to change his opinion of the game to do so. If he doesn't like something, that's his right.

Also, when I said an apology is like beating a dead horse, I didn't mean for it to sound as negative as it did. I just realized after reading it that it was pretty mean. I just think that an apology might bring back bad memories that are left unmentioned. 

[oberonqa]

I think if you've offended someone (even if it was a while ago), it's a good thing to apologize. Also, I think there are probably some who are not so quick to forget (as evidenced by some of the responses to the apology). Of course, an apology doesn't mean much without a change in behavior, but I think he's made a good start in that direction.

To make things clear, I support him apologizing to the people he offended. I just don't think he should feel obligated to change his opinion of the game to do so. If he doesn't like something, that's his right.

Also, when I said an apology is like beating a dead horse, I didn't mean for it to sound as negative as it did. I just realized after reading it that it was pretty mean. I just think that an apology might bring back bad memories that are left unmentioned. 

Everyone should be able to express their opinions without fear of reprisal.  That is part of the fun of being a part of a community.  However, when you use your opinion as a blunt object to beat others up because they don't have the same opinion, that I have a problem with.

As for what defines a person as part of a community, I briefly touched on it in my original post, but allow me to elaborate on that.  There are two types of membership in a forum community, as far as I am concerned:

1)  Individuals that not only express their points of view, but become valued members of the community for which he/she is taking part, either by providing objective and constructive criticism/feedback in a discussion, providing support for the community (in other words, answering questions, welcoming new members, sharing knowledge/wisdom, etc), and generally being a likeable person (we all have our good days and bad days, but there should be a defined curve where you have more good days than bad days)

2)  Individuals that express their points of view and are not respectful of the community.  Such individuals do nothing to contribute to the community as a whole and generally cause more harm than good (be it through bullish behavior, inflammatory comments, disrespecting others, etc).  These individuals are often referred to as "forum trolls".

I think it's obvious what category I think Percival falls under.  If Percival is truly apologetic, then he will change and said change will not be illustrated by mere words, but of action.  Actions speak louder than words and at this point, I can't say that this apology is anything more than empty words, hence why I rejected said apology.  Let his actions speak for him and if those actions tell of a person who has changed and no longer displays the traits of a common forum troll, then I will be the first to welcome him as a valued member of this community. 

Let me be clear when I say that no one should be afraid to speak their opinions.  However, having an opinion does not give you or anyone else the right to be a forum troll and such behavior should not be tolerated... ever.

[Fierce Deity]

Everyone should be able to express their opinions without fear of reprisal.  That is part of the fun of being a part of a community.  However, when you use your opinion as a blunt object to beat others up because they don't have the same opinion, that I have a problem with.

As for what defines a person as part of a community, I briefly touched on it in my original post, but allow me to elaborate on that.  There are two types of membership in a forum community, as far as I am concerned:

1)  Individuals that not only express their points of view, but become valued members of the community for which he/she is taking part, either by providing objective and constructive criticism/feedback in a discussion, providing support for the community (in other words, answering questions, welcoming new members, sharing knowledge/wisdom, etc), and generally being a likeable person (we all have our good days and bad days, but there should be a defined curve where you have more good days than bad days)

2)  Individuals that express their points of view and are not respectful of the community.  Such individuals do nothing to contribute to the community as a whole and generally cause more harm than good (be it through bullish behavior, inflammatory comments, disrespecting others, etc).  These individuals are often referred to as "forum trolls".

I think it's obvious what category I think Percival falls under.  If Percival is truly apologetic, then he will change and said change will not be illustrated by mere words, but of action.  Actions speak louder than words and at this point, I can't say that this apology is anything more than empty words, hence why I rejected said apology.  Let his actions speak for him and if those actions tell of a person who has changed and no longer displays the traits of a common forum troll, then I will be the first to welcome him as a valued member of this community. 

Let me be clear when I say that no one should be afraid to speak their opinions.  However, having an opinion does not give you or anyone else the right to be a forum troll and such behavior should not be tolerated... ever.

I see the distinguished categories, but I also think there are shades of grey. Like if a common forum troll learns to adapt to the community and take part in events, then they have jumped the gap. But what would stop this person from having the same feelings and opinions towards the same topics. He could be more jolly about it, but the criticism itself wouldn't change. Also, he could just as easily jump back towards being an angry troll. And for clarification, I'm not talking about Perceval. This is an assessment of how I see people in general. We all have our own personal lives, and as Perceval had pointed out, things change in our lives.

Now, what we portray ourselves to be over the internet is fairly limited, but I still find it unfair to categorize people. That's why I'd rather straddle the lines between troll and fanboy myself. I understand the difference between a forum troll and a forum member, but if you guys had to pick only one of the two categories for me, what would it be? I post from time to time, and am willing to have discussions on baseless topics, but I also try not to get in the way of anybody else. I would personally consider myself neither of them.

So for Perceval to apologize, would be a step in the right direction, but you feel actions speak louder than words. I will use two other examples. Lambonius was pretty vocal about how he felt about the project, for whatever his periodical sarcasm was worth. He however posts from time to time in the same manner that I myself would. He seems to remain somewhat tame over his criticism however. Then, there was ReturnofDMD. He was relentless and couldn't stop talking smack. Even though he was probably fully aware that everybody had acknowledged his slander (unless he suffers from a short-term memory loss disorder), he continued to bash the game, the team, and the project. It wasn't long till he bit off more than he could chew, and then was banned indefinitely (at least from the looks of things). I consider DMD and Lambonius to be on two different levels, but I'm still not going to throw Lambonius in with the group that DMD was in, because Lambonius has self-control. 

[Damar]

And now to add an old school M. Night Shyamalan twist...they're actually the same person!  Perceval and DMD, rather.  Not Lambonius and any of those guys.  At least not that I know of!

I wasn't really going to comment, since it's an apology and that's it.  But since there's a discussion, and I'm bored, why not?  The apology is fine, but ultimately it all comes down to what the history was here.  Fierce Deity and I and no doubt others may not particularly feel an apology is necessary so we just shrug it off.  After all, the attacks may have been over the top, but I know I just kind of rolled my eyes and moved on.  I'm not going to get in an argument whether it was creepy for Rosella and Alexander to hold hands because, well, it doesn't matter and it's clearly just someone not liking the game and finding every little thing to hold up and say, "See!  See!"  There are legitimate constructive criticisms to bring up and discuss.  The little stuff just undermines the argument and makes it seem like a personal crusade.  So the average member probably just paid it no mind.

But then you have the staff who have had this baby in labor for, what?  Ten years now?  So an apology that seems unnecessary to Fierce Deity or me is going to seem like too little too late to the staff that's put up with someone calling their baby ugly in every conceivable way.  And that's not just POS staff being oversensitive.  It's completely natural and it happens everywhere.  A little while ago when I checked out IA to see the latest news on SQ2, I found myself reading and enjoying the saga of assjack, the guy who kept e-mailing Blackthorne.  That guy was insulting to the entire effort of the team and he was mocked accordingly.  So it makes sense that a lot of the staff is going to take the apology with a grain of salt and just see what happens next.

So that said, it's nice to see some awareness that an apology brings.  You went through your awkward teenage years on these forums and now you're basically apologizing for that.  I know I did plenty of stuff in my teenage years I'd apologize for, if I'd done it in public.  I think most of the community is just having fun checking in and talking King's Quest in those new review topics you've been posting, Perceval.  The other members are just watching to make sure the actions match the apology.  But whichever group a member falls into, what matters are the actions.  Just be chill, I guess is what I'm saying.  It's just a game.  We should really just relax.