LSL and Phantasmagoria: sex in adventure games in bad taste or good idea?

[Baggins]

How do you feel about the Leisure Suit Larry series, and or the sex/rape in Phantasmagoria series?

What do you feel about modern sex scenes or nudity in games such as God of War series?

Please don't post any screenshots from these games as examples...

Back in 1996 several individuals at Sierra including Bob and Jan Davidson felt that the violence and sex in Sierra games such as Phantasmagoria and Leisure Suit Larry was too much... They felt that Ken and Roberta were out to corrupt the world's youth through Sierra's video games.

At the same time Phantasmagoria received much criticism from various religious groups and the media for its depiction of sex, rape, and violence..

One account goes that a reporter came to Roberta to ask her about her thoughts and why she put violence and sex into the video games. He wondered if she knew it would have an influence on the youth. Roberta said first the game was designed for adults, secondly, the game had parent controls allowing dutiful parents to remove the violence and sex from the game, if they were playing it around children. The reporter seeing he wouldn't get Roberta to say anything controversial got up, stopped the interview and walked off in a huff.

Where the Davidsons and the Media right? Or were they being too prudish?

[KatieHal]

It all depends on the context, really. With these two games, sex has a place--it has long been a part of horror movies, which Phantasmagoria was emulating, and LSL is a game entirely about hooking up with people.

I'm not going to get into rape in any context, that's a VERY different topic and one that can easily end badly. If others are going to touch on that, please do so carefully and respectfully.

And yes, please bear in mind this is a family-friendly forum while having this discussion overall.

[Baggins]

Al Lowe has had problems with the censors over the years, for example the LSL7 was left out of the Vivendi collection due to a certain easter egg discoverable if you find every Dildo in the game.

A marketing person from VU Games told me that they did not include LSL7 because of a 5-second-long Easter egg that we included as a "reward" in case anyone scored all 1,000 points and found all 32 collectibles. Even though I told him it was easy to prevent it from ever appearing and even told him how to fix it, they were afraid that the ESRB would somehow find out that it was still in the compiled game files and give the entire collection an AO rating. (Or whatever rating the ESRB gives for 5 seconds of cartoon nudity seen by less than 0.001% of the people who play the game!). <sigh>

[Blackthorne]

If it's appropriate for the game, sure.  If it's just thrown in for no good reason, no.

People need to stop being so uptight about sex.  You can have all the violence you want, but two people getting it on is verboten?  I don't get why you can show someone killing something or someone, but God forbid you show two people making the beast with two backs.  I've had lots of sex and I've never killed anyone.   So far, I haven't broken any laws.


Bt

[Lambonius]

Sex = teh awsoem!1!! 

[Cez]

yeah, I tend to be in the same camp. I don't understand why violence is ok but sex isn't. For the most part, you don't hurt anyone with sex.

As for it being included in games, like BT said, it depends on if it's needed or not. I also dislike it when it's distasteful: For example, even when in both Larry and God of War women you happen to come across hot babes to have sex with, I find that Larry is a bit more respectful towards women than God of War is.

I found the rape scene in Phantasmagoria to be extremely powerful. It made me feel awful about Adrienne and about her marriage, which we had seen them so happy, so recently. That scene in the game was the first scene that really had me sweating in agony, and from that point it was a rollercoaster that did not stop. I did not find the scene to be shock value at all, I think it was a very smart way to state how serious the situation really was.

I found the sex in Phantasmagoria 2 fun and perfectly adequate. Heavy Rain's sex was also adequate for the story. So, in general, it's about what the story requires.

[Baggins]

I think a game that is nothign but sex would be kinda boring... The real thing is better... Why would you want a simulation? I suppose if you prefer digital sex, there is Second Life...

As a scene or mini-game? Well its not really what the entire game is about right? LSL has the whole purpose of trying to find girls to have sex with, but the sex itself isn't really the main part of the game.

Violent killing games are fun... There is alot more action to be had, it fits into arcade mold alot more. I also don't hurt people by playing Call of Duty!

[Deloria]

I think off-screen implied sex can work really well, like the way it was done in Freddy Pharkas. The sex in LSL games is usually so comical that I can't imagine it would offend anyone, but then it also doesn't seem to have much of a point, whereas the rape scene is Phantasmagoria is actually intended to be moving and propel the plot forward. I haven't played it, so I don't know how effective it is or how well it works. I suppose it could theoretically work quite well, but the execution would often be poor. I think there was also a KQ fangame that had Valanice and Graham having sex on-screen, followed by a childbirth scene. That just seemed awkward and wrong and very, very weird. 

[Blackthorne]

Hahah, yeah, Deloria, that Graham and Valanice Sex Scene was just.....odd.  In hindsight, it's funny, but I think it's author at the time didn't intend it!

The rape scene in Phantasmagoria is always a point of contention - it was important to developing an emotional bond with Adrienne.... and it didn't glorify the act at all - it pointed out the horror of it all.... 

I do agree God of War is gratuitous, but you're always going to have someone exploiting things.  They just want the drooling nerdy-I'll never get it-fanboys money.  So there ya go.


Bt

[Baggins]

. I think there was also a KQ fangame that had Valanice and Graham having sex on-screen, followed by a childbirth scene. That just seemed awkward and wrong and very, very weird.

Hahah, yeah, Deloria, that Graham and Valanice Sex Scene was just.....odd.  In hindsight, it's funny, but I think it's author at the time didn't intend it!

It was a kiss (with clothes on), not actually 'sex'.

Directly after Graham helps her with childbirth (he pulls the babies from her).

I'm serious, go back and watch it... I'm generally kind of a prude when it comes to some games (I'm really not a fan of LSL series), and the fan game scene is non-offensive.

Rough and dirty 'sex' scene...
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Deloria if that is awkward to you, then I'm a dirty pervert! KQ2 had a dirty sex scene too! Keep your children from KQ6!

Seriously its no Hot Coffee mod...!

Actually personally not bothered by the rape scene in Phantas. It's used effectively for the plot. The main reason I'm not a big fan of LSL games, is I'm not particuarly into intentionally softporn/pornographic material, a story of infidelity, or womanizing doesn't particuarlly interest me.

[glottal]

I'm with the chorus here - it depends on the game.  Sex works very well with the right execution in the right kind of game.  But the same could be said about anything - puns, for example, also work very well with the right execution in the right kind of game

[Deloria]

It's been years since I played this. I must have misremembered the really weird childbirth scene as a sex scene. I just remember Valanice stripping, so I assumed it had to have been a sex scene.

Oh, and for future reference

Keep your children from KQ6!

Make sure your target *won't* need a hysterectomy before you say something like this.

[Baggins]

I apologize if I offended you...

However, I know nothing about you (which is exactly why I would never intend to offend you), and I was using a very common joke theme (you will also see it was also partially directed at Blackthorn as well, though I did focus on your name in that paragraph)! As it was a joke, and part of a punchline, its not meant to offend anyone in general (in theory not everyone necessarily has children, or may instead have adopted children)... The joke does not specify on biological or adopted children (who are children just as much)...

BTW, I do have relatives who are adopted, and I choose not take offense (though I do find it somewhat offending) at your comment that could imply that they are somehow, 'not related' or somehow not the 'children' of the parent's who adopted them...

There is no way you could have known that there are children who have been adopted and are relatives of mine, now is there? So there is no reason for you to apologize, so please don't.

Secondly I despise political correctness in communication (because frankly anything said in the world is going to offend someone), and I try not to be a victim when I find something that offends me... That being said if I had known, I probably wouldn't have said that joke to you in the first place... Because I try not to offend others.

Again I do apologize for offending you, and in the future will try to avoid talking about children around you...

[Blackthorne]

This is a doubly-funny faux-pas, because the years of dialysis may have rendered me with an inabiity to sire children as well!


Bt

[Baggins]

Hah, but you can still adopt, if you feel like it... So don't think that someone's 'children' necessarily have to be biological... One of my dear cousins is adopted!

I'm sorry, but at this point, I think people just need to grow a thicker skin! If you found my above joke insulting, you read too much into it...

[Blackthorne]

Well, I didn't personally.  I knew it was a joke, and I'm not an overly sensitive type.


Bt

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

This is a doubly-funny faux-pas, because the years of dialysis may have rendered me with an inabiity to sire children as well!


Bt

Sorry to hear that BT...But it's better than the alternative I guess. I mean on the bright side, in a way, all those years paid off because you're alive and healthy--much better than being ailing or worse, dead. So while I hope what you say doesn't turn out to be so, it is better than death.

[Blackthorne]

This is a doubly-funny faux-pas, because the years of dialysis may have rendered me with an inabiity to sire children as well!


Bt

Sorry to hear that BT...But it's better than the alternative I guess. I mean on the bright side, in a way, all those years paid off because you're alive and healthy--much better than being ailing or worse, dead. So while I hope what you say doesn't turn out to be so, it is better than death.

Most definitely.  I came to terms with it long ago, but my wife has a much harder time with it.  Who knows, though.  Time will tell.  Many people post-transplant regain the ability, so we'll see.  If I knock her up, then I'll know it worked, right???


Bt

[Baggins]

Well, there is always surrogate... Or if they can always try to obtain semen from you (painful precedure though), and fertilize an egg in a test tube (more than one way to go biological)... Some people find success with fertility drugs, but be careful with that (having half a litter of babies may not necessarily be optimal for your family planning)...

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

This is a doubly-funny faux-pas, because the years of dialysis may have rendered me with an inabiity to sire children as well!


Bt

Sorry to hear that BT...But it's better than the alternative I guess. I mean on the bright side, in a way, all those years paid off because you're alive and healthy--much better than being ailing or worse, dead. So while I hope what you say doesn't turn out to be so, it is better than death.

Most definitely.  I came to terms with it long ago, but my wife has a much harder time with it.  Who knows, though.  Time will tell.  Many people post-transplant regain the ability, so we'll see.  If I knock her up, then I'll know it worked, right???


Bt

Yup. And there are all the options Baggins presented. Not only that, but you have your wife--Love can sometimes be enough, without children. My mother always says that in retrospect she should've just had dogs lol.