KQ2:Romancing the Stones--Did it change too much?

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

Figured this thread would be interesting for Baggins, Katie and other fans to discuss in. I personally like the game a lot I just don't agree with tying all of the games together via a prophecy. I am very big on each game standing alone for the most part, with only minor ties to each other--Which is how the series is. I also don't like how some character's entire personalities are changed or given unnedeed depth.

For example, in the original KQ2, the lady in the antique's shop is simply a kindly lady who wants her pet back, which has been stolen by an evil witch. That's simple, very fairy tale-esque and provides a lovely subplot for Graham and continues the trend of "Graham helps person in need = Graham gets helped without knowing it or seeking it."

In RTS, she's a demented woman who wants to join a Satanic society and who doesn't want the nightinggale back for simple reasons, but for a youth potion which she doesn't even need since she's young in appearance anyway. She kills the nightinggale--very dark--Basically Graham unwittingly sends an innocent bird to a horrible death--and then is herself killed.

Or the Priest. In KQ2: RTT, he's a simple, pious Monk, who aids Graham by giving him a cross and blesses him. Graham can even kneel and join the humble Monk in prayer, and if you attempt to kill the Monk, the game kills you. It's also heavily implied that the Monk is a Christian monk and Graham and Valanice are wedded in his monastery.

In RTS, he's not pious or humble or even good; He's an evil, bloodthirsty werewolf who Graham has to kill with a sword ala KQ8. He's not even a Christian (Christianity is removed and instead just becomes a nameless religion).

Or Dracula...Another character 180.

I like the game for what it is, and it does in large measure keep the tone and spirit and heart of KQ alive; It's also very well written. I just don't like how it alters the original game's characters. You can add to a game or add backstory without flipping things on their heads.

[Baggins]

Personally I think it changed too much... Characters were turned on their heads, completely modified... It tried to insert too much of a complicated backstory, that tried to tie all the KQ villains together in a tight clear package, tied to an ancient one thousand year prophecy... The same problem that TSL makes...

It's kinda too dark... the same problem I have with TSL... Both are filled with sappy teen style drama...

I find TSL and AGDI's trilogy are birds of a feather...

example, in the original KQ2, the lady in the antique's shop is simply a kindly lady who wants her pet back, which has been stolen by an evil witch. That's simple, very fairy tale-esque and provides a lovely subplot for Graham and continues the trend of "Graham helps person in need = Graham gets helped without knowing it or seeking it."

Well, she's not exactly entirely kindly in KQ2... She gets positively grumpy if you offer her anything she doesn't want!

"That won't do!", the little old lady snaps."

She becomes dismayed if you try to offer the empty bird cage.

Where's my little bird! I don't want an empty cage!

But in general she is vary gracious, infact very thankful when you return her pet, before sending you out of her shop.

"This is a new item in my shop, I thought you might be interested in it.", "The oil lamp is expensive, it will cost you two treasures. There is an alternative, though, the old hag, Hagatha, stole my precious nightengale. If you can return it to me, then I will give you the oil lamp."

"My precious. Good luck... In gratitude she gives you the oil lamp."

(Posted on: September 09, 2011, 01:33:42 PM)

In RTS, he's not pious or humble or even good; He's an evil, bloodthirsty werewolf who Graham has to kill with a sword ala KQ8. He's not even a Christian (Christianity is removed and instead just becomes a nameless religion).

Minor correction, you kill him with a poison dart... you can kill some of his minions with a sword, or use wolfsbane to avoid them.

Also its very much implied to be Christian. He mentions "God", and he also talks about "Heaven". There is also a "Bible" in the church. Crosses and crucifixes are still very much a part of the old monastery itself. However you find that the church might have been Christian at one time, they are now worshping the "Spirit of the Wild" or some such forest spirits.

Yes, he is very different character...

I prefer the version in the original...

[MusicallyInspired]

I loved RTS's story. Loved it. But it's not canon so nobody has to take it too seriously. It's a great story. I like complexity and a certain amount of convolution. I also like all the fan service, as opposed to most of my other IA brethren, but I also am glad that it isn't canon. It's just a great fangame that was extremely well-written and very well designed and balanced. The puzzles are great, the dialogue is great, the artwork is great, the soundtrack is GREAT.

It's fantastic. You could say that it changed too much but in the end it doesn't really matter because it's a fangame. I appreciate all the changes seeing as the original really didn't have much going for it at all.

[Baggins]

I'd prefer to see a remake stayed closer to the KQ2 than it took... Like KQ1SCI took the original KQ1...

Would have been interesting to see what direction Sierra would have done with KQ2 remake, but it was cancelled... and will never happen.

[Lambonius]

I really enjoyed KQ2+.

However, I'm certainly one of the "IA brethren" to whom MI refers as generally disliking overt fan service in games. 

I just can't play games like KQ2+ and TSL (especially TSL, where the writing is SO much sappier) and not think of the writers feverishly[spoiler] wanking to a Word document full of their own prose.[/spoiler]

So to speak, that is.   

[MusicallyInspired]

I do have a line. TSL crosses it in a big way (for me personally! Still a monumental achievement). But not because of over-convolution, just the style and tone of writing. It's mega serious and mega sappy, as Lamb said. KQ2+, while somewhat moody, still has the right amount of whimsy at the same time.

[KatieHal]

Thank you, MI.

I really liked KQ2+. Yes, it vastly changed the story, but I loved what they did with it. The canon KQ2 story is very straightforward. They added great twists, turned things totally around from what you would have expected after playing the original, and just overall did a wonderful job. Huge kudos and thumbs up to AGDI on this one!

[Lambonius]

I mainly enjoyed KQ2+ because it felt like a brand new KQ game, which at the time, I was desperate to play in any way shape or form.  As an "update" of KQ2, it's certainly not the way I would have approached it.  As MI said, the tone and style of the writing (with the exception of the cheesy high-fantasy nerdgasm backstory with all those cliche anagram names) is more in keeping with the official KQ games.

By the time TSL started to come out, I had been involved in the actual MAKING of these games for a few years, and as such, the sheer sense of release at finally playing a new KQ game was just not there for me anymore.  Which of course made the game's flaws stand out to me all the more.

In all seriousness, I do respect the effort and accomplishment of TSL, even if parts of its design disagree with my adventure game palate. 

[MusicallyInspired]

All in all KQ2+ is a very nice and well-done 'alternate' experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Lambonius]

All in all KQ2+ is a very nice and well-done 'alternate' experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

Agreed. 

[writerlove]

I loved RTS's story. Loved it. But it's not canon so nobody has to take it too seriously. It's a great story. I like complexity and a certain amount of convolution. I also like all the fan service, as opposed to most of my other IA brethren, but I also am glad that it isn't canon. It's just a great fangame that was extremely well-written and very well designed and balanced. The puzzles are great, the dialogue is great, the artwork is great, the soundtrack is GREAT.

It's fantastic. You could say that it changed too much but in the end it doesn't really matter because it's a fangame. I appreciate all the changes seeing as the original really didn't have much going for it at all.

^^ What they said.

[Cez]

In all seriousness, I do respect the effort and accomplishment of TSL, even if parts of its design disagree with my adventure game palate.  

Thanks, Lamb. That really does mean a lot, coming from you. It's hard to know whether you love to bash TSL because it's become sort of a sport for you, or whether that's just who you are. But this is nice, and we don't get nice often from you

I think your first post ever here was before the involvement in the games and it shows an over excited TSL fan. Whatever happened to that lovely Lamb? lol

[Blackthorne]

KQ2 + is a great game!  I love playing it, but I totally consider it an "alternate" universe game, ya know?  I don't like all the convoluted history thrust into Daventry, but hey some dig it.  Some don't.  It's still, just as itself a great game.


Bt

[Fierce Deity]

KQ2+ for me was not supposed to be anything less than a reimagining. Therefore, I don't think it's so close to the series that I can judge whether "too much" can even be decided. Cause then I'd be saying they added "too much" to their own game. The same could be said for TSL. Especially after renaming it from King's Quest IX, TSL isn't supposed to be the title that Roberta was going to release next. It's fan fiction, and with fan fiction, comes a diverse writing style. That's why I feel like Phoenix, AGDI, and Infamous Adventures are appealing to fans with fan service, rather than trying to remake a series that has already been made. I feel like fan service can open up a new world for the fans.

Aside from my pleasant experience with KQ2+, I did feel like the one thing that I wanted to explore was the origin of Legenimor and Morgeilen. A lot of what was explained was in text, which is fine, but I'd like to see more on the subject and not just vague statements about "Items". The "Father" story is an interesting one, but the story almost feels like it's hovering over the original King's Quest story and isn't really integrating itself with the KQ story. So I guess in my opinion, they didn't add enough.

[MusicallyInspired]

IIRC, there were plans to create a King's Quest game centred solely around and concluding the Father storyline. But the chances of that happening now are anyone's guess.

[Lambonius]

IIRC, there were plans to create a King's Quest game centred solely around and concluding the Father storyline. But the chances of that happening now are anyone's guess.

I gotta say, I absolutely hate when movie or game studios do this.  You know, come up with a complex story that they can't possibly conclude in the first film/game, get people into it, and then just expect that they will get the chance to finish it up in sequels, which may or may not ever come out.  I can't help but find it incredibly arrogant--like they just expected it to be a hit, and that the sequel would automatically be green-lighted.  And with AGDI, it was even more silly, since they were making games based off someone else's IP.  What made them think they'd ever get the chance to do that original, funded KQ game?  I mean really?

[Baggins]

Ego?

[Lambonius]

Ego?

Haha...well, yes, that was my point. 

[Cez]

being naive?

We didn't know when we started what it took to make a game. Then, we eventually realized we weren't going to be able to pull it off, so we decided to break it in 3 parts. Then we realized we weren't going to be able to do so anyways.

So, ego may have something to do with it, but in our case, we were just naive, and then we didn't want to let our ideas go. Heck, this all happened when we were in our early 20s... everything was possible back then.

But hey, that's how Lord of the Rings got made, no? Sometimes, it works.

[Lambonius]

Oh, I was specifically referring to AGDI in that case, not TSL.  AGDI already had a game out by the time they were making KQ2+, and even after KQ2+ was finished and it became apparent they weren't going to be able to start any new remakes, they had every opportunity to rework KQ3+ to flesh out and bring closure to the story line.  (Not saying it would have been easy or quick, but it could have been done.)  But because of sheer ego, or whatever, they didn't.  They just assumed that they were going to be able to get the KQ license as Himalaya and make that last game.  Remember how pissed AGC2 was when Telltale got the license?  Remember that silly temper tantrum he threw for a few weeks?  All that "it should have been us...what a low blow from Telltale" talk?   That's what I mean.  They really should have known better.